2020 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 161 Old 01-16-2020, 10:46 AM
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@WiFi-Spy Tyler please post the link to the video with you that Neil was referring to.
I think it's the video I posted. They were both interviews taken by Phil from avforums.
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post #62 of 161 Old 01-16-2020, 12:37 PM
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- why FILMMAKER Mode uses Sharpness 10 (normally Sharpness 0 is the neutral setting for LG TVs)
- do they now use the correct formulas to convert Ycbcr to rgb?
Sharpness 10 is the default on my C8 as well. I thought it's the default on C9s too.

What is the issue you are asking about with the YCbCr to RGB conversion on LG OLED TVs? I'm asking because this is the first time I see this mentioned, didn't know there were any issues.
FILMMAKERMODE should disable all processing which changes the picture, like edge enhancement.

No edge enhancement is sharpness 0 for LG TVs. 10 is the standard value for most modes but this is not the bypass setting without processing.

1-3 digital errors can happen through ycbr-rgb conversion. The measured values from LG Oleds are higher and indicate they are maybe using not the correct formulas.

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post #63 of 161 Old 01-16-2020, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
FILMMAKERMODE should disable all processing which changes the picture, like edge enhancement.

No edge enhancement is sharpness 0 for LG TVs. 10 is the standard value for most modes but this is not the bypass setting without processing.

1-3 digital errors can happen through ycbr-rgb conversion. The measured values from LG Oleds are higher and indicate they are maybe using not the correct formulas.


What do you mean measured values? Pretty much all modern TV video pipelines Convert between RGB and YCbCr are multiple times before it hits the panel.

LUTs have to be applied in RGB space, While things like sharpening and CMS happens in YCbCr space.

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post #64 of 161 Old 01-16-2020, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
FILMMAKERMODE should disable all processing which changes the picture, like edge enhancement.

No edge enhancement is sharpness 0 for LG TVs. 10 is the standard value for most modes but this is not the bypass setting without processing.

1-3 digital errors can happen through ycbr-rgb conversion. The measured values from LG Oleds are higher and indicate they are maybe using not the correct formulas.


What do you mean measured values? Pretty much all modern TV video pipelines Convert between RGB and YCbCr are multiple times before it hits the panel.

LUTs have to be applied in RGB space, While things like sharpening and CMS happens in YCbCr space.
If you measure with bit perfect rgb and ycbcr pattern generator outputs the difference between the rgb and ycbcr measurings is smaller for example on Panasonic TVs compared to LG TVs.

We don’t know exactly what they do internal but less manipulation is welcome.
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post #65 of 161 Old 01-29-2020, 11:32 AM
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LG C9 calibration

A big shout out and "thank you" to @JReff for calibrating my 65 inch LG C9. A methodical and meticulous job! I'd highly recommend him to anyone in the downstate NY area (or anywhere else for that matter, although I understand he doesn't travel far).

Side note, nice to see that certain calibrators like John actually use a spectroradiometer to profile their colorimeter, spends the time to do the job right, and has outstanding "customer service" both before and after the work is performed. Not every "professional" calibrator does, and you know who you are!
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post #66 of 161 Old 03-18-2020, 03:01 PM
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Bumping this thread because my LG CX 65" should be arriving this week. Excited to learn more before I do my first calibration.

The website for buying CalMan Home 2019 for LG doesn't list the 2020 models as being supported.

@WiFi-Spy Are the 2020 LG TVs supported in CalMan Home 2019, or do we need to wait for CalMan Home 2020?
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post #67 of 161 Old 03-18-2020, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
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CalMAN Home 2019 support the 2020 Models.
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post #68 of 161 Old 03-19-2020, 07:14 AM
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CalMAN Home 2019 support the 2020 Models.
Except you will need the next CM update to calibrate Filmmaker PM and use the iTPG since these are new implementations. Everything else should work just select the 2019 LG when connecting to the TV.
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post #69 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 12:04 PM
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Here are the OOTB scans for my 55CX. D-Nice is working on Filmmaker PM at 100 Nits on his set so i'm working on ISF Dark PM at 150 Nits on mine. From what we can tell HDR FM PM is the same as HDR Cinema with all the processing defaulted to OFF but Real Cinema defaulted to ON. My CX looks like any other LG C8 or C9 to me calibration wise. This set is one of the better ones i've seen ootb since most deltaE is below 3. HDR Cinema PM PL is 700 Nits, D65, 10% window. I don't see any banding or vignetting all the way down to 2%. Full 100% white shows no tinting but there may be a slight touch of magenta tint in the lower left hand corner. Preliminary opinion is upscaling, motion and overall PQ has improved incrementally. When i put the CX next to my Sony with the same content it's very hard to differentiate them. HDR/DV is bright on the CX but in line with past years. I don't believe DV IQ is implemented yet since i can't see any control to turn it on or any indicators when playing DV. Comparing the CX to the C9 overall, i like the CX PQ better since it's now pretty much the same as on the Sony but with all the cool LG features and calibration controls. The C9 PQ was more film like vs the CX is more 3D like similar to the Sony presentation of course with Real Cinema set to OFF. The new processor does a great job cleaning up cable and low bit rate streaming. I've seen instances of macro blocking on my Sony where the CX presentation was totally clean. Near black seem on par with previous years only with all the new algorithms implemented. No problem with black level on SDR. But i'm seeing slightly raised black with DV but if i turn the BL down 1 click to 49 it's perfect so i'm guessing it's a calibration issue. Will post what i find out. BFI is implemented on the HDMI inputs only. You have the option of Low, Medium and High. It works but i personally prefer it set to OFF. I only have 100 hours on the set so i'm going to do a quick calibration using CalMan then once it's broken in i'll calibrate with Lightspace to give a comparison. OOTB my set is vectoring towards blue so it's driving me crazy when trying to compare to other calibrated sets. I don't see any indication that the panel has changed but D-Nice will look at it visually and let us know. If we see more "clean" panels this model year it will mean that LGs QC is better and or they have done something to improve banding and tinting.
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post #70 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Here are the OOTB scans for my 55CX. D-Nice is working on Filmmaker PM at 100 Nits on his set so i'm working on ISF Dark PM at 150 Nits on mine. From what we can tell HDR FM PM is the same as HDR Cinema with all the processing defaulted to OFF but Real Cinema defaulted to ON. My CX looks like any other LG C8 or C9 to me calibration wise. This set is one of the better ones i've seen ootb since most deltaE is below 3. HDR Cinema PM PL is 700 Nits, D65, 10% window. I don't see any banding or vignetting all the way down to 2%. Full 100% white shows no tinting but there may be a slight touch of magenta tint in the lower left hand corner. Preliminary opinion is upscaling, motion and overall PQ has improved incrementally. When i put the CX next to my Sony with the same content it's very hard to differentiate them. HDR/DV is bright on the CX but in line with past years. I don't believe DV+ is implemented yet since i can't see any control to turn it on or any indicators when playing DV. Comparing the CX to the C9 overall, i like the CX PQ better since it's now pretty much the same as on the Sony but with all the cool LG features and calibration controls. The C9 PQ was more film like vs the CX is more 3D like similar to the Sony presentation of course with Real Cinema set to OFF. The new processor does a great job cleaning up cable and low bit rate streaming. I've seen instances of macro blocking on my Sony where the CX presentation was totally clean. Near black seem on par with previous years only with all the new algorithms implemented. No problem with black level on SDR. But i'm seeing slightly raised black with DV but if i turn the BL down 1 click to 49 it's perfect so i'm guessing it's a calibration issue. Will post what i find out. BFI is implemented on the HDMI inputs only. You have the option of Low, Medium and High. It works but i personally prefer it set to OFF. I only have 100 hours on the set so i'm going to do a quick calibration using CalMan then once it's broken in i'll calibrate with Lightspace to give a comparison. OOTB my set is vectoring towards blue so it's driving me crazy when trying to compare to other calibrated sets. I don't see any indication that the panel has changed but D-Nice will look at it visually and let us know. If we see more "clean" panels this model year it will mean that LGs QC is better and or they have done something to improve banding and tinting.

OOTB, my 65C9 was a bit better than that albeit in ISF Dark at 100 nits. But, if you remember at the time John, it looked like I had got very lucky with great panel and it is something that was discussed quite a bit back then by a few of us.

My 65C9 also measured pretty high luminance in HDR OOTB (Cinema Home 860 nits, Cinema 820 nits) and once calibrated to D65 sits at just over 750 nits. In stark contrast to that my first 65C9 was awful OOTB, was extremely hard to calibrate even in SDR with LightSpace, and measured well below 600 nits in HDR post-cal to D65.

If the above scans prove to be indicative to the average CX on a whole, then I'd say that is improvement enough in itself especially when you consider the lower prices compared to previous years! Only time will tell as more scans come in. I look forward to your post cal conclusions and to what D-Nice finds too.

Thanks for the update John.
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post #71 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 12:36 PM
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Here are the OOTB scans for my 55CX. D-Nice is working on Filmmaker PM at 100 Nits on his set so i'm working on ISF Dark PM at 150 Nits on mine. From what we can tell HDR FM PM is the same as HDR Cinema with all the processing defaulted to OFF but Real Cinema defaulted to ON. My CX looks like any other LG C8 or C9 to me calibration wise. This set is one of the better ones i've seen ootb since most deltaE is below 3. HDR Cinema PM PL is 700 Nits, D65, 10% window. I don't see any banding or vignetting all the way down to 2%. Full 100% white shows no tinting but there may be a slight touch of magenta tint in the lower left hand corner. Preliminary opinion is upscaling, motion and overall PQ has improved incrementally. When i put the CX next to my Sony with the same content it's very hard to differentiate them. HDR/DV is bright on the CX but in line with past years. I don't believe DV+ is implemented yet since i can't see any control to turn it on or any indicators when playing DV. Comparing the CX to the C9 overall, i like the CX PQ better since it's now pretty much the same as on the Sony but with all the cool LG features and calibration controls. The C9 PQ was more film like vs the CX is more 3D like similar to the Sony presentation of course with Real Cinema set to OFF. The new processor does a great job cleaning up cable and low bit rate streaming. I've seen instances of macro blocking on my Sony where the CX presentation was totally clean. Near black seem on par with previous years only with all the new algorithms implemented. No problem with black level on SDR. But i'm seeing slightly raised black with DV but if i turn the BL down 1 click to 49 it's perfect so i'm guessing it's a calibration issue. Will post what i find out. BFI is implemented on the HDMI inputs only. You have the option of Low, Medium and High. It works but i personally prefer it set to OFF. I only have 100 hours on the set so i'm going to do a quick calibration using CalMan then once it's broken in i'll calibrate with Lightspace to give a comparison. OOTB my set is vectoring towards blue so it's driving me crazy when trying to compare to other calibrated sets. I don't see any indication that the panel has changed but D-Nice will look at it visually and let us know. If we see more "clean" panels this model year it will mean that LGs QC is better and or they have done something to improve banding and tinting.
Thank you so much. Super helpful. Have been trying to figure out whether to wait for Black Friday for a CX or look for markdown deals on a C9. Even though you say improvements are incremental, they're enough for me to be patient and wait for November to roll around.
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post #72 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 12:51 PM
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OOTB, my 65C9 was a bit better than that albeit in ISF Dark at 100 nits. But, if you remember at the time John, it looked like I had got very lucky with great panel and it is something that was discussed quite a bit back then by a few of us.

My 65C9 also measured pretty high luminance in HDR OOTB (Cinema Home 860 nits, Cinema 820 nits) and once calibrated to D65 sits at just over 750 nits. In stark contrast to that my first 65C9 was awful OOTB, was extremely hard to calibrate even in SDR with LightSpace, and measured well below 600 nits in HDR post-cal to D65.

If the above scans prove to be indicative to the average CX on a whole, then I'd say that is improvement enough in itself especially when you consider the lower prices compared to previous years! Only time will tell as more scans come in. I look forward to your post cal conclusions and to what D-Nice finds too.

Thanks for the update John.
HDR PL is interesting. My Sony measures around 680 nits but the CX noticeably brighter with content even though it measures slightly brighter. Maybe too bright lol and it's following the EOTF curve perfectly. I have measured some C8's and C9's at 730 - 740 nits but they aren't crazy bright when looking at content. The good news so far is at least on DeWayne's CX and mine the banding is really almost perfect. I really can't see any down to 2% where on previous years the set gets non-linear down there. Also tinting was an issue last year and on these two sets, they are incredibly clean. I've also ran earth tone and green test video's to see if tinting was visible and it's not. I'm calibrating now and the gray scale lines up nicely, maybe a little better than what I normally see but the CMS controls according to DeWayne are not so good so i'm just creating a new 3D LUT. We will see how it goes. I only have 100 hours on the set so i'm not going to go crazy with the calibration right now.

I haven't owned an LG for a while but another observation is when you have the screen protection (I forget the name of that setting) to LOW, if you are watching a news conference where the scene isn't changing much, the set gets noticeably dimmer so I had to turn that off. Also I tried AI Pro On and Off and I don't really see a difference. Maybe it's something that changes over time? Not sure. I do like the new LG OS. Much more intelligent and the pointer works way better compared to previous years. All in all, so far I feel LG did a nice job. I'm sure we will find some issues but it looks pretty good where I was a little disappointed with the C9 since I didn't see that much change compared to the C8. Both great but I was expecting more with motion processing on the C9 and as you know BFI was never implemented.

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post #73 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 01:09 PM
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HDR PL is interesting. My Sony measures around 680 nits but the CX noticeably brighter with content even though it measures slightly brighter. Maybe too bright lol and it's following the EOTF curve perfectly. I have measured some C8's and C9's at 730 - 740 nits but they aren't crazy bright when looking at content. The good news so far is at least on DeWayne's CX and mine the banding is really almost perfect. I really can't see any down to 2% where on previous years the set gets non-linear down there. Also tinting was an issue last year and on these two sets, they are incredibly clean. I've also ran earth tone and green test video's to see if tinting was visible and it's not. I'm calibrating now and the gray scale lines up nicely, maybe a little better than what I normally see but the CMS controls according to DeWayne are not so good so i'm just creating a new 3D LUT. We will see how it goes. I only have 100 hours on the set so i'm not going to go crazy with the calibration right now.
It seems I may have been a lot more lucky than I previously thought then, because my 2019 shows no sign of banding or tinting either (the first one had very slight tint on earth tones). I do have very light vignetting towards the upper two corners only visible when looking for it, absolutely not visible in content though. HDR is nice and bright in a dark environment, the extra peak luminance allows for better highlight detail, especially with custom tone curves applied.

I highly doubt I will upgrade to a CX this year as IMO my C9 is as good a sample you can get from that model year. I'm happy with the motion handling as I am used to OLED now, and all my content is pretty high quality (Full HD at minimum) so upscaling is not an issue to me. Just very interested to see what, if any improvements there are post calibration.

I'll watch this thread in anticipation.

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post #74 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 01:10 PM
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I don't believe DV+ is implemented yet since i can't see any control to turn it on or any indicators when playing DV.
thankyou, I have a question, what is DV+? Dolby Vision Plus? Never heard of it? If you mean Dolby Vision IQ, I think that's only in the "Dolby Vision Cinema Home" mode and not the "Dolby Vision Cinema" mode from what I've gleaned so far.

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thankyou, I have a question, what is DV+? Dolby Vision Plus? Never heard of it? If you mean Dolby Vision IQ, I think that's only in the "Dolby Vision Cinema Home" mode and not the "Dolby Vision Cinema" mode from what I've gleaned so far.
Right sorry yes DV IQ. I'll check that later.
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BFI is implemented on the HDMI inputs only. You have the option of Low, Medium and High. It works but i personally prefer it set to OFF.
Why? That was supposed to be one of the biggest improvements for all 2020 OLED's in taking motion handling to new heights.
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Why? That was supposed to be one of the biggest improvements for all 2020 OLED's in taking motion handling to new heights.
Because there is not enough guidance on how to calibrate with it On. D-Nice has experimented and discovered you need to calibrate for whatever setting you use. I need to look at it more. Visually I don't see any shift when setting it to On but I would really like to see some guidance from LG. As I said, it works fine and you have three choices but LG has also made improvements to the non-BFI processing as well.

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But i'm seeing slightly raised black with DV but if i turn the BL down 1 click to 49 it's perfect so i'm guessing it's a calibration issue. Will post what i find out.
This is exactly the same case with my C8, though in mine I do think it's crushing blacks just a bit at 49 in DV, but I don't have the tools to test that. Mine's is not calibrated so can't comment on if that helped.
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Right sorry yes DV IQ. I'll check that later.
Great, thanks! Yes I believe that it's a Dolby Vision copy of the "AI Brightness" function for HDR10, with both of them using the TV's light sensor.

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post #80 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Because there is not enough guidance on how to calibrate with it On. D-Nice has experimented and discovered you need to calibrate for whatever setting you use. I need to look at it more. Visually I don't see any shift when setting it to On but I would really like to see some guidance from LG. As I said, it works fine and you have three choices but LG has also made improvements to the non-BFI processing as well.
Calibrate with it Off then measure with it On to see the difference.
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post #81 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Because there is not enough guidance on how to calibrate with it On. D-Nice has experimented and discovered you need to calibrate for whatever setting you use. I need to look at it more. Visually I don't see any shift when setting it to On but I would really like to see some guidance from LG. As I said, it works fine and you have three choices but LG has also made improvements to the non-BFI processing as well.
Thanks for all of your work on this! Really appreciated! I guess I am left with the question about your response re BFI. Are you saying you prefer off because it does not make a visible difference in terms of motion when turned on and leaves the picture too dark or that that it is a calibration issue when using BFI. Second are you saying that even without using BFI at all, the motion handling has improved to make it on par with the Sony? Thanks,

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post #82 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JSchulte View Post
Thanks for all of your work on this! Really appreciated! I guess I am left with the question about your response re BFI. Are you saying you prefer off because it does not make a visible difference in terms of motion when turned on and leaves the picture too dark or that that it is a calibration issue when using BFI. Second are you saying that even without using BFI at all, the motion handling has improved to make it on par with the Sony? Thanks,
I have some calibration concerns and yes I feel, just my opinion, even with it off it's on par with the Sony at this point.

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post #83 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 05:43 PM
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It seems I may have been a lot more lucky than I previously thought then, because my 2019 shows no sign of banding or tinting either (the first one had very slight tint on earth tones). I do have very light vignetting towards the upper two corners only visible when looking for it, absolutely not visible in content though. HDR is nice and bright in a dark environment, the extra peak luminance allows for better highlight detail, especially with custom tone curves applied.

I highly doubt I will upgrade to a CX this year as IMO my C9 is as good a sample you can get from that model year. I'm happy with the motion handling as I am used to OLED now, and all my content is pretty high quality (Full HD at minimum) so upscaling is not an issue to me. Just very interested to see what, if any improvements there are post calibration.

I'll watch this thread in anticipation.
So after talking to D-Nice i was taking the HDR PL readings incorrectly. When i used his process my LG peaks at 725 nits. The C8 and C9 are all excellent sets but the CX takes it a step further in my opinion and i would say at this point unless you want to increase the size of your panel, if you are a gamer or you have a panel with noticeable tinting and or banding then you may consider upgrading. I don't know what the Sony A9H will look like but if it didn't bring anything new then this LG could be a consideration even for the Sony folks.
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post #84 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 06:35 PM
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Here is my LS 3DLUT verification report of ISF Expert Dark Room via CalMan. Working on doing a 1000 point verification via LS now.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf OLED55CXPUA Calibration Report (ISF Expert Dark Room).pdf (924.4 KB, 103 views)
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post #85 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 10:29 PM
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Can anyone provide insight into how to read those graphs?
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post #86 of 161 Old 03-23-2020, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Here is my LS 3DLUT verification report of ISF Expert Dark Room via CalMan. Working on doing a 1000 point verification via LS now.
Very nice. Would you be able to provide the BCS of the 1000 point verification when you have done this for those of us that use LightSpace so we can see it in more detail?

Thank you in advance

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post #87 of 161 Old 03-24-2020, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Here is my LS 3DLUT verification report of ISF Expert Dark Room via CalMan. Working on doing a 1000 point verification via LS now.
Have you already checked if your AWP also fits with the CX. Thanks D.

Miki

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post #88 of 161 Old 03-24-2020, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
Very nice. Would you be able to provide the BCS of the 1000 point verification when you have done this for those of us that use LightSpace so we can see it in more detail?

Thank you in advance
Sure will.
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post #89 of 161 Old 03-24-2020, 05:01 AM
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Have you already checked if your AWP also fits with the CX. Thanks D.

Miki
It does and already in use.
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post #90 of 161 Old 03-24-2020, 09:25 AM
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Here are my results for ISF Dark, I calibrated fairly bright because i wanted to match my Sony and i use the set during the day in a fairly bright room but even at this higher brightness level the calibration results look good. I did a simple quick 1D LUT and Lightening LUT with CalMan. Once i have enough time on the set i'll try a Lightspace calibration.
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