PS4K will also sport a 4K Blu-ray player - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 181 Old 09-07-2016, 02:06 PM
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Nailed it.
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post #122 of 181 Old 09-07-2016, 02:41 PM
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So who is going to change the title of this thread to read PS4 Neo (Pro) will NOT support a UHD drive?
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post #123 of 181 Old 09-07-2016, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by HarpuaFSB View Post
Confirmed no UHD BR drive in the PS4 Pro

Lame.
Wow, that's pretty amazing that the $299 version of the Xbox One S has a UHD Blu-Ray drive and this so called PS4 Pro doesn't. What the F Sony ?


(honestly I don't care that much about UHD Blu Ray, but still...)
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post #124 of 181 Old 09-07-2016, 06:06 PM
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Sony loss this round of the console war by not offering a UHD player IMO. Unless you want VR, there's little reason to get a PS4 Pro instead of an XB1S.

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post #125 of 181 Old 09-07-2016, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Soycrema View Post
So who is going to change the title of this thread to read PS4 Neo (Pro) will NOT support a UHD drive?
I was just going to say is there any point in this particular thread now lol. Also the rumors were true it is only a 4.2TF and already you got people misquoting and believing the Pro will do native [email protected]/HDR. Same people that were downplaying the Scorpio that is expected to be 6TF

The 5.0 is here
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post #126 of 181 Old 09-07-2016, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Soycrema View Post
So who is going to change the title of this thread to read PS4 Neo (Pro) will NOT support a UHD drive?
Most of us were awaiting another decent 4k BD option in the PS4k / PS4 NEO / now PS4 PRO. What a bummer they will not have that 4k BD drive.

That leaves the Xbox One S or Phillips BDP7501 , Sammy UBD-K8500 or Panny UB900 or some new flim flammy player as of yet unknown. For me knowing what I would like to now unknow regarding the PS4 PRO no 4K BD support so... appears the UB900 may win my coins. But even it has no 10 bit 444 support AFAIK.

Does anyone know if the UB700 will come to our USA shores and if so what would we be giving up vs the UB900? I know the analog 7.1 audio outs are not in the 700 but I would not use them anyway. Then minus the THX and a little bit less powerful chroma processor AFAIK.

There appears to be an issue with the Phillips & Panny not able to display 10 bit 444 option as most 2016 & prior sets are 10 bit panels. Running their 12 bit 444 option creates banding I have read in many threads, unless your TV's electronics are 12 bit capable?

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post #127 of 181 Old 09-07-2016, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post
What a bummer they will not have that 4k BD drive.
Agreed, I had hoped for a UHD blu-ray player to be included with Neo and give parity to XBone One S, but Sony is definitely dragging its feet for UHD player support. Last week we learned it will release a standalone player, but there's not even a model # yet. I believe they are playing a conservative game and also hope to upsell Ultra streaming service.

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There appears to be an issue with the Phillips & Panny not able to display 10 bit 444 option as most 2016 & prior sets are 10 bit panels. Running their 12 bit 444 option creates banding I have read in many threads, unless your TV's electronics are 12 bit capable?
Nobody has a 12-bit panel today. Some people have success disabling HDMI deep color to eliminate banding; it depends on the display.
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post #128 of 181 Old 09-08-2016, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post
Nailed it.

I was the opposite. I was super wrong. Guess Sony is not banking on the success of the PS4 pushing UHD BD and are just going for a gaming centered market. They know where their strengths are.


Its a smart move bringing it out at $399.
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post #129 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 06:17 AM
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$399 or $414 with a UHD BD player? I don't really see much of a difference.
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post #130 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
$399 or $414 with a UHD BD player? I don't really see much of a difference.
I don't really believe those BOM estimations, the information they go off of is questionable. For all we know Sony has some huge order of non-UHD parts that's way cheaper than their estimates, and can leverage quantity and commonality of assembly and processing since it is the same part in the Slim. So they'd probably need to have it in the Slim as well to leverage economy of scale. BOM estimates should only ever be used as a very rough scale estimate, rather than making very specific judgements like this. Too much of the information that would go into a reliable estimate is simply proprietary and unavailable.

As much as the video enthusiast market wants UHD, Sony has been very clear that they are better off focusing on gaming enthusiasts, and that streaming is sufficient for the gaming but non-video enthusiast market. Which is probably correct.

Also, nobody is going to sell a console for $414. It'd be $449 at a minimum.
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post #131 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
I don't really believe those BOM estimations, the information they go off of is questionable. For all we know Sony has some huge order of non-UHD parts that's way cheaper than their estimates, and can leverage quantity and commonality of assembly and processing since it is the same part in the Slim. So they'd probably need to have it in the Slim as well to leverage economy of scale. BOM estimates should only ever be used as a very rough scale estimate, rather than making very specific judgements like this. Too much of the information that would go into a reliable estimate is simply proprietary and unavailable.

As much as the video enthusiast market wants UHD, Sony has been very clear that they are better off focusing on gaming enthusiasts, and that streaming is sufficient for the gaming but non-video enthusiast market. Which is probably correct.

Also, nobody is going to sell a console for $414. It'd be $449 at a minimum.
Sales make no sense any way with $399.99 or $449.99. Although for some reason they have been doing that forever. But unless you have a room temp IQ, whether $399 or $400/$449 or $450, it should make no difference. The worst offender of this is gas stations. It's always been so stupid.

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post #132 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 09:49 AM
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I was just going to say is there any point in this particular thread now lol. Also the rumors were true it is only a 4.2TF and already you got people misquoting and believing the Pro will do native [email protected]/HDR. Same people that were downplaying the Scorpio that is expected to be 6TF
I think comparing it to Xbox Vaporware to be needless and pointless really.

A 6TF machine that comes out when? Price how much? The scorpio doesn't exist in this same sense. Compared to the ScubasteveUG console, a 14TF machine, both the Pro and Scorpio are severely under-powered. Doesn't matter that the ScubasteveUG console doesn't have a release date and costs $2000.

A 6TF machine will struggle to do the games of tomorrow at 4k/30fps. A GTX1070 (6.5TF) is barely able to do last years games at 4k/30 reliably.
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post #133 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
$399 or $414 with a UHD BD player? I don't really see much of a difference.


Even if it went up to $449, I would guess the majority reaction to the reveal would have been substantially different (for the better).
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post #134 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by scubasteve2365 View Post
A 6TF machine will struggle to do the games of tomorrow at 4k/30fps. A GTX1070 (6.5TF) is barely able to do last years games at 4k/30 reliably.


I agree with this and struggle to see how the Scorpio will do 4k/30fps also.
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post #135 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 10:10 AM
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the new Samsung 4K player is $300+




But you can get an Xbox one S for about the same.


So wouldn't it be smarter just to get the X box?


I already have PS4 and don't particularly care for any of the xbox games. But I guess I wouldn't mind playing Tomb Raider.


But just in general, why in the world wouldn't one just get X box one S instead of 'just' a 4K player for same price?
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post #136 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 10:17 AM
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Sony shows off prototype UHD Blu-ray player at IFA...
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1472815223

Sony is expecting you to buy both the PS4K and their upcoming UHD Blu Ray player.

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post #137 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:02 AM
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But just in general, why in the world wouldn't one just get X box one S instead of 'just' a 4K player for same price?
Because Xbox doesn't support bitstreaming and never has.
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post #138 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:09 AM
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Sony loss this round of the console war by not offering a UHD player IMO. Unless you want VR, there's little reason to get a PS4 Pro instead of an XB1S.

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People are missing the point for PS4 Pro. Xbox One S does not do 4K native graphic for games it doesn't even compared to PS4 Pro which does support 4K gaming.
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post #139 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:30 AM
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Because Xbox doesn't support bitstreaming and never has.

So the Xbox One S will play 4K UHD discs - but it will not pass the likes of Dolby TrueHD, Atmos, etc. to the AVR?
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post #140 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:34 AM
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Released a gaming console these days without 4K Blu-ray Support is unacceptable especially when your number one competitor already has one on the market and being competitive with your competitor is what drives technolgy.
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post #141 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:43 AM
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So the Xbox One S will play 4K UHD discs - but it will not pass the likes of Dolby TrueHD, Atmos, etc. to the AVR?
It also does not have dual HDMI ports for older receivers like mine that don't support HDMI 2.1a (for HDR)

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post #142 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
So the Xbox One S will play 4K UHD discs - but it will not pass the likes of Dolby TrueHD, Atmos, etc. to the AVR?
It does support bitstream but it's limited to DD 5.1 It does not support advance audio codec for now. If you play anything in Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD MA, it will be played in PCM 5.1/7.1

Last edited by Symtex; 09-09-2016 at 11:49 AM.
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post #143 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:46 AM
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So the Xbox One S will play 4K UHD discs - but it will not pass the likes of Dolby TrueHD, Atmos, etc. to the AVR?
It never has. Which is only an issue with object oriented audio like Atmos/DTS:X.

For Dolby True HD/DTS-Hd MA it is decoded to PCM. Which is what any receiver is going to do anyway.

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post #144 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:50 AM
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It does support bitstream but it's limited to DD 5.1 It does not support advance audio codec for now. If you play anything in Dolby TrueHD and DTS:X, it will be played in PCM 5.1/7.1
It's not true bitstreaming though. The XBOne decodes ALL audio first, whether legacy DD/DTS or an advanced audio codec like DD+, Dolby TRue HD, or DTS-HD MA. It decodes everything first, mixes in it's own sounds, and then outputs at up to 7.1 PCM. Or encodes the PCM audio to legacy DD/DTS at up to 5.1

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post #145 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:51 AM
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It's not true bitstreaming though. The XBOne decodes ALL audio first, whether legacy DD/DTS or an advanced audio codec like DD+, Dolby TRue HD, or DTS-HD MA. It decodes everything first, mixes in it's own sounds, and then outputs at up to 7.1 PCM. Or encodes the PCM audio to legacy DD/DTS at up to 5.1
It's not as bad as people make it seems. For 99% of the users, this is a non-issue. I prefer a dedicated UHD player (Samsung) to get the maximum audio experience since I got a Dolby Atmos setup
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post #146 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:55 AM
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It's not as bad as people make it seems. For 99% of the users, this is a non-issue. I prefer a dedicated UHD player (Samsung) to get the maximum audio experience since I got a Dolby Atmos setup
I'm not saying it's bad. It works very well. It's really only an issue if you need Atmos or DTS:X. Otherwise the 7.1 PCM audio will sound the same as the bitstreamed audio to you receiver. Well at least 99% of the time anyway.My main setup(1080P) uses 7.1 PCM audio from the XBox or PS4. Even with the re-encoding it sounds perfectly fine. This is what I've been doing with my PS4 and XBOne S in my UHD TV setup. HAving them send 5.1 DTS and using the ARC to get that audio to my speaker bar.

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post #147 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 11:59 AM
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I'm not saying it's bad. It works very well. It's really only an issue if you need Atmos or DTS:X. Otherwise the 7.1 PCM audio will sound the same as the bitstreamed audio to you receiver. Well at least 99% of the time anyway.My main setup(1080P) uses 7.1 PCM audio from the XBox or PS4. Even with the re-encoding it sounds perfectly fine. This is what I've been doing with my PS4 and XBOne S in my UHD TV setup. HAving them send 5.1 DTS and using the ARC to get that audio to my speaker bar.
Microsoft does listen to the feedback. I think they will patch it full bitstream support and all will be forgotten. In the meantime, The Xbox One S is still the cheapest entry into the 4K blu-ray. It will drive adoption of 4K TV. Sony made a mistake.
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post #148 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Witchboard View Post
Because Xbox doesn't support bitstreaming and never has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipse01 View Post
It also does not have dual HDMI ports for older receivers like mine that don't support HDMI 2.1a (for HDR)

I had the same issue sort of. My TV is 2.2 or whatever. But my Denon AVR was NOT.


I simply bought one of these. This is dirt cheap. And it converts the 2.2 to 1.4 or whatever HDMI. Win.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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post #149 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I had the same issue sort of. My TV is 2.2 or whatever. But my Denon AVR was NOT.


I simply bought one of these. This is dirt cheap. And it converts the 2.2 to 1.4 or whatever HDMI. Win.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
did not know these even existed.. cool!

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post #150 of 181 Old 09-09-2016, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by scubasteve2365 View Post
I think comparing it to Xbox Vaporware to be needless and pointless really.

A 6TF machine that comes out when? Price how much? The scorpio doesn't exist in this same sense. Compared to the ScubasteveUG console, a 14TF machine, both the Pro and Scorpio are severely under-powered. Doesn't matter that the ScubasteveUG console doesn't have a release date and costs $2000.

A 6TF machine will struggle to do the games of tomorrow at 4k/30fps. A GTX1070 (6.5TF) is barely able to do last years games at 4k/30 reliably.

Not to mention 4k/60, which is what gamers actually want. and in order to do that, you need a Titan which boasts 11 teraflops and costs around $1200 just for the graphics card.

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