The Official Xbox One X thread - Page 206 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6151 of 6716 Old 11-11-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post



Looking at these pictures on my Sony A1E, which I use as a computer monitor,



Gregg Loewen, founder of the Professional Video Alliance and an official THX Calibration Certification instructor, E <.01


Wait you use an oled as a monitor? Windows 10? Just for gaming or for work? Burn in?

The point everyone is trying to make is RDR2 is fake hdr and you make it faker. It’s great you like it - I love how my Sony fakes HDR and wcg (XDR low, smooth gradation low).

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post #6152 of 6716 Old 11-11-2018, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolldog View Post



Looking at these pictures on my Sony A1E, which I use as a computer monitor,



Gregg Loewen, founder of the Professional Video Alliance and an official THX Calibration Certification instructor, E <.01


Wait you use an oled as a monitor? Windows 10? Just for gaming or for work? Burn in?

The point everyone is trying to make is RDR2 is fake hdr and you make it faker. It’s great you like it - I love how my Sony fakes HDR and wcg (XDR low, smooth gradation low).
I just use my Sony OLED A1E as a monitor. I used to have 4 4K monitors, and I would connect to different Virtual systems running cloud based software I use and have a different one on each monitor. Now, I use this OLED and divide the screen up into 4 different windows. I don't really do much gaming on my PC, but when I do, I use Gamestream or Moonlight to stream it to a TV or the projector in my media room. The pictures I took of RDR2 were taken in my media room, where I have a 4K laser projector, video processor, and a 155" 2.35 screen.

RDR2 definitely isn't true HDR, but it still shows more detail when set for HDR, not as much as Assassin's Creed, but more detail than running RDR2 in SDR, at least on my setup. Other people may see something else on their setup, but using a screen that's 13 feet wide, it's definitely noticeable.

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post #6153 of 6716 Old 11-11-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
Yes, the picture on the right is HDR. Both of these pictures were taken with the same exact camera, minutes apart from each other, with zero picture processing in a RAW format, not JPG. I used the exact same ISO, exact same exposure, exact same shutter speed, and exact same aperture, exact same lens, and each picture were taken minutes apart from each other.
Nope, both images have different ISO and shutter speeds, it can be easily seen in the JPG metadata on your pictures from your camera phone.

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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
The time of day has no impact on the difference between these two images. First of all, I have blackout roller shades plus heavy drapes that close on the outside of the roller shades. When these are closed, any time of day or night, you can’t see your hand in front of your face when the lights are turned off. Secondly, if ambient light were present, it would effect on both pictures to the same degree so any difference between the two images are still differences.
I was talking about time of day in game.

The shadows are softer and and different in the "HDR" shot and the sunlight is a warmer color temperature.


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The point of these pictures are strictly to demonstrate the difference between the two pictures using different settings, nothing else. These aren’t supposed to demonstrate a specific quality because that would be impossible. Looking at these pictures on my Sony A1E, which I use as a computer monitor, look horrible compared to how they look on my screen, but that’s not the point. Everyone who views these pictures will see something different. As a very basic example, if one person has the brightness of their display set to 100% and someone else has the brightness of their display set to 50%, obviously, the pictures will look completely different from each other, but if each person views both pictures side by side on their own display, it’s accurate unless no one can see a difference between the two. I’m not promoting one over another, nor am I trying to show that anyone is right about anything or wrong about anything, all I’m asking is if anyone can see a difference between the two.
I thought I recognized your name, you are the guy that flew in a guy to calibrate your A1E and he actually made it more inaccurate than out of the box.
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post #6154 of 6716 Old 11-11-2018, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
I just use my Sony OLED A1E as a monitor. I used to have 4 4K monitors, and I would connect to different Virtual systems running cloud based software I use and have a different one on each monitor. Now, I use this OLED and divide the screen up into 4 different windows. I don't really do much gaming on my PC, but when I do, I use Gamestream or Moonlight to stream it to a TV or the projector in my media room. The pictures I took of RDR2 were taken in my media room, where I have a 4K laser projector, video processor, and a 155" 2.35 screen.

RDR2 definitely isn't true HDR, but it still shows more detail when set for HDR, not as much as Assassin's Creed, but more detail than running RDR2 in SDR, at least on my setup. Other people may see something else on their setup, but using a screen that's 13 feet wide, it's definitely noticeable.


So no burn in using regular software on the oled?

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post #6155 of 6716 Old 11-13-2018, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
So no burn in using regular software on the oled?
No burn in. I have it set to turn off the screen after 10 minutes. However, I do have a little burn in on my LG W7 from the ticker tape on CNBC.

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post #6156 of 6716 Old 11-13-2018, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Nope, both images have different ISO and shutter speeds, it can be easily seen in the JPG metadata on your pictures from your camera phone.



I was talking about time of day in game.

The shadows are softer and and different in the "HDR" shot and the sunlight is a warmer color temperature.




I thought I recognized your name, you are the guy that flew in a guy to calibrate your A1E and he actually made it more inaccurate than out of the box.
Nope, he calibrated my A1E to a DeltaE of less than 1. It doesn’t get more accurate than that. It’s amazingly accurate on colors when I import pictures and 4K HDR video shot from my Sony A7R III

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post #6157 of 6716 Old 11-13-2018, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
Nope, he calibrated my A1E to a DeltaE of less than 1. It doesn’t get more accurate than that. It’s amazingly accurate on colors when I import pictures and 4K HDR video shot from my Sony A7R III
Your grayscale dE is .9 but the dE average for your color is 2.4. That's worse than out of the box which is about 1.9.

1 dE or less, the human eye can't detect the inaccuracies but your colors are more than double where they should be and .4 - .5 dE should be attainable.

*EDIT* This is pretty off topic now so I will drop this particular discussion. My main point was that two pictures from a smartphone with different ISO and shutter speeds is not a great way to compare the SDR vs HDR presentation coming out of a game engine.
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post #6158 of 6716 Old 11-14-2018, 04:39 AM
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All I get out of Rolldog's posts is that his AV equipment is better than ours and he wants us to know it.

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post #6159 of 6716 Old 11-14-2018, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by moepoker View Post
All I get out of Rolldog's posts is that his AV equipment is better than ours and he wants us to know it.


And that oled as a computer monitor, likely at SDR and low brightness, has less burn in than say a constant ticker symbol at higher bightness!

That was actually insightful. Makes sense

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post #6160 of 6716 Old 11-14-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Your grayscale dE is .9 but the dE average for your color is 2.4. That's worse than out of the box which is about 1.9.

1 dE or less, the human eye can't detect the inaccuracies but your colors are more than double where they should be and .4 - .5 dE should be attainable.

*EDIT* This is pretty off topic now so I will drop this particular discussion. My main point was that two pictures from a smartphone with different ISO and shutter speeds is not a great way to compare the SDR vs HDR presentation coming out of a game engine.
You're absolutely incorrect. The out of box color and greyscale on my A1E was off the charts. Wasn't even measurable.

This thread has got way off topic. The only thing I posted initially is two different screen shots of RDR2, one using the SDR settings and one using the HDR settings, that's it. All the other comments were regarding how inaccurate the pics are and people took the thread into a different direction from there since they didn't like the fact that the game using HDR settings is more detailed than SDR settings, even though the signal isn't true HDR. Just look at the two pictures and take from it whatever you wish. Obviously, the majority of the people here are just trolls trying to be argumentative about anything anyone has to say because all they do is sit home, play video games, and try to make themselves feel better because their social awkwardness. Just look at the pictures between the two settings and move on.

I said from the beginning that RDR2 was fake HDR, but regardless of it being fake HDR, it still shows more detail, especially from eliminating the hazy look of the game. Some people will agree and some won't. The best picture anyone can get will be up to their own eyes on their own equipment. Excuse me, but I now I need to get back to work.

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post #6161 of 6716 Old 11-15-2018, 03:07 AM
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Can the Xbox 1x / 1s be controlled thru Siri via Apple HomeKit?
If so what’s the process.


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post #6162 of 6716 Old 11-15-2018, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
You're absolutely incorrect. The out of box color and greyscale on my A1E was off the charts. Wasn't even measurable.

This thread has got way off topic. The only thing I posted initially is two different screen shots of RDR2, one using the SDR settings and one using the HDR settings, that's it. All the other comments were regarding how inaccurate the pics are and people took the thread into a different direction from there since they didn't like the fact that the game using HDR settings is more detailed than SDR settings, even though the signal isn't true HDR. Just look at the two pictures and take from it whatever you wish. Obviously, the majority of the people here are just trolls trying to be argumentative about anything anyone has to say because all they do is sit home, play video games, and try to make themselves feel better because their social awkwardness. Just look at the pictures between the two settings and move on.

I said from the beginning that RDR2 was fake HDR, but regardless of it being fake HDR, it still shows more detail, especially from eliminating the hazy look of the game. Some people will agree and some won't. The best picture anyone can get will be up to their own eyes on their own equipment. Excuse me, but I now I need to get back to work.

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As an owner of that TV and having read many reviews, I'm not but let's drop that.

Listen, all people were trying to do was help you get the most accurate image. The fact of the matter is that RDR 2 is fully rendered in SDR and when you output the game in HDR all it does is put the SDR image in a larger HDR container. That's it, no difference in rendering, graphical features or anything, it just gets dumped in the container at the end of the line. We tried to help you get the most accurate image but you got defensive like your gear was being attacked when you seemed to not fundamentally understand what was being said. (Hence you liking a post where someone was paraphrasing what I was saying but jumping down my throat.)

You made the assumption that you were taking photos in RAW with all the same settings when it can be seen in your JPG metadata that was absolutely not the case, hence skewing information. You also went as far to claim the same lens, etc. when you used a Galaxy S8+ smartphone. I also pointed out that your ISO, shutter speed, and time of day in game in your pictures were all different but apparently pointing out facts are "argumentative" to you. (Also, just FYI, your GPS metadata is attached to your JPGs so you may want to strip that.) The shadows, time of day lighting color temperature and level of atmospheric haze are different in your two pictures.

You’re now on the defense making more false assumptions about peoples' intent and trying to make broad stroke attacks. Perhaps you should dial back all your assumptions? They’re leading you down a path of fallacies and making you look silly.

People are just correcting your misinformation, helping you get the most accurate image and are not trying to be argumentative, rather have a discussion and point out facts.

As far as people sitting at home all day, playing video games, I wish I was the case but the development discipline I work on is in charge of our game's engine, so I don't have that luxury.
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post #6163 of 6716 Old 11-15-2018, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Can the Xbox 1x / 1s be controlled thru Siri via Apple HomeKit?
If so what’s the process.


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The Xbox can only currently be controlled via the Amazon Echo.

I love my HomePods in the kitchen and night stand and they're super quick to respond to home automation asks but unfortunately are quite limited functionality wise.
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post #6164 of 6716 Old 11-18-2018, 04:41 PM
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Standard or PC RGB for an LG OLED?


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post #6165 of 6716 Old 11-18-2018, 09:37 PM
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Standard or PC RGB for an LG OLED?


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post #6166 of 6716 Old 11-20-2018, 05:33 AM
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Thanks I am also going to have it connected to my surround sound system with a 5.2.4 setup along with my Samsung F8500 plasma that has great blacks. In fact the F8500 rivals some of todays 4K TV's with HDR capabilities except for OLED's of course.

I'm about to see. OLED on the way. It has big shoes to fill. My F8500 60" is near perfect. Zero uniformity issues. I can pause a game or show for an hour and not see ANY image retention and I'm very sensitive to such things. I have never seen image retention on this panel with all my gaming and PC use. It's nuts. My Panasonics weren't that good. It's been my best TV for near 5 years now. I'm taking a chance with OLED as I can't look at LCD without seeing it's issues, even qled. So I'm either going to be on here one day saying @#[email protected]% burn in is for real on OLED or you'll never hear from me again. Because I'm only ever discussing TV's on here when I'm looking to solve a problem or looking for a new one. I've learned to buy whatever I decide from reading AVS and other sites, but once I buy it, stay away.
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post #6167 of 6716 Old 11-20-2018, 05:51 AM
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I'm about to see. OLED on the way. It has big shoes to fill. My F8500 60" is near perfect. Zero uniformity issues. I can pause a game or show for an hour and not see ANY image retention and I'm very sensitive to such things. I have never seen image retention on this panel with all my gaming and PC use. It's nuts. My Panasonics weren't that good. It's been my best TV for near 5 years now. I'm taking a chance with OLED as I can't look at LCD without seeing it's issues, even qled. So I'm either going to be on here one day saying @#[email protected]% burn in is for real on OLED or you'll never hear from me again. Because I'm only ever discussing TV's on here when I'm looking to solve a problem or looking for a new one. I've learned to buy whatever I decide from reading AVS and other sites, but once I buy it, stay away.
Great choice on the OLED. I am sure if the black level is super on the F8500 it will be even better on an OLED. I will not buy a tv unless it's OLED but I am waiting on price drops. I agree the uniformity on LED/LCD are bad especially if viewing at an angle. I agree all my Panasonic Plasmas leave temporary image retention. I haven't noticed any on the F85. Good luck with your OLED.
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post #6168 of 6716 Old 11-20-2018, 10:00 AM
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For those who asked, I updated the LG 2017 OLEDs Calibrated Settings for X1X (and for Gaming in general) adding Option 1 and Option 2 for both SDR/HDR:


Please also note that:
  • If you prefer Option 2 ("non-PC"), remember to adjust again all in-game HDR sliders around 4.000 nits when possible (or re-hide in-game logos);
  • Both SDR/HDR Option 2 ("non-PC") profiles' Sharpness is now set to 20 as, differently than Technicolor/ISF, 20 is its neutral value instead of 10;
  • HDR Game Color of Option 2 ("non-PC") is back to its default of 65 instead of 55 as, differently than Technicolor, 65 is the color match between those profiles
  • HDR Game Dynamic Contrast of Option 2 ("non-PC") is back to MEDIUM for the best accuracy/luminance ratio.
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post #6169 of 6716 Old 11-20-2018, 12:16 PM
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So how do you know when to set the color to WIDE vs AUTO? Just wondering cause I see different calibrators with different selections.

So when i'm viewing HDR content should it be on WIDE or AUTO? I always thought it should be WIDE because thats the point of having a WIDE color gamut HDR TV.

I'm just looking for someone knowledgeable to fill me in here.


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post #6170 of 6716 Old 11-20-2018, 01:28 PM
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Just got my One X and a Samsung NU8000 yesterday and having issues with HDR and Game Mode not co-existing (my base PS4 has same issue).

I am able to turn on Game Mode, but that leaves HDMI UHD COLOR (ie, HDR) greyed-out (though there is still a checkmark next to it), for both the PS4 and XBOX One X. If I turn off Game Mode, that checkmark under HDMI UHD COLOR turns solid and is no longer greyed out. I am concerned that turning on Game Mode effectively means I do not have HDR activated, which is essentially what HDMI UHD COLOR is. I have not been able to verify whether you can't have HDR and Game Mode running at the same time on the NU8000 series.

Also, on the One X, I don't get why Game Motion Plus settings can't be accessed at all, whether I am in Game Mode or not....it's greyed out completely. For whatever reason, Game Motion Plus settings ARE accessible for my PS4.

People talk about "HDR Game Mode" Settings but I don't even see any specific settings for this. Again, they don't seem to be able to be activated together, at least not on my TV.

EDIT: I called up Samsung Tech Support just now and the guy seemed really hesitant and put me on hold for awhile and came back and said you can't have HDR (HDMI UHD color) on at the same time as Game Mode. I also asked him why the One X can't access the Game Motion Plus settings with or without Game Mode when my base PS4 can and he had no answer for that.

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post #6171 of 6716 Old 11-20-2018, 11:54 PM
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Hello everyone,

I would like to share my final set of professionally Calibrated Settings for all LG 2017 OLEDs and Xbox One X gaming, with the best PQ and lowest Input-Lag results possible (21ms), including Dolby Vision and webOS in-built Apps calibration.
Also White Balance and CMS were accurately tuned when possible , plus there is a special custom calibration for Dolby Vision (more details below)


Any differences in applying these settings with black level high / full rgb settings?
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post #6172 of 6716 Old 11-21-2018, 12:07 AM
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Any differences in applying these settings with black level high / full rgb settings?
Yes, as these TVs are meant to be used with Standard Color Space + Black Level: Low.

If you switch with Full RGB + High, SDR will look ok but you won't be able to get native HDR10 due to HDMI 2.0 bandwidth limitation.
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post #6173 of 6716 Old 11-21-2018, 01:48 AM
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My new One X is outputting 59hz instead of 60 when using Freesync, according to the info I see on my Samsung NU8000 TV when the input for that HDMI is displayed. Anyone ever experience this? Does it matter much?

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post #6174 of 6716 Old 11-21-2018, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Freaky View Post
My new One X is outputting 59hz instead of 60 when using Freesync, according to the info I see on my Samsung NU8000 TV when the input for that HDMI is displayed. Anyone ever experience this? Does it matter much?
My Q9 also said 59 Hz when displaying FreeSync, I wouldn't worry about it
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post #6175 of 6716 Old 11-21-2018, 11:45 AM
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My Q9 also said 59 Hz when displaying FreeSync, I wouldn't worry about it
Ok, thanks...
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post #6176 of 6716 Old 11-23-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Freaky View Post
My new One X is outputting 59hz instead of 60 when using Freesync, according to the info I see on my Samsung NU8000 TV when the input for that HDMI is displayed. Anyone ever experience this? Does it matter much?
Are you sure it's not outputting 59.94hz and just truncating the decimal?
This is what my Onkyo receiver does. The content is not actually 60hz but 59.94 hz. And it truncates the decimals showing 59Hz.

Just like 24 hz content is actually 23.976. And my Onkyo will truncate the decimals and show 23hz.

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post #6177 of 6716 Old 11-23-2018, 10:45 AM
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Based on my experience with Samsung TVs, it typically displays 59Hz when it detects standard video signal, e.g. limited video range. It will display 60Hz when it detects a PC signal, e.g. full range. In reality, it is probably the same exact same 59.94 signal.

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post #6178 of 6716 Old 11-23-2018, 01:27 PM
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Are you sure it's not outputting 59.94hz and just truncating the decimal?
This is what my Onkyo receiver does. The content is not actually 60hz but 59.94 hz. And it truncates the decimals showing 59Hz.

Just like 24 hz content is actually 23.976. And my Onkyo will truncate the decimals and show 23hz.
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post
Based on my experience with Samsung TVs, it typically displays 59Hz when it detects standard video signal, e.g. limited video range. It will display 60Hz when it detects a PC signal, e.g. full range. In reality, it is probably the same exact same 59.94 signal.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
Yeah, I'm not sure if it's outputting 59.94, but the info (when the TV displays it, which is not often on my buggy Samsung NU8000) just says 59hz. I'm sure it's ok but was just curious about that.

BTW, anyone have any issues with the One X not powering on when connected to a surge protector? I have read about these issues but I have a buddy who has had his connected to a surge protector for months and had no problems at all. With me, it sometimes doesn't power on using the controller or it does power on for a few seconds, the Xbox logo appears on the screen, and then it immediately powers down. Using a highly-rated APC SurgeArrest model.
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post #6179 of 6716 Old 11-23-2018, 04:14 PM
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I've never had a problem with any of my Xboxes and a surge protector. They have always been connected to a surge protector. And the surge protector has always been connected to a UPS. I've been doing this since 2005 with the 360 and it never caused any issues with the dozen or so Xboxes I have owned since then.
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post #6180 of 6716 Old 11-24-2018, 12:49 AM
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Has anyone ever had their Xbox one x randomly fail to scale the screen correctly and show text all pixelated?
Mine has done this twice now, wondering if it’s a software issue or a sign of impeding doom and I should exchange units while I can.

Not my picture, but this is what it looks likes like when it happens.
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