AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 151 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4501 of 4667 Old 08-21-2017, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
I've downloaded and burned this to DVD (I don't have a drive that will burn to BluRay DVD). I've also tried putting the various videos into a special folder in my Plex setup and playing them from there using the Plex app on my two Android TV's (both 4K Sony's, one is 2016 model one is 2017 model).

I can't get any of the various videos to blink the way that they're supposed to. I've tried running brightness and contrast both all the way up and all the way down, and I never get the patterns to flash as I'm supposed to. I have the light sensor turned off along with all of the other "automatic" picture settings. What am I missing?

When using the DVD that I burned, I'm playing it back in a Sony UBP-X800 with output resolution set to "Native" (I see 720p on the TV which is what I would expect since the TV is set to do the upscaling).
Did you burn the AVCHD version? That should work.

Note that there's no such thing as a "BluRay DVD". It's either DVD or Blu-ray.

Equipment and collection:
Spoiler!
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post #4502 of 4667 Old 08-21-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by willieconway View Post
Did you burn the AVCHD version? That should work.

Note that there's no such thing as a "BluRay DVD". It's either DVD or Blu-ray.
Yes, I used the AVCHD version of the content. In fact, I downloaded AVCHD-2d.7z. I decompressed to get the ISO image and burned to DVD.

My TV's are Sony XBR75X940D and XBR49X900E. My experience with them is that I get the same exact results (or lack thereof) when trying to adjust brightness or contrast - I can not get anywhere near to the sections that are supposed to be configured, and I don't even get an even level of control at all. I will see flashing along the upper and lower edges further to the left than what I see in the middle of the panel.

I'm using the Custom picture settings, but I've also tried it with CinemaPro, CinemaHome, and a couple of other general presets as well. Results are always just about the same.

I'm aware of my mistake. I meant to write BluRay Disc but wrote DVD instead (too many things going on at once).
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post #4503 of 4667 Old 08-21-2017, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
Yes, I used the AVCHD version of the content. In fact, I downloaded AVCHD-2d.7z. I decompressed to get the ISO image and burned to DVD.

My TV's are Sony XBR75X940D and XBR49X900E. My experience with them is that I get the same exact results (or lack thereof) when trying to adjust brightness or contrast - I can not get anywhere near to the sections that are supposed to be configured, and I don't even get an even level of control at all. I will see flashing along the upper and lower edges further to the left than what I see in the middle of the panel.

I'm using the Custom picture settings, but I've also tried it with CinemaPro, CinemaHome, and a couple of other general presets as well. Results are always just about the same.

I'm aware of my mistake. I meant to write BluRay Disc but wrote DVD instead (too many things going on at once).
Hi, what's your source you playback the AVSHD and what's the video output settings?

With Sony, they have different names to controls that can confuse.

For example the controls Brightness of Sony controls the power of the back-light, the luminance output, It's the back-light control. This need meter to adjust it, since movies mastered to specific luminance levels, if you don't have meter then use a settings comfortable for your eyes which will not tire your eyes after hours of watching.

The control of Sony named as Black Level, controls near black levels, so you will use the Brightness pattern to adjust it.

See some videos here: http://www.tlvexp.ca/tutorials/

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post #4504 of 4667 Old 08-21-2017, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, what's your source you playback the AVSHD and what's the video output settings?

With Sony, they have different names to controls that can confuse.

For example the controls Brightness of Sony controls the power of the back-light, the luminance output, It's the back-light control. This need meter to adjust it, since movies mastered to specific luminance levels, if you don't have meter then use a settings comfortable for your eyes which will not tire your eyes after hours of watching.

The control of Sony named as Black Level, controls near black levels, so you will use the Brightness pattern to adjust it.

See some videos here: http://www.tlvexp.ca/tutorials/
Are you asking for information in addition to what I've already posted?
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post #4505 of 4667 Old 08-21-2017, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
Are you asking for information in addition to what I've already posted?
There were at previous page, ok, from your Sony player, the patterns supposed to be 1080p24 to your Sony TV info.

The Plex may expanding the levels from Video to Data so it will not be possible to see any bars flashing below 16 and higher from 235.

Download the MP4 files and load the from the Sony TV USB to use what bars you see flashing there.

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post #4506 of 4667 Old 08-21-2017, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
There were at previous page, ok, from your Sony player, the patterns supposed to be 1080p24 to your Sony TV info.

The Plex may expanding the levels from Video to Data so it will not be possible to see any bars flashing below 16 and higher from 235.

Download the MP4 files and load the from the Sony TV USB to use what bars you see flashing there.
I tried playing them using USB as well... No difference.

That was actually what I had tried originally, and gave up pretty much right away. Some months passed and I decided to try again using the ISO image burned to CD and it's no different. The Plex app was sort of a "I wonder if this would be different" test, and it wasn't.

I have a feeling that I'm missing something really simple because I generally can figure this stuff out pretty easily (have worked with technology forever, and work in a high-tech field... Have a pretty high-tech computer network at my house, too... this is beyond me for some reason).
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post #4507 of 4667 Old 08-22-2017, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
I tried playing them using USB as well... No difference.

That was actually what I had tried originally, and gave up pretty much right away. Some months passed and I decided to try again using the ISO image burned to CD and it's no different. The Plex app was sort of a "I wonder if this would be different" test, and it wasn't.

I have a feeling that I'm missing something really simple because I generally can figure this stuff out pretty easily (have worked with technology forever, and work in a high-tech field... Have a pretty high-tech computer network at my house, too... this is beyond me for some reason).
To isolate the issue, for testing use the Sony Player and set it's output to native resolution with YCbCr output.

Be sure you are currently at Movie mode and what the current HDMI input you use from the TV don't have any PC icon as active or named (not sure if Sony has these labels, like LG or Samsung..where it's enabling their PC mode)

Disable @ movie mode all enhancements and display the contrast and brightness patterns, post here what numbers of bars you see flashing without any adjustment from you side and what is happening when you do adjustment. Post all results here.

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post #4508 of 4667 Old 08-22-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
...snip...
My TV's are Sony XBR75X940D and XBR49X900E. My experience with them is that I get the same exact results (or lack thereof) when trying to adjust brightness or contrast - I can not get anywhere near to the sections that are supposed to be configured, and I don't even get an even level of control at all. I will see flashing along the upper and lower edges further to the left than what I see in the middle of the panel.
Maybe Tyler can help.
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post #4509 of 4667 Old 08-23-2017, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
To isolate the issue, for testing use the Sony Player and set it's output to native resolution with YCbCr output.

Be sure you are currently at Movie mode and what the current HDMI input you use from the TV don't have any PC icon as active or named (not sure if Sony has these labels, like LG or Samsung..where it's enabling their PC mode)

Disable @ movie mode all enhancements and display the contrast and brightness patterns, post here what numbers of bars you see flashing without any adjustment from you side and what is happening when you do adjustment. Post all results here.
What does this mean?

HDMI input is HDMI3. The player is a Sony UBP-X800 and supports HDR. The TV input is set to Enhanced Mode which allows HDR. The player is configured to output Native Resolution and I do see 720p as the resolution when I look in the information pane.

What is it that I am disabling? I am using Custom picture settings for everything but find that the settings do the same thing even if using Cinema Home, Cinema Pro, Standard, or pretty much anything else.
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post #4510 of 4667 Old 08-23-2017, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
What does this mean?

HDMI input is HDMI3. The player is a Sony UBP-X800 and supports HDR. The TV input is set to Enhanced Mode which allows HDR. The player is configured to output Native Resolution and I do see 720p as the resolution when I look in the information pane.

What is it that I am disabling? I am using Custom picture settings for everything but find that the settings do the same thing even if using Cinema Home, Cinema Pro, Standard, or pretty much anything else.
AVSHD is SDR, does it say SDR when you playback it from the Sony? Also how you burned the AVSHD, it's AVCHD format so it has to display to you 1080p24 patterns (encoded at that resolution) and not 720p you see.

Enhancements are: Reality Creation, Noise Reduction, MPEG Noise Reduction, Dot Noise Reduction, Noise Filtering, Detail Enhancer, Edge Enhancer, Super Resolution, Digital Clear View, Live Color, Dynamic Color or Color Enhancer etc.

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post #4511 of 4667 Old 08-23-2017, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
AVSHD is SDR, does it say SDR when you playback it from the Sony? Also how you burned the AVSHD, it's AVCHD format so it has to display to you 1080p24 patterns (encoded at that resolution) and not 720p you see.

Enhancements are: Reality Creation, Noise Reduction, MPEG Noise Reduction, Dot Noise Reduction, Noise Filtering, Detail Enhancer, Edge Enhancer, Super Resolution, Digital Clear View, Live Color, Dynamic Color or Color Enhancer etc.
With the Sony sets, it will say HDR if it's HDR. Otherwise, it shows nothing and that means SDR.

The information at the beginning of this thread says you can burn the image to a standard DVD. So, it's only ever going to show 720p since I don't have a way to burn it to BluRay. So, how do I get 1080 content from 720 media?

As far as the enhancements, I have all of that junk turned off.
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post #4512 of 4667 Old 08-23-2017, 03:36 PM
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With the Sony sets, it will say HDR if it's HDR. Otherwise, it shows nothing and that means SDR.

The information at the beginning of this thread says you can burn the image to a standard DVD. So, it's only ever going to show 720p since I don't have a way to burn it to BluRay. So, how do I get 1080 content from 720 media?

As far as the enhancements, I have all of that junk turned off.
There enhancements which converting SDR to HDR, this is why I asked.

You can use an empty DVD, but it will not DVD format, you are using DVD media only....

AVCHD format uses a disc structure designed for Blu-ray (with some limitations to navigation and bitrate...11Mbit max), you will get 1080p24 (23.976) when you will playback that dvd disc.

Install ImgBurn and burn it from there.

So your Sony will read it as BD but using it's Red laser and not the Blue.

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post #4513 of 4667 Old 08-23-2017, 03:38 PM
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There enhancements which converting SDR to HDR, this is why I asked.

You can use an empty DVD, but it will not DVD format, you are using DVD media only....

AVCHD format uses a disc structure designed for Blu-ray (with some limitations to navigation and bitrate...11Mbit max), you will get 1080p24 (23.976) when you will playback that dvd disc.

Install ImgBurn and burn it from there.

So your Sony will read it as BD but using it's Red laser and not the Blue.
Not an option.

I can either burn it using my Mac or a Linux machine. Windows isn't available for disc burning. Other methods?
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post #4514 of 4667 Old 08-23-2017, 03:41 PM
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Not an option.

I can either burn it using my Mac or a Linux machine. Windows isn't available for disc burning. Other methods?
I have idea for Mac/Linux, you need a burning software which will not convert that ISO to DVD, you need to burn it as it, AVCHD format.

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post #4515 of 4667 Old 08-23-2017, 03:46 PM
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Not an option.

I can either burn it using my Mac or a Linux machine. Windows isn't available for disc burning. Other methods?
You need to set UDF file system, UDF revision 2.50, put the CERTIFICATE and BDMV folders in the root, and then burn the disc.

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post #4516 of 4667 Old 08-23-2017, 03:58 PM
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You need to set UDF file system, UDF revision 2.50, put the CERTIFICATE and BDMV folders in the root, and then burn the disc.
There HAS to be another way to get this content to play on my TV without jumping through all of those hoops.
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post #4517 of 4667 Old 08-23-2017, 04:07 PM
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There HAS to be another way to get this content to play on my TV without jumping through all of those hoops.
If you manage to get 1080p24 (at your TV) by playing the AVSHD while your player outputs YCbCr colorspace at native resolution, then you will be able to see the patterns with the correct way, as encoded.

I think I have send you all the required info.

It's up to you what to do.

There no official AVSHD support since project has been discontinued.

Find a PC, install ImgBurn, right click the ISO file and burn it, it will apply all the correct settings.

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post #4518 of 4667 Old 08-24-2017, 09:31 PM
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Probably a dumb question, but thought I'd ask anyways:

Is anyone willing to burn a Blu-Ray (the HDMV burned onto BD-RE or BD-R) of the AVS HD 709 disc and mail it to me? I would certainly be willing to pay. Or perhaps someone who doesn't use their disc anymore and wants to sell it?

Reason I'm asking is b/c I don't have access to a Blu-Ray burner, and I have the AVCHD version burned onto DVD. It will not play on my Panasonic BD player at 1080p/24p - it only plays at 1080p/60. So I can't really calibrate my tv using its 96hZ mode for 1080p/24p Blu-ray viewing. I love that the AVS 709 disc has color windows for 75% saturation sweeps, but I need them to display at 24p for my calibration. And without a BD version of the disc, I am out of luck.
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post #4519 of 4667 Old 08-25-2017, 06:38 AM
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Probably a dumb question, but thought I'd ask anyways:

Is anyone willing to burn a Blu-Ray (the HDMV burned onto BD-RE or BD-R) of the AVS HD 709 disc and mail it to me? I would certainly be willing to pay. Or perhaps someone who doesn't use their disc anymore and wants to sell it?

Reason I'm asking is b/c I don't have access to a Blu-Ray burner, and I have the AVCHD version burned onto DVD. It will not play on my Panasonic BD player at 1080p/24p - it only plays at 1080p/60. So I can't really calibrate my tv using its 96hZ mode for 1080p/24p Blu-ray viewing. I love that the AVS 709 disc has color windows for 75% saturation sweeps, but I need them to display at 24p for my calibration. And without a BD version of the disc, I am out of luck.
Hi, since you will use CalMAN, AVSHD don't have correct Grayscale patterns which matching the RGB triplets CalMAN's Engine is expecting, as you see to the picture below; it's grayscale RGB Triplets are not matching exact the levels the CalMAN's Engine expects for it's calculations. When you will use it to perform Grayscale calibration your gamma will be slight off to the mid/low-end range because AVSHD's Grayscale patterns are rounding fractional RGB codes down to the nearest integer. DVE disk is doing the exact same thing, so it's not 100% accurate for Grayscale with CalMAN also.



The difference you will have @ gamma calculations for:

5% Gray = -19.22% Luminance error
10% Gray = -9.23% Luminance error
15% Gray = -5.82% Luminance error
20% Gray = -4.10% Luminance error
25% Gray = 3.07% Luminance error
30% Gray = 2.39% Luminance error
35% Gray = 1.90 % Luminance error
40% Gray = 1.53 % Luminance error

You will not have these errors if you use a calibration disk that matches 100% the RGB triplets of CalMAN's Engine.

But except that, AVSHD is a tool that anyone must have to his tools for other things, like a lot of useful patterns that is including.

Also using AVSHD disk for Color Gamut calibration you have 2 options: 75% Color (which has 100% Saturation with 75% Luminance) or 100% Color (which has 100% Saturation with 100% Luminance)

There is no 75% Saturation with 75% Luminance Patterns in AVSHD disk, no ColorChecker SG, ColorChecker SG Fleshtones, ColorChecker Classic, Luminance runs etc...

If you need accurate patterns which matching the RGB targets CalMAN Engine is expecting (to calculate the dE properly) from you to display, see for a calibration disk which designed based to excact targets of CalMAN's color engine.

BTW, there issues with HCFR also, from the AVSHD Saturation Sweeps; using 75% Saturation with 100% Stimulus; the patterns are not matching the RGB Triplets of HCFR engine, they are slight different.

For Example:

AVSHD 50% Red Saturation Pattern has RGB Triplet 190.95.95 but HCFR's Color Engine needs/calculates errors from RGB Triplet 191.96.96, it's 0.42 dE2000 error.

AVSHD 75% Magenta Saturation Pattern has RGB Triplet 203.100.203 but HCFR's Color Engine needs/calculates errors from RGB Triplet 202.99.202, it's 0.36 dE2000 error.
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post #4520 of 4667 Old 08-25-2017, 07:22 AM
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Hi, since you will use CalMAN,
Can you please explain how you arrived at this from the post that was quoted? The AVCHD disc can't be burned to a standard DVD unless you throw money at Microsoft (can't be done easily on Mac or Linux), so I'm considering getting a BluRay version burned. But, your comment above makes me wonder whether that would apply to me or not since I don't see anything spelled out in the quoted post about using CalMAN as you've mentioned.
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post #4521 of 4667 Old 08-25-2017, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
Can you please explain how you arrived at this from the post that was quoted? The AVCHD disc can't be burned to a standard DVD unless you throw money at Microsoft (can't be done easily on Mac or Linux), so I'm considering getting a BluRay version burned. But, your comment above makes me wonder whether that would apply to me or not since I don't see anything spelled out in the quoted post about using CalMAN as you've mentioned.
The same user I quoted here talking about AVSHD, posted this a few minutes earlier here (so he will use CalMAN): https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post54689554

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowbizPizza View Post
1) Is it ok to use with Calman? (I think someone mentioned it was optimized for use with Chomapure)
AVSHD can be burned to DVD media (AVCHD format) if you only know how to burn it, I have posted to you above what you have to configure if your burning software don't have any preset ready configured for AVCHD format, so you burn only the files and select the settings above to the disk file format settings, from your player to see it correctly as AVCHD and play it as 1080p24.



About the issue I talked, a user of HCFR has an option to HCFR preferences to fix that level mismatch.

The ''normal rounding' (untick the round down) is for calibration disks designed for HCFR or ChromaPure so HCFR will work normally like how it's been programmed (RGB triplets of HCFR are based to same RGB triplets of ChromaPure's engine).

But you should 'use round down' for AVSHD and DVE disks because these disks are not matching exactly the levels that HCFR (and ChromaPure) engine's is expecting for the grayscale measurements/dE calculations.

ChromaPure/CalMAN...don't have that 'round down' option to their settings.

So HCFR users with AVSHD/DVE disks will not have 100% exact match for the half of the grayscale measurements if they don't tick the 'use round down'.

This info is for those who will use a meter to calibrate.........if you don't have a meter then you will never use that Grayscale patches because you can't do adjustments by the eye.

About the color errors I posted, it's for those who will use meter also, I have used a reference signal analyser; the DVDO AVLab TPG Test Pattern Generator where it can display the digital levels of any selected pixel I move it's cursor and also a software which examines the values of a YUV or RGB video data (so I cheched the M2TS or MP4 file of that patch)

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post #4522 of 4667 Old 08-25-2017, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The same user I quoted here talking about AVSHD, posted this a few minutes earlier here (so he will use CalMAN): https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post54689554
Isn't that an entirely different DISC, though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
AVSHD can be burned to DVD media (AVCHD format) if you only know how to burn it, I have posted to you above what you have to configure if your burning software don't have any preset ready configured for AVCHD format, so you burn only the files and select the settings above to the disk file format settings, from your player to see it correctly as AVCHD and play it as 1080p24.



About the issue I talked, a user of HCFR has an option to HCFR preferences to fix that level mismatch.

The ''normal rounding' (untick the round down) is for calibration disks designed for HCFR or ChromaPure so HCFR will work normally like how it's been programmed (RGB triplets of HCFR are based to same RGB triplets of ChromaPure's engine).

But you should 'use round down' for AVSHD and DVE disks because these disks are not matching exactly the levels that HCFR (and ChromaPure) engine's is expecting for the grayscale measurements/dE calculations.

ChromaPure/CalMAN...don't have that 'round down' option to their settings.

So HCFR users with AVSHD/DVE disks will not have 100% exact match for the half of the grayscale measurements if they don't tick the 'use round down'.

This info is for those who will use a meter to calibrate.........if you don't have a meter then you will never use that Grayscale patches because you can't do adjustments by the eye.

About the color errors I posted, it's for those who will use meter also, I have used a reference signal analyser; the DVDO AVLab TPG Test Pattern Generator where it can display the digital levels of any selected pixel I move it's cursor and also a software which examines the values of a YUV or RGB video data (so I cheched the M2TS or MP4 file of that patch)
What you had told me was how to do it in Windows, and then the various hoops I would have to jump through in order to do it with Mac or Linux. Seems a bit extreme and that there should be another way to play 1080 content besides burning AVCHD or BluRay format. Seems to be no way to play these via USB, DLNA, or similar in order to get the content on the screen at the correct resolution.
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post #4523 of 4667 Old 08-25-2017, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
Isn't that an entirely different DISC, though?
Yes, it's different disc, but he asked for AVSHD disc here, so this means that he had plans to use CalMAN with AVSHD, got it?

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post #4524 of 4667 Old 08-25-2017, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Yes, it's different disc, but he asked for AVSHD disc here, so this means that he had plans to use CalMAN with AVSHD, got it?
No. I'll just give up now on trying to understand this stuff.
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post #4525 of 4667 Old 08-28-2017, 11:46 PM
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Wondering if there are any 4KUHD Color Bars or Color Clipping tests available?
I tried some that I think were not BT.2020.
With the above mentioned tools,Color Bars are a tiny bit off, and green clipping is a dog with fleas.

Attempting to calibrate 4kUHD, Path is Dune Solo 4K to Sony 2015 XBR-55X850C.
Apologies if this is not the right thread.
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post #4526 of 4667 Old 08-29-2017, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LD-838D View Post
Wondering if there are any 4KUHD Color Bars or Color Clipping tests available?
I tried some that I think were not BT.2020.
With the above mentioned tools,Color Bars are a tiny bit off, and green clipping is a dog with fleas.

Attempting to calibrate 4kUHD, Path is Dune Solo 4K to Sony 2015 XBR-55X850C.
Apologies if this is not the right thread.
Hi, there is no content available for SDR 4K REC.2020, everything @ SDR 4K is REC.709, so you can use these patterns of AVSHD without problem.

Dune Player's are suffering for that issue of color clipping, it's something it can't be fixed, it's hardware issue (not for all models).

What your Dune video output colorspace you are using? YCbCr or RGB-Video?

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post #4527 of 4667 Old 08-29-2017, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
...
Also using AVSHD disk for Color Gamut calibration you have 2 options: 75% Color (which has 100% Saturation with 75% Luminance) or 100% Color (which has 100% Saturation with 100% Luminance)

There is no 75% Saturation with 75% Luminance Patterns in AVSHD disk, no ColorChecker SG, ColorChecker SG Fleshtones, ColorChecker Classic, Luminance runs etc...
...
So using HCFR with references set to 75% color, is the AVSHD pattern correct, or is it expecting 75% saturation?
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post #4528 of 4667 Old 08-29-2017, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
So using HCFR with references set to 75% color, is the AVSHD pattern correct, or is it expecting 75% saturation?
Hi, if you mean settings @ HCFR Preferencies, Colorspace REC.709 75%/75%, then it's expecting 75% Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level, these patterns are not available in AVSHD.

The Color 75% AVSHD has means 100% Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level.

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post #4529 of 4667 Old 08-29-2017, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, if you mean settings @ HCFR Preferencies, Colorspace REC.709 75%/75%, then it's expecting 75% Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level, these patterns are not available in AVSHD.

The Color 75% AVSHD has means 100% Saturation with 75% Stimulus Level.
Well, I guess the CMS adjustments I did a few weeks ago are wrong, but at least it taught me how my CMS works. Thanks!

Guess I'll have to do it again with Rec.709 100%/100%
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post #4530 of 4667 Old 08-29-2017, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Arm View Post
Well, I guess the CMS adjustments I did a few weeks ago are wrong, but at least it taught me how my CMS works. Thanks!

Guess I'll have to do it again with Rec.709 100%/100%
I think it's recommended to use 100% Saturation/75% stimulus.

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