AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 156 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4651 of 4662 Old 05-14-2019, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machavez00 View Post
It looks like some created an ATV app with the files, Calibr8
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cali...061996443?mt=8
Are they allowed to do that? Hope they have credited the authors etc.

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post #4652 of 4662 Old 05-15-2019, 02:35 PM
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Question that I saw posted above. For the basic black level screen "set black level to lowest setting where 17-25 flash" I can adjust to where I can hardly see 17 flash (25 seems to be the same level), but on the next screen (with black and white bars) the black bars are not flashing at all whilst the white bars are flashing. What screen should I based the black level on?

Sony vpl-hw40es projector
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post #4653 of 4662 Old 05-15-2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmidgitd View Post
Question that I saw posted above. For the basic black level screen "set black level to lowest setting where 17-25 flash" I can adjust to where I can hardly see 17 flash (25 seems to be the same level), but on the next screen (with black and white bars) the black bars are not flashing at all whilst the white bars are flashing. What screen should I based the black level on?



Sony vpl-hw40es projector


The first pluge pattern .


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post #4654 of 4662 Old 05-15-2019, 03:53 PM
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I don't agree with that instruction anyway - recent discussion on the calibration threads brought out the issue that 17 is incredibly dark. You're only supposed to be able to "just about see something" in a pitch black room if there isn't anything too bright elsewhere on the screen. So if your pupils are open and adjusted correctly for brighter values flashing at the same time, they'll wash out 17.
In other words, if you CAN see 17 on that screen, it's actually too bright
You need a 10% pattern of 17, on a full black screen really.
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post #4655 of 4662 Old 05-15-2019, 05:04 PM
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Has anyone had problems with the AVCHD version skipping chapters?

e.g. in the HCFR "10% Grayscale" fields folder, I only have 20% steps.

The MP4 version I use in my HTPC has the 10% chapters/steps.
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post #4656 of 4662 Old 05-15-2019, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
The first pluge pattern .


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Thank you. That's what I was thinking but I wanted to ask the experts. 👍
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post #4657 of 4662 Old 05-17-2019, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmidgitd View Post
Question that I saw posted above. For the basic black level screen "set black level to lowest setting where 17-25 flash" I can adjust to where I can hardly see 17 flash (25 seems to be the same level), but on the next screen (with black and white bars) the black bars are not flashing at all whilst the white bars are flashing. What screen should I based the black level on?

Sony vpl-hw40es projector

I'd suggest maybe asking someone that is familiar with your projector. I've had a couple SXRD TVs, and there it's a combination of black-level (brightness) and the iris control (room lighting also comes into play with TVs). LCD TVs are sort of similar to the old SXRD TVs, with it being a combination of black-level, backlight, and maybe a gamma control. Basically on those displays the first pattern can determine that no information is lost due to the black-level setting, and then the iris or backlight or gamma can satisfy the second condition of how the display comes out of black with the room lighting. It seems like your projector doesn't have an iris like the old TVs, and it has brightness, gamma, and lamp control settings listed in the manual. The intended end result is likely a combination of those three settings, but I'm not familiar with the projector to say exactly how it functions.


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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
In other words, if you CAN see 17 on that screen, it's actually too bright

On the displays I followed people often had a tendency to set black-level too low and cut off information above 16, which is not really ideal. The ideal is to pass all information above 16 and also come out of black extremely slowly. Being able to distinguish somewhere around 2% or 4% in the given room lighting were basically the offered descriptions from the commercial patterns when this was created. Those patterns only had bars somewhere around 2% or 4% above black, so people could easily cut off everything under the first or second video level in the pattern and think they had it right according to the instructions. Completely cutting off information below 2% or 4% is not really ideal, but also the intent is not to make 17 obvious in a standard viewing environment. In the real world some displays simply can't hit both ideals of displaying levels above black and also coming out of black very slowly, so there can be some judgment calls to be made around what exactly to choose, hopefully with some understanding of how a particular display tends to operate.

Last edited by alluringreality; 05-17-2019 at 03:40 PM.
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post #4658 of 4662 Old 05-17-2019, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post
On the displays I followed people often had a tendency to set black-level too low and cut off information above 16, which is not really ideal. The ideal is to pass all information above 16 and also come out of black extremely slowly. Being able to distinguish somewhere around 2% or 4% in the given room lighting were basically the offered descriptions from the commercial patterns when this was created. Those patterns only had bars somewhere around 2% or 4% above black, so people could easily cut off everything under the first or second video level in the pattern and think they had it right according to the instructions. Completely cutting off information below 2% or 4% is not really ideal, but also the intent is not to make 17 obvious in a standard viewing environment. In the real world some displays simply can't hit both ideals of displaying levels above black and also coming out of black very slowly, so there can be some judgment calls to be made around what exactly to choose, hopefully with some understanding of how a particular display tends to operate.
Level 17 is very, very dark. With gamma 2.2, Level 17 will be "below black" unless your TV has a contrast ratio > 140K:1; with gamma 2.4 that increases to 410K:1. If you use the Brightness control to "make level 17 visible", there's a good chance that the level 16 itself is lifted above black.

I personally would adjust Brightness to the highest setting that does not lift black level. Level 17 may or may not be "visible", but I would just let it follow the gamma curve without artificially boosting it.
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post #4659 of 4662 Old 05-20-2019, 09:26 AM
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Of course a lot depends on how linear your display is with the grayscale. In my Samsung 75Q9FN I set calibration so 17 in HDMV's Black Clipping is barely visible in (pretty much) total darkness, but I get some very mild black crush noticeable in rare instances, e.g. original Mary Poppins from Disney, when she first arrives and all other applicants are getting blown away their black coats actually have some detail if you push the Brightness up.
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post #4660 of 4662 Old 05-20-2019, 02:37 PM
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Heh, I had the cal files burned to a dvd. It did play on my PS3, but I think a firmware update changed that. I have a Pioneer Blu-ray burner now so I downloaded the avchd iso and burned it to BD disc. Runs on the PS3 now. I ran the cal patterns and left the settings where they were; At 50 for color, brightness, and contrast. Settings for the PS3 were: HDMI at auto (rgb or ypbr), super white set to on.

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post #4661 of 4662 Old 09-18-2019, 07:34 AM
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Are there any basic instructions somewhere on how to use these kinds of files? I have no idea on what to do

thanks!
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post #4662 of 4662 Old 09-18-2019, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonclarkccnp View Post
Are there any basic instructions somewhere on how to use these kinds of files? I have no idea on what to do

thanks!
There’s a manual that describes the patterns. They are primarily meant to be used as test patterns for calibrating TVs and projectors in conjunction with a meter (such as the i1 Display Pro). Without a meter you can only do basic adjustments such as Brightness.
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