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post #91 of 169 Old 10-31-2018, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
I'll give it a try just for comparison purposes, but like I said, I'm running all of my video through a Lumagen Radiance Pro, which has its own CMS 3D LUT and does all the tone mapping and color mapping to an HDR BT.2020 color profile. It can convert an SDR signal to an HDR signal, and my Paladin DCR anamorphic lens on my JVC RS4500K increases the brightness and contrast an additional 40%. However, I'll give it a shot. With a 155" screen, maybe I'll see a difference.
I understand you have video processing but to put it plainly, it will throw all of it off because the game is causing the Xbox to do the exact opposite of what your equipment is designed for.

The game title is doing the SDR to HDR conversion and your gear is just seeing a neutered HDR signal with a SDR source rattling around in its container. If anything the game is causing your gear to skip processing since the software is making up fake HDR.
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post #92 of 169 Old 10-31-2018, 02:15 PM
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I understand you have video processing but to put it plainly, it will throw all of it off because the game is causing the Xbox to do the exact opposite of what your equipment is designed for.

The game title is doing the SDR to HDR conversion and your gear is just seeing a neutered HDR signal with a SDR source rattling around in its container. If anything the game is causing your gear to skip processing since the software is making up fake HDR.
Yea, I'm going to try it out. It kinda sucks that Rockstar would do this on a game that has so much potential. From what I understand, they're already pushing the limits of the capabilities of the Xbox One X, and maybe true HDR10 made the game too much to be playable. I must admit, the quality of graphics are outstanding. It looks like something you would normally only see during cut scenes.

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post #93 of 169 Old 10-31-2018, 02:39 PM
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My random unsubstantiated theory is the game's base engine wasn't built with HDR in mind. Rockstar didn't want to release a game at the end of 2018 without HDR, so they did what they could to check that HDR box.
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post #94 of 169 Old 10-31-2018, 04:12 PM
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My random unsubstantiated theory is the game's base engine wasn't built with HDR in mind. Rockstar didn't want to release a game at the end of 2018 without HDR, so they did what they could to check that HDR box.

I agree with you. It’s now starting to make me wonder about games that got an HDR patch after the fact. Games like Last of Us Remastered and Halo MCC come to mind. There’s quite a few games that likely use some type of HDR similar to RDR2.

I’m interested to see if it’s ever addressed. Wouldn’t surprise me if Rockstar just sweeps it under the rug. Heck, it might not even be fixable. Time will tell. But I’m going to enjoy the game now instead of waiting for a patch.

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post #95 of 169 Old 10-31-2018, 11:34 PM
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Is it just me or is 7.1 surround sound not available?
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post #96 of 169 Old 11-01-2018, 03:39 AM
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Yea I'm a little behind the times but yep I freaking KNEW IT. Every single time playing the game I just keep thinking man is this dull looking game. That's what it was the fake HDR. It's the worst HDR I've seen it's just awful. Now that explains it, it's fake and or broken. You can really tell going into that one city at night with all the street lamps. Then think back to playing something like Second Son on ps4 pro. Now that game has HDR and looks insane at night running through city.


I actually came in here to see if you all were talking about this very thing, and then I see video posted stating it's fake. It's a great game otherwise but I just knew something was off with it big time.

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post #97 of 169 Old 11-01-2018, 05:34 AM
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Wish XBOX would allow for enable/disable of HDR on game by game basis. I currently playing RD2 and sometimes FH4 and annoying to have to go back and forth to video settings.
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post #98 of 169 Old 11-01-2018, 09:16 AM
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Wish XBOX would allow for enable/disable of HDR on game by game basis. I currently playing RD2 and sometimes FH4 and annoying to have to go back and forth to video settings.
Same. A couple buddies are playing on the PS4 Pro and they said they had the option to disable the awful SDR to HDR conversion in game, wish the Xbox version did the same.

Suppose at least the PS4 version has one thing going for it.
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post #99 of 169 Old 11-01-2018, 12:11 PM
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Well, this HDR news explains a lot. It's not that I thought the game looked bad because it doesn't, it's one of the best looking games I've ever seen. It just didn't have that extra pop that I was expecting from an HDR image. I've been messing with the in game HDR Calibration setting all the time and finally left it at 100. Whenever I would try a setting above that, night time would look to bright, almost like it was day time. Now I know why. I'll turn HDR off on my X this evening and see what happens.

I really hope this is something R* can address, I'd love to see this game in true HDR.
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post #100 of 169 Old 11-01-2018, 01:06 PM
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What ticks me off is I specifically upgraded my Panel and purchased the Xbox One X in anticipation of this game. For me the results are mixed on my LG C6 OLED. I tend to think it does look a tad better with HDR on but not with the 300 setting. I hate to sound this way but I played for 10 Mins last Friday and knew something was off and I have picked it back up since.

I'm also not all that impressed by the audio either. I hate these games where the audio level is at least 10 steps lower than other games I play.
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post #101 of 169 Old 11-01-2018, 01:28 PM
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I don’t know about you guys but HDR looks a lot better for me especially when it’s at night in the game. HDR off I see everything is too dark lots of black crush, i will keep it on it looks better to my eyes.
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post #102 of 169 Old 11-01-2018, 01:28 PM
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post #103 of 169 Old 11-01-2018, 01:32 PM
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Red Dead Redemption 2

I can't speak about the audio when it comes to my HT because I've been playing with headphones.



This may sound like a dumb question but, am I gimping spatial audio... What in-game audio setting should you use when using Windows Sonic or Dolby Atmos for Headphones (asking for any game, not just RDR2)? 5.1/7.1/Home Theater or Headphones? I always chose "headphones" for games but just thought that maybe that is not what I should be using.

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post #104 of 169 Old 11-01-2018, 04:15 PM
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post #105 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 05:59 AM
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I don’t know about you guys but HDR looks a lot better for me especially when it’s at night in the game. HDR off I see everything is too dark lots of black crush, i will keep it on it looks better to my eyes.

Better is subjective, but the fact is HDR is broken in this game. You’re only hurting your picture quality by playing in HDR. If black crush is an issue, it might be on your display. I’ve had zero issues since switching to SDR and adjusting the in game brightness 2 ticks to the right.

In regards to the audio, it’s one of the best sounding games I’ve ever played, right up there with the Naughty Dog games.
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post #106 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 07:50 AM
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Better is subjective, but the fact is HDR is broken in this game. You’re only hurting your picture quality by playing in HDR. If black crush is an issue, it might be on your display. I’ve had zero issues since switching to SDR and adjusting the in game brightness 2 ticks to the right.

In regards to the audio, it’s one of the best sounding games I’ve ever played, right up there with the Naughty Dog games.
I knew you were going to say that but I'm just going to keep playing in HDR, it looks good to my eyes and developer intended to be this way. Nothing wrong with my display I've been watching HDR for yrs no issues.
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post #107 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 08:11 AM
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I knew you were going to say that but I'm just going to keep playing in HDR, it looks good to my eyes and developer intended to be this way. Nothing wrong with my display I've been watching HDR for yrs no issues.

Intended? More like a last minute attempt at making the game HDR. Have you watched any of the videos to see what’s actually going on when you play in HDR? There is literally no more dynamic range than SDR. Zero.

Everything else about the game is top notch, but they botched the hell out of the HDR on this one. So they intended to simply map an 8-bit SDR signal into a 10-bit HDR signal? Sorry, that’s just not how HDR functions.

You may think it looks good, but it is by no means the way the developer intended it look. I can almost guarantee that.
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post #108 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 08:15 AM
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We don’t know if R* intended it to be this way, could be a bug that they fix down the road. Could be they just took the lazy way out and half-asses HDR. Point is, whether you like it or not, HDR is broken.
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post #109 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 08:17 AM
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Intended? More like a last minute attempt at making the game HDR. Have you watched any of the videos to see what’s actually going on when you play in HDR? There is literally no more dynamic range than SDR. Zero.

Everything else about the game is top notch, but they botched the hell out of the HDR on this one. So they intended to simply map an 8-bit SDR signal into a 10-bit HDR signal? Sorry, that’s just not how HDR functions.

You may think it looks good, but it is by no means the way the developer intended it look. I can almost guarantee that.
Doesn't matter just like you said it's "subjective" and HDR looks good to me turned on. Unless you're developer there's no proof they added HDR last minute just speculation.
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post #110 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 08:19 AM
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Doesn't matter just like you said it's "subjective" and HDR looks good to me turned on. Unless you're developer there's no proof they added HDR last minute just speculation.
Correct, there is no proof they added it last minute but there is plenty of proof that the HDR is absolutely not HDR and just a SDR image rattling around in a HDR container, impacting image quality.
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post #111 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 08:32 AM
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Doesn't matter just like you said it's "subjective" and HDR looks good to me turned on. Unless you're developer there's no proof they added HDR last minute just speculation.

We don’t know for certain that’s the case, but we do have actual data that points to it.

Even though it switches your TV into HDR mode, there is no HDR on RDR2. You get no improved specular highlights. No wide color gamut. Basically none of the benefits of HDR. You get a slider that raises the white point of the SDR signal. Do you get more shadow detail that way? Well, yeah, but you’re also raising the black point, causing other aspects of the image to suffer.

This has all been well documented through Vincent Teoh and Digital Foundry, both working with an individual using tools to reveal peak brightness levels of HDR games. The results don’t lie. Hopefully this will be addressed by Rockstar sooner rather than later.

I’ve said all I can on the topic. I’m moving on at this point. Damn deer won’t skin themselves, and I need to go fishing.
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post #112 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 08:37 AM
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We don’t know for certain that’s the case, but we do have actual data that points to it.

Even though it switches your TV into HDR mode, there is no HDR on RDR2. You get no improved specular highlights. No wide color gamut. Basically none of the benefits of HDR. You get a slider that raises the white point of the SDR signal. Do you get more shadow detail that way? Well, yeah, but you’re also raising the black point, causing other aspects of the image to suffer.

This has all been well documented through Vincent Teoh and Digital Foundry, both working with an individual using tools to reveal peak brightness levels of HDR games. The results don’t lie. Hopefully this will be addressed by Rockstar sooner rather than later.

I’ve said all I can on the topic. I’m moving on at this point. Damn deer won’t skin themselves, and I need to go fishing.
Definitely I see the difference when I turned it off because at night it looks a lot darker, looks more realistic night time and with HDR on gamma got turned up and more detail from black shows up, that's why I prefer HDR on but then it doesn't look like night time anymore. No wonder I was wondering why it's midnight but it looks like 6pm.

I'm going to switch HDR off again and play extended period to see if I like it.
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post #113 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 10:31 AM
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My random unsubstantiated theory is the game's base engine wasn't built with HDR in mind. Rockstar didn't want to release a game at the end of 2018 without HDR, so they did what they could to check that HDR box.
That makes sense to me. Rockstar started development of this game before HDR so I imagine all their energy was focused on the writing of the story and the huge detailed world. HDR was probably an afterthought to the development team.
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post #114 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 11:16 AM
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Fact is a huge uproar needs to happen and they need to answer the question of did they half ass it or is it a bug. Because if you don't protest fake HDR now, every game will take the easy way out and fake it putting in no effort. They'll just think oh well see no one cares lets all do that now it's so much easier and cheaper to fake it.


And nothing is special about this games audio. It's a joke compared to Shadow of the tomb raiders Atmos, which is probably the best gaming audio ever.

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post #115 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 11:18 AM
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Because if you don't protest fake HDR now, every game will take the easy way out and fake it putting in no effort.
With over a decade of experience in the industry, I'll just say that won't happen.
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post #116 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 01:02 PM
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If the engine doesn’t support HDR then I kinda wish R* would have just not included it and been up front about it. I don’t think anyone’s perception of the game would have changed without HDR.

I guess this is why I’m holding out hope that it is some kinda of bug but, you would have thought that a bug like this would have been caught. I really hope it wasn’t a “let’s slap this in, no one will notice” attitude. I can’t be, from R*, can it?

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post #117 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 01:10 PM
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Fact is a huge uproar needs to happen and they need to answer the question of did they half ass it or is it a bug. Because if you don't protest fake HDR now, every game will take the easy way out and fake it putting in no effort. They'll just think oh well see no one cares lets all do that now it's so much easier and cheaper to fake it.


And nothing is special about this games audio. It's a joke compared to Shadow of the tomb raiders Atmos, which is probably the best gaming audio ever.
There has to be something more behind this.
The fact that SONY backed this game so much that they make a PS4 Pro bundle out of it (to specifically utilize the PS4 Pro hardware) and the fact that the game doesn't really utilize anything the Pro offers over the standard, makes SONY look like fools as well.
I'd imagine Sony execs would be all over this to remedy the situation as well.

In the "console" battle, to not have an exclusive, and to create a bundle like this to sway people to use the PS4 over the Xbox (even though both have bad HDR), and to have the PS4 pro not even have a matched / higher resolution, means anyone who didn't pre-order the system bundle and read about this issue will 100% go the Xbox route instead.

If i was a Sony exec, the first mention of something like this would be a visit to R* headquarters for immediate resolution.

My guess is that they had true HDR implementation for both xbox and ps4 and matched resolution on PS4 pro with Xbox One X, but due to performance issues and running out of time (and the headlines regarding crunching) left R* with no choice but to temporarily disable true HDR and lower the rez in PS4 to get it out the door with the hope of resolving the issues post-launch with a longer time-table.

I can't imagine another scenario. They had to make a call to delay it extremely last minute or get it out and update it through future patches.

I for one have the game installed, but i'm holding off on playing until these are resolved. I have Spiderman I can finish anyway in the meantime. But i want the full experience when I start.

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post #118 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 01:13 PM
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... due to performance issues and running out of time (and the headlines regarding crunching) left R* with no choice but to temporarily disable true HDR and lower the rez in PS4 to get it out the door with the hope of resolving the issues post-launch with a longer time-table.
What's the connection between resolution rendering on the PS4 and HDR? HDR is independent from resolution.
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post #119 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 01:17 PM
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What's the connection between resolution rendering on the PS4 and HDR? HDR is independent from resolution.
No connection, independent. But perhaps HDR caused some kind of performance issue on both systems.

There's no way a company that's been around for this long with that kind of reputation would have a faulty HDR implementation on both systems.

You really think they were like "we can't get this to work so we're gonna fake it and hope no one notices?"
There's no way

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post #120 of 169 Old 11-02-2018, 01:42 PM
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I turned HDR off on my XBox One X with TCL P605 and game looks much better.
I haven't played much with my X (play most games on my PS Pro, this is the first game I really use the X with), to turn off HDR do you have to do it in the Xbox system settings or is there an HDR on/off option in the game?
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