The Official Xbox One X thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
Are there AVRs out there that are fully compatible with 4k HDR pass-through in the $400 range?
Yep - and that's exactly what I recently purchased a 2016 Denon x-1200w for around $300 (although accessories4less.com is currently out of stock on this particular model).

That being said, NUMEROUS other good deals to be had. I'm a fan of Denon so can't speak to the other brands. Nothing wrong with the other brands, I've just always had good luck with Denon and know them better than others.

This 2016 model should meet your needs at $249.99 with 5 HDMI inputs:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html

Here is the Owner's Thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...hread-faq.html

Prepared for the future, the AVR-S720W features an advanced video processing and signal handling system including the latest HDMI 2.0a specification that's compatible with 4K Ultra HD BT.2020 full rate 60 Hz content, Wide Color Gamut, High Dynamic Range (HDR) 4:4:4 Pure Color sub-sampling and 21:9 aspect ratio pass-through. It's also HDCP 2.2 compliant, which is a requirement for 4K Ultra HD copy-protected content.
Equipped with both Bluetooth and dual band Wi-Fi and dual diversity antennas that ensure robust signal transmission and reception, the AVR-S720W lets you stream your favorite audio tracks wirelessly and you can easily control it with the Denon 2016 AVR remote available for iOS, Android and Kindle Fire smart devices.
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post #302 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
Are there AVRs out there that are fully compatible with 4k HDR pass-through in the $400 range?
Funny you should mention this. Denon has one for around $429 (model number escapes me) with 7.1 with all the latest pass through. 5hdmi in and 1 out. Dolby Atmos as well. Makes me want to upgrade my 3808ci which is perfect, but no 4k pass through. And I paid over 2x for mine!

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post #303 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 11:39 AM
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The Official Xbox One X thread

I'm a fan of Denon as well.

Guess I should have asked which HDMI spec is required to support 4k HDR, 2.0a or 2.0b? EDIT: Found my answer, 2.0a should support HDR.

I'm looking at all these links guys, thanks. Definitely going to consider the TCL TV as well.
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post #304 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
I'm a fan of Denon as well.

Guess I should have asked which HDMI spec is required to support 4k HDR, 2.0a or 2.0b?

I'm looking at all these links guys, thanks. Definitely going to consider the TCL TV as well.

2.0a

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post #305 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
Guess I should have asked which HDMI spec is required to support 4k HDR, 2.0a or 2.0b?
HDMI 2.0a and beyond.

Also should mention with 4K+HDR's bandwidth, HDMI cabling is crucial. You'll need to have HDMI cables that are certified for the 18Gb/s bandwidth, and not too long (6 foot optimal).

Be sure you really want to go down this rabbit hole.
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post #306 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 11:48 AM
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I recommend accessories4less like @lance466 mentioned. Great site bought my marantz Nr1606 for $400 last year. Works perfect for 4k and hdr10 all hdmi ports do passthrough.
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post #307 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
It works very well because it uses HRTF.

This isn't encoded with Atmos mind you but uses the same principle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F5UOHmxuhE

I somehow missed this earlier. I do get a left/right/back/height feeling to the sound. Lots of depth and sense of space. I do NOT get anything like this with Atmos for Headphones. This is kind of what I was hoping for lol, or at least something close.

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Have you tried windows sonic? I go to the Dolby test tones and try 7.1.2. The back speakers are the only ones that don't sound different then the sides but the top does sound like it's coming above. Tried it last night.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html
I'll give these a try, thanks! I used Sonic for about a month or so before I realized I could get the Dolby Access app, but didn't notice much depth on it either. But then, I wasn't really using it a whole lot except for chatting on Live with a buddy and game sound was usually turned way down. I'll test it out with this and see how it performs!

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post #308 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 01:50 PM
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Interesting article from The Verge. Should Sony and Microsoft be chasing 4K at 30fps or should they be maxing out graphics and FPS at 1080p. 4K television adoption is growing but not the norm yet. At this time I think 1080p maxed out settings with 60+ FPS should be the goal.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/20/1...o-wrong-target
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post #309 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Budracin8 View Post
Interesting article from The Verge. Should Sony and Microsoft be chasing 4K at 30fps or should they be maxing out graphics and FPS at 1080p. 4K television adoption is growing but not the norm yet. At this time I think 1080p maxed out settings with 60+ FPS should be the goal.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/20/1...o-wrong-target
The key difference between wanting 60fps on a PC vs. consoles is the user decides what hardware he wants to throw at it and what resolution he is willing to settle with.

The disadvantage console developers have with these mid-generation hardware upgrades is they have to maintain software consistency across the entire line of consoles. Upping resolution doesn't break a game because that can be handled with the scaler, but the same game having different framerate between an older and newer console is much different. There isn't a magical switch that turns the XB1X's extra power toward framerate.

With that said, if the game was written, or can be patched, with unlocked framerate, then we will probably be seeing better framerates on the XB1X.
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post #310 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 02:32 PM
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I am looking forward to their Headphone Atmos/HTRF update that is coming soon to all Xbox Ones.
What exactly is that feature you're speaking of? I just downloaded the Dolby app and download the 30 trial but I'm liking what I'm hearing so far with the Atmos for headphones feature. I am in the preview ring so it might be that I'm seeing that feature before others are.




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post #311 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Budracin8 View Post
Interesting article from The Verge. Should Sony and Microsoft be chasing 4K at 30fps or should they be maxing out graphics and FPS at 1080p. 4K television adoption is growing but not the norm yet. At this time I think 1080p maxed out settings with 60+ FPS should be the goal.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/20/1...o-wrong-target
I'm ok with that as long as the game has HDR.

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post #312 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 03:48 PM
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I'd rather they do 1440p/60 if they can't achieve 4k60. That's just my opinion.
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post #313 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 04:04 PM
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I'd rather they do 1440p/60 if they can't achieve 4k60. That's just my opinion.
I agree. I don't have any 4K TVs yet but can certainly appreciate 60FPS and ultra graphic settings vs the 900p at 30fps medium settings we get on Xbox One now.

For those that don't think there is a difference fire up Battlefield 1 on xbox and play for 1/2 an hour or so. Then (if you have one to use) fire up the same game on PC at ultra and 60+ fps. You will see the difference.

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post #314 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 04:57 PM
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To have consistent [email protected] for games you start with a 1080Ti as a starting point. That's starts at $600. No one at $800 system is doing as you say close to [email protected] PS4 Pro goal is for 1080p for game sand maybe some 4k. Xbox One X goal is 4k and guaranteed 1080p for all games going forward and existing games with tools to get those existing games MS want developers to achieve. PC is more expensive to reach the [email protected] goal and at the end of the day it comes down to preference.
You know, I think we are both a little off, How about we meet somewhere in the middle? I'll concede that an 800$ pc with console quality level components, isn't going to get you a consistent 4k60 at medium settings, but a 1080ti is also overkill. I'll revise my estimate to 1000-1200$ for a box that will do 4k60 at medium settings. We do need to factor in that the consoles aren't pushing the same graphical fidelity as maxed out settings on a pc. I'm pretty sure that if I really skimped on the quality of a few components, I could build someone an 800$ box that can do 4k60 at the same graphical fidelity as the Xbox One X, whether or not it would last more than a few days before it blewup is another story

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post #315 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 05:23 PM
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You know, I think we are both a little off, How about we meet somewhere in the middle? I'll concede that an 800$ pc with console quality level components, isn't going to get you a consistent 4k60 at medium settings, but a 1080ti is also overkill. I'll revise my estimate to 1000-1200$ for a box that will do 4k60 at medium settings. We do need to factor in that the consoles aren't pushing the same graphical fidelity as maxed out settings on a pc. I'm pretty sure that if I really skimped on the quality of a few components, I could build someone an 800$ box that can do 4k60 at the same graphical fidelity as the Xbox One X, whether or not it would last more than a few days before it blewup is another story
I can conceded to that but I also have to add that regardless of price of a PC the one issue that is frustrating is drivers, OS or broken PC games.

As both a PC gamer and console owner just in the last year we can point out games that had straight up issues true to one of the three above reasons. Gears of War 4 for a month we couldn't play the game due to an OS issue that you couldn't download the whole game and people were getting different game sizes on their hard dive. Drivers constantly make or break a new or existing game. But as Pc gamers we have deal with it. These problems are not nearly as frequent across all consoles compared to PC outside of being in the beta updates like on the Xbox One. At that point you should expect something to break in a beta and then fixed by the time it rolls out to the public. Some people love to say just get a PC but people on here don't even have the patients for console issues and we think the average person is going to troubleshoot and then finally ask or google the issue on a pc if it is software or hardware. Convenience always wins out. People that build PCs were born into it and have a passion to tinker(thanks Commodore 64 and Legos) and deal with the issues we can fix ourselves.


Also for 800 and knowing it wouldn't last a day is because you used a 400 watt power with a 1080ti and just air for the CPU rocking a i7 2500k. Yes I can concede and say what the hell to that.
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post #316 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 05:28 PM
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This 2016 model should meet your needs at $249.99 with 5 HDMI inputs:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html
I was actually looking at this exact model on Best Buy's site but it is almost $100 more. Unfortunately they are giving me store credit so I ca't use accessories4less.

Here is where I am after think about it all day. I'm leaning towards giving the TCL a try but, I'm nervous. A lot of talk in the owners thread about backlight bleeding (which seems odd for a fald). 4 years ago I gave Vizio a try and hated the light bleed and flashlighting, exchanged it for my current LG. So, I'm always a little nervous about these budget brands. That $600 for the features included is hard to pass up though.

I'm also considering skipping the AVR upgrade for now. It means I'll be stuck with plain old DD/DTS for any 4k/HDR sources (like my PS4) but, I'm really getting hyped for the Xbox One X. Saving up the money for an X by launch was always going to be a struggle. What ever store credit is left after a TV may be better used for the X. I can revisit the AVR down the road, maybe with tax refund next March. I would then be able to use accessories4less.

Just thinking out loud.
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post #317 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 05:32 PM
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I was actually looking at this exact model on Best Buy's site but it is almost $100 more. Unfortunately they are giving me store credit so I ca't use accessories4less.

Here is where I am after think about it all day. I'm leaning towards giving the TCL a try but, I'm nervous. A lot of talk in the owners thread about backlight bleeding (which seems odd for a fald). 4 years ago I gave Vizio a try and hated the light bleed and flashlighting, exchanged it for my current LG. So, I'm always a little nervous about these budget brands. That $600 for the features included is hard to pass up though.

I'm also considering skipping the AVR upgrade for now. It means I'll be stuck with plain old DD/DTS for any 4k/HDR sources (like my PS4) but, I'm really getting hyped for the Xbox One X. Saving up the money for an X by launch was always going to be a struggle. What ever store credit is left after a TV may be better used for the X. I can revisit the AVR down the road, maybe with tax refund next March. I would then be able to use accessories4less.

Just thinking out loud.
As a current owner of the TCL, who has some of those issues with the backlight, I still fully recommend the TV. I am very nitpicky and that's really the only reason why the black uniformity bothers me. Aside from that issue though, the TV really is totally amazing. TCL also is already releasing an update this week to improve FALD performance, so it seems that they are being proactive about continuing to improve the TV. Of course, backlight clouding can't be fixed with software, but if they can change it so local dimming works while in game mode, the clouding will almost never be noticed in any real usage.
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post #318 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 10:50 PM
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I can conceded to that but I also have to add that regardless of price of a PC the one issue that is frustrating is drivers, OS or broken PC games.

As both a PC gamer and console owner just in the last year we can point out games that had straight up issues true to one of the three above reasons. Gears of War 4 for a month we couldn't play the game due to an OS issue that you couldn't download the whole game and people were getting different game sizes on their hard dive. Drivers constantly make or break a new or existing game. But as Pc gamers we have deal with it. These problems are not nearly as frequent across all consoles compared to PC outside of being in the beta updates like on the Xbox One. At that point you should expect something to break in a beta and then fixed by the time it rolls out to the public. Some people love to say just get a PC but people on here don't even have the patients for console issues and we think the average person is going to troubleshoot and then finally ask or google the issue on a pc if it is software or hardware. Convenience always wins out. People that build PCs were born into it and have a passion to tinker(thanks Commodore 64 and Legos) and deal with the issues we can fix ourselves.


Also for 800 and knowing it wouldn't last a day is because you used a 400 watt power with a 1080ti and just air for the CPU rocking a i7 2500k. Yes I can concede and say what the hell to that.
Yeah for sure, if I didn't have a Steam library with 150 games I'd jump ship to a 60fps console without a second thought. You underestimate my corner cutting, I'd find you the cheapest paper thin case, a power supply that would double as a fireworks display, a Pentium G3258 overclocked to blue screen after 5 minutes in game, on a 20-40$ mainboard with no vrm cooling, that was never really meant for overclocking, and a questionably "legit" copy of windows, enjoy
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post #319 of 6817 Old 06-20-2017, 10:53 PM
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Yeah for sure, if I didn't have a Steam library with 150 games I'd jump ship to a 60fps console without a second thought. You underestimate my corner cutting, I'd find you the cheapest paper thin case, a power supply that would double as a fireworks display, a Pentium G3258 overclocked to blue screen after 5 minutes in game, on a 20-40$ mainboard with no vrm cooling, that was never really meant for overclocking, and a questionably "legit" copy of windows, enjoy
Damn son I am done, you got me with the paper thin case lmao.
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post #320 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 06:52 AM
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As a current owner of the TCL, who has some of those issues with the backlight, I still fully recommend the TV. I am very nitpicky and that's really the only reason why the black uniformity bothers me. Aside from that issue though, the TV really is totally amazing. TCL also is already releasing an update this week to improve FALD performance, so it seems that they are being proactive about continuing to improve the TV. Of course, backlight clouding can't be fixed with software, but if they can change it so local dimming works while in game mode, the clouding will almost never be noticed in any real usage.


Thank you for your input. Wish I could see one in person but my BB doesn't have any in stock. Light bleed and viewing angle are my biggest concerns. One if our couches is probably 40-50 degrees off center. I hope they can get FLAD working in game mode because I like to set things and forget it. Plus, when I'm not home the wife will never remember to turn on game mode when she or the kids want to play.

Does the TV remember on a per input basis if you had game mode on? Say I had use it on HDMI 2 but not HDMI 3?

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post #321 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 07:08 AM
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Thank you for your input. Wish I could see one in person but my BB doesn't have any in stock. Light bleed and viewing angle are my biggest concerns. One if our couches is probably 40-50 degrees off center. I hope they can get FLAD working in game mode because I like to set things and forget it. Plus, when I'm not home the wife will never remember to turn on game mode when she or the kids want to play.

Does the TV remember on a per input basis if you had game mode on? Say I had use it on HDMI 2 but not HDMI 3?
Yep, all picture settings are on a per-input or -app basis. So you can set one thing for Netflix, then set something else with game mode for whichever input the console is on, and it will remember those settings separately.
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post #322 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Budracin8 View Post
I agree. I don't have any 4K TVs yet but can certainly appreciate 60FPS and ultra graphic settings vs the 900p at 30fps medium settings we get on Xbox One now.

For those that don't think there is a difference fire up Battlefield 1 on xbox and play for 1/2 an hour or so. Then (if you have one to use) fire up the same game on PC at ultra and 60+ fps. You will see the difference.
The difference is obvious on the PS4 Pro too.
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post #323 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Budracin8 View Post
Interesting article from The Verge. Should Sony and Microsoft be chasing 4K at 30fps or should they be maxing out graphics and FPS at 1080p. 4K television adoption is growing but not the norm yet. At this time I think 1080p maxed out settings with 60+ FPS should be the goal.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/20/1...o-wrong-target
As someone who has a 4K TV, I feel that yes, they SHOULD be chasing 4K. Even tho it isn't the norm it is, as you admit, growing. There will be a demand for more 4k material. The XB1X wasn't built for today, June 21. It was built with the next few years in mind. As people replace TV's, 4K will become more and more normal since it's harder to find 1080P sets. You could say don't waste time on delivering 4K because there aren't enough sets yet, but then people won't get 4K sets because there is no 4K material, and it becomes a cycle. I applaud Microsoft for being forward thinking enough to make 4K, especially 4K gaming, easily accessible for the masses. By the time the next generation comes along, 4K will be much more commonplace and they can throw the hardware at making much more detailed and rich games in 4K.

And as much as 4K has been promoted, it's totally up to the developer on whether they want to offer 4k or more detailed worlds at 1080P. Microsoft is offering more powerful hardware - how it's used is up to the developer.

For me, I'm looking forward to seeing the same worlds in 4K HDR with higher rez textures. Can't wait!
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post #324 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 07:47 AM
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As someone who has a 4K TV, I feel that yes, they SHOULD be chasing 4K. Even tho it isn't the norm it is, as you admit, growing. There will be a demand for more 4k material. The XB1X wasn't built for today, June 21. It was built with the next few years in mind. As people replace TV's, 4K will become more and more normal since it's harder to find 1080P sets. You could say don't waste time on delivering 4K because there aren't enough sets yet, but then people won't get 4K sets because there is no 4K material, and it becomes a cycle. I applaud Microsoft for being forward thinking enough to make 4K, especially 4K gaming, easily accessible for the masses. By the time the next generation comes along, 4K will be much more commonplace and they can throw the hardware at making much more detailed and rich games in 4K.

And as much as 4K has been promoted, it's totally up to the developer on whether they want to offer 4k or more detailed worlds at 1080P. Microsoft is offering more powerful hardware - how it's used is up to the developer.

For me, I'm looking forward to seeing the same worlds in 4K HDR with higher rez textures. Can't wait!
Fair points. Similar to hardware manufacturers dropping CD drives from laptops/desktops. Some people complained but now it is common to not have a CD drive.

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post #325 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 08:00 AM
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I don't why Microsoft is shot changing the Xbox One X, this product has everything that any tech enthusiast is looking for:

4K UHD Blu-ray Support
Dolby ATMOS and DTS:X UHD/Blu-ray support
True 4k HDR Gaming support
Dolby ATMOS Gaming support

And so more......

I don't why people alway bring up the PS4 pro, as far as the PS4 pro doesn't support those things I mention above there is no need for comparison.
The Xbox One X is on a new plateau
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post #326 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 08:30 AM
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Fair points. Similar to hardware manufacturers dropping CD drives from laptops/desktops. Some people complained but now it is common to not have a CD drive.
I can't even recall the last time I used a DVD in a PC, let alone a CD. Back when I used discs for storage, CDs couldn't hold much so I switched to DVDs as soon as I could. But I couldn't imagine using a DVD or CD any more for any storage needs. A flash drive is much, much faster.

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post #327 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 08:36 AM
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I can't even recall the last time I used a DVD in a PC, let alone a CD. Back when I used discs for storage, CDs couldn't hold much so I switched to DVDs as soon as I could. But I couldn't imagine using a DVD or CD any more for any storage needs. A flash drive is much, much faster.
Funny you mentioned it (and I mentioned first). My wife likes older TV shows and some are not streaming or even available for digital purchase. Recently I bought her the Mamas Family DVD box set with the plan to rip the discs to my PC so she can watch them on a Roku via either Plex or an external USB drive. After I bought the DVD set I remembered that I never put a DVD/CD drive in the PC I built a year or so ago. I ended up having to borrow my mother's external DVD/CD drive (she uses it for some games I think [she's 70]) so I could burn the DVDs.
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post #328 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 09:11 AM
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Fair points. Similar to hardware manufacturers dropping CD drives from laptops/desktops. Some people complained but now it is common to not have a CD drive.
It's funny you mention this! I remember the opposite being true - when CD drives were just coming out and being put in PC's. Software was still coming on floppy disks and people complained that they had to spend money on a CD drive that they were never going to use! A couple years later when CD's became more commonplace everyone was glad they had a CD drive already. Now recently people complained when they dropped disc drives. Both times it was a change in how things were done, and the change didn't necessarily apply to them right that minute. But looking forward, both made sense. Which is why I feel the XB1X supporting 4K makes sense as well. It doesn't apply right this minute to a lot of people, but give it a year or so and I think it'll make a lot more sense.

And for the record, I'm not AGAINST the power of the XB1X being used towards faster frame rates or lusher and richer environments at 1080P! 1080P looks great on my 4K TV. I am definitely looking forward to 4K rez and higher texture quality tho - I find it much more immersive.
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post #329 of 6817 Old 06-21-2017, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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1080p TVs are already being phased out in the marketplace so it's only a matter of time. Some reports say that by 2020, half of the homes will have at least 1 4K TV.
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post #330 of 6817 Old 06-22-2017, 06:35 AM
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So, I have a LG 65UB9500, This is a 65" 4K tv with HDMI 2.0 with DHCP 2.2 (no HDMI 2.0a or HDR). The question I have that I cant find an answer on, will the Xbox One X allow me to game in 4K, or is HDR REQUIRED to get 4K playback ?


I ended up with a Xbox One S, as you can figure, no HDR means no advanage in gaming at al, but, 4K blu-ray looked nice.


I would get a new TV but, if you knew what I had to go through to get rid of a 65" RPG tv with the wife...Not looking forward the nightmare of this. Unless the TV dies of course but, the TV looks and works great....sigh..

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