2020 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 63 Old 01-10-2020, 08:39 AM
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No 'Mastering' display uses tone mapping/roll-off...
So any application of it in any TV will always generated different image results.

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post #32 of 63 Old 01-10-2020, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
No 'Mastering' display uses tone mapping/roll-off...
So any application of it in any TV will always generated different image results.

Steve
Is this just a work around for the obvious limitation of consumer WRGB OLED?
If you leave the display set as default it runs out of colour luminance around the 350 peak white nits mark, but will display peak whites up to 750ish. So colour highlights above 350 nits equivalent will often have their saturation reduced, which would be very bad for any sort of critical viewing.

If you made the WRGB OLED roll off sharply or clip much earlier then you basically robbing yourself of the very high peak whites, but it means that the colour highlights and white highlights should stay in step (maybe?)
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post #33 of 63 Old 01-10-2020, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stama View Post
Haven't seen Tyler posting this interview with him:

- Tyler says that Hollywood studios use rolloff starting with 350 nits for HDR to better match the mastering display

- the iTPG is located now in front of the signal path, so that you can use it while the HDR PQ is applied to the signal

https://youtu.be/ta8v5arD-Jw


To clarify, we have found that to better match the BVM-X300 or newer LMCL 1000 nit HDR mastering displays, starting the 1000 nit metadata rolloff on the LG at 50% provides a better perceptual match to the HDR mastering display (default 1000 nit rolloff is at 70% of panel peak)

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post #34 of 63 Old 01-10-2020, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
To clarify, we have found that to better match the BVM-X300 or newer LMCL 1000 nit HDR mastering displays, starting the 1000 nit metadata rolloff on the LG at 50% provides a better perceptual match to the HDR mastering display (default 1000 nit rolloff is at 70% of panel peak)
Tyler,
Does the new feature in the LG2020 models that allow override of the HDMI allow for external tone mapping from the Lumagen for a SDR2020 source at a Gamma of 2.4 while still allowing peak luminance?

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post #35 of 63 Old 01-10-2020, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post
Tyler,
Does the new feature in the LG2020 models that allow override of the HDMI allow for external tone mapping from the Lumagen for a SDR2020 source at a Gamma of 2.4 while still allowing peak luminance?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk


I can find out.

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post #36 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 12:49 AM
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Waiting for the interview with Neil.
Was there an interview from Robert with Neil this year?

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post #37 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Waiting for the interview with Neil.
Was there an interview from Robert with Neil this year?
I spoke to Robert at the store yesterday and he was unable to do the interview like he did last year. But he did meet with Neil briefly and at a high level and it's confirmed that they took the A9G2 chipset and combined everything to new silicon A9G3 and with the added speed improved near black, motion, upscaling, etc, while adding new features like BFI the type we were supposed to get last year. Unfortunately no in-depth technical details. The good news is we should be seeing selected size retail models early this year so evaluation will be once we get to physically test and look at the sets.
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post #38 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Waiting for the interview with Neil.
Was there an interview from Robert with Neil this year?


He did do one interview with Phil Hinton:



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post #39 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I spoke to Robert at the store yesterday and he was unable to do the interview like he did last year. But he did meet with Neil briefly and at a high level and it's confirmed that they took the A9G2 chipset and combined everything to new silicon A9G3 and with the added speed improved near black, motion, upscaling, etc, while adding new features like BFI the type we were supposed to get last year. Unfortunately no in-depth technical details. The good news is we should be seeing selected size retail models early this year so evaluation will be once we get to physically test and look at the sets.


Do you keep AI Picture set to On in the showroom floor models?


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post #40 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Waiting for the interview with Neil.
Was there an interview from Robert with Neil this year?


He did do one interview with Phil Hinton:


Seen the video but hoped for a video like last year with a deep dive 😉

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post #41 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Seen the video but hoped for a video like last year with a deep dive 😉


Are there any specific questions you want answered?

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post #42 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Are there any specific questions you want answered?
I have one..... Can the 2020 LG’s Dolby Vision be fully calibrated using an alternative white point? I ask because even though I can autocal or manual cal the grayscale in DV on the 2018/19 LGs with an alternative white point, as soon as the DV config file is loaded, it is no longer what I calibrated the white point to. Opening the config file shows D65 coordinates and not the Custom whitepoint coordinates.
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post #43 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 05:39 PM
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I have one..... Can the 2020 LG’s Dolby Vision be fully calibrated using an alternative white point? I ask because even though I can autocal or manual cal the grayscale in DV on the 2018/19 LGs with an alternative white point, as soon as the DV config file is loaded, it is no longer what I calibrated the white point to. Opening the config file shows D65 coordinates and not the Custom whitepoint coordinates.


Dolby does not believe in alternative white points even on RGB OLED.

But I think you can override this by manually editing the DoVi configuration file, and entering the custom white point that you are targeting.

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post #44 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 06:25 PM
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Dolby does not believe in alternative white points even on RGB OLED.

But I think you can override this by manually editing the DoVi configuration file, and entering the custom white point that you are targeting.
Tried that too. Unfortunately no dice.
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post #45 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I spoke to Robert at the store yesterday and he was unable to do the interview like he did last year. But he did meet with Neil briefly and at a high level and it's confirmed that they took the A9G2 chipset and combined everything to new silicon A9G3 and with the added speed improved near black, motion, upscaling, etc, while adding new features like BFI the type we were supposed to get last year. Unfortunately no in-depth technical details. The good news is we should be seeing selected size retail models early this year so evaluation will be once we get to physically test and look at the sets.


Do you keep AI Picture set to On in the showroom floor models?


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I don’t believe so but with the 2020 sets I think we will try it.
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post #46 of 63 Old 01-12-2020, 07:43 PM
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@WiFi-Spy Tyler please post the link to the video with you that Neil was referring to.

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post #47 of 63 Old 01-13-2020, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
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2020 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Dolby does not believe in alternative white points even on RGB OLED.
Didn't dolby worked together with LG for custom white point for OLED panels?
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post #48 of 63 Old 01-13-2020, 01:54 AM
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Are there any specific questions you want answered?

- does LG offer an automatic mode for bfi like Panasonic?
- what are the changes on 2020 WOLED Panels?
- why FILMMAKER Mode uses Sharpness 10 (normally Sharpness 0 is the neutral setting for LG TVs)
- is full chroma processing supported now with 24 hz sources (in the past only with 60hz)
- do they now use the correct formulas to convert Ycbcr to rgb?
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Didn't dolby worked together with LG for custom white point for OLED panels?
"LG Electronics with Dolby Laboratories have published an article during SID's Display Week 2018, its available inside to SID Symposium Digest of Technical Papers - Volume 49, Issue 1 (May 2018) issue.
For that study, 'Correcting Metameric Failure of Wide Color Gamut Displays', using 13 reliable observers they performed a visual color matching method trying to match a Reference Grade-1 CRT with the LG OLED and they found that to perceptual match the Reference White of CRT, a custom White Point with x: 0.308 y: 0.313 coordinates has to be used for the LG OLED."
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post #50 of 63 Old 01-13-2020, 08:17 AM
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Neil said there are subtle differences between ISF Dark with all picture processing turned off and Filmmaker PMs. We need to find out what those subtle differences beyond target brightness are.

Also it's going to be interesting to see what PMs consumers who get their sets professionally calibrated want.

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post #51 of 63 Old 01-13-2020, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Neil said there are subtle differences between ISF Dark with all picture processing turned off and Filmmaker PMs. We need to find out what those subtle differences beyond target brightness are.



Also it's going to be interesting to see what PMs consumers who get their sets professionally calibrated want.


The only difference he is talking about refers to the brightness.

FILMMAKER MODE has OLED light at 25 to hit ~ 100 nits, and ISF Dark is set to 60, which is much brighter.

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post #52 of 63 Old 01-13-2020, 08:31 AM
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The only difference he is talking about refers to the brightness.

FILMMAKER MODE has OLED light at 25 to hit ~ 100 nits, and ISF Dark is set to 60, which is much brighter.
Perhaps. The PMs could change the underlying brightness and contrast "windows", much like Sub-Brightness and Sub-Contrast do on some TVs. You won't know for sure until a 2020 set is measured.

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post #53 of 63 Old 01-13-2020, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Perhaps. The PMs could change the underlying brightness and contrast "windows", much like Sub-Brightness and Sub-Contrast do on some TVs. You won't know for sure until a 2020 set is measured.

Sure we have to wait till we can measure to be sure but I will be very surprised if there will be any other difference.

The technicolor mode, for example, also has only one difference, and that's the pre-selected color temperature, which is Warm 1 instead of Warm 2.
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Question for calibrators (DIY or professional). Does your colorimeter come into *direct contact* with the (LG C9) screen? The C9 panel gets rather warm and conceivably it could "melt" part of the rubber gasket on the camera end and cause an irremovable stain on the screen. This happened during a calibration performed by Kevin Miller on my KS9800, and the KS9800 doesn't get nearly as warm as the C9.

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post #55 of 63 Old 01-14-2020, 08:17 AM
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Question for calibrators (DIY or professional). Does your colorimeter come into *direct contact* with the (LG C9) screen? The C9 panel gets rather warm and conceivably it could "melt" part of the rubber gasket on the camera end and cause an irremovable stain on the screen. This happened during a calibration performed by Kevin Miller on my KS9800, and the KS9800 doesn't get nearly as warm as the C9.
In all my time calibrating I've never heard of something like this happening. Many pro calibrators use the Klein K10A which is temperature compensated and the sensors are way back in the probe away from the panel. That rubber hood is made to contact the screen so i'm not sure what could have happened. Yes the panel does get hot but no where near hot enough to melt rubber. I know we leave the plastic on the panel on the showroom sets and none have melted lol. The only thing I can think of is maybe the rubber on the probe came in contact with a panel that wasn't clean and it picked something up? I know I clean mine often and always make sure whatever it touches, it's perfectly clean.

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post #56 of 63 Old 01-14-2020, 08:30 AM
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In all my time calibrating I've never heard of something like this happening. Many pro calibrators use the Klein K10A which is temperature compensated and the sensors are way back in the probe away from the panel. That rubber hood is made to contact the screen so i'm not sure what could have happened. Yes the panel does get hot but no where near hot enough to melt rubber. I know we leave the plastic on the panel on the showroom sets and none have melted lol. The only thing I can think of is maybe the rubber on the probe came in contact with a panel that wasn't clean and it picked something up? I know I clean mine often and always make sure whatever it touches, it's perfectly clean.
Thank you, @jrref .

Yeah from what I've been told this is bizarre and unheard of. This is speculation on my part... the Samsung KS9800 that this happened to (and the stain was verified by Samsung authorized service to which I have the paperwork) is a curved screen and of a "moth eye" design. It is conceivable (again conjecture on my part) that because of the curve, the camera rubber hood cannot "seat" properly (because the screen is not flat in the center where the rubber hood was situated) and, in addition, the moth eye screen actually looks somewhat porous compared to other screens I've seen.

The bottom line is I felt I had to replace my KS9800. So I just (a week ago) purchased the LG C9 and am now seeking to have it calibrated (or at least scheduling a calibration as it needs a little time to break in). I'm "snake bit" by this experience and a bit reluctant to allow a camera to come into contact with the screen.

Is there an alternative? In other words, *must* the camera come into contact with the screen? Does both a spectrophotometer and colorimeter need to come into contact?

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post #57 of 63 Old 01-14-2020, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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2020 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Please let's get back to the topic. This thread is dedicated to the calibration capabilities of the new LG 2020 models.

If you have general questions about calibration, please use other threads or create a specific one.

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post #58 of 63 Old 01-14-2020, 10:23 AM
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Thank you, @jrref .

Yeah from what I've been told this is bizarre and unheard of. This is speculation on my part... the Samsung KS9800 that this happened to (and the stain was verified by Samsung authorized service to which I have the paperwork) is a curved screen and of a "moth eye" design. It is conceivable (again conjecture on my part) that because of the curve, the camera rubber hood cannot "seat" properly (because the screen is not flat in the center where the rubber hood was situated) and, in addition, the moth eye screen actually looks somewhat porous compared to other screens I've seen.

The bottom line is I felt I had to replace my KS9800. So I just (a week ago) purchased the LG C9 and am now seeking to have it calibrated (or at least scheduling a calibration as it needs a little time to break in). I'm "snake bit" by this experience and a bit reluctant to allow a camera to come into contact with the screen.

Is there an alternative? In other words, *must* the camera come into contact with the screen? Does both a spectrophotometer and colorimeter need to come into contact?
The meter doesn't have to be in contact with the panel. We mainly do that if the room is not totally dark to avoid reflections, etc.. You can set up the meter on a tripod slightly away from the panel. Either way you just need to make sure the FOV of the meter is as close as possible as the spectro.
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post #59 of 63 Old 01-16-2020, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
- why FILMMAKER Mode uses Sharpness 10 (normally Sharpness 0 is the neutral setting for LG TVs)
- do they now use the correct formulas to convert Ycbcr to rgb?
Sharpness 10 is the default on my C8 as well. I thought it's the default on C9s too.

What is the issue you are asking about with the YCbCr to RGB conversion on LG OLED TVs? I'm asking because this is the first time I see this mentioned, didn't know there were any issues.
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post #60 of 63 Old 01-16-2020, 11:46 AM
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@WiFi-Spy Tyler please post the link to the video with you that Neil was referring to.
I think it's the video I posted. They were both interviews taken by Phil from avforums.
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