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post #14911 of 22283 Old 05-06-2014, 06:39 PM
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I hope that their Kinect prediction ends up correct.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-05-06-ps4-to-lead-all-consoles-with-51-million-sold-by-2016-idc

While there are a lot of advocates for that and I respect that, from my perspective, this corrects their last major misstep.
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post #14912 of 22283 Old 05-06-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

I hope that their Kinect prediction ends up correct.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-05-06-ps4-to-lead-all-consoles-with-51-million-sold-by-2016-idc

While there are a lot of advocates for that and I respect that, from my perspective, this corrects their last major misstep.

i will just sit here and wait for all the "why are you posting that, kinect will never be unbundled so i don't know why you are posting that/xb1 wouldn't be next gen without kinect, etc.." posts
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post #14913 of 22283 Old 05-06-2014, 08:31 PM
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i will just sit here and wait for all the "why are you posting that, kinect will never be unbundled so i don't know why you are posting that/xb1 wouldn't be next gen without kinect, etc.." posts

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post #14914 of 22283 Old 05-06-2014, 08:55 PM
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They've always maintained strict control over 3rd party controllers, but even with unique IDs it'd still just mean they'd have to get a license from MS like last gen.

Either way they'd have a real hard time getting people to consider the Xbox ecosystem on PC unless they can play with other Xbox players, so it's going to be a major facepalm if they can't solve the controller problem.

Couldn't the control and id be tied inside the connector that will attach to the device that connects to the computer. That would be supplied by MS and it wouldn't matter which controller is connected to it. Even now, you have to have the wireless receiver for xbox 360 controllersto work. Just make it a little smarter and include the id there.
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post #14915 of 22283 Old 05-06-2014, 09:10 PM
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i will just sit here and wait for all the "why are you posting that, kinect will never be unbundled so i don't know why you are posting that/xb1 wouldn't be next gen without kinect, etc.." posts

If they are serious about the Kinect they will never unbundle it. I personally hope they don't as I use it every day I use the system. Once it is gone, then it will never gain wide acceptance (Kinect) and I will consider the One a weaker cousin to the ps4. Not spec wise but in overall ability. Back to PC gaming for me. The better idea to me would be for them to include it free and have a better selling point against Sony. Wouldn't everyone accept it if it is free. The only way they will take over here in US is if the price is better because starting this Christmas the 2nd generation of buyers will be starting to buy and they look at price over specs. A lower price and free Kinect might even give them a chance in Europe. Not sure how much, if any, loss on each system would happen by then. Again, my opinion only and based on no facts.
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post #14916 of 22283 Old 05-06-2014, 09:18 PM
 
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I don't agree with any Kinect negativity at all. It makes no sense to me.

Its worth every penny over and above the competition which is pretty much zero considering console bundle sales and pack-in games. Sure, our PCs, TVs, Tablets, Phones, etc. all have built in cameras now and it's overkill but the ease of access, and integration to actual applications - voice activated and on the big screen, from the couch no less, is the key. I think it's just slightly ahead of its time possibly. Look at Twitch. Who knew people would be so interested in watching other people play video games. Next thing we know, people will actually Skype. I hope not!

The X1 and WiiU have been the only next gen experiences for me so far. They are not perfect, there are major flaws, but at least they tried something different. There is just more of the same from that other console right now after what seems like a lifetime of "needing" that console for DVD, then Blu-Ray, and now.... not sure yet. We all bought one or all of them in the interest of A/V access and quality while we were having fun and being social thanks to Xbox Live. It just doesn't seem to make as much sense anymore to own the other console but we all will eventually at some point.

Anyone slightly interested in A/V (everyone on this site) should be somewhat intrigued by never having to touch a remote again at minimum. The Kinect does that, and yes, it really does work most of the time. Plus, it keeps the kids happy and adults somewhat active on occasion. Lack of actual games is the only issue right now but the A/V aspects alone more than make up for it.
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post #14917 of 22283 Old 05-06-2014, 10:50 PM
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(Heavy sigh). I like my Kinect--I use it every time I use the console, though I only use XB1 to play games and only one of the XB1 games that I play uses it (Kinect Sports). I like my Xbox 360's Kinect and use it every time that I fire the 360 up which is at least as often as the XB1, since I use Rocksmith 2014 and still play Rock Band 3 (I also have a big stack of 360 games bought on sale to play through). Rocksmith has Kinect voice commands. They sold 30 million of them and 127 Xbox 360 games use it, even though every Xbox 360 owner doesn't have one.

However, I'm sure that there are more than a few people who bought an XB1 who don't use the Kinect and have never plugged it in. There are members of these forums who've owned an XB1 since launch but can't use the Kinect because their console is located too far from their screen and there's no long Kinect cable available. Those people are still enjoying their XB1. People who'd rather not use it shouldn't be forced to pay for it. It's a great thing to be able to say "Xbox, go to this-game/that-app" without navigating to a list of games or apps and scrolling through to find it, but doing it the old way still works.

I bought an Xbox One and haven't bought a PS4 yet because there were launch exclusives that I wanted to play on Xbox One but none for PS4. Since I don't play MP shooters, there's still nothing that I want to play on PS4 (I haven't played The Last of Us yet and may buy one when TLoU Remastered hits).
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post #14918 of 22283 Old 05-06-2014, 11:39 PM
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I was poking around to see if any analyst had projected how many Kinect-less Xbox Ones would be sold if such a SKU existed and ran across "Xbox One owners: Kinect is still spying on everything you say...". It's about people not realizing that Kinect voice-chat is on during multiplayer games biggrin.gif.

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post #14919 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 12:33 AM
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I wonder if these analysts saying kinect is gone the same ones in the nineties who said Apple was dead and commodore business machines would rule the world.
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post #14920 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbe View Post

Couldn't the control and id be tied inside the connector that will attach to the device that connects to the computer. That would be supplied by MS and it wouldn't matter which controller is connected to it. Even now, you have to have the wireless receiver for xbox 360 controllersto work. Just make it a little smarter and include the id there.

That's the point though. They want it to matter which controller is connected to it.

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post #14921 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 04:56 AM
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I think Microsoft is doing the smart thing and sticking to there guns on the kinect. If they are able to get crossplatform gaming and the ability to play high end games on multiple lower spec hardware (ie windows phone, surface, pc, xbox one) using cloud and directx 12, no one will care about the kinect being included.
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post #14922 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 05:18 AM
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I don't agree with any Kinect negativity at all. It makes no sense to me.

Its worth every penny over and above the competition which is pretty much zero considering console bundle sales and pack-in games. Sure, our PCs, TVs, Tablets, Phones, etc. all have built in cameras now and it's overkill but the ease of access, and integration to actual applications - voice activated and on the big screen, from the couch no less, is the key. I think it's just slightly ahead of its time possibly. Look at Twitch. Who knew people would be so interested in watching other people play video games. Next thing we know, people will actually Skype. I hope not!

The X1 and WiiU have been the only next gen experiences for me so far. They are not perfect, there are major flaws, but at least they tried something different. There is just more of the same from that other console right now after what seems like a lifetime of "needing" that console for DVD, then Blu-Ray, and now.... not sure yet. We all bought one or all of them in the interest of A/V access and quality while we were having fun and being social thanks to Xbox Live. It just doesn't seem to make as much sense anymore to own the other console but we all will eventually at some point.

Anyone slightly interested in A/V (everyone on this site) should be somewhat intrigued by never having to touch a remote again at minimum. The Kinect does that, and yes, it really does work most of the time. Plus, it keeps the kids happy and adults somewhat active on occasion. Lack of actual games is the only issue right now but the A/V aspects alone more than make up for it.

Why do you need a camera for that? Wouldn't a microphone built into the console achieve the same thing? You do realize that "next-gen" camera doesn't do anything yet, other than utilize the microphone built into it. Voice commands might be the future, but it's not going to be the future if it's tied to a locked eco-system ala microsoft/xbox/XBL.

I'm cool with MS and Nintendo doing these out of the box ideas, but they have to nail gaming first and prioritize it first because these are gaming consoles. It makes sense to own that "other console" because it's hands-down the best performer and because of it's exclusive library of titles now or upcoming.

It all comes down to priority I guess. I look to home automation devices for home automation. I'll look to media players for playing media (the Xbox, PS4, Wii, will never do what my popcorn hour or Dune does). I look to gaming consoles for gaming because I don't expect my smart thermostat or refrigerator to start releasing AAA games on it.

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Lack of actual games is the only issue right now but the A/V aspects alone more than make up for it.
it just sounds like games are a secondary priority to you, and that's fine, but understand for most, games are checkbox number 1 for a gaming console.

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post #14923 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 05:38 AM
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I think Microsoft is doing the smart thing and sticking to there guns on the kinect. If they are able to get crossplatform gaming and the ability to play high end games on multiple lower spec hardware (ie windows phone, surface, pc, xbox one) using cloud and directx 12, no one will care about the kinect being included.

Yep, because in that case anyone who doesn't want kinect can buy an Xbox without kinect.

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post #14924 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 05:50 AM
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Yep, because in that case anyone who doesn't want kinect can buy an Xbox without kinect.

Well, I'd figure include the kinect because price point won't matter, so no one will care about kinectless at that point, just give me an xbox one.
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post #14925 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 06:30 AM
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Take the kinect out of the picture and I may look at buying the XBOXOne, until then I have no interest in one. Just my own opinion.
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post #14926 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 08:10 AM
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Just to provide the counter point, I point the Xbox One because of Kinect. My primary uses are Xbox Fitness and Kinect Sports Rivals.
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post #14927 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 08:23 AM
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Nutjitsu comes out for the Xbox One on May 8 for $6.49.
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post #14929 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 10:12 AM
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Take the kinect out of the picture and I may look at buying the XBOXOne, until then I have no interest in one. Just my own opinion.
And this is the primary reason why if I were Microsoft I wouldn't unbundle Kinect. I see so many "If X does what I want I might do Y" well a few million people already did Y so why tick them off for someone who might buy an Xbox One which they have no interest in otherwise. Not singling you out but I've seen these posts so many times and usually repeatedly from the same posters at different forums. I honestly see more damage being done with them about facing on their plan, the plan that was sold to the buyers these past few months. I don't think they would sell many new xbox one's because I can tell you game stop and ebay would be flooded with used xbox one's.
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post #14930 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 10:19 AM
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Take the kinect out of the picture and I may look at buying the XBOXOne, until then I have no interest in one. Just my own opinion.

You have every right to your own opinion. But I think it is funny the amount of disdain for the Kinect. I don't play Kinect Rivals or anything and rarely use the camera functionality, but it is the voice commands that make it a game changer. Snapping the party app, pausing movies, and playing, etc all via voice. I can't live without it now.
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post #14931 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 10:20 AM
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And this is the primary reason why if I were Microsoft I wouldn't unbundle Kinect. I see so many "If X does what I want I might do Y" well a few million people already did Y so why tick them off for someone who might buy an Xbox One which they have no interest in otherwise. Not singling you out but I've seen these posts so many times and usually repeatedly from the same posters at different forums. I honestly see more damage being done with them about facing on their plan, the plan that was sold to the buyers these past few months. I don't think they would sell many new xbox one's because I can tell you game stop and ebay would be flooded with used xbox one's.

So if MS unbundled kinect, you'd sell your Xbox? For what?
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post #14932 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 10:21 AM
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You can stream the NFL draft on the NFL App through the Xbox One.

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post #14933 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 10:40 AM
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So if MS unbundled kinect, you'd sell your Xbox? For what?
I never said that I would sell my xbox but now that you ask I would definitely be considering it. I've been around long enough to see certain signs. If they unbundled the Kinect it's integration would be slowed and or killed. Kinect's potential was a major draw for me along with it's other features. Even if not one developer decides to use it if Microsoft stands by it then I'll be there and I can tip my hat to them that they tried. But if they were to unbundle it at that point it's just another console and at THAT point I'd rather just use those dollars and SLI my PC setup which was exactly what I was going to do in the first place.

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post #14934 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 11:34 AM
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You have every right to your own opinion. But I think it is funny the amount of disdain for the Kinect. I don't play Kinect Rivals or anything and rarely use the camera functionality, but it is the voice commands that make it a game changer. Snapping the party app, pausing movies, and playing, etc all via voice. I can't live without it now.

A game changer for you, not me. We are of different opinions and that is fine.
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post #14935 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 11:54 AM
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So if MS unbundled kinect, you'd sell your Xbox? For what?

My question has to be what does MS gain by un-bundling it? If they knock off $100 they're still a less powerful system than the PS4 at the same price. This doesn't count on Sony not doing the same to their system thus still keeping the Xbox more expensive. They'd have to go at least $150 to gain any real advantage and I just can't see them doing it. I can see them biting the bullet and dropping to $400 with Kinect. Sony still might undercut them but at least they have a unique draw to their system and it's less expensive now. I'd be highly surprised to see them un-bundle Kinect. What they need to do is really play to it's advantages (voice control) and come up with a killer app that uses it. Until they do the controversy will continue.

Also, un-bundling Kinect has other negative consequences. It's the IR sensor for their controllers (for indentification) and universal remotes. They'd have to add a dongle or integrate it into the actual system to make up for it's loss. If you think this Kinect issue is a thorny one now imagine had they stuck to their guns and made it mandatory to even use the One. That would have been suicide. As it is there's nothing wrong with it aside from it making the system too expensive and there being no killer apps for it. The first is easily fixable (although it might put them back into the hole they're trying to get the platform out of). The second isn't so easily fixable. It sucks too because I like the Kinect and frankly if it had been bundled with the 360 from the get-go instead of 3 or 4 years into it's life this wouldn't be an issue. It wouldn't be seen as an unnecessary accessory and who knows, the software environment might be much more mature. That's the gamble they take when bundling what was once an accessory into the next system. People will forever see it as unnecessary.

MS needs to stay the course with it and not get sidetracked by people complaining that most likely won't ever buy an Xbox anyway. Don't take it away, give us a reason to think it's necessary.
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post #14936 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 12:11 PM
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My question has to be what does MS gain by un-bundling it? If they knock off $100 they're still a less powerful system than the PS4 at the same price. This doesn't count on Sony not doing the same to their system thus still keeping the Xbox more expensive. They'd have to go at least $150 to gain any real advantage and I just can't see them doing it. I can see them biting the bullet and dropping to $400 with Kinect. Sony still might undercut them but at least they have a unique draw to their system and it's less expensive now. I'd be highly surprised to see them un-bundle Kinect. What they need to do is really play to it's advantages (voice control) and come up with a killer app that uses it. Until they do the controversy will continue.

Also, un-bundling Kinect has other negative consequences. It's the IR sensor for their controllers (for indentification) and universal remotes. They'd have to add a dongle or integrate it into the actual system to make up for it's loss. If you think this Kinect issue is a thorny one now imagine had they stuck to their guns and made it mandatory to even use the One. That would have been suicide. As it is there's nothing wrong with it aside from it making the system too expensive and there being no killer apps for it. The first is easily fixable (although it might put them back into the hole they're trying to get the platform out of). The second isn't so easily fixable. It sucks too because I like the Kinect and frankly if it had been bundled with the 360 from the get-go instead of 3 or 4 years into it's life this wouldn't be an issue. It wouldn't be seen as an unnecessary accessory and who knows, the software environment might be much more mature. That's the gamble they take when bundling what was once an accessory into the next system. People will forever see it as unnecessary.

MS needs to stay the course with it and not get sidetracked by people complaining that most likely won't ever buy an Xbox anyway. Don't take it away, give us a reason to think it's necessary.

They certainly could do a lot more to justify it's existence. But if they follow through on the PC/Xbox merge, I think there's a good chance they never unbundle it from the official Xboxes, leaving it to other OEMs to build kinectless xboxes. It would make some sense to leave it in as part of the reference model.

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post #14937 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 12:28 PM
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They certainly could do a lot more to justify it's existence. But if they follow through on the PC/Xbox merge, I think there's a good chance they never unbundle it from the official Xboxes, leaving it to other OEMs to build kinectless xboxes. It would make some sense to leave it in as part of the reference model.

True. As a reference design you know it is always present and can account for it. Giving OEMs a choice to bundle or not doesn't take away from the advantage of always having it while giving cheaper options to people not wanting to spend to get it. For right now I still think they just need to drop the price and eat the loss and make it up with services as that's the easier short term solution. E3 will definitely be interesting this year, that's for sure.
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post #14938 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by totalownership View Post

I never said that I would sell my xbox but now that you ask I would definitely be considering it. I've been around long enough to see certain signs. If they unbundled the Kinect it's integration would be slowed and or killed. Kinect's potential was a major draw for me along with it's other features. Even if not one developer decides to use it if Microsoft stands by it then I'll be there and I can tip my hat to them that they tried. But if they were to unbundle it at that point it's just another console and at THAT point I'd rather just use those dollars and SLI my PC setup which was exactly what I was going to do in the first place.

i will never understand this type of thinking, so instead of responding to the market and changing accordingly you would "tip your hat"? So companies/people that admit they were wrong and then change and have success, you don't respect? One of the first lessons in business is to learn to quit early. Guess sony should have made SIXAXIS the core of their console and nintendo should make their next console with another gamepad, etc...


Now before everyone jumps all over me i am NOT SAYING ms is a sinking ship or that kinect is a failure, i am only responding to the post above, nothing more or less...
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post #14939 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Also, un-bundling Kinect has other negative consequences. It's the IR sensor for their controllers (for indentification) and universal remotes.

Controllers, yes; there is an IR sensor on the box for IR remote control, which works without the Kinect plugged in. You need the Kinect as an IR emitter if you want it to control your television and/or AVR. I use a Harmony One and let it control those things, but sometimes control the Xbox itself with IR remote commands. See here in their Media Remote support article, under "Using the Media Remote":
Quote:
Note: The IR receiver is on the console, not the Kinect sensor, which has separate IR cameras and emitters. The Kinect sensor sends IR signals to your device to change channels and volume.

The controller thing only matters if you want to use the camera for player identification. You can use multiple controllers in a game without it being able to see who's holding which controller. It just won't be able to automatically switch if you go away and come back and pick up a different controller.

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post #14940 of 22283 Old 05-07-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

i will never understand this type of thinking, so instead of responding to the market and changing accordingly you would "tip your hat"? So companies/people that admit they were wrong .....
And at that point it's opinion so the rest kinda well.... gotta walk out. Will come back later for further discussion.

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