The Official Xbox One X thread - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 6727 Old 07-28-2017, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post
If someone adds you as a friend, that person becomes your Follower. They are not a friend. If you add them back, then that person becomes your friend and is no longer a follower. Friends and followers see different things about you.
I think that depends on you settings, doesn't it?

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post #482 of 6727 Old 07-28-2017, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
So, I'm guessing (hoping) followers can't see you real name unless you friend them as well. This is an interesting change, feels more like Twitter. What has been the benefits of this new way as opposed to the old 360 friend request method?
This allows more granularity. So you can be the typical millennial with a zillion followers but be able to separate your actual friends. Plus, they will never know that you didn't friend them (unless they follow you so closely that they notice that your friends count didn't go up but your follower count does). Sometimes you don't want them to know whether you accepted them as a friend or not.

Plus, you can still separate friends into regular friends and favorites too. That's more of the granularity.
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post #483 of 6727 Old 07-28-2017, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rightintel View Post
I think that depends on you settings, doesn't it?
Yeah, you can control your privacy settings. It's not as comprehensive as something like Facebook (then again, FB intentionally tries to be confusing so that you accidentally share more than you intend), but there is some control.
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post #484 of 6727 Old 07-29-2017, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post
I just added you to my Friends list, but all I can see is your Gamertag and Gamerscore. On my end, it appears you have 0 friends, 0 followers, no achievements, captures/screenshots, etc..

I'm assuming if you accept the FR (not offended if you decline!), then I would be able to see that info plus your name if set to show name to Friends.

As to why it's setup that way.... dunno.
What a total Loser! Nice to have you back on The Xbox Side of things @rolltide1017 !

I think they set it up that way so you can hook up with people for games quicker and not necessarily have to be friends. Following and followers lets you do that, but friends give you those extra details that you can't get as a follower.
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post #485 of 6727 Old 08-01-2017, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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updated main post to list the 80 games announced by their respective developers to have specific Xbox One X enhancements at the games' launch. List pulled from Neowin article (https://www.neowin.net/news/80-games...ne-x-at-launch):
  • Agents of Mayhem
  • Anthem
  • Ashen
  • Assassin’s Creed: Origins
  • Black Desert
  • Chess Ultra
  • Code Vein
  • Crackdown 3
  • Deep Rock Galactic
  • Dragon Ball Fighter Z
  • Evil Within 2
  • F1 2017
  • Far Cry 5
  • Farming Simulator 18
  • FIFA 18
  • Fortnite
  • Forza Motorsport 7
  • Hello Neighbor
  • Killing Floor 2
  • Life is Strange: Before the Storm
  • Madden NFL 18
  • Metro Exodus
  • Middle Earth: Shadow of War
  • NBA 2K18
  • Need for Speed Payback
  • Ori and the Will of the Wisps
  • Path of Exile
  • Playerunknown’s Battlegrounds
  • Project Cars 2
  • Raiders of the Broken Planet
  • Sea of Thieves
  • Star Wars Battlefront II
  • State of Decay 2
  • Super Lucky’s Tale
  • The Artful Escape
  • The Last Night
  • Wolfenstein: The New Colossus
  • Ark: Survival Evolved
  • Astroneer
  • Dead Rising 4
  • Dishonored 2
  • DOOM
  • Dovetail Games Euro Fishing
  • Elder Scrolls Online
  • Elite Dangerous
  • Everspace
  • Fallout 4
  • Farming Simulator 17
  • Final Fantasy 15
  • For Honor
  • Forza Horizon 3
  • Gears of War 4
  • Halo 5
  • Halo Wars 2
  • Hitman
  • Homefront: The Revolution
  • Injustice 2
  • Killer Instinct
  • Mantis Burn Racing
  • Minecraft
  • Outlast 2
  • Paladins: Champions of the Realm
  • Portal Knights
  • Pure Chess
  • Resident Evil 7
  • RiME
  • Rocket League
  • Skyrim SE
  • Slime Rancher
  • SUPERHOT
  • Tekken 7
  • The Surge
  • Titanfall 2
  • Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Wildlands
  • Warhammer: End Times – Vermintide
  • We Happy Few
  • Witcher 3
  • World of Tanks
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post #486 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 03:28 AM
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Hi guys, lots of posts to read so I thought I would just ask the question.


If an old Xbox game is backwards compatible and playable now on the Xbox One, will it also be playable on the Xbox One X on launch day?

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post #487 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post
Hi guys, lots of posts to read so I thought I would just ask the question.


If an old Xbox game is backwards compatible and playable now on the Xbox One, will it also be playable on the Xbox One X on launch day?
Pretty sure the answer is yes.
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post #488 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post
Hi guys, lots of posts to read so I thought I would just ask the question.


If an old Xbox game is backwards compatible and playable now on the Xbox One, will it also be playable on the Xbox One X on launch day?
The answer is definite yes including controllers, Kinect and original accessories will work as well they announce this before and during the reveal.
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post #489 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post
updated main post to list the 80 games announced by their respective developers to have specific Xbox One X enhancements at the games' launch. List pulled from Neowin article (https://www.neowin.net/news/80-games...ne-x-at-launch):

[list deleted]

There are 9 titles in this list I care about, and a coupe of Maybes. I can't wait to see how those 9 look when I get the X!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post
Hi guys, lots of posts to read so I thought I would just ask the question.

If an old Xbox game is backwards compatible and playable now on the Xbox One, will it also be playable on the Xbox One X on launch day?
Yes. One of the things they talked about with the X is how back compat games will be even smoother.

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post #490 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 10:43 AM
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Question for commenters on this thread: Does anyone think that MS & valve will eventually approve/allow a full fledged Steam App for XB1X?

I ask because since XB1X is already powered by Windows 10...and can interface with a KB/KP/M/Controller and has essentially the same hardware as a very decent upper mid level PC rig...it just seems to me that it would be the ideal test case for a mind meld and real game changer console (if they could figure out a way holster the ego's). With Valve pushing "Steam Box"...and MS dabbling into the PC world with Windows 10...this just seems like an obvious win/win unless I'm missing something right in front of my face here.
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post #491 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
Question for commenters on this thread: Does anyone think that MS & valve will eventually approve/allow a full fledged Steam App for XB1X?

I ask because since XB1X is already powered by Windows 10...and can interface with a KB/KP/M/Controller and has essentially the same hardware as a very decent upper mid level PC rig...it just seems to me that it would be the ideal test case for a mind meld and real game changer console (if they could figure out a way holster the ego's). With Valve pushing "Steam Box"...and MS dabbling into the PC world with Windows 10...this just seems like an obvious win/win unless I'm missing something right in front of my face here.
nope
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post #492 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
Question for commenters on this thread: Does anyone think that MS & valve will eventually approve/allow a full fledged Steam App for XB1X?

I ask because since XB1X is already powered by Windows 10...and can interface with a KB/KP/M/Controller and has essentially the same hardware as a very decent upper mid level PC rig...it just seems to me that it would be the ideal test case for a mind meld and real game changer console (if they could figure out a way holster the ego's). With Valve pushing "Steam Box"...and MS dabbling into the PC world with Windows 10...this just seems like an obvious win/win unless I'm missing something right in front of my face here.
My money would say: no chance in hell. The Xbox is a closed and controlled ecosystem. That's part of the appeal of a console. They would have to open up the system a lot to allow Steam and PC games to play on the XB1X. And a LOT of games already have console counterparts to begin with. You are more likely to see a unicorn riding a dragon than this scenario ever happen.

But I AM glad MS decided to start dabbling in the PC world, finally giving those "other" OS's some competition. They are making good inroads into the PC space... :/
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post #493 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post
The answer is definite yes including controllers, Kinect and original accessories will work as well they announce this before and during the reveal.
headsets?

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post #494 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rightintel View Post
headsets?
I wouldn't see why not. It is still an Xbox One. Shouldn't be a compatibility issue from one version to the next compared to an Xbox 360 to an Xbox One.
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post #495 of 6727 Old 08-02-2017, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf7002 View Post
My money would say: no chance in hell. The Xbox is a closed and controlled ecosystem.
The flipside is that Steam is equally closed and controlled. The Valve/Newell empire is enormous.
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post #496 of 6727 Old 08-03-2017, 07:40 AM
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Any reason to believe that games that already have PS4 Pro support wouldn't also be enhanced for the X? Just seems like if the work is already done, why not just slap it onto the X, even if you don't want to be bothered making them even better with the stronger hardware. I get that they are two different systems and that it isn't just a matter of flipping a switch to get it to run on the X, but still.

I am talking about games like The Division, Watch_Dogs 2, Dark Souls 3, Deus Ex: MD, Diablo 3, Middle Earth: SoM, Firewatch, ME: Andromeda, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and these are just games that I'd be interested in. There are lots of others that have Pro support that aren't on the list yet.

And it seems like quite a few games that do have Pro support already are going to be "better" on the X (i.e, higher resolution, higher frame rates, and/or HDR). This is where I am getting comparisons: PS4 Pro and Xbox One X

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post #497 of 6727 Old 08-03-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dbburns View Post
Any reason to believe that games that already have PS4 Pro support wouldn't also be enhanced for the X? Just seems like if the work is already done, why not just slap it onto the X, even if you don't want to be bothered making them even better with the stronger hardware. I get that they are two different systems and that it isn't just a matter of flipping a switch to get it to run on the X, but still.

I am talking about games like The Division, Watch_Dogs 2, Dark Souls 3, Deus Ex: MD, Diablo 3, Middle Earth: SoM, Firewatch, ME: Andromeda, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and these are just games that I'd be interested in. There are lots of others that have Pro support that aren't on the list yet.

And it seems like quite a few games that do have Pro support already are going to be "better" on the X (i.e, higher resolution, higher frame rates, and/or HDR). This is where I am getting comparisons: PS4 Pro and Xbox One X
Just because those games haven't been announced as having X support doesn't mean they won't. It's totally up to the developer as to whether they want to provide the resources to making it happen. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. It would be great if all available games got enhancements, but that's not realistic.
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post #498 of 6727 Old 08-03-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dbburns View Post
Any reason to believe that games that already have PS4 Pro support wouldn't also be enhanced for the X? Just seems like if the work is already done, why not just slap it onto the X, even if you don't want to be bothered making them even better with the stronger hardware. I get that they are two different systems and that it isn't just a matter of flipping a switch to get it to run on the X, but still.

I am talking about games like The Division, Watch_Dogs 2, Dark Souls 3, Deus Ex: MD, Diablo 3, Middle Earth: SoM, Firewatch, ME: Andromeda, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and these are just games that I'd be interested in. There are lots of others that have Pro support that aren't on the list yet.

And it seems like quite a few games that do have Pro support already are going to be "better" on the X (i.e, higher resolution, higher frame rates, and/or HDR). This is where I am getting comparisons: PS4 Pro and Xbox One X
The reason would be because the work is only done for the PS4 Pro. The PS4 Pro has a CPU running at a higher clock (than the original PS4) but mirrored GPU dies which is efffectively like running two GPUs in crossfire configuration.

For the PS4 Pro, they have to divide the work between the two GPUs and are using the GNMX API for the GPUs and a fork of a Linux distro for the main OS. Compare that to The Xbox which is running the Windows 10 kernel and DirectX 11 and 12.

The Xbox One X will be able to run games at a higher native resolution and framerate without any developer involvement but where the developer would have to be involved is if they wanted a different anti-aliasing method, changing draw distance, poly count, FX count, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post
updated main post to list the 80 games announced by their respective developers to have specific Xbox One X enhancements at the games' launch. List pulled from Neowin article (https://www.neowin.net/news/80-games...ne-x-at-launch):
That is an awesome list but just as Sony has been, MS is very lax as far as what "enhancements" are required. As an owner of a couple PS4 Pros and will be an Xbox One X owner, this does my head in because the level of support varies so much. Some games may just have a higher framerate, some just some extra rendering techniques enables, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the changes need to be done on an engine by engine, game by game basis but these mid-cycle upgrades just add a level of complexity for nerds like me that want to know and track the changes under the hood. (Also why I am primarily a PC gamer.)
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Last edited by mutelight; 08-03-2017 at 04:37 PM.
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post #499 of 6727 Old 08-03-2017, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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The Xbox One X will be able to run games at a higher native resolution and framerate without any developer involvement but where the developer would have to be involved is if they wanted a different anti-aliasing method, changing draw distance, poly count, FX count, etc.
PS4 Pro required patches for any kind of enhancement.

They've said that without any involvement by the developer, all Xbox One games will be able to benefit. For example, 16x anisotropic filtering will be substituted for the typical 4X MSAA by Xbox One games. This is done at the system level without any patching or alteration to the game. Same for native resolution rendering. And no more need for dynamic resolution scaling for current Xbox One titles. Frame rate stabilization too (rock solid 30 fps or 60 fps instead of the fluctuation that can occur now). However, to go from 30 to 60 would require the developer patch the game as well as for true 4K textures.
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post #500 of 6727 Old 08-03-2017, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post
PS4 Pro required patches for any kind of enhancement.

They've said that without any involvement by the developer, all Xbox One games will be able to benefit. For example, 16x anisotropic filtering will be substituted for the typical 4X MSAA by Xbox One games. This is done at the system level without any patching or alteration to the game. Same for native resolution rendering. And no more need for dynamic resolution scaling for current Xbox One titles. Frame rate stabilization too (rock solid 30 fps or 60 fps instead of the fluctuation that can occur now). However, to go from 30 to 60 would require the developer patch the game as well as for true 4K textures.
The PS4 Pro does, correct. (I touched on that in the part of my post you didn’t quote.)

As far as legacy games on the One X, the Antialiasing technique will likely vary by title. With MSAA being costly and if they’re shooting for a native 4K frame buffer, I don’t see that happening frequently nor necessary. Now those playing at 1080p, I can see 4x MSAA being employed.

I’m slightly confused though because you seemed to have partially quoted me and then reiterate what the gist of what I mentioned already.

Last edited by mutelight; 08-03-2017 at 10:22 PM.
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post #501 of 6727 Old 08-03-2017, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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the reason I quoted you was that you stated that antialiasing and filtering would have to be patched by the developer when it's been reported that this will be done at the system level without requiring any developer intervention.

as for MSAA... on the Xbox One, there is MSAA in hardware. So it's essentially free. However, some developers did not use MSAA because of the small size of the ESRAM which forced them to run games at lower resolutions if hardware MSAA was used.
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post #502 of 6727 Old 08-04-2017, 06:38 AM
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This list goes much deeper into the enhancements.

https://www.windowscentral.com/all-x...enhanced-games



Aaero (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
Agents of Mayhem ARK: Survival Evolved (1080p, HDR, 60 FPS)
Anthem (4K, HDR, 30 FPS)
Ashen (4K, HDR)
Assassin's Creed: Origins (4K, HDR, 30 FPS
Astroneer (4K)
Black Desert Online (4K)
Brawlout (4K)
Chess Ultra (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
Code Vein Conan Exiles (4K)
Crackdown 3 (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
Dark and Light (4K)
Dead Rising 4 (4K)
Deep Rock Galactic (4K, HDR)
Dishonored 2 (4K, 30 FPS)
Doom (4K, 60 FPS)
Dovetail Games Euro Fishing (4K)
Dragon Ball FighterZ Elite Dangerous (4K)
Everspace (4K)
F1 2017 (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
Fable Fortune (4K)
Fallout 4 (4K, 30 FPS)
Farming Simulator 17 (4K, 30 FPS)
Final Fantasy XV (4K, HDR)
FIFA 18 (4K, 60 FPS)
For Honor (4K, 30 FPS)
Fortnite (4K, HDR, 30 FPS)
Forza Horizon 3 (4K, HDR, 30 FPS)
Forza Motorsport 7 (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
Gears of War 4 (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
Ghost Recon: Wildlands (4K, HDR)
Ginger: Beyond The Crystal
Halo 5: Guardians (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
Halo Wars (4K, HDR)
Hello Neighbor (4K)
Hitman (4K, HDR)
Homefront: The Revolution (4K)
Injustice 2 (4K, HDR)
Killer Instinct (4K, 60 FPS)
Killing Floor 2 (Native 1800p)
Life is Strange: Before the Storm
Madden NFL 18 (4K)
Mantis Burn Racing (4K, 60 FPS)
Metro: Exodus (4K, HDR)
Middle-earth: Shadow of War (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
Minecraft (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
NBA 2K18 (4K, HDR)
Need For Speed: Payback Observer (4K)
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (4K)
Outlast 2
Paladins (4K, 60 FPS)
Path of Exile (4K, 60 FPS)
PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds (4K, HDR, currently 30 FPS)
Portal Knights (4K)
Raiders of the Broken Planet (4K, HDR)
ReCore (4K, HDR)
Resident Evil 7: Biohazard (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
RiME (4K)
Riverbond (4K)
Robocraft Infinity (4K)
Rocket League (4K, HDR, 60 FPS)
Sea of Thieves (4K, HDR)
Slime Rancher (4K)
SMITE (4K, 60 FPS)
Star Wars Battlefront II
State of Decay 2 (4K, HDR)
Strange Brigade (4K, HDR)
Super Lucky's Tale (4K, 60 FPS)
Superhot (4K)
Tacoma (4K)
The Artful Escape of Francis Vendetti (4K)
The Darwin Project (4K, HDR)
The Elder Scrolls Online (4K, HDR)
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Special Edition (4K, HDR)
The Evil Within 2 (4K, HDR)
The Last Night (4K, HDR)
The Surge (4K, HDR)
The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
Thumper (4K)
Titanfall 2 (4K, 60 FPS)
Unruly Heroes (4K)
Warhammer: End Times - Vermintide (4K)
Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus (4K, HDR)
World of Tanks (4K, HDR, 30 FPS)
We Happy Few (4K)
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post #503 of 6727 Old 08-04-2017, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post
the reason I quoted you was that you stated that antialiasing and filtering would have to be patched by the developer when it's been reported that this will be done at the system level without requiring any developer intervention.

as for MSAA... on the Xbox One, there is MSAA in hardware. So it's essentially free. However, some developers did not use MSAA because of the small size of the ESRAM which forced them to run games at lower resolutions if hardware MSAA was used.
Sure, I only called that out because a global solution may not work for every game out there out of the box. The rest of my points still stand.

Do you have a link to information regarding there being MSAA hardware? I have a bunch of early technical docs and notes and we have some dev kits at work, granted I am not directly working with them and I have never heard of that.

Same Jaguar CPU and GPU clocked much higher with the GPU having much more compute units, more RAM which is also much faster, removal of ESRAM but never seen information on dedicated MSAA hardware.

Again, I am just taking an objective view and own numerous Xboxs and not trying to dog on it, was just pointing out the differences between optimization between the two systems. There is no doubt the One X is much easier to optimize for vs. the PS4, only having to worry about one GPU.
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post #504 of 6727 Old 08-04-2017, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Sure, I only called that out because a global solution may not work for every game out there out of the box. The rest of my points still stand.

Do you have a link to information regarding there being MSAA hardware? I have a bunch of early technical docs and notes and we have some dev kits at work, granted I am not directly working with them and I have never heard of that.

Same Jaguar CPU and GPU clocked much higher with the GPU having much more compute units, more RAM which is also much faster, removal of ESRAM but never seen information on dedicated MSAA hardware.

Again, I am just taking an objective view and own numerous Xboxs and not trying to dog on it, was just pointing out the differences between optimization between the two systems. There is no doubt the One X is much easier to optimize for vs. the PS4, only having to worry about one GPU.
The information is all over the place in relation to this since E3 by individual developers and Microsoft talking about the capabilities. Look around E3 timeframes and you will find them.

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post #505 of 6727 Old 08-04-2017, 07:29 AM
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The information is all over the place in relation to this since E3 by individual developers and Microsoft talking about the capabilities. Look around E3 timeframes and you will find them.
It isn't though unless my Google Fu skills are lacking this morning. Care to help out?

GPU manufacturers are always looking to optimize in order to reduce the cost of anti-aliasing but with the One X using the same GPU as the One but clocked much higher and with more CUs, I am assuming you two mean that it is less of an overhead rather than there being dedicated hardware?
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post #506 of 6727 Old 08-04-2017, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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It isn't though unless my Google Fu skills are lacking this morning. Care to help out?

GPU manufacturers are always looking to optimize in order to reduce the cost of anti-aliasing but with the One X using the same GPU as the One but clocked much higher and with more CUs, I am assuming you two mean that it is less of an overhead rather than there being dedicated hardware?
I'm just trying to correct some of your errors. It's not my job to be the repository of information and to do the googling... But here's a quick 5 second google... And another thing, the Xbox One X DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME GPU as the Xbox One. It's not merely higher clocked with more CUs as you say. It's a completely different generational architecture.

http://www.redgamingtech.com/xbox-on...-difficulties/

It would seem for many the memory bandwidth isn’t the concern, rather eSRAM’s size, which is as discussed is a paltry 32MB. This lack of memory would apparently be causing much of the resolution issues which have been plaguing the system. Respawn Interactive’s Richard Baker has recently spoken out to Eurogamer regarding Titanfall’s resolution being 792P and said “We’ve been experimenting with making it higher and lower. One of the big tricks is how much ESRAM we’re going to use, so we’re thinking of not using hardware MSAA and instead using FXAA to make it so we don’t have to have this larger render target.”
“We’re going to experiment. The target is either 1080p non-anti-aliased or 900p with FXAA. We’re trying to optimise… we don’t want to give up anything for higher res. So far we’re not 100 per cent happy with any of the options, we’re still working on it.”

It’s important to remember the rather large difference to memory that FXAA to MSAA can make. FXAA is ‘cheaper’ and provides better performance, but of course it’s also less accurate. MSAA doesn’t have the same blurry edges that are associated with FXAA, but FXAA is still better than no AA at all. While saying 1080P native would likely sound more impressive, visually FXAA would likely be the better looking of the two options (FXAA at 900P vs 1080P without any form of Anti-Aliasing).

http://wccftech.com/the-witcher-3-ps...hardware-msaa/

Balazs was asked about the anti-aliasing technology that the development team will use for the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One versions of the game, and he stated that while options are still being explored, it is quite clear that the hardware based MSAA won’t be used.

“We are still exploring some options regarding anti-aliasing but we are sure that it will be some kind of screen space anti-aliasing solution and not hardware MSAA.”
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post #507 of 6727 Old 08-04-2017, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post
I'm just trying to correct some of your errors. It's not my job to be the repository of information and to do the googling... But here's a quick 5 second google... And another thing, the Xbox One X DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME GPU as the Xbox One. It's not merely higher clocked with more CUs as you say. It's a completely different generational architecture.
Eesh, sorry, I seem to have struck a nerve and to clarify you corrected a single error (let alone multiple) and even then it wasn't a complete error, you just stated that they could enforce MSAA at a system level which I didn't challenge I only said to use other methods it can still could require a client update as there can still be compatibility issues.

The GPU is architecturally the same, and no need to yell. The CPU is slightly improved upon. This is information from Microsoft Xfest and it is exactly how I described it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post
http://www.redgamingtech.com/xbox-on...-difficulties/

It would seem for many the memory bandwidth isn’t the concern, rather eSRAM’s size, which is as discussed is a paltry 32MB. This lack of memory would apparently be causing much of the resolution issues which have been plaguing the system. Respawn Interactive’s Richard Baker has recently spoken out to Eurogamer regarding Titanfall’s resolution being 792P and said “We’ve been experimenting with making it higher and lower. One of the big tricks is how much ESRAM we’re going to use, so we’re thinking of not using hardware MSAA and instead using FXAA to make it so we don’t have to have this larger render target.”
“We’re going to experiment. The target is either 1080p non-anti-aliased or 900p with FXAA. We’re trying to optimise… we don’t want to give up anything for higher res. So far we’re not 100 per cent happy with any of the options, we’re still working on it.”

It’s important to remember the rather large difference to memory that FXAA to MSAA can make. FXAA is ‘cheaper’ and provides better performance, but of course it’s also less accurate. MSAA doesn’t have the same blurry edges that are associated with FXAA, but FXAA is still better than no AA at all. While saying 1080P native would likely sound more impressive, visually FXAA would likely be the better looking of the two options (FXAA at 900P vs 1080P without any form of Anti-Aliasing).
]

eSRAM is not in the Xbox One X so I am not sure how this article from three years ago is relevant it is just talking about how to leverage eSRAM which has always been a challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post
http://wccftech.com/the-witcher-3-ps...hardware-msaa/

Balazs was asked about the anti-aliasing technology that the development team will use for the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One versions of the game, and he stated that while options are still being explored, it is quite clear that the hardware based MSAA won’t be used.

“We are still exploring some options regarding anti-aliasing but we are sure that it will be some kind of screen space anti-aliasing solution and not hardware MSAA.”
This further reinforces my point. They are only discussing hardware based MSAA as far as using the GPU die.
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post #508 of 6727 Old 08-04-2017, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
It isn't though unless my Google Fu skills are lacking this morning. Care to help out?

GPU manufacturers are always looking to optimize in order to reduce the cost of anti-aliasing but with the One X using the same GPU as the One but clocked much higher and with more CUs, I am assuming you two mean that it is less of an overhead rather than there being dedicated hardware?

I don't recall seeing anything regarding antialiasing being in hardware or being "forced" to a better method. I do remember lots of talk around anistropic filtering being forced in hardware to be full 16x tho.

"We built into the hardware the capability of overwriting all bilinear and all trilinear fetches to be anisotropic," Andrew Goossen reveals. "And then we've dialled up the anisotropic all the way up to max. All of our titles by default when you're running on Scorpio, they'll be full anisotropic."

There were some changes to the DX12 command processor on the GPU to offload calls from the CPU to GPU as well but I can't find the articles I've read with the quick googling I've just done. Regardless, it should be obvious from the quote above that the GPU is not just an overclocked Xbox One GPU with more cores tacked on. They've "built into the hardware" more capabilities than the XB1 and XB1S currently have.
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post #509 of 6727 Old 08-04-2017, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Eesh, sorry, I seem to have struck a nerve and to clarify you corrected a single error (let alone multiple) and even then it wasn't a complete error, you just stated that they could enforce MSAA at a system level which I didn't challenge I only said to use other methods it can still could require a client update as there can still be compatibility issues.

The GPU is architecturally the same, and no need to yell. The CPU is slightly improved upon. This is information from Microsoft Xfest and it is exactly how I described it.

]

eSRAM is not in the Xbox One X so I am not sure how this article from three years ago is relevant it is just talking about how to leverage eSRAM which has always been a challenge.



This further reinforces my point. They are only discussing hardware based MSAA as far as using the GPU die.
your argument is all over the place. you're mixing Xbox One and Xbox One X information and trying to confuse everyone. You should really just stop conjecturing. You keep pushing a bad position rather than admitting you have been wrong.

The original Xbox One and Xbox One S have hardware MSAA. The Xbox One X does not have the same architecture and thus does not have the same hardware set. At the SYSTEM LEVEL (no developer intervention required), they said that they can substitute anisotropic filtering for the default filtering methods of the Xbox One and Xbox One S.

The GPU is not the same. That would be like saying Skylake is the same as Haswell, only clocked higher. All the engineers at AMD and Microsoft would be seriously offended that you dismissed their work as simply clocking the parts higher.

And if you have dev kits in the office, you should know plenty. Dev kits come with dev docs. They don't just drop off a kit at the office and tell people to just figure it all out.

and another thing. The PS4 Pro does not have a dual GPU setup. It is the Polaris architecture which is not merely a PS4 clocked higher.
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post #510 of 6727 Old 08-04-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Eesh, sorry, I seem to have struck a nerve and to clarify you corrected a single error (let alone multiple) and even then it wasn't a complete error, you just stated that they could enforce MSAA at a system level which I didn't challenge I only said to use other methods it can still could require a client update as there can still be compatibility issues.

The GPU is architecturally the same, and no need to yell. The CPU is slightly improved upon. This is information from Microsoft Xfest and it is exactly how I described it.

]

eSRAM is not in the Xbox One X so I am not sure how this article from three years ago is relevant it is just talking about how to leverage eSRAM which has always been a challenge.



This further reinforces my point. They are only discussing hardware based MSAA as far as using the GPU die.
your argument is all over the place. you're mixing Xbox One and Xbox One X information and trying to confuse everyone. You should really just stop conjecturing. You keep pushing a bad position rather than admitting you have been wrong.

The original Xbox One and Xbox One S have hardware MSAA. The Xbox One X does not have the same architecture and thus does not have the same hardware set. At the SYSTEM LEVEL (no developer intervention required), they said that they can substitute anisotropic filtering for the default filtering methods of the Xbox One and Xbox One S.

The GPU is not the same. That would be like saying Skylake is the same as Haswell, only clocked higher. All the engineers at AMD and Microsoft would be seriously offended that you dismissed their work as simply clocking the parts higher.

And if you have dev kits in the office, you should know plenty. Dev kits come with dev docs. They don't just drop off a kit at the office and tell people to just figure it all out.

and another thing. The PS4 Pro does not have a dual GPU setup. It is the Polaris architecture which is not merely a PS4 clocked higher.
Nah you're totally wrong. The Xbox One X is Jaguar based with customized cores and the GPU has customized CUs.

The PS4 Pro has mirrored GPU dies.

Listen man, I have three Xboxs, plan on getting at least one One X and have no horse in this race, just trying to educate.

Info on the dual GPUs in the Pro: https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/20/...-psvr-graphics

It seems your a rabid Xbox fan which is fine and you are taking my information like I'm saying bad things about the Xbox when I'm only supplying objective information. I've clearly struck a nerve and will leave you to believing whatever you'd like.

Last edited by mutelight; 08-04-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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