PS5 Specs confirmed By Sony & AMD! Wow it's a beast! - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 73 Old 03-21-2020, 01:31 PM
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PS5's SSD speed will be amazing for first-party devs, but third-party devs won't change how they design games if it won't work with Xbox SX's SSD.

I'm not a fan of the variable frequency for the CPU and GPU, which will give Xbox a ~2-3TF advantage. Could be noticeable with resolutions and/or framerates. I'm still buying both.
Did they cover the rumor of backwards compatibility to the older systems? That'd be the main draw for me vs going pc personally

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post #62 of 73 Old 03-21-2020, 02:33 PM
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PS5's SSD speed will be amazing for first-party devs, but third-party devs won't change how they design games if it won't work with Xbox SX's SSD.

I'm not a fan of the variable frequency for the CPU and GPU, which will give Xbox a ~2-3TF advantage. Could be noticeable with resolutions and/or framerates. I'm still buying both.
Did they cover the rumor of backwards compatibility to the older systems? That'd be the main draw for me vs going pc personally

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Both Sony and Microsoft are working on majority, if not all, games from this gen working on PS5 and Series X. With improved performance and resolutions on some of them. And Xbox Series X has very impressive auto HDR for games that were only in SDR by using a machine learning algorithm using Gears 5's HDR.
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post #63 of 73 Old 03-26-2020, 02:07 PM
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Isn't anyone bothered by the ambiguous mention of whether or not their proprietary 3D audio will work on a full multi channel Dolby Atmos home theater system? They are clearly focused on having it work with headphones and 2 channel speakers source with 6 channel support coming at a later date. With how that is presented, it must mean they have to design the engine to output 3D audio for specific channel configurations, meaning they must have to designs a matrix for 9 channel and 11 channel surround systems independently. I know last summer, Microsoft claimed Xbox and Windows 10 will support both Dolby Atmos and DTS:X audio formats. That is really what I want.

It sounded like Sony's goal is to add support for multi-channel, but they started with 2-channel. If their solution proves to be inferior to the licensed solution, we'll surely hear about it; on the other hand - we are talking about Sony here who as a company has vast experience with A/V. If they invest the time and money, they could very well end up with something that eventually improves on the licensed solutions. The key take-away is that it's going to be "soft" and adaptable, so even if the solution on day one is kind of woeful - they can improve on it and evolve it.


Still .... if either Microsoft or Sony were to introduce a Console based UHD player that met AVSforum standards ... that'd be a first for the industry.
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post #64 of 73 Old 03-26-2020, 02:11 PM
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Did they cover the rumor of backwards compatibility to the older systems? That'd be the main draw for me vs going pc personally

Yes, they're working on compatibility with PS4 and PS4 Pro games, but they didn't say anything about PS1/2/3 games. The claim made in the presentation was that they've got most of the top titles working already and most of the rest should just work as well.
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post #65 of 73 Old 03-26-2020, 02:48 PM
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You still have to take Xbox Series X's faster RAM into account. 10GBs of the GDDR6 is 112GB/s faster than PS5's. And nothing Sony can do about having a less powerful GPU. Especially depending on how low the clock drops with variable frequencies in play. Exactly how low will it drop. Are we looking at 9TF? 8+ TF depending how demanding the game is?

We wont know for sure until folks like DigitalFoundry get their hands on the console and some games, but there's already plenty of speculation that the TFLOPS difference may not be all that key. Supposedly the game devs were more interested in higher clocking compute units rather than more slower clocked units. We'll have to see what they can really do.


As far as RAM goes, I don't see this making any difference. The PS5 has 16GB of GDDR6 with the same speed as an RTX-2080. That's nuts. The XBox has 10GB of RAM that's faster, and 6GB of RAM that's slower. It averages out to a slight improvement and a slight nuisance for the XBox devs to have to even think about (assuming MS doesn't grab all the slow RAM for their OS).


We'll ultimately have to see what the SSD speeds and 12-channel design bring to the party as well, but in PC design, the hard drive has been the low hanging fruit because the devices are so slow. It really does call for using the SSD in new and interesting ways, including virtual memory for instance - which is an operating system feature and wouldn't necessarily require the game developers to modify their code. Flip a switch and instead of 13GB of RAM free, they see 130GB free. Maybe VM would be to slow for graphics, but it could permit a lot more RAM for the actual game design while leaving the GPU with plenty of hard RAM.
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post #66 of 73 Old 03-26-2020, 03:16 PM
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Yes, they're working on compatibility with PS4 and PS4 Pro games, but they didn't say anything about PS1/2/3 games. The claim made in the presentation was that they've got most of the top titles working already and most of the rest should just work as well.
That's what I was curious about, was the rumor about previous generation compatibility. Would be awesome to have one box that can play them all.

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post #67 of 73 Old 03-26-2020, 04:32 PM
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That's what I was curious about, was the rumor about previous generation compatibility. Would be awesome to have one box that can play them all.

Yeah, we'll see. PS3 compatibility would be a nice feature for me, but technically I still own 2 of them; and I don't mind buying remastered versions of games that are worth the money.


It was fun to hear Cerni talking up the old Cell design in the PS3 and how it was better at DSP-like applications than the more general processors in the PS4. They've stolen a compute unit in the PS5 to use for audio processing.
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post #68 of 73 Old 03-27-2020, 11:13 AM
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You still have to take Xbox Series X's faster RAM into account. 10GBs of the GDDR6 is 112GB/s faster than PS5's. And nothing Sony can do about having a less powerful GPU. Especially depending on how low the clock drops with variable frequencies in play. Exactly how low will it drop. Are we looking at 9TF? 8+ TF depending how demanding the game is?

We wont know for sure until folks like DigitalFoundry get their hands on the console and some games, but there's already plenty of speculation that the TFLOPS difference may not be all that key. Supposedly the game devs were more interested in higher clocking compute units rather than more slower clocked units. We'll have to see what they can really do.


As far as RAM goes, I don't see this making any difference. The PS5 has 16GB of GDDR6 with the same speed as an RTX-2080. That's nuts. The XBox has 10GB of RAM that's faster, and 6GB of RAM that's slower. It averages out to a slight improvement and a slight nuisance for the XBox devs to have to even think about (assuming MS doesn't grab all the slow RAM for their OS).


We'll ultimately have to see what the SSD speeds and 12-channel design bring to the party as well, but in PC design, the hard drive has been the low hanging fruit because the devices are so slow. It really does call for using the SSD in new and interesting ways, including virtual memory for instance - which is an operating system feature and wouldn't necessarily require the game developers to modify their code. Flip a switch and instead of 13GB of RAM free, they see 130GB free. Maybe VM would be to slow for graphics, but it could permit a lot more RAM for the actual game design while leaving the GPU with plenty of hard RAM.
Yeah I've seen people throwing their percentages trying to downplay the Teraflops advantage and play up the SSD speed. It's a 1.8TF difference if PS5 can hit 2.23GHz. That's the same between Xbox One X and PS4 Pro. It should be noticeable in resolution and/or framerate. But, all PS5 has to do is drop to 2GHz with its variable clock and that drags the system down to 9.2TF. No one knows exactly how low the clock will drop. Especially as more games are developed for next gen only. Is there a speed it won't go below? And if the multiplier is around 1.62 going from GCN to RDNA2, that would make it 19.6TF vs 16.6TF (with PS5 maintaining highest clock). And this is not even going into how low the CPU will downclock. Or how often, if ever, can the CPU and GPU hit their top clocks simultaneously. Cerny should go more in depth.

All of the 10GB at 560GB/s RAM goes to games. The 2.5GB for the OS comes out of the 6GB at 336GB/s. Giving Series X 13.5GB available to games. We'll see what happens when devs need to use more than 10GB. We still have no word on how much PS5's OS will use.

And so far, the Series X sounds to have an advantage in Ray-tracing until proven in third-party games or when Sony goes more in depth. Series X does 380 billion intersections per second. And takes most the load off doing it in shaders which MS claimed that would consumed over 13TF alone.

Now for the SSD. PS5 has the advantage in I/O speed. That's not up for debate. But, again, is the 5.5GB/s raw maintained at all times? Or will it lose performance as it heats up like all SSDs have done? MS confirmed its 2.4GB/s raw is maintained at all times because performance drops due to heat was unacceptable. And Series X uses a Velocity Architecture to allow devs to store 100GB of game assets to the SSD. Will third-party games only load faster on PS5, or will game worlds load LOD faster? What will they target differently on PS5 that the Series X version can't do? Time will tell.

For me, still too many ifs and what-a-bouts with some of PS5's specs. Maybe in the end, the differences in third-party games is so small most won't care. Who knows. Maybe PS5 comes out on top in the Digital Foundry Head-to-Head videos and causes laughable meltdowns. Overall it won't matter to me because I plan on buying both at launch as I've owned a PlayStation and Xbox the last three generations. The only difference will be which system gets the exclusive-only treatment.

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post #69 of 73 Old 03-27-2020, 11:45 AM
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Isn't anyone bothered by the ambiguous mention of whether or not their proprietary 3D audio will work on a full multi channel Dolby Atmos home theater system? They are clearly focused on having it work with headphones and 2 channel speakers source with 6 channel support coming at a later date. With how that is presented, it must mean they have to design the engine to output 3D audio for specific channel configurations, meaning they must have to designs a matrix for 9 channel and 11 channel surround systems independently. I know last summer, Microsoft claimed Xbox and Windows 10 will support both Dolby Atmos and DTS:X audio formats. That is really what I want.
Yes, that bugged me. Sony has much smarter people than me working for them so I'm sure they thought of this, but ISTM that the best multichannel approach would be to transcode to an Atmos bitstream. I mean, Dolby's already done the heavy lifting for making sure an Atmos track plays back correctly on anything from 24.1.10 down to 5.1.2, so why reinvent the wheel for multichannel playback?
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post #70 of 73 Old 03-27-2020, 12:15 PM
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Yes, that bugged me. Sony has much smarter people than me working for them so I'm sure they thought of this, but ISTM that the best multichannel approach would be to transcode to an Atmos bitstream. I mean, Dolby's already done the heavy lifting for making sure an Atmos track plays back correctly on anything from 24.1.10 down to 5.1.2, so why reinvent the wheel for multichannel playback?

Perhaps because a) they're Sony and they have the experience, b) they want to be able to fix and tune the audio to their needs, or c) adding license fees increases the cost of the product and/or reduces profits.


Hopefully when it comes to UHD play back they can just pass-through the Atmos track without paying a fee, or they may decide they can't support that. I don't need them to decode it, anyway.
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post #71 of 73 Old Yesterday, 02:46 PM
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Isn't anyone bothered by the ambiguous mention of whether or not their proprietary 3D audio will work on a full multi channel Dolby Atmos home theater system? They are clearly focused on having it work with headphones and 2 channel speakers source with 6 channel support coming at a later date. With how that is presented, it must mean they have to design the engine to output 3D audio for specific channel configurations, meaning they must have to designs a matrix for 9 channel and 11 channel surround systems independently. I know last summer, Microsoft claimed Xbox and Windows 10 will support both Dolby Atmos and DTS:X audio formats. That is really what I want.

Well, HDMI 2.0b can support up to 32 channels of audio (maybe that's what Cerny was talking about when he said the Atmos could do 32 objects max) so my thought is that they could just convert the audio objects in the game into 12 channels of audio. 7 bed channels. 4 height channels and the LFE channel. Then allow those with fewer channels than that to do normal down-mixing. And those with higher channel counts can simply use Dolby Surround, DTS Neural X or Auromatic to upmix the audio to fit their configuration. In-game virtualization should be available for those who have older equipment that doesn't support 3d audio.


At least that's how I hope they handle it. Optimally, they will allow for Atmos or DTSX to be added on top of their own solution, so those without Atmos capable receivers can use their virtual 3d solution and those with newer equipment can choose to use Atmos if they so desire.


But I'm not going to hold my breath on that. Sony doesn't have the best track record when it comes to this stuff.

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post #72 of 73 Old Yesterday, 02:56 PM
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Perhaps because a) they're Sony and they have the experience, b) they want to be able to fix and tune the audio to their needs, or c) adding license fees increases the cost of the product and/or reduces profits.


Hopefully when it comes to UHD play back they can just pass-through the Atmos track without paying a fee, or they may decide they can't support that. I don't need them to decode it, anyway.

When it comes to movie playback, I am not worried about that at all. Both the PS4 (and Pro) and PS3 (the Slim and superslim) can do immersive audio with blu ray playback. So there isn't any reason for that to change with the PS5.


The real question is will it have Dolby Vision or just vanilla HDR10?

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post #73 of 73 Old Yesterday, 06:36 PM
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Perhaps because a) they're Sony and they have the experience, b) they want to be able to fix and tune the audio to their needs, or c) adding license fees increases the cost of the product and/or reduces profits.


Hopefully when it comes to UHD play back they can just pass-through the Atmos track without paying a fee, or they may decide they can't support that. I don't need them to decode it, anyway.

When it comes to movie playback, I am not worried about that at all. Both the PS4 (and Pro) and PS3 (the Slim and superslim) can do immersive audio with blu ray playback. So there isn't any reason for that to change with the PS5.


The real question is will it have Dolby Vision or just vanilla HDR10?
I'd be fine if they charged for Dolby Vision, but I wouldn't expect that and I doubt they'd eat the license fee when they're nearly giving these boxes away.

Would be nice but Sony sells standalone players and may want to avoid undercutting those. Just depends how they read the market. In the PS3 days BluRay players were very expensive and the PS3 probably eliminated HD Dvd and established the market for Sony.
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