The Official Xbox One X thread - Page 209 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3644Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #6241 of 6727 Old 12-04-2018, 07:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
hdtv00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ill
Posts: 2,115
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 275 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazzo1980 View Post
I will try another cable and let you know. Thank you




How do I check if the Denon Enhanced HDMI setting is enabled? I will try your suggestion as well.


Thank you to both for your help.

It's in the video section under


4K Signal Format change it to enhanced instead of Standard.



I looked it up in the online manual. He's right that turns on 10 bit 4k video which I'm sure includes HDR.

Marantz 7702MKII/Outlaw 7140 65" 4k Samsung KS8000
i7 4770K/16 gig 2133/970's SLI 840 PRO SSD
Paradigm Studio v3 100/570/20's/470's/2200 Sub
hdtv00 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #6242 of 6727 Old 12-05-2018, 04:30 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post
It's in the video section under


4K Signal Format change it to enhanced instead of Standard.



I looked it up in the online manual. He's right that turns on 10 bit 4k video which I'm sure includes HDR.
Thank you, will try all the above and post my findings.
cazzo1980 is offline  
post #6243 of 6727 Old 12-05-2018, 06:15 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by camd5pt0 View Post
I can help, I actually haven't had and issue with my resolution. I used the cable that came with the Xbox and and a premium cable from Amazon. Both work.
Also uhd color enabled on all HDMI on TV.
Denon enhanced HDMI setting enabled on it. Can you try bypassing the Denon straight to the TV? This might show it's your cable. That is what I'm betting on.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Low and behold, it was the setting on my denon, I had the video set to standard, soon as I set it to enhanced bamn, worked!


I have added pics!


Another question, in expert settings do you use game or HDR+ mode for your gaming?


Thank you to all who chimed in and helped me out with this.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20181205_205413.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	902.1 KB
ID:	2492292   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181205_205748.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	770.6 KB
ID:	2492294   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181205_205900.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	766.9 KB
ID:	2492296   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181205_210001.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	457.7 KB
ID:	2492298  
JudgeSmails and camd5pt0 like this.
cazzo1980 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #6244 of 6727 Old 12-06-2018, 01:56 PM
Senior Member
 
P40L0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 110
LAST LG 2017 OLEDs + X1X/webOS CALIBRATION EDIT:

  • V4 / (non-PC) HDR Game Mode was finally fixed by LG starting with Official Firmware 5.80.10, and is now the recommended method for X1X HDR Calibration
  • SDR/HDR Color Temperature is back to W50 in order to get as close as possible to calibrated HDR Technicolor Expert colors
  • Recommended HDR Luminance in games' slider (if available) is now 4.000 nits
  • SDR webOS Gamma is now BT.1886 ("GAMMA1" or "HIGH1" for SDR Game)

More info -> here

Last edited by P40L0; 12-08-2018 at 03:47 PM.
P40L0 is offline  
post #6245 of 6727 Old 12-06-2018, 02:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
WilliamG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,637
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1518 Post(s)
Liked: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
LAST LG 2017 OLEDs + X1X/webOS CALIBRATION EDIT:

  • V4 / (non-PC) HDR Game Mode was finally fixed by LG starting with Official Firmware 5.80.10, and is now the recommended method for X1X HDR Calibration
  • SDR/HDR Color Temperature is back to W50 in order to get as close as possible to calibrated HDR Technicolor Expert colors
  • Recommended HDR Luminance in games' slider (if available) is now 4.000 nits
  • SDR webOS Gamma is now BT.1886 ("GAMMA1" for SDR Game)

More info -> here
How do we get this on USA models?
WilliamG is offline  
post #6246 of 6727 Old 12-09-2018, 01:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,348
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1596 Post(s)
Liked: 969
Theres a certain closed alpha going on right now. I will say it looks great on X and with HDR its amazing...

LG65C9, XBOX ONE X, PS4PRO, APPLE 4K, SONY STRDN1070, TAKE CLASSIC 5.1
helvetica bold is offline  
post #6247 of 6727 Old 12-09-2018, 01:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
ROMIL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 687
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Theres a certain closed alpha going on right now. I will say it looks great on X and with HDR its amazing...


Hmm...Anthem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ROMIL is offline  
post #6248 of 6727 Old 12-09-2018, 05:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
hdtv00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ill
Posts: 2,115
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 275 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazzo1980 View Post
Another question, in expert settings do you use game or HDR+ mode for your gaming?

HDR+ should never be used if you ask me. It's a fake HDR mode for non HDR content. Use game mode. The thing that REALLY sucks with the KS8000 is if the content isn't full 60 fps, which almost no xbox one x game is , it causes serious motion issues when panning. But still a nice display for gaming and real nice HDR.

Marantz 7702MKII/Outlaw 7140 65" 4k Samsung KS8000
i7 4770K/16 gig 2133/970's SLI 840 PRO SSD
Paradigm Studio v3 100/570/20's/470's/2200 Sub
hdtv00 is offline  
post #6249 of 6727 Old 12-11-2018, 08:26 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Hello All,

which is the best HDMI cable for XBOX ONE X to pass 4k HDR10+? Thanks in advance!
gakbw is offline  
post #6250 of 6727 Old 12-11-2018, 08:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mutelight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,195
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2184 Post(s)
Liked: 2467
Quote:
Originally Posted by gakbw View Post
Hello All,

which is the best HDMI cable for XBOX ONE X to pass 4k HDR10+? Thanks in advance!
The cable that came with the Xbox or a Certified Premium 18Gbps cable.
Kev Greenhalgh likes this.
mutelight is offline  
post #6251 of 6727 Old 12-11-2018, 08:46 AM
UHD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 35,425
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8970 Post(s)
Liked: 5751
Quote:
Originally Posted by gakbw View Post
Hello All,

which is the best HDMI cable for XBOX ONE X to pass 4k HDR10+? Thanks in advance!
I thought the Xbox only had HDR10 and Dolby Vision? Not HDR10+?

My premium certified HDMi cables from Monoprice with my Xboxes for HDR. The same as my other UHD/HDR devices.

Sent from my Nexus 7(16GB) using Tapatalk

49TB unRAID1a--53TB unRAID2--73TB unRAID3
TCL 6 Series--Sony UBP-X800--Philips BDP7502--Onkyo HT-S7800
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline  
post #6252 of 6727 Old 12-11-2018, 08:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 7,266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
LAST LG 2017 OLEDs + X1X/webOS CALIBRATION EDIT:

  • V4 / (non-PC) HDR Game Mode was finally fixed by LG starting with Official Firmware 5.80.10, and is now the recommended method for X1X HDR Calibration
  • SDR/HDR Color Temperature is back to W50 in order to get as close as possible to calibrated HDR Technicolor Expert colors
  • Recommended HDR Luminance in games' slider (if available) is now 4.000 nits
  • SDR webOS Gamma is now BT.1886 ("GAMMA1" or "HIGH1" for SDR Game)

More info -> here
My firmware is like 5.7 with no updates. Where are you getting 5.80.10?
b_scott is offline  
post #6253 of 6727 Old 12-11-2018, 01:18 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Thank you👍
gakbw is offline  
post #6254 of 6727 Old 12-11-2018, 01:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Yes! You are correct HDR10 only!
gakbw is offline  
post #6255 of 6727 Old 12-11-2018, 10:31 PM
Senior Member
 
P40L0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Very small tweak for calibrated 2017 LG OLED's HDR Game mode:

  • V4.1: HDR Game Color value slightly tuned down from 65 to 62 to be even more closer to calibrated HDR Technicolor


More info and all settings here
P40L0 is offline  
post #6256 of 6727 Old 12-12-2018, 10:53 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hi guys,

My Xbox one X is set to Atmos. But sometimes it get back to Stereo setting.

Am I doing it wrong?

Best Regards,
piiii is offline  
post #6257 of 6727 Old 12-12-2018, 11:13 AM
UHD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 35,425
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8970 Post(s)
Liked: 5751
Quote:
Originally Posted by piiii View Post
Hi guys,

My Xbox one X is set to Atmos. But sometimes it get back to Stereo setting.

Am I doing it wrong?

Best Regards,
No idea. I've read about some people having that issue. But personally, my XB1X stays on the Atmos setting.

49TB unRAID1a--53TB unRAID2--73TB unRAID3
TCL 6 Series--Sony UBP-X800--Philips BDP7502--Onkyo HT-S7800
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline  
post #6258 of 6727 Old 12-12-2018, 12:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
david8613's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: bloomfield nj
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked: 67
hi guys, big ps4/Nintendo switch person here. I haven't messed with xbox since the red ring of death days, I know a long time ago. anyway I recently purchased a Samsung 82" un8000 4k tv. I decided tomorrow I will purchase an xbox box one x, anything special I should know about or do with setttings when I get this system? what is the best game and movie to demo on this?
david8613 is offline  
post #6259 of 6727 Old 12-12-2018, 01:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
mattztt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Provo, UT
Posts: 633
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by david8613 View Post
hi guys, big ps4/Nintendo switch person here. I haven't messed with xbox since the red ring of death days, I know a long time ago. anyway I recently purchased a Samsung 82" un8000 4k tv. I decided tomorrow I will purchase an xbox box one x, anything special I should know about or do with setttings when I get this system? what is the best game and movie to demo on this?
Assassin's Creed: Odyssey is a great game for wringing it out.

If you get Red Dead Redemption 2 (which is a great game) be aware that there are issues with its HDR support. You'll want to Google that to get a handle on how to best present it on your TV. Most recommend actually disabling HDR on your system when playing the game.

A few movies that are commonly recommended for high quality 4K content: Lucy, Logan Lucky, Passengers
mattztt is offline  
post #6260 of 6727 Old 12-13-2018, 12:31 AM
Senior Member
 
P40L0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 110
An update for LG 2017 OLEDs - Calibrated Settings for Xbox One X / Gaming:

  • Added V5 - EXPERIMENTAL HDR Game profile tuned for HIGH Dynamic Contrast: it's a totally new proposal for a MUCH brighter HDR (even more bright than HDR Technicolor with Active HDR) trying also to eredicate most of HIGH DC negative effects and be as accurate as possible at the same time. FEEDBACK IS WELCOMED

To eliminate/compensate HIGH Dynamic Contrast negative effects on PQ:

EDIT (14/12/2018):
  • Raised Brightness from 50 to 53: this will fix most introduced black crush, while some will remain very slightly. It's the highest value that can be set before loosing "perfect blacks" of OLEDs;
  • Color Gamut set from Auto to WIDE + Color 44: when DC is set to High, I noticed that Auto color gamut will suddenly show wrong/muted colors (especially muted oranges/yellows and magenta) and all of them become undersaturated. Switching to WIDE made oranges/yellows back to normal, and considering WIDE is oversaturated with same settings compared to Auto, setting its Color to 44 gave back a very comparable accuracy to Technicolor
  • Color Temperature is back to W50

I'm very impressed by far with this new experiment, as I was able to achieve an even brighter image than HDR Technicolor with Active HDR, but with no highlights clipping (typical of PC HDR Standard) and mostly accurate colors. The only visible downside is a very very slight black crush, that can not be fixed without losing also perfect blacks, but it's not bad at all.

Both Battlefield V and Forza Horizon 4 look mind blowing with this new setup, but any FEEDBACK to further improve it is always welcomed.

Give it a spin and let me know what you think
Kev Greenhalgh likes this.

Last edited by P40L0; 12-14-2018 at 05:18 AM.
P40L0 is offline  
post #6261 of 6727 Old 12-13-2018, 12:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Hey! Does your Xbox One X disc drives make the console vibrate heavily when installing games? Just got mine and installed red dead redemption 2 on it. First disk was ok but when installing second disk the console vibrated so much i had to put something under it to bear with the noise. Otherwise its very quiet. Is this normal?
Jaxione is offline  
post #6262 of 6727 Old 12-14-2018, 11:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Noticed one more thing when playing Red Dead Redemption. The fans seems go pulsate Up and down which makes fan noise a little annoying. Is this normal?
Jaxione is offline  
post #6263 of 6727 Old 12-14-2018, 08:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sjchmura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 5,440
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2316 Post(s)
Liked: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Theres a certain closed alpha going on right now. I will say it looks great on X and with HDR its amazing...


If the game had an anthem, what would it be?
helvetica bold likes this.

DocACE911 on Steam, XBOX, PS4
"Kill Cancer or Die"
Custom Z9 Game Settings For SDR and HDR
Sony 75" Z9, Denon X4200, Definitive Technologies BP7002 + 9.1 ATMOS, PSV 18" sub
Loving Wife and 4 year old Son who tolerate this expense!
sjchmura is offline  
post #6264 of 6727 Old 12-15-2018, 10:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mutelight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,195
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2184 Post(s)
Liked: 2467
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
If the game had an anthem, what would it be?
It is all about the Division 2 Alpha this weekend.
helvetica bold likes this.
mutelight is offline  
post #6265 of 6727 Old 12-15-2018, 12:33 PM
Senior Member
 
P40L0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 110
LAST EDIT TO LG 2017 OLEDs SDR/HDR Game Modes:

  • V5.2 / (non-PC) HDR Game Mode is now the recommended option for X1X HDR Calibration (with Color back to 48 to counter some color washing added by DC, e.g. fixing "vampire skins")
  • SDR (All modes) recommended Gamma is back to 2.2 / MEDIUM (to counter noticeable black crush in movies)
  • V5 - EXPERIMENTAL promoted as the recommended HDR Game profile

More info -> Here

Last edited by P40L0; 12-15-2018 at 01:33 PM.
P40L0 is offline  
post #6266 of 6727 Old 12-15-2018, 02:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,348
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1596 Post(s)
Liked: 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
It is all about the Division 2 Alpha this weekend.


PC only :/ Blink twice if you got in...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LG65C9, XBOX ONE X, PS4PRO, APPLE 4K, SONY STRDN1070, TAKE CLASSIC 5.1
helvetica bold is offline  
post #6267 of 6727 Old 12-15-2018, 02:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mutelight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,195
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2184 Post(s)
Liked: 2467
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
pc only :/ blink twice if you got in...


Sent from my iphone using tapatalk
o_o -_- o_o -_- o_o
helvetica bold likes this.
mutelight is offline  
post #6268 of 6727 Old 12-16-2018, 12:35 PM
Senior Member
 
P40L0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 110
LG 2017 OLEDs - HDR Game Mode - DEFINITIVE CALIBRATION:

  • NEW V5.3 / (non-PC) HDR Game Mode is now the recommended option for X1X/PS4 Pro HDR Calibration
  • SDR (All Modes) recommended Gamma is back to 2.2 / MEDIUM
  • Recommended HDR Luminance in games' slider (if available) is now 4.000 nits

+

  • Stealth HDR Game mode minor update up V5.3.2
  • Also updated all non-Game profiles enabling TruMotion with De-Judder: 0 + De-Blur: 0 to fix introduced motion stuttering on 60hz contents after firmware 5.80.xx (both SDR/HDR Game modes are not affected)
^^

More info and all calibrated presets available -> here


That's it folks.
As per "Definitive" tag, I really finished my ammo on LG 2017 OLED Series this time and I won't make any further tests after these results.

The only way to add improvement on top of this would be by LG to add real Dynamic Tonemapping also for 7 series (but probably this will never happen).

Until then, thanks everyone for all the feedback, it was an epic ride.

Make your HDR games scream! >:]
OddyOh, Mike_WI and Kev Greenhalgh like this.

Last edited by P40L0; 12-18-2018 at 11:08 AM.
P40L0 is offline  
post #6269 of 6727 Old 12-22-2018, 10:09 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Hi guys, brand new to 4K, Atmos, and Xbox, all received in the last few weeks.

Any Samsung Q9FN TV, N850/N950 soundbar owners in here?

Getting the dreaded “0x80bd0009” error on Xbox when I try to activate Dolby Atmos audio.

I connected my Xbox directly to TV and TV to soundbar (ARC to ARC). I previously connected Xbox to soundbar and didn’t like the lack of integration with the TV so I want my cake and eat it, too! Lol.

I can’t set my Xbox’s HDMI audio to “Bitstream out” and my TV also can’t output to DD/DD+; its stuck on PCM with the other options grayed out.

So frustrating when you spend thousands of dollars and can’t have a stress-free experience. Might have to return all the Samsung products like others have done and get items better integrated with the Xbox audio/visual experience. Shoulda done my homework on this forum before pulling any triggers!
fayraree is offline  
post #6270 of 6727 Old 12-22-2018, 11:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DaverJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 9,722
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1767 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by fayraree View Post
Hi guys, brand new to 4K, Atmos, and Xbox, all received in the last few weeks.

Any Samsung Q9FN TV, N850/N950 soundbar owners in here?

Getting the dreaded “0x80bd0009” error on Xbox when I try to activate Dolby Atmos audio.

I connected my Xbox directly to TV and TV to soundbar (ARC to ARC). I previously connected Xbox to soundbar and didn’t like the lack of integration with the TV so I want my cake and eat it, too! Lol.

I can’t set my Xbox’s HDMI audio to “Bitstream out” and my TV also can’t output to DD/DD+; its stuck on PCM with the other options grayed out.

So frustrating when you spend thousands of dollars and can’t have a stress-free experience. Might have to return all the Samsung products like others have done and get items better integrated with the Xbox audio/visual experience. Shoulda done my homework on this forum before pulling any triggers!
My guess is connecting the Xbox to the TV, the TV isn’t recognized as an Atmos device.

What integration are you missing with the TV when connecting Xbox to the soundbar?
DaverJ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Xbox Area

Tags
enhanced , xbox one x

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off