ΔEITP is Now ITU-R BT.2124--Is the Industry Ready to Move on From ΔE2000? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 11 Old 08-12-2019, 01:57 AM - Thread Starter
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ΔEITP is Now ITU-R BT.2124--Is the Industry Ready to Move on From ΔE2000?

I am very, very interested in this subject. As I can't be present at this EVENT:


Is there any possibility that it will be streamed or, at least, that the various speeches will be transcribed on the SMPTE website? Are the event and/or speakers confirmed? Because Miss Meininger deleted from her Facebook profile any reference to her work experience at Portrait Displays. She's no longer working for CalMAN? If so, it's really a pity. I was excited about her hiring, she looks like a person who knows profoundly color science.

When she got the job (July 2018):


Now (August 2019):

TVs: Pioneer PDP-LX5090H, LG OLED55C8PLA | SintoAmp: Pioneer VSX-921 | BD Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT260EG | External LUT box: Entertainment Experience eeColor | Softwares: Light Illusion Lightspace HTP, Portrait Displays CalMAN Home Enthusiast 2018 R3, HCFR, DisplayCAL | Probes: x-rite i1 Pro 2 - i1 Display Pro OEM B-02, basICColor DISCUS | Test Pattern Generator: DVDO AVLab TPG

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post #2 of 11 Old 08-12-2019, 05:15 AM
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dEITP is not suitable as a replacement for dE2000.
They are aimed at very different applications when it comes to error reporting.
(No dE formula should be used when actually performing calibration.)

Steve

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post #3 of 11 Old 08-12-2019, 04:50 PM
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Yes, Catherine and myself will be presenting this technical paper at the 2019 SMPTE Conference in LA. They will be recording a video of the presentation and publishing it on YouTube sometime after the event.
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post #4 of 11 Old 08-12-2019, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
dEITP is not suitable as a replacement for dE2000.
They are aimed at very different applications when it comes to error reporting.
(No dE formula should be used when actually performing calibration.)

Steve
Can you please elaborate on that, Steve?

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post #5 of 11 Old 08-12-2019, 06:35 PM
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ΔEITP is Now ITU-R BT.2124--Is the Industry Ready to Move on From ΔE2000?



I can’t wait for everybody to read this paper.
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post #6 of 11 Old 08-12-2019, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool. Please, link the video in this thread when it will be available.

I created an Excel spreadsheet for dE2000 and dEITP to have a faster tool to compare the “ΔΙΑΦΟΡΑ* (Diafora)” between FCCM and TMC results. That’s why I’m sincerely interested.

*Greek word from where the Δ (Delta) symbol originates. It means “difference”.

Steve’s assertion is correct. A Delta formula is only used to determine the difference between 2+ points. Frankly, I don’t even know how it could be used to build a display profile or a LUT.

Miki
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post #7 of 11 Old 08-13-2019, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Steve’s assertion is correct. A Delta formula is only used to determine the difference between 2+ points. Frankly, I don’t even know how it could be used to build a display profile or a LUT.
As far as I know, some autocal mechanisms work by changing parameters and using the improvement in dE to judge whether or not to keep the change or carry on tweaking. I don't know about the inner workings of Calman, but I did have Chromapure and this appears to be how it generates 3DLUTs in the Lumagen advanced autocal it has; by changing single LUT values and checking the measurements. When you watch the log you can see it behave in this way. I was never very impressed with the LUTs coming out of the Chromapure process.
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post #8 of 11 Old 08-13-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Cool. Please, link the video in this thread when it will be available.

I created an Excel spreadsheet for dE2000 and dEITP to have a faster tool to compare the “ΔΙΑΦΟΡΑ* (Diafora)” between FCCM and TMC results. That’s why I’m sincerely interested.

*Greek word from where the Δ (Delta) symbol originates. It means “difference”.

Steve’s assertion is correct. A Delta formula is only used to determine the difference between 2+ points. Frankly, I don’t even know how it could be used to build a display profile or a LUT.

Miki
After switching my workflow from De2000 to DEITP I ended up creating a layout comparing the De2000 and DEITP values for the grayscale and color checker post-calibration readings. I found it interesting that the differences by reading are not uniform, though DEITP tended to be visibly higher.

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post #9 of 11 Old 08-13-2019, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the problem with dEITP, at least for me and my Excel spreadsheet, it is that it starts with a RGB to LMS conversion. So I have to convert my XYZ readings to RGB and that gives me frequently negative values and, therefore, errors.

TVs: Pioneer PDP-LX5090H, LG OLED55C8PLA | SintoAmp: Pioneer VSX-921 | BD Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT260EG | External LUT box: Entertainment Experience eeColor | Softwares: Light Illusion Lightspace HTP, Portrait Displays CalMAN Home Enthusiast 2018 R3, HCFR, DisplayCAL | Probes: x-rite i1 Pro 2 - i1 Display Pro OEM B-02, basICColor DISCUS | Test Pattern Generator: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #10 of 11 Old 08-13-2019, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Yes, the problem with dEITP, at least for me and my Excel spreadsheet, it is that it starts with a RGB to LMS conversion. So I have to convert my XYZ readings to RGB and that gives me frequently negative values and, therefore, errors.


The ITU document talks about negative values.

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post #11 of 11 Old 08-13-2019, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it says to “not clamp” them throughout the conversion to ITP. My problem is that excel returns “#NUM” with negative numbers. I will recheck the implementation of the formula and report back.

The document talks about negative numbers in Annex 4, paragraphs 3&4. Short story: if you want to analyze only colors within BT.2100 color volume, then negative numbers must be clamped to 0 and, I guess, numbers>1 to 1 (?). But, if you want to consider colors as they are actually measured, then negative numbers should not be clamped.

EDIT: Ok, the formula I used for XYZ-RGB conversion is different from the one suggested in the ITU-R BT.2124 document, probably it has the correct matrix for the BT. 2100 color space while I was using the Rec.709 inverse matrix. After I've implemented that, all is fine. Cheers.

TVs: Pioneer PDP-LX5090H, LG OLED55C8PLA | SintoAmp: Pioneer VSX-921 | BD Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT260EG | External LUT box: Entertainment Experience eeColor | Softwares: Light Illusion Lightspace HTP, Portrait Displays CalMAN Home Enthusiast 2018 R3, HCFR, DisplayCAL | Probes: x-rite i1 Pro 2 - i1 Display Pro OEM B-02, basICColor DISCUS | Test Pattern Generator: DVDO AVLab TPG

Last edited by Anger.miki; 08-14-2019 at 02:01 AM.
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