PS3 model CECH-3000 has another feature removed - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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This doesn't effect those who own HDTV with HDCP support through HDMI.

But for some that still has the first generation of HDTV that only has component video input, CECH-3000 will not allow HD video such as Blu-ray movies in 720p or 1080i.

It's unknown if PS3 games are allowed to play in 720p or 1080i through component video as anything above 480p is technically "HD video". As with older models, let's hope Sony doesn't put the same restriction in the firmware update later as "Analog Sunset" rule doesn't require it as far as I know.

Another feature removed as PS3 hardware gets revised.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=30516
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post #2 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 03:22 PM
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Did they take out the BD Drive yet?
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post #3 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 03:28 PM
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Updating their models to comply with rules set forth by a governing body?

That's just low Sony.

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post #4 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by coneyparleg View Post

Did they take out the BD Drive yet?

No, I think they didnt want to spend the extra money on the special nail removal tool needed for that.
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post #5 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

But for some that still has the first generation of HDTV that only has component video input, CECH-3000 will not allow HD video such as Blu-ray movies in 720p or 1080i.
Well you have had five years to prepare for that. Like the Other OS, this will affect 0.1% of people and cause a ***** storm of forum posts by more Sony hating idiots and pirates..

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post #6 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 04:13 PM
 
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Man, it sure is a good thing that you can't just drop a Bluray in your PC and rip it with minimal effort. This is totally going to stop all of the pirates ripping BD by playing it in real-time from their PS3 and capturing the analog video with their 720p component capture devices.

Anti-piracy win!
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post #7 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 04:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tgable View Post
Well you have had five years to prepare for that. Like the Other OS, this will affect 0.1% of people and cause a ***** storm of forum posts by more Sony hating idiots and pirates..
Yup.

The SXRD XBR2 threads gave me a heart attack 6 months after my purchase. Here I am 5 years later and the picture is a nice as ever, and I've had zero problems over two bulbs. The failure rates might be higher then industry norms for the TV, but the threads would have you believe you have better then a 50/50 of failure.

People need to realize that the internet reviews and problems threads are skewered to those that had problems. Like life, people look for a shoulder to lean on, and a ear to bitch to. No problem and people don't run out to say everything's fine.

As far as the topic on hand, time for an upgrade or to live with your choice. The standards are there, and they're only now enforcing them after a rather long grace period. Unfortunately, that's the life of an early adopter. One of the reasons I'm not jumping on the 3d bandwagon yet.

As for being like other OS? No, since it effects units going forward. No one had an issue until they took something away that we already paid for in our current models.
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post #8 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tgable View Post
Well you have had five years to prepare for that. Like the Other OS, this will affect 0.1% of people and cause a ***** storm of forum posts by more Sony hating idiots and pirates..
There are a lot more component video only HDTV owners than Other OS users.

The dumb part about "analog sunset" enforcement is pirates already has a way to decrypt Blu-ray movies and will continue to do it. It's more of marketing strategy to ensure those who still hasn't bought a newer HDTV with HDCP will have to buy a new HDTV even they are still happy with their old HDTV. That's the beauty of "digital media". Don't want to upgrade, they can force you to update eventually by forcing a new encryption rule to make your old device incompatible.

I have a friend who has an expensive theater projector that only has component video input. It's not cheap to replace the project just because "analog sunset" demands it. The trick is buy "HD players" this year while the players are still allowed to play 1080i through component video output and hope the old HDTV gives out before the player goes out.
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post #9 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 04:44 PM
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Huh is this a change? I thought it was always that way? ie bluray discs output at standard def and only games and O/S at HD
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post #10 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post
It's unknown if PS3 games are allowed to play in 720p or 1080i through component video as anything above 480p is technically "HD video". As with older models, let's hope Sony doesn't put the same restriction in the firmware update later as "Analog Sunset" rule doesn't require it as far as I know.
I think the restriction only applies to Blu-rays since it supposively is to stop the pirating of movies.
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post #11 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 04:54 PM
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It used to be "no upscaling of copy-protected material over component". Again, this is not a Sony thing. No need to blame them.
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post #12 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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As "Analog Sunset" requires 720p or higher resolution to have HDCP over HDMI, doesn't that also applies to download and streaming videos in HD?

Sony probably has their hands in writing the "Analog Sunset" rules several years ago as they are always paranoid in putting copy protection on everything.
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post #13 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 05:56 PM
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It's sad to read all the comments from people who drank the corporate Kool-Aid. This isn't a valid anti-piracy tactic, because as others have mentioned, anyone with half a brain cell can already rip a Blu-Ray at full resolution. All this does is punish early adopters and force them to upgrade their A/V system early.

Until my previous TV died, I was component-only, 1080i-only. I had to nab an external scaler to deal with the PS3's inexcusable 720p-only problem. Like many early adopters, I'm the kind of guy that actually buys all my games, CDs, and Blu-Rays. My purchases help make it possible for others to get the same tech a lot cheaper a few years down the road. And yet when a company makes a boneheaded decision that punishes their best customers, mainstream adopters are the first to say "buy a new TV". Give me a break.

My current TV handles all resolutions, HDMI, etc., so I'm not personally affected by this, but I can understand the ire of people who are. No way in hell I'm going to upgrade to 3D anytime soon after seeing this kind of crap repeat itself over and over again...

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post #14 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 06:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jhaines View Post
It's sad to read all the comments from people who drank the corporate Kool-Aid. This isn't a valid anti-piracy tactic, because as others have mentioned, anyone with half a brain cell can already rip a Blu-Ray at full resolution. All this does is punish early adopters and force them to upgrade their A/V system early.
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No kidding. It's a legal requirement.

Right or wrong, Sony has to honor the deal they signed.
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post #15 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 07:37 PM
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No kidding. It's a legal requirement.

Right or wrong, Sony has to honor the deal they signed.
The license agreement that requires this is with the AACS Licensing Administrator LLC, which is a consortium of technology and content providers that includes companies like Microsoft, Intel, and Sony.

The "legal requirement" defense, while technically true, isn't very compelling when the license agreement you're legally beholden to is with a different arm of the same corporate interest, and one that you had a huge role in shaping in the first place.

Make no mistake, this is still companies screwing their best customers by choice. Their hands were not tied until they chose to tie them themselves.

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post #16 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 07:52 PM
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For anyone carping that "we had 5 years to get ready" PM me and I will send you my address so you can ship me a new 50" plasma to replace my 6 year old plasma, which still runs perfectly fine...

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post #17 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 11:12 PM
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The new PS3 is also lighter, weighting 2.6 Kg, (3.0 Kg for the previous model) and most importantly, it limits analog video outputs for Decrypted AACS Content to SD Interlace Modes only. (i.e., composite video, s-video, 480i component video).

If true, they're going above and beyond the AACS requirements which only downscale to quarter-HD.

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AACS-compliant players must follow guidelines pertaining to outputs over analog connections. This is set by a flag called the Image Constraint Token (ICT), which restricts the resolution for analog outputs to 960×540.

Funny how they're implementing this particular aspect of AACS, while there remains zero support for Managed Copy.

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post #18 of 48 Old 06-20-2011, 11:45 PM
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Funny how they're implementing this particular aspect of AACS, while there remains zero support for Managed Copy.

Managed Copy has the potential to be consumer friendly. Screw that!

Seriously, if Managed Copy ever comes out, it'll be in a completely unpractical form and undesireable.

The same people who bring you 5 forced previews per movie you just paid for aren't going to help you...
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post #19 of 48 Old 06-21-2011, 05:56 AM
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I can't believe they even took the LED lights out...talk about getting cheap.
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post #20 of 48 Old 06-21-2011, 12:45 PM
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Dont know why this is such a big deal... One would think having an older TV will at somepoint be outdated. Just like any other electronic.

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post #21 of 48 Old 06-21-2011, 02:42 PM
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So now they've activated the ICT across the board instead of a per disc basis. I figured it was coming eventually, sucks if you have older equipment though. I doubt this will apply to games but an official word would be nice. I bet this is an industry thing, so watch out for BD players and receivers with the same limits as new models release.
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post #22 of 48 Old 06-22-2011, 07:53 AM
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Managed copy is not coming, but Ultraviolet is. Wonder what movie will be first up for this.
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post #23 of 48 Old 06-22-2011, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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A new "feature" added to the new model is additional security on the Blu-ray drive hardware. It's not "Analog Sunset" requirement and it does nothing to stop the Blu-ray movies or games pirates but Sony does it anyway.

What Sony can do to prevent pirated movies and games on PS3 is disable the ability from playing movies and games directly from the hard drive or streamed over the network. Of course, that makes it very difficult to sell downloaded movies and games from PSN Store.
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post #24 of 48 Old 06-27-2011, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are photos of the new model dissected:
http://www.connectedconsoles.com/ps3...sumption/3799/

The Cell and RSX seem to remain the same fabrication but the fan is smaller. No LED activity indicator for WiFi. Even the heatsink design is more basic. A concern is increase in noise.

Seriously, if Sony keeps doing this to saving a few pennies in manufacturing, when will it start to effect the machine efficiency? I'm not saying below the quality but may not be as good as before. In manufacturing, as long the new standard still meets certain level of quality control, it's still consider good enough.

With the rumor of price drop, Sony has to ensure they can remove/simplify as many parts as possible. Since the power consumption is only reduced slightly, the older model could still be a better. (I have the 1st batch of "Jasper" X360 hardware revision which is the last revision before switched to the new slim model. Microsoft was still using the largest heatsink from the previous model on the 1st batch "Jasper" before they replaced it with a smaller heatsink on the later batches. An advantage is the largest heatsink is able to keep my X360 CPU/GPU much cooler. Ask PC builders. They often use oversized heatsink and fans to ensure the CPU/GPU always run cool and larger fans keep the machine more quiet.)
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post #25 of 48 Old 06-27-2011, 12:03 PM
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Sony wants to sell a $199 PS3 before the next gen, they cannot do that without price reduction. Weight is a very important factor, each PS3 is shipped from the far east.

Quote:
when will it start to effect the machine efficiency?
Well they do pay engineers to solve these problems. I think reliability and warranty cost are a pretty high priority, so don't just assume they are making it worse for a few pennies.

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post #26 of 48 Old 06-27-2011, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tgable View Post
Well they do pay engineers to solve these problems. I think reliability and warranty cost are a pretty high priority, so don't just assume they are making it worse for a few pennies.
Why not? Isn't that why all these evil corporations make something and slowly remove the most valuable features?

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post #27 of 48 Old 06-27-2011, 01:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post
Here are photos of the new model dissected:
http://www.connectedconsoles.com/ps3...sumption/3799/

The Cell and RSX seem to remain the same fabrication but the fan is smaller. No LED activity indicator for WiFi. Even the heatsink design is more basic. A concern is increase in noise.

Seriously, if Sony keeps doing this to saving a few pennies in manufacturing, when will it start to effect the machine efficiency? I'm not saying below the quality but may not be as good as before. In manufacturing, as long the new standard still meets certain level of quality control, it's still consider good enough.

With the rumor of price drop, Sony has to ensure they can remove/simplify as many parts as possible. Since the power consumption is only reduced slightly, the older model could still be a better. (I have the 1st batch of "Jasper" X360 hardware revision which is the last revision before switched to the new slim model. Microsoft was still using the largest heatsink from the previous model on the 1st batch "Jasper" before they replaced it with a smaller heatsink on the later batches. An advantage is the largest heatsink is able to keep my X360 CPU/GPU much cooler. Ask PC builders. They often use oversized heatsink and fans to ensure the CPU/GPU always run cool and larger fans keep the machine more quiet.)
I'd be worried about overheating issues. Slims seem to have gotten them under control, but smaller fans and redesigned heat sinks with less material make me wonder.
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post #28 of 48 Old 06-27-2011, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tgable View Post
Well they do pay engineers to solve these problems. I think reliability and warranty cost are a pretty high priority, so don't just assume they are making it worse for a few pennies.
As an engineer that gets paid (in a completely different field than consumer electronics) I can say without a doubt that a *large* amount of our time goes into this exactly.

Ask the bean counters and to a man they all insist that what they are asking for is strictly cost reductions but call a spade a spade - Cheapening products is always part of the equation. The better engineers are the ones that can cheapen a product in areas that the customer won't notice or mind too much.

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post #29 of 48 Old 06-27-2011, 01:40 PM
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Well we do out share of cost reduction on our products here and there are strict requirements. Namely, the product cannot operate differently, ie. worse. If a piece was over engineered and the original specs were ridiculously tight, relaxing them could save money and the difference would not be measurable, namely the original accuracy or specs were never used, it was just added cost. I assume Sony is operating with similar specs. They can change the cooling, but they still have the same temp thresholds. whether noise is controlled in the same manner is a good question, they probably have an upper spec.

Sony also does hardware very well.

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post #30 of 48 Old 06-27-2011, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

Well we do out share of cost reduction on our products here and there are strict requirements. Namely, the product cannot operate differently, ie. worse. If a piece was over engineered and the original specs were ridiculously tight, relaxing them could save money and the difference would not be measurable, namely the original accuracy or specs were never used, it was just added cost. I assume Sony is operating with similar specs. They can change the cooling, but they still have the same temp thresholds. whether noise is controlled in the same manner is a good question, they probably have an upper spec.

Sony also does hardware very well.

That's the thing, to Sony the device may have been "over designed" originally, but that overkill is what allowed it to survive all trapped up in your entertainment center while the newer "optimized" and "cost reduced" version may still meet Sony's requirements, even as it no longer survives in your cabinet.

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