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post #61 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 10:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

PS4 4K Video support but not games

There you go for those who asked. So there will be no 4k gaming on the PS4.

Good. One less buzzword for suits to chase that would only hurt actual games and gameplay.
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post #62 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Developers seem to love the PS4's tech abilities.

Johan Anderson, an EA's DICE developer of the Frostbite 2 engine:
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These are my personal views.

we really do like the PS4! that is all I can say smile.gif

lots of memory is essential for both the CPU & GPU to create large & alive game worlds

Tiago Sousa, Crytek developer:
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8 GB unified mem as baseline for next tech iterations makes me very, very happy. Fun times coming.

Randy Pitchford, Gearbox developer:
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Thanks for the great event in NY @playstation - Very pleased with the commitment to 8gb of GDDR5 memory. Other specs are beautiful too!

John Carmack, iD and FPS genre guru:
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I can’t speak freely about PS4, but now that some specs have been made public, I can say that Sony made wise engineering choices.

Mark Rein, Epic Games and Unreal Engine 4 developer:
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I really am excited, 8GB of super-fast RAM - holy cow!

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post #63 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 11:46 AM
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x86 means they can port windows things easier.

Get ready for a Java based Words-with-Friends that needs 10 gigs of memory (after 3 games).
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post #64 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 01:21 PM
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Hopefully a high quality version of the confrence is up for download on the PSN soon, or at least 1080p trailers of every game shown so we can see what they look like with a decent quality source.
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post #65 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 01:26 PM
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How exactly does Gaikai work? I mean all I have is DSL internet where I live. Do we need super fast internet for this to work?
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post #66 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Hopefully a high quality version of the confrence is up for download on the PSN soon, or at least 1080p trailers of every game shown so we can see what they look like with a decent quality source.
Yeah, the live stream that I saw was terrible! First I tried the Playstation 3. It started out ok but turned into a living buffering Picasso painting realy fast. So then I went to my computer and the quality was a million times better. Except, it started to stutter and buffer and just plain close. What I saw of it was cool. I liked the Killzone gameplay. I thought Killzone 3 was a lot of fun. Any Uncharted rumors out there?

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post #67 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

How exactly does Gaikai work? I mean all I have is DSL internet where I live. Do we need super fast internet for this to work?

From everything I can read about it, it's basically a server that will run the software (game) using its own hardware and will stream the output (the images and sound) to your PS4 while taking the input (controller signals) from your PS4. When they (the Gaikai folks) were talking about the service for streaming high end PC games, they said the reccomended speed was a constant 5 Mbit/s or faster, with the bare minimum speed being 3 Mbit/s. Any slower and it would not work.

So yeah, it does sound like you'll need a pretty damned fast connection in order to reliably use it.
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post #68 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 02:21 PM
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So yeah, it does sound like you'll need a pretty damned fast connection in order to reliably use it.

Feckin great....
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post #69 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 02:33 PM
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I know this sounds petty and a backseat issue, as well as knowing this will likely never happen due to big bad piracy voodoo issues, but...

The only way that I will sink money into a next generation system is if it bitstreams HD audio from MKVs over DLNA.

Give me that, and I'll buy your system.

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post #70 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Independent developers are welcome to make games and price them on the PS4, and current Move controllers work with the new PSEye in this interview:


Quote:
Immediately after the PlayStation 4 press conference, we sat down with the Sony president of worldwide studios Shuhei Yotshida to discuss the new controller, the ambitious self publishing service for developers, and the expansion of cross-play functionality.

With Jonathan Blow being here, you kind of addressed how you are going to look at an indie market. Can you tell us a little bit more about that plan?

Yeah. Last year, the game awards were swept by games like Journey or The Walking Dead. More people and media are excited about small games. This trend is going to continue. Console games on the big stage are just going to keep getting bigger and bigger, but it has been brutal for the mid-range titles. It’s all about $60 million or $100 million budget games. If we just continue doing it as an industry, you won’t see lots of new and exciting stuff that much, especially for those young people wanting to come into the industry. They need to learn by being able to make games of their own, and have creative control. The same goes for the consumer. We work with people like Jenova Chen. They are so creative and think outside of the box. We learned, and our producers learned from them how they approach games.

Is Sony going to give these teams and people a new pricing structure? The biggest fear that indie people have had is the barrier for them getting into game development.

For the people that self-publish, it’s their product. They are the publisher. They are free to set the price from free to, you know, $30. It’s their fee. For independent publishers we work with, we are the publisher, so we make the final decision, but for our store, it’s very easy to set the price for each product, and it’s easy to make promotions or bundles. It’s very easy to do.

You showed us how you could use the Vita as a second screen in your living room. Is that local only, or is there any ambition with Gaikai to use that as a server and get further away in the living room?

Technically speaking, it works from anywhere, as far as you have a wi-fi connection from your Vita to the PlayStation 4. It needs to be wi-fi. However, for some games, when you play or connect from far away, it accumulates latency. Some games may not be playable, like fighting games or shooting games. But some other slower paced games will be playable. As long as you have home routers anywhere in your home, you can play every PlayStation 4 game. We ask developers when they finish the PlayStation 4 product and submit a master to make sure that they have the appropriate controller mapping to work on PS Vita. All games will work – unless it is a dance game [laughs].

You talked about the new streaming technologies and being able to start playing downloads and demos immediately. There was no mention of physical media. Is that still planned for PlayStation 4?

Oh yeah. It’s going to be Blu-ray based. The same as PlayStation 3.

As far as the games you are working on, we didn’t get a Gran Turismo, which is kind of a classic reveal for Sony. Is that still as series you are looking forward to releasing?

Working toward this event has been so much fun. I’ve never had this amount of speculation. Everyone has a list of 20 things they want to see at this event. This is just day one. We have more days ahead.

You showed the camera and how it works with the controller. Are you packing in the camera with every PlayStation 4?

We are not talking about the final compilation or pricing or the release date right as of yet.

You announced a new Killzone game. Is the development team bigger or is the same size as the Killzone teams for PlayStation 3?

We’ve been supporting some of the studios to grow. Many of you already know that studios like Naughty Dog moved from one team in a studio to a multi-team studio. Our studios are growing. As far as individual titles are concerned, because of the production values you can put into PlayStation 4, games can be larger. Comparing Killzone: Shadow Fall to Killzone 3, I think the number of people working on it is slightly larger, but it depends on the title.

Is your plan that the Vita is kind of a PlayStation 4, where it supports similar titles much like Sound Shapes? Cross-play has worked well. Can you push it further using streaming?

What we’ve been doing on PlayStation 3 has been experimentation. We like the idea of cross-platform play and the ability to continue from Vita to your home and play against each other. We will continue that. It was difficult to get PlayStation 3 to do more things because the system was made eight years ago. We’ve been working closely with the PlayStation 4 system software and hardware games to make it easy for developers to do this.

Media Molecule’s demo was amazing. Can you tell us a little about that game?

They totally approached what PS Move does. It is a robust 3D input system. We’re not talking about motion gaming at all. They used the Move’s 3D input capability with their new, groundbreaking way to render images. You can just go in and create like you are playing with Play-Doh. So when they are talking about sculpting, they are not talking about professional 3D graphics, they are talking about artists molding or children playing.

Is that the same Move controller you can buy now?

Yes. That works with the new camera. It’s going to be better because the new camera has higher resolution and has two fields. The two cameras are good for augmented reality games. On PS3, the vision was a bit blurry, right? Now, it’s in HD. One camera is dedicated to getting the best picture of you on the screen, and the other camera can work with PS Move. That’s how we use different cameras. More to come.

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post #71 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Sony comments on the PS4 price:

Quote:
When asked if the company was prepared to compete with other consoles and hit a more favorable price, Yoshida said that Sony's decisions to use custom AMD hardware instead of its own proprietary Cell architecture has allowed it to save on R&D and production costs.

"The architecture choice we have made this time around has allowed us not to invest to create dedicated factories and conducting factories and things like that — so that helps in order for us to provide an affordable price to consumers."

....and
Quote:
Will the new console cost $599 to start?

"I certainly hope not. I think we’re very proud of what we delivered with the PlayStation 3 in terms of technology, and that we were able to enhance the features while still reducing the price to $249. But I think our goal with this is to debut at a more consumer-friendly price. But we haven’t made any final decisions about what the price will be at launch."

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post #72 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 04:39 PM
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I redid my price estimates based on the spec list, $399 at a loss isn't impossible, but it is unlikely. $499 is still the most likely price at the rough break even point of $475. (depending on HDD size and GDDR5 Wholesale pricing) Retail markup is also a major factor.

It all depends on if Sony wants to make a profit in their first year, or take a sizable loss for their first year. They could also split the difference and launch at $450 with retail wholesale of $425.

I doubt we will see two bundles on day one. I just don't see a need for one unless they want to include a bunch of digital stuff out of the box. (which costs them nothing to include, but justifies a higher price tag.)
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post #73 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a good interview with a top Sony exec about the PS4:
Quote:
On possibility of PS4 blocking used games

When you purchase the disc-based games on PS4, it should work on any hardware. So that's what I'm saying.

On whether or not the PS Vita price cut in Japan will become effective worldwide

No, it's not. It's a region-by-region-based decision. Always.

On activation codes for secondhand PS4 titles

It's a publisher decision. We are not talking about it. Sorry.

On Sony's decision not to show PS4 hardware during the announcement

I'm sorry we did not show the hardware. But we have plans from now--in February--through the year for the launch. We like to disclose things based on what we think we really want to communicate first. And next time we will talk about these things.

On 3D support for PS4

No, it's not a focus, but it does [support 3D]. More games will run at 1080p and 60 frames per second, so it's an easier and better experience when you watch on 3D TV. We like what we can do on PS3 using 3D, but now the consumer electronics side [of Sony Corp.] has shifted focus from 3D TV to something else, so if they are not talking about it, why are we?

On 4K support for PS4

The official answer is the PS4 supports 4K output, but does for personal content like photos and videos, not games. PS4 games do not work on 4K.

On support for legacy platforms now that the PS4 has been announced

So we have Last of Us and Beyond: Two Souls coming out this year; these are pretty big titles. And after that we haven't announced any new software for PS3.

On the possibility of bringing PS3 titles to PS4

It's an interesting concept. We've been upgrading PS2 games to PS3 with better resolution and better frame rate. And people love it. So I think at some point it makes sense and it's great for developers to be able to develop some things that they missed or couldn't get working properly on the older hardware because of the performance to be able to make it better for newer hardware. So we are open to look at that.

On Gaikai integration for PS4 launch titles

So we are saying virtually every PS4 game will be playable on PS Vita via Remote Play. I would be heartbroken if it doesn't day one. On day one, my expectation is that we have to have all games work on PS Vita.

On whether or not Sony would acquire Quantic Dream

We don't look at developers in the world who are making great games for some other publisher and say, 'We have to acquire them." We never do that. The way we acquire developers, when we do, is the natural evolution of the relationship that develops. When it makes sense, we sign a deal. In terms of Quantic, we worked with them on Heavy Rain, and we are working with them on Beyond: Two Souls, and they are showing something very interesting on PS4. So we are definitely developing that stronger relations and we love them as well.

On possibility of PlayStation App store

Personally, I would like to see that. Our PlayStation Mobile is really targeting to do that so smaller developers can really publish from the countries we support. But on the console side, for the PS3 and PS Vita, we still treat publishing like our disc-based model in terms of certification, approval, quality assurance. So we are discussing internally how we can make it a bit more open or a bit easier especially for smaller developers to publish. Because we totally believe in the importance of supporting these smaller developers because they provide really unique and interesting ideas to the platforms.

On what the PlayStation 4 Eye Camera is capable of

The PS4 Eye has two HD cameras, and these two cameras can be used in several different ways. One way is to use it for triangulation, so that space in front of the camera can be measured so that when you do this [motions with his hands] the game knows you are doing this. The other way is to make the augmented reality games like Wonderbook, using one camera for the video streaming, the other camera to…optimize for that task.

""We totally believe in the importance of supporting these smaller developers because they provide really unique and interesting ideas to the platforms.""

On whether or not the PS4 will be region-locked

I know the answer, but I don't want to be quoted and get a call from my PR guy saying, 'What did you say?'

On whether or not PSN will remain free for PS4

We totally believe that we want to provide more functionality and more services and more content on the network. And so we are looking at how we are going to structure that. And we are not ready to talk about that.

On possibility of backward compatibility for PS3 discs

No. You can quote me on that.

On whether or not the PS4 will make another appearance before E3

[Looks at PR rep] I hope not (laughs).

On whether or not The Last Guardian is still a PS3 game

I’m not ready to talk about it. Sorry. Because we've broken promises [before], we are waiting for the right time to reintroduce The Last Guardian.

On status of Rockstar's Agent and Square Enix's Final Fantasy Versus

You are asking the wrong person. I have some knowledge, but I'm not in a position to talk about it.

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post #74 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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PS4 game prices revealed:
Quote:
On pricing, Tretton said that the PS4 is "designed with the game developer in mind and the consumer in mind," and will offer games with prices ranging from $0.99 to the more traditional $60 range with the ability for players to sample games before they buy.

"I think people are willing to pay if they see the value there," he said. "The heat for the true gamer is on the console."

He said that games on mobile devices are "additive experiences" and that gamers won't "migrate down the food chain" for their primary gaming experience.

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post #75 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 10:37 PM
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That was pretty vague about used games. The disks work, but that really isn't saying anything. Do they require a code to activate them? Are they limited to a demo mode if not verified by the console?

Why can't Sony simply say how the system will handle used games instead of dancing around the issue using very carefully chosen words?

Nintendo flat out said that used games would not be blocked when asked... How did Nintendo suddenly become the most forward thinking company when it came to the digital era? Full BC for all content, including digital games on all their platforms, no used lockout. They did almost everything right and have a roadmap in place for the few issues remaining.

If there is any kind of verification needed for PS4 games, then the PS4 will be useless in 15-20 years when the network is gone and used games have no way to work properly with your console.
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post #76 of 21096 Old 02-21-2013, 11:29 PM
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It's a publisher decision. We are not talking about it. Sorry.

Well there it is. Some system will be in place to block it. I never buy used, so I don't really care. If I've waited that long to play a game, I just grab it off Amazon for 20 or 30 bucks.

500 gigs FTL.
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post #77 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 12:05 AM
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I think if Sony or the publishers would simply charge a $10 fee, for a one time transfer of ownership, I think that would be perfectly fair. Gamers will still be able to sell their games, and you'd still be able to buy used games if you can find an original owner. The $10 fee would be a factor, but hopefully that $10 fee would encourage people to take GameStop out of the equation, and instead, it will be gamers just selling to other gamers, and leaving gamestop out of the picture.
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post #78 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 12:34 AM
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lets count how many features that sony promised us now. and how many of them will actually made it into the console when it launches smile.gif remember the double hdmi output? half of the ram will propably be gone by november tongue.gif cant wait. and why for the love of god didnt sony care about the digital purchases? i hate having multiple systems sitting on my entertainment center.
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post #79 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

I think if Sony or the publishers would simply charge a $10 fee, for a one time transfer of ownership, I think that would be perfectly fair. Gamers will still be able to sell their games, and you'd still be able to buy used games if you can find an original owner. The $10 fee would be a factor, but hopefully that $10 fee would encourage people to take GameStop out of the equation, and instead, it will be gamers just selling to other gamers, and leaving gamestop out of the picture.

gamestop is thinking about sending an assassin to take you out right now biggrin.gif
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post #80 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

That was pretty vague about used games. The disks work, but that really isn't saying anything. Do they require a code to activate them? Are they limited to a demo mode if not verified by the console?

Why can't Sony simply say how the system will handle used games instead of dancing around the issue using very carefully chosen words?

Nintendo flat out said that used games would not be blocked when asked... How did Nintendo suddenly become the most forward thinking company when it came to the digital era? Full BC for all content, including digital games on all their platforms, no used lockout. They did almost everything right and have a roadmap in place for the few issues remaining.

If there is any kind of verification needed for PS4 games, then the PS4 will be useless in 15-20 years when the network is gone and used games have no way to work properly with your console.

If they won't flat it say it, its because there's more to the story. Either they're still in some sort of negotiations, maybe they're testing the waters. Maybe they're seeing if MS will do it. We're not getting the answer because the answer doesn't exist yet, and the decision doesn't need to be made yet.

Used games will be playable in some fashion....that's all we're getting right now.

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post #81 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Why can't Sony simply say how the system will handle used games instead of dancing around the issue using very carefully chosen words?

Sony is probably seriously weighing their options on used games considering the amount of heat MS has taken on this issue. Obviously the publishers are pushing to get some revenue from used games so 'something' is afoot, we just don't know exactly what yet and I'm figuring Sony doesn't want the negative publicity at this stage.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #82 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think it is complicated. Sony has said that there is not a universal system in place to force all used games off the PS4. That appears to mean that things will continue like they are for the PS3 where codes are used if publishers want to wall off stuff.

Remember, publishers have the ability to lock out gamers from the entire content of their PS3 retail games right now. They already do so for the multi-player portion in plenty of titles, so nothing is stopping them from forcing us to enter a code for the entire disc. Will some publishers do so next gen? We don't know, but if so I doubt it will be widespread.

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post #83 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post


Remember, publishers have the ability to lock out gamers from the entire content of their PS3 retail games right now. They already do so for the multi-player portion in plenty of titles, so nothing is stopping them from forcing us to enter a code for the entire disc. Will some publishers do so next gen? We don't know, but if so I doubt it will be widespread.

If I had to place bets on which companies employ this practice next gen, the first names to come to mind would be EA, perhaps Capcom( I don't think predicting the former is going too far out on a limb). I think Sony is taking the right approach leaving it to the publishers to decide how they want to handle their content.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #84 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep yep. However, I do have unaswered questions that aren't so easy to assume will end well:


- The hard drive has been officially listed as being "built in"; was that worded poorly? I sincerely hope we have the same modular, off-the-shelf HDD setup as the PS3. I do not want either a permanent drive literally locked in to the PS4 (doubtful) or proprietary storage that is more expensive than what's available (like the Vita did for security reasons).

- Online play: will it still be free? The Share stuff advertised at the conference seems pretty cool, as does the Gaikai streaming. If they put all of that behind a pay wall then it is what it is. However, basic peer-to-peer online play should remain free.

If those two questions are resolved positively, I can't think of any major hang ups I'd have for the PS4. Sure, I'd like full BC like anyone else, but that's more of a convenience thing since I'm keeping my little PS3 super slim like I have for countless consoles over the years. No big whoop.

Sony's goal of allowing almost every PS4 game to work on the Vita is laudable. The price looks to be affordable and they didn't gimp out on the PS4's tech abilities. An "always-online" console won't be forced on us. The 1st round of games coming out are highly impressive. Their prices max out at $60 once again. So far, so good.

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post #85 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 08:58 AM
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It's a real bummer to hear what Sony's actual stance is toward indie developers. Too bad. Basically they're doing almost exactly what they did this generation. In fact, based on Yoshida's comments, it looks pretty much identical. The only difference is that they have a more developer-friendly hardware architecture. But in terms of publishing and pricing, everything looks the same to me: Sony acts as publisher for indies and controls the pricing. That's the same way they currently do things.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

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post #86 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Yep yep. However, I do have unaswered questions that aren't so easy to assume will end well:


- Online play: will it still be free? The Share stuff advertised at the conference seems pretty cool, as does the Gaikai streaming. If they put all of that behind a pay wall then it is what it is. However, basic peer-to-peer online play should remain free.

I suspect it will be, but with PS+ there's plenty of incentive via 'free' games, discounts, betas to warrant spending $50. I do prefer Live's marketplace infrastructure, but Ps+ easily offers the better value for $50 considering basic online play is free. I'm seriously thinking about making this year my last as a Live Gold member( 10 years) and going exclusively with PS+, especially since I'm planning on a gaming rig later on this year

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #87 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

It's a real bummer to hear what Sony's actual stance is toward indie developers. Too bad. Basically they're doing almost exactly what they did this generation. In fact, based on Yoshida's comments, it looks pretty much identical. The only difference is that they have a more developer-friendly hardware architecture. But in terms of publishing and pricing, everything looks the same to me: Sony acts as publisher for indies and controls the pricing. That's the same way they currently do things.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I could swear a I read an interview where they said the developer/publisher could directly control the price. I don't expect nor want a free for all like the App Store, but it sounds steam-esque.

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post #88 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 09:10 AM
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Here we go:
Quote:
Is Sony going to give these teams and people a new pricing structure? The biggest fear that indie people have had is the barrier for them getting into game development.

For the people that self-publish, it’s their product. They are the publisher. They are free to set the price from free to, you know, $30. It’s their fee. For independent publishers we work with, we are the publisher, so we make the final decision, but for our store, it’s very easy to set the price for each product, and it’s easy to make promotions or bundles. It’s very easy to do.

It sounds like there might be an indie section like XBLIG.

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post #89 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, it was just another random attempt at spreading misery. He confused the part about indie developers who choose to be published by Sony with all indie developers who are on the PS4. Pay it no mind.

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post #90 of 21096 Old 02-22-2013, 12:21 PM
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With the vagueness on the used game capabilities, another thing we have to keep in mind is that there may be some technology that would be used for the transfer of ownership of digitally purchased games which they are unable to discuss at this time. Therefore, they can't really come out and say straight out what the plans are without leaking other secrets they want to keep at the moment.

For example, right now there is a mixture of download only games and disc-based games in the marketplace. If they flat out said "used games can be used on the PS4", does that mean all used games, or only disc-based, or digital games? With the presentation focusing heavily on "instantaneous boot-up", perhaps disc based games will be installed onto the HDD in a manner that also includes a digital download of the game for quick access. Therefore, they may not know how that would be implemented yet.

They could also be working on a system allowing you to sell your digitally downloaded game, which would then inactivate it for you on your system once it is sold. There are a bunch of things that might not be set in stone yet, so Sony can't just come out and discuss it at this point in time. Therefore, their wording has been intentionally vague so as not to leak anything too soon.
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