2020 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 161 Old 03-25-2020, 05:40 AM
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Dolby Vision is pretty much FUBAR on these displays....


  • Grayscale calibration (Manual or AutoCal) with the Pattern Generator set to Relative produces excellent results as long as you stay in Relative mode. Absolute mode does not use any of Relative mode’s grayscale adjustments. This is regardless of uploading/not uploading the Dolby Configuration file..... which seems to need an update from Portrait (file naming convention) and LG (file formatting).

  • Calibrating in Perceptual mode is beyond a PITA since the grayscale controls do not line up with stimuli levels (LG, this is solely your fault)

  • 0% stimuli is elevated (glows). Reducing the brightness to 49 corrects the glow. However, brightness 49 clips 0.5 - 2.3% stimuli)

  • Dolby in Perceptual mode tracks to the right of the EOTF (PQ).... this means a darker Dolby Vision presentation OOTB.

  • Cannot verify which mode, Perceptual or Absolute, is being used with real content. Finger is being pointed at Dolby, Portrait and LG. I will see if I can figure this out with a different methodology today. This issue may also exist on 2019 models.

As of now, Dolby Vision on the CX series gets a D- rating from me. I’ll provide screen shots of the EOTF/PQ and grayscale tracking in Perceptual, Absolute and Relative mode later today.
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post #92 of 161 Old 03-25-2020, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Dolby Vision is pretty much FUBAR on these displays....
Good to read your thoughts.

Quote:
  • Grayscale calibration (Manual or AutoCal) with the Pattern Generator set to Relative produces excellent results as long as you stay in Relative mode. Absolute mode does not use any of Relative mode’s grayscale adjustments. This is regardless of uploading/not uploading the Dolby Configuration file..... which seems to need an update from Portrait (file naming convention) and LG (file formatting).
Great - so for 3 separate years 2018, 2019, 2020 they decided to use 3 different file formats! That's beyond ridiculous.

Quote:
  • 0% stimuli is elevated (glows). Reducing the brightness to 49 corrects the glow. However, brightness 49 clips 0.5 - 2.3% stimuli)
Exact same problem on 2018 and 2019 models, reported a long time again, still not fixed after a long time IIRC.

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post #93 of 161 Old 03-25-2020, 09:33 AM
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I got an update this morning. The CX is using Dolby Vision 4.0 where the previous sets are using DV 2.9

You can look up the differences.

Also i understand LG Korea is working the issue right now so i'm confident we will get a fix fairly quickly.

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post #94 of 161 Old 03-25-2020, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Dolby Vision is pretty much FUBAR on these displays....


  • Grayscale calibration (Manual or AutoCal) with the Pattern Generator set to Relative produces excellent results as long as you stay in Relative mode. Absolute mode does not use any of Relative mode’s grayscale adjustments. This is regardless of uploading/not uploading the Dolby Configuration file..... which seems to need an update from Portrait (file naming convention) and LG (file formatting).

  • Calibrating in Perceptual mode is beyond a PITA since the grayscale controls do not line up with stimuli levels (LG, this is solely your fault)

  • 0% stimuli is elevated (glows). Reducing the brightness to 49 corrects the glow. However, brightness 49 clips 0.5 - 2.3% stimuli)

  • Dolby in Perceptual mode tracks to the right of the EOTF (PQ).... this means a darker Dolby Vision presentation OOTB.

  • Cannot verify which mode, Perceptual or Absolute, is being used with real content. Finger is being pointed at Dolby, Portrait and LG. I will see if I can figure this out with a different methodology today. This issue may also exist on 2019 models.

As of now, Dolby Vision on the CX series gets a D- rating from me. I’ll provide screen shots of the EOTF/PQ and grayscale tracking in Perceptual, Absolute and Relative mode later today.
Here are the scans:

Perceptual





Absolute





Relative





USB input





Apparently, the USB port is in Absolute mode but is not using the transferred grayscale inputs I did.
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Last edited by D-Nice; 03-25-2020 at 12:16 PM.
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post #95 of 161 Old 03-25-2020, 01:45 PM
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DeWayne, as discussed, I'm getting exactly what you got when i used Autocal vs your manual calibration with Dolby Vision. I sent in my CM CDF file this morning for this so hopefully they will be able to figure out what's going on.
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post #96 of 161 Old 03-25-2020, 01:49 PM
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I did a Fixed Grid 17, calibration today. Got pretty good results.
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post #97 of 161 Old 03-25-2020, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I did a Fixed Grid 17, calibration today. Got pretty good results.
Looks good John. Are you going to run a LightSpace 3D LUT too?

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post #98 of 161 Old 03-25-2020, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I did a Fixed Grid 17, calibration today. Got pretty good results.
Looks good John. Are you going to run a LightSpace 3D LUT too?
Yes once I get enough hours on the set.
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post #99 of 161 Old 03-25-2020, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I did a Fixed Grid 17, calibration today. Got pretty good results.
That's awesome. A small request, if I may - for future screenshots, if it's ok please would you scroll the greyscale datatable fully to the left before grabbing the screenshot? This would mean we can read all the values in the datatable for the near-black luminances rather than the brighter ones which are less intriguing? Thanks
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post #100 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 12:31 AM
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Yes once I get enough hours on the set.
John,
I didn’t know that a set needs “enough” hours to be calibrated with LightSpace, while with CM it is good after 100 hours. Have you noticed something weird? Could you explain that? Thanks
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post #101 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
John,
I didn’t know that a set needs “enough” hours to be calibrated with LightSpace, while with CM it is good after 100 hours. Have you noticed something weird? Could you explain that? Thanks
That's not what i meant sorry for the confusion. Initially i'm focusing on visually evaluating the set watching content like a regular consumer would and working with Robert and D-Nice, we are finding a couple issues/irregularities that have to be reported to LG to investigate. I used CalMan to quickly get my sets matched because it's software I know best and have the most experience with. D-Nice and I were discussing this yesterday, we learned a long time ago you need some reference or device that you are familiar with to do a good evaluation. Once I get this all done, and other chores that I need to do lol, then the set will be more stable and i'll use Lightspace to focus on the calibration.

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post #102 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 01:30 PM
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Found another issue with the CX series.....


The display tracks the EOTF (PQ) different depending on the DV signal type. If the signal says the TV should do the DV processing (aka TV-Led), the EOTF is tracked perfectly. However, if the signal says the source device is going to do the processing (aka Player-Led), it tracks the EOTF to the right.... meaning a darker image. I've confirmed the C9 series behaves the same way. So, there needs to be a firmware update that ensures regardless of DV signal type (Player-Led or TV-Led) the calibration is the same. I will do a write up of my findings and send it to Portrait and LG. Below are the EOTF scans in Cinema DV for Player-Led and TV-Led DV processing (looks pretty much the same as what I posted yesterday):

Player-Led





TV-Led

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post #103 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 01:31 PM
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^^^As discussed great detective work!
I don't think anyone has ever tested this/

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post #104 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 02:09 PM
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^^^As discussed great detective work!
I don't think anyone has ever tested this/
Yeah, it will be very interesting to see what “other” sources find when they do similar testing. Let’s eee if they give credit where it is due instead of saying they found it all by themselves or referencing myself as an “AVS member”
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post #105 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 02:10 PM
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@D-Nice , I assume Apple TV DV is TV-Led? What devices are Player-Led? Its seems CX and C9 are using DV 4.0.

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post #106 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 02:29 PM
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@D-Nice , I assume Apple TV DV is TV-Led? What devices are Player-Led? Its seems CX and C9 are using DV 4.0.
ATV is player-led. Same goes for all other known streaming boxes.
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post #107 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 02:46 PM
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ATV is player-led. Same goes for all other known streaming boxes.
So in theory LG's internal Apple TV app (or Netflix) would output a brighter DV image than Apple's Hardware?
Is this something you could test?

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Here is my LS 3DLUT verification report of ISF Expert Dark Room via CalMan. Working on doing a 1000 point verification via LS now.
How that 1000p verify with LS compared to Post-Cal of CalMAN?
File for share?
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post #109 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Found another issue with the CX series.....





The display tracks the EOTF (PQ) different depending on the DV signal type. If the signal says the TV should do the DV processing (aka TV-Led), the EOTF is tracked perfectly. However, if the signal says the source device is going to do the processing (aka Player-Led), it tracks the EOTF to the right.... meaning a darker image. I've confirmed the C9 series behaves the same way. So, there needs to be a firmware update that ensures regardless of DV signal type (Player-Led or TV-Led) the calibration is the same. I will do a write up of my findings and send it to Portrait and LG. Below are the EOTF scans in Cinema DV for Player-Led and TV-Led DV processing (looks pretty much the same as what I posted yesterday):



Player-Led











TV-Led





In player led mode the player/source does the tone mapping. The TV has no control over it. This is why you should always use TV led Mode if the TV and player/source supports it.

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post #110 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 02:58 PM
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ATV is player-led. Same goes for all other known streaming boxes.


Apple TV supports both.

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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
ATV is player-led. Same goes for all other known streaming boxes.
Can this explain why the ATV 4K outputs raised black in Dolby Vision, whereas the same movie played via UHD Blu Ray (UB820) in Dolby Vision is perfectly fine?

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post #112 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 03:00 PM
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Apple TV supports both.
Is there an option in the settings?

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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Found another issue with the CX series.....





The display tracks the EOTF (PQ) different depending on the DV signal type. If the signal says the TV should do the DV processing (aka TV-Led), the EOTF is tracked perfectly. However, if the signal says the source device is going to do the processing (aka Player-Led), it tracks the EOTF to the right.... meaning a darker image. I've confirmed the C9 series behaves the same way. So, there needs to be a firmware update that ensures regardless of DV signal type (Player-Led or TV-Led) the calibration is the same. I will do a write up of my findings and send it to Portrait and LG. Below are the EOTF scans in Cinema DV for Player-Led and TV-Led DV processing (looks pretty much the same as what I posted yesterday):



Player-Led











TV-Led





Can you share your methodology for measuring grayscale on player led? There’s no such thing as absolute metadata in player led mode.

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Can this explain why the ATV 4K outputs raised black in Dolby Vision, whereas the same movie played via UHD Blu Ray (UB820) in Dolby Vision is perfectly fine?


Dolby Vision on disc is profile 7, vs Profile 5 on streaming. That could be the difference.
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Is there an option in the settings?


If the TV supports both, it should default to TV led.

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post #116 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 03:15 PM
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So in theory LG's internal Apple TV app (or Netflix) would output a brighter DV image than Apple's Hardware?
Is this something you could test?
Already did and the answer is yes.
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post #117 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 03:16 PM
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How that 1000p verify with LS compared to Post-Cal of CalMAN?
File for share?
On hold as I've been dealing with this DV stuff since that original post.
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post #118 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 03:24 PM
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Dolby Vision on disc is profile 7, vs Profile 5 on streaming. That could be the difference.
So is Profile 5 over HDMI borked for the LG's or is this (as I have previously thought) purely an ATV issue? Because it doesn't exist with any of the WebOS apps and I'm fairly sure I never noticed it with DV Netflix content from Xbox One X (need to recheck that) or with DV Netflix from CCU when I looked again last night. They are all surely Profile 5 too (all streamed content).

I only ask as it is something that has been discussed extensively in various threads and possibly relates to the discussion here.

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post #119 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 03:27 PM
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hi D-Nice could you please show scans of DCI and HDR color space measured? Has something changed compared to C9? if you load a Lut with LS on it will DCI / HDR still improve?
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post #120 of 161 Old 03-26-2020, 03:43 PM
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is there still the problem with the CX when you connect an iPhone and the TV that the image is displayed much darker? I currently have this error with my C9!
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