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post #1 of 19 Old 03-12-2020, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Which patterns are "correct?"

I've been dabbling with screen display calibration for a while now. I personally find it's quite a hassle -- that is, until when you finally start to get some of the settings down. That's when it gets a little fun.

I think I should also note that I have excessive OCD. When it comes to calibrating my displays, I want to make sure that I am getting the most perfect, most accurate picture quality possible. Anything that is slightly off or whatever will bother the hell out of me.

I've mainly been trying to calibrate my personal television, which is a Samsung UN24H4000AF, if that might help. I use it for video gaming and for watching cable or movies. I use an HDMI cord for watching cable and playing video games, watching Blu-Rays or DVDs on my PlayStation 3. I also have a Component cable hooked up which I use for gaming on my PlayStation 2 (one of the best consoles ever imo) or OG Xbox.

I think I got most of the settings down -- I have my picture mode set to "Movie," I left my backlight, color and hue alone, and I disabled all of those "fancy features" that promise to make things look "better" but they really don't. I have my color temperature set to "Warm," HDMI Black Level is "Low," and my screen size is set to "Screen Fit" for my HDMI materials.

Now, here's where the problems come in for me: setting the brightness and contrast correctly.

I used to use some pattern images from THX to set my brightness and contrast levels. My "calibration" using the THX patterns led to my brightness being decreased from 45% to 37/36%, and my contrast being increased from 95% to 100%.

So, I stayed with these settings for a while. Gradually, over time, I started to notice that things were too dark -- I could no longer see little tiny dark details in some scenes and games, and sometimes I could barely see anything at all. I thought that this possibly couldn't be correct.

So I fiddled around with some other brightness and contrast patterns, and each one has given me different results. Some were brighter, one I didn't even have to change the default settings, and others I had to dial the brightness down a tiny bit but not too much.

There's so much of these patterns all over the internet, and they're all different from each other in that they all gave me different results. How am I supposed to know what exactly are the "correct" patterns to use?
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post #2 of 19 Old 03-12-2020, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragontooth View Post
I've been dabbling with screen display calibration for a while now. I personally find it's quite a hassle -- that is, until when you finally start to get some of the settings down. That's when it gets a little fun.

I think I should also note that I have excessive OCD. When it comes to calibrating my displays, I want to make sure that I am getting the most perfect, most accurate picture quality possible. Anything that is slightly off or whatever will bother the hell out of me.

I've mainly been trying to calibrate my personal television, which is a Samsung UN24H4000AF, if that might help. I use it for video gaming and for watching cable or movies. I use an HDMI cord for watching cable and playing video games, watching Blu-Rays or DVDs on my PlayStation 3. I also have a Component cable hooked up which I use for gaming on my PlayStation 2 (one of the best consoles ever imo) or OG Xbox.

I think I got most of the settings down -- I have my picture mode set to "Movie," I left my backlight, color and hue alone, and I disabled all of those "fancy features" that promise to make things look "better" but they really don't. I have my color temperature set to "Warm," HDMI Black Level is "Low," and my screen size is set to "Screen Fit" for my HDMI materials.

Now, here's where the problems come in for me: setting the brightness and contrast correctly.

I used to use some pattern images from THX to set my brightness and contrast levels. My "calibration" using the THX patterns led to my brightness being decreased from 45% to 37/36%, and my contrast being increased from 95% to 100%.

So, I stayed with these settings for a while. Gradually, over time, I started to notice that things were too dark -- I could no longer see little tiny dark details in some scenes and games, and sometimes I could barely see anything at all. I thought that this possibly couldn't be correct.

So I fiddled around with some other brightness and contrast patterns, and each one has given me different results. Some were brighter, one I didn't even have to change the default settings, and others I had to dial the brightness down a tiny bit but not too much.

There's so much of these patterns all over the internet, and they're all different from each other in that they all gave me different results. How am I supposed to know what exactly are the "correct" patterns to use?
THX is a reference for, I think, THX reference levels. THX isn't a standard so use reference patterns that are.
I use AVS HD709 and cannot complain.
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post #3 of 19 Old 03-12-2020, 04:45 AM
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Which patterns are "correct?"

THX patterns will be correct assuming you didn’t get some bad ones dowloaded off the internet, but it sounds like you have a levels mismatch between whatever source you are playing them on and the TV. Normally you want the source to output video AKA limited (16-235) levels and also the TV to expect the same.

To make sure the source is set to output video (16-235) levels can depend on the source device itself, but assuming it is connected via HDMI, setting it to output YCbCr color space should force it to output video levels.


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post #4 of 19 Old 03-12-2020, 08:11 AM
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I would like to add to Chad B that the source of choice also gives different calibration results.
In other words ideally each device has its own "correct" setting. Since most TV's don't cater to this I think you can only get some "correct". Other devices will piggyback of these settings but will not be perfect.

Since you are only talking about brightness and contrast though if you check what Chad B suggested you should be fine even with this "issue".
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post #5 of 19 Old 03-22-2020, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
THX patterns will be correct assuming you didn’t get some bad ones dowloaded off the internet, but it sounds like you have a levels mismatch between whatever source you are playing them on and the TV. Normally you want the source to output video AKA limited (16-235) levels and also the TV to expect the same.

To make sure the source is set to output video (16-235) levels can depend on the source device itself, but assuming it is connected via HDMI, setting it to output YCbCr color space should force it to output video levels.


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I think I got everything settled with the HDMI settings, but what about sources like Component? The black level is locked to "normal" and I can't change it. Maybe that's the problem?
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post #6 of 19 Old 03-22-2020, 08:49 PM
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Good to hear that the HDMI sources are behaving.
So for the ps2 and original xbox are you playing the THX patterns off a DVD movie that has the THX patterns included, and the resulting settings make games too dark?

It has been a long time since I have been in the DVD playback settings of either console, but look for a way to output 480P progressive scan while playing DVDs. Then look for a setting like black level enhance or standard or 0 ire vs. 7.5 ire. If you find something like that, switch it to the opposite setting from where it is now and rerun the test.


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post #7 of 19 Old 03-27-2020, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Good to hear that the HDMI sources are behaving.
So for the ps2 and original xbox are you playing the THX patterns off a DVD movie that has the THX patterns included, and the resulting settings make games too dark?

It has been a long time since I have been in the DVD playback settings of either console, but look for a way to output 480P progressive scan while playing DVDs. Then look for a setting like black level enhance or standard or 0 ire vs. 7.5 ire. If you find something like that, switch it to the opposite setting from where it is now and rerun the test.


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I was using THX patterns that I had downloaded off of the PS3 internet browser. Recently, I switched to the AVS HD 709 patterns and downloaded them off of the PS3 browser. I used both sets of patterns for my HDMI and my Component sources.

Is it because I am using images from the internet that the patterns don't work properly or something? Do I need to use videos to properly calibrate?
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post #8 of 19 Old 03-27-2020, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I forgot to mention that I used Glenn Messersmith's website to calibrate my gaming laptop display, if that may help. I was using Windows' stock display calibration setup at first, but things were way too dark in my games, even when I would set the ingame brightness to its maximum level.

The AVS patterns don't work for me either, somewhat, as I cannot see #17 on the brightness pattern no matter how high I set it -- not in the .png version that I downloaded on my PC or PS3, or in the .mp4 video with the color range set to Limited on my PC. If I go on my PC and use the .mp4 with the color range on Full, I can see just about every single bar, but calibrating it then requires me setting the brightness way too dark again.
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post #9 of 19 Old 03-28-2020, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragontooth View Post
I think I got everything settled with the HDMI settings, but what about sources like Component? The black level is locked to "normal" and I can't change it. Maybe that's the problem?
component is ypbr 16-235
basically it is analog ycbcr which is 16-235

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post #10 of 19 Old 03-28-2020, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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component is ypbr 16-235
basically it is analog ycbcr which is 16-235
So, is my Component output already on Low black level, or is there a way to change it? Because on my Component output, there is an option that says "HDMI Black Level," and it's set to "Normal," but it's grayed out so I can't change it.
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post #11 of 19 Old 03-29-2020, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragontooth View Post
So, is my Component output already on Low black level, or is there a way to change it? Because on my Component output, there is an option that says "HDMI Black Level," and it's set to "Normal," but it's grayed out so I can't change it.
That's because it isn't HDMI, but analog, which is 16-235. Period. A signal from equipment that is outputting its video over component should be 16-235 regardless of the original source material.
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post #12 of 19 Old 03-29-2020, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I got all of this sorted out. I'll just sort through various patterns, and see which one has the darkest black levels without making things or details too dark, or which one has the brightest white levels without being too bright. One final question, though: would video patterns work better than static images, like say, a pattern from a DVD or Blu-ray that has the THX Optimizer, or would a good quality image from the Internet work just as fine?
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post #13 of 19 Old 03-29-2020, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragontooth View Post
I think I got all of this sorted out. I'll just sort through various patterns, and see which one has the darkest black levels without making things or details too dark, or which one has the brightest white levels without being too bright. One final question, though: would video patterns work better than static images, like say, a pattern from a DVD or Blu-ray that has the THX Optimizer, or would a good quality image from the Internet work just as fine?
I personally wouldn't depend on a download from the Internet. There are too many variables involved.
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post #14 of 19 Old 03-29-2020, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm just straight up confused now.
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post #15 of 19 Old 03-30-2020, 07:57 AM
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If I were you and if I had a DVD burner, I would go to this thread, choose the AVS HD 709 version that will work in your device(s) and use its calibration patterns, played from a disc in the source (PS3 or PS2). For the PS3 you likely can use the AVCHD version, but I'm not sure. It works in an Xbox One burned on a DVD-RW. For the PS2 you'll have to try the MP4 version I think. There is a PDF with instructions which is very useful.

The benefit there is that you will have a set of patterns that all of the experts here (of which I am not one) are likely very familiar with, and it will remove a variable in your calibration questions.
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post #16 of 19 Old 03-30-2020, 08:12 AM
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good advice^

the whole idea is to use whatever source you will be viewing, meaning if you will use a blutray player, put test patterns in the bluray player.

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post #17 of 19 Old 03-30-2020, 08:38 AM
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I'll also add that this discussion of YCbCr vs RGB Limited vs RGB Full was helpful to me just to get my headspace aligned with the colorspace. I'm sure there are also several good discussions of the topic right here at AVSForum, but Google landed on that one and it clarified things pretty well for me. The additional FAQ at the end is especially pertinent to this thread, I think.

If you really want to trigger your OCD, stimulate the economy to the tune of about $220, and start on the path to being a regular forum thread-reader (if not thread-starter), get yourself an i1Display Pro colorimeter, the easy-to-use-after-the-third-try HCFR calibration software (free), and tune up your gray scale and gamma. Your display does have basic RGB offset/gain controls and a gamma control. Lots of fiddly bits to get those flesh tones smooth as butter (but not butter-colored)!
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post #18 of 19 Old 03-31-2020, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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So, I burned the AVCHD patterns to a DVD earlier this morning. I’ll try to use that to calibrate my HDMI sources, and see how that turns out.

Another question: the description tells that the AVS HD 709 patterns will not also work as a 601 calibration standard, which probably means I won’t be able to calibrate my lower resolution materials with them. What patterns should I use then for my Component sources?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragontooth View Post
So, I burned the AVCHD patterns to a DVD earlier this morning. I’ll try to use that to calibrate my HDMI sources, and see how that turns out.

Another question: the description tells that the AVS HD 709 patterns will not also work as a 601 calibration standard, which probably means I won’t be able to calibrate my lower resolution materials with them. What patterns should I use then for my Component sources?
Okay, so I calibrated my TV with the new AVCHD patterns I had burned to a DVD the other day, and everything worked out fine. No major differences between the AVS HD 709 pattern images that I got from the internet, but I think I'm gonna try to adjust the sharpness a little bit more. Other than that, things worked out good, and the patterns that are featured are more helpful and descriptive than other ones that I've had, so, I think I'll stick with these for my HDMI sources from now on.

So, one more final question, and I'll stay out of you guys' hair: so, the AVS HD 709 patterns do not apply to the Rec. 601 video standards -- in other words, standard definition video, such as my Component sources. Does anyone know of any good patterns that are for Rec 601 materials?
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