PS5 Specs confirmed By Sony & AMD! Wow it's a beast! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 20Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 40 Old 04-16-2019, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,246
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3935 Post(s)
Liked: 2944
PS5 Specs confirmed By Sony & AMD! Wow it's a beast!

barrelbelly likes this.
player002 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 40 Old 04-16-2019, 10:41 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
https://www.wired.com/story/exclusiv...t-gen-console/
Lisa Su of AMD confirms

  • 8 core AMD 7nm Zen 2 based on third generation Ryzen.
  • Ray-tracing support with custom AMD Navi GPU.
  • Custom AMD unit for 3D Audio, also aided by ray-tracing, a big upgrade.
  • Extremely fast high-end custom SSD storage faster than any solution currently available for PC:
    Spider-Man load times on PS4 Pro: 15 seconds → 0.8 seconds on next-gen PlayStation.
  • Technically supports 8K but Cerny demoed Spider-Man load speed improvements on a 4K screen.
  • New Virtual Reality platform strongly hinted at but also supports current PSVR (meaning millions of VR users 'day one').
  • Death Stranding might be a cross-gen title (speculation in article based on Cerny reply).
  • Physical Media.
  • Backwards Compatible with at least PS4.
  • Four years in development so far.
  • 2020.

8K support means UHD 3D support, a HDMI 2.1 port and this Playstation is the one envisioned in the Sony CTO 2012 article.
1) The UHD 3D standard over HDMI still sends 2 frames and the first frame is still the first 2D image but the second frame is just depth map information in a B&W frame which requires 50% less bandwidth.
2) Since most games already support a depthmap, games properly supporting a depthmap can support 3D with no additional overhead. All PS5 games complying to a strict API/SDK for the game depth map could support 3D.

Quote:
For gaming, this Ultra D 3D glassless multi-frame sampling process would create an unacceptably noticeable lag of about 30 milliseconds, according to the Ultra-D representatives. But developers can get past that issue using an SDK that makes it easy to pass in-game depth data in a form the TV can immediately interpret, with no lag. Nvyve Studios Director Adam Simonar, who was on hand to show off "utopian survival horror" game Pamela with Ultra-D integration, said the SDK took just a few hours to fully integrate with the Unity graphics pipeline and a week to fine tune. ** The Unity game engine has been chosen to be a Browser standard and all UHD TVs require a browser to display ATSC 3.0. **

Aside from programming time, developers might also be worried that adding stereoscopic support will come with a significant performance hit. In the past, stereoscopic games often had to lower resolutions or remove graphical details in order to render a distinct view for each eye or to avoid hitting bandwidth caps on the GPU or even the HDMI cable itself. But Sobotta says the Ultra-D SDK doesn't require any noticeable performance compromises—just send a bit of depth data along with the full-resolution 2D image, and the display handles the rest instantly.

8K likely means:
1) AMD VM DRM
2) UHD blu-ray and maybe second generation UHD blu-ray with 8k and UHD 3D
3) Ray Tracing and 8k likely confirm rumored 8K AI Upscaling for games and media
4) 128 GB BDXL (4 layer) support, PS4s likely support this as well

3D audio (True Audio Next using the post 2016 GPU with QoS programmable CU reserve/dedication), Ray Tracing (audio and video) as well as VM DRM mean post 2016 GPU command processor likely not dedicated Audio or Ray tracing video hardware except maybe the AI Upscaler depending on the GPU performance.

13X PS4 Pro SSD speed likely means high clocked GDDR6, SoC IO (Maybe faster USB and LAN too) and GPU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/sony-ps5-ssd-raw-bandwidth
Sony hasn’t given any technical details about the SSD itself, such as who makes the controller or NAND flash memory, or even whether it’s using the PCIe 4.0 interface, but does say that “it has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs.”

“The raw read speed is important,” says Cerny, “but so are the details of the I/O mechanisms and the software stack that we put on top of them.
goke313, player002 and barrelbelly like this.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 06-11-2019 at 01:56 AM.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #3 of 40 Old 04-16-2019, 10:44 AM
Advanced Member
 
Raylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Raylon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 40 Old 04-16-2019, 11:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kenshiro 26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the Singularity of a Black Hole
Posts: 1,336
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Liked: 1392
Wondering how big the "custom" SSD will be...

XBOX LIVE - Kenshiro 26
PSN | Origin - Kenshiro26
Steam | Uplay - Kenshiro_26
Battle.net - Kenshiro26#1462
Kenshiro 26 is online now  
post #5 of 40 Old 04-16-2019, 06:23 PM
Yrd
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Yrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Elkton, MD
Posts: 4,136
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 804 Post(s)
Liked: 540
Man they are reaching far with that 8k. When our current $1500 top of the line gpus just hit acceptable 4k performance.

I need a device to play the few uhd blu rays I own, so here's hoping they add that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenshiro 26 View Post
Wondering how big the "custom" SSD will be...
My guess would be a hybrid drive.
Yrd is offline  
post #6 of 40 Old 04-17-2019, 04:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
moepoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Birch Run, MI
Posts: 1,557
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 351 Post(s)
Liked: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenshiro 26 View Post
Wondering how big the "custom" SSD will be...
Pretty sure the article said it would be a 2TB. Unless you are meaning the actual physical size....

PSN ID= moepoker
XBL ID= moepoker
moepoker is offline  
post #7 of 40 Old 04-18-2019, 02:39 PM
Member
 
DistractedforLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I think it will have a launch date of sometime March next year...
DistractedforLife is offline  
post #8 of 40 Old 04-19-2019, 12:42 AM
Member
 
goke313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New York City/Denver
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 47
I'm hoping its first quarter 2020. Have yet to purchase a UHD Blu Ray for this reason
goke313 is offline  
post #9 of 40 Old 04-22-2019, 06:00 AM
EM3
Advanced Member
 
EM3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Logan, WV.
Posts: 604
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 70
damn that is tempting

This space for rent!
EM3 is offline  
post #10 of 40 Old 04-22-2019, 06:06 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Sony PlayStation 5 Arriving in 2019, Linked to 4K TV Adoption: Analyst

Can we now say the PS5 release date is linked to 8K TV adoption? Release date is likely Nov 2020 and Sony will be shipping their 8K TVs end of Q2 2020.

Pachter seems to have assumed 4K support (2019 PS5 release date) as well as vigorously denied rumors of 4K @ 240 FPS support in the PS5. After I was proved wrong about 4K UHD blu-ray support in the PS4s I tried to determine Sony's endgame. By 6/2017 I had determined that the PS5 would support 8K. Key points have emerged:

1) The 2012 Sony CTO article on what was needed for the PS4; 300FPS at 8K. This requires a HDMI 2.1 port with the standard released late 2017 but chipsets shipping 2019.
2) All 8K TVs support 4K and 8K at 120 FPS. Every PS4 can support ATSC 3.0 as economics will require 1080P or less resolution but the next step in VR which require 120 FPS and greater than 1080P/eye will require HDMI 2.1.
3) The UHD standard required a depthmap to support 3D and nearly all games support a depthmap. With a strict API/SDK for game depthmaps, all PS5 games can support 3D with no additional overhead. The PS5 will create two frames to support 3D, a 2D frame and a monochrome depthmap side by side @ 240 FPS inside a 4K or 8K at 120 FPS envelope.

4) While Sony has a BDA license to support UHD Blu-ray on Game Consoles and PCs, they have not implemented it yet. They may have been waiting for Navi in the PS5 and PCs and I'd guess that Navi supports the UHD depthmap standard and AMD's secure VM as well as a HDMI 2.1 port. This may be Sony's plan to support 8k/3D and a second generation Full UHD Blu-ray player a year ahead of the competition.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 06-11-2019 at 01:58 AM.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #11 of 40 Old 04-22-2019, 12:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newfmp3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NFLD, Canada
Posts: 4,593
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 355
8k rofl. This is the same company that promised 1080p on a PS3, and again on the Ps4 and they were still using scaling to achieve it. Even on a Pro they cheat for 4k. Come on, never happening. As a media player sure, but games? no way. 2 generations away.
d34dl1n3r likes this.
newfmp3 is offline  
post #12 of 40 Old 04-23-2019, 03:17 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post
8k rofl. This is the same company that promised 1080p on a PS3, and again on the Ps4 and they were still using scaling to achieve it. Even on a Pro they cheat for 4k. Come on, never happening. As a media player sure, but games? no way. 2 generations away.
Agreed, no 8K 2D games but 8K 3D is a 4K + depthmap in a 8K envelope which has no more overhead than a 4K game and we will see 4K games on the PS5.

PS5: Sony Patents Hint at How Its Next VR Headsets Will Forge New Ground

While it hasn’t been confirmed by Sony, a monstrous batch of leaks allegedly posted by an anonymous game developer hinted that the PSVR 2 headset will be sold separately for $250, support 2,560 x 1,440 resolution, 120Hz, provide a 220-degree field of view, eye-tracking, five hours of battery life, and come with integrated headphones. These cutting-edge features will all be possible without being connected to your console, thanks to high-frequency radio waves.

PlayStation console will encode VR video data into a 60 GHz frequency, which would then be beamed to the headset and decoded. It also explains how this technique could be used both for games and video streams, which would let users enjoy all kinds of immersive VR experiences without tripping over wires or yanking their console out of place. The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) tested this exact frequency before, and was able to transfer data at rates of 7 Gigabits per second within a ten meter radius.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 04-24-2019 at 01:40 PM.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #13 of 40 Old 04-25-2019, 09:13 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Stereo 3D (side by side) requires glasses while Automultiscopic is glassless. Current 3D stereo movies can be converted to 3D automultiscopic glassless with the GPU in a Playstation. Current 4K UHD displays can be shipped with a 3D automultiscopic display with 8 views and an HD spatial resolution); I.E. there is a resolution drop -> 8K is better.

Paper on depthmap to multi-view conversion.

Quote:
There is a clear need for methods and systems that can convert streaming, high-resolution, stereoscopic video available from the standard delivery channels to high-quality, multiview content in real time. Furthermore, the methods should be amenable to hardware implementations such that they can be incorporated in future streaming TV devices and smart TV sets.

We demonstrate that our method can provide real-time performance both on a GPU and a Field-programmable gate array (FPGA). We evaluate our method on a variety of stereoscopic test scenes and Hollywood movies.

Lagrangian techniques recover depth information First [Brown et al. 2003], and then use re-projection [Mark et al. 1997] to create novel views [Smolic et al. 2008]. Using such an approach, Riechert et al. [2012] and Liao et al. [2013] built systems for real-time stereo-to-multiview conversion, and similar techniques are used in the context of view reprojection for virtual reality.
The UHD standard for IPTV 3D streaming using a depthmap was released as one of the 3D standards with HDMI 1.4. It requires 25% less bandwidth and can more easily support Glassless 3D TVs. In addition nearly all modern games use a depthmap internally. VR uses a depthmap so all modern games should be able to support VR and autostereoscopic MULTIVIEW glassless 3D.

Conversely a Game console designed to support VR should be able to support autostereoscopic multi-view 3D media and games.

In addition the future needs:
1) DVR
2) 8K or 4K upscaling (same hardware needed for Anti-Alias in the Stereo 3D to multi-view 3D conversion and game Anti-alias)
3) video format and resolution conversion up and down to support all the TVs in a home, many that will be HD only
4) Conversion of older 3D (side by side) to autostereoscopic and conversion of newer UHD IPTV 3d WITH DEPTHMAP to side by side for older 3D TVs.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 04-25-2019 at 09:16 AM.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #14 of 40 Old 04-27-2019, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,246
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3935 Post(s)
Liked: 2944
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistractedforLife View Post
I think it will have a launch date of sometime March next year...
No looks like Fall 2020
player002 is offline  
post #15 of 40 Old 04-29-2019, 08:31 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by player002 View Post
No looks like Fall 2020 https://youtu.be/b7XQ2Si4xCc
March 2020 rather than Nov 2020 would be unusual. Sony 8K TVs start shipping Q2 2020 and the PS5 could help sell those 8K TVs. Conversely, a PS5 without a new PSVR goggle or a 8K glassless 3D TV is just an expensive slightly faster PS4 pro.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #16 of 40 Old 04-29-2019, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,246
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3935 Post(s)
Liked: 2944
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post
March 2020 rather than Nov 2020 would be unusual. Sony 8K TVs start shipping Q2 2020 and the PS5 could help sell those 8K TVs. Conversely, a PS5 without a new PSVR goggle or a 8K glassless 3D TV is just an expensive slightly faster PS4 pro.
Sony confirmed in Investor call No ps5 for 12 mths,, Fall 2020 100% confirmed now.
https://wccftech.com/playstation-5-n...medium=twitter
player002 is offline  
post #17 of 40 Old 04-29-2019, 11:51 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by player002 View Post
Sony confirmed in Investor call No ps5 for 12 mths,, Fall 2020 100% confirmed now.
https://wccftech.com/playstation-5-n...medium=twitter
Actually 12 months from now would be Q2 2020 (Sony 8K TV release date) not Fall 2020. Again, Fall 2020 is the traditional and likely release date for a new console.
player002 likes this.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #18 of 40 Old 04-29-2019, 12:40 PM
Senior Member
 
DD/DTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 🏡
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 957
"PS5 Specs confirmed By Sony & AMD! Wow it's a beast!"



Gotta get me one of those!
player002 likes this.

Main:🎭Denon AVR-S740H/Sony UBP-X800/Sanyo 55" 4K UHD HDR/Paradigm Cinema 100 x6/Cinema Center 1/Cinema Sub x2/CM-4228/7778/7600/LTE filter/RG-6 Quad Shield coax. Bedroom:📺Samsung 42" plasma/Samsung HT-J4500/Aluratek ADTB01F HD DVR. PC:🖥Dell Optiplex 780/intel Q9650/16gb DDR3/GT710/SB Audigy FX/Logitech X-530/RCA 32" HDTV. GameConsoles:🎮PSone/PS2/PS3/PS4/Xbox/Xbox360/Xbox OneX/NDS Lite/DSi XL *Jerry Austin*
DD/DTS is offline  
post #19 of 40 Old 05-20-2019, 08:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
TedSeattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,553
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Liked: 385
A demonstration of the load times:

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status...631105/video/1
DaverJ, moepoker and kamouflage like this.
TedSeattle is offline  
post #20 of 40 Old 05-22-2019, 08:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
kamouflage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mesquite, TX
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 139
I’ve seen this video around the net and this is what will make me want to upgrade. I’ll be trading in and re-downloading my PS4 games to get me through the new gen drought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Xbox Live: PikturePerfekt
PSN: PikturePerfekt07
kamouflage is offline  
post #21 of 40 Old 08-01-2019, 07:54 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
RE: Release date

If Sony wants a monolithic APU/SoC or a faster/cheaper (higher yield) CPU/GPU + IO chiplet they need to wait for AMD's second generation UV design where more (than 4) of the chip layers use the UV forge process.

Second generation 7nm-first generation EUV:
Quote:
TSMC, the world's biggest contract semiconductor manufacturer, who is at the forefront of 7 nanometer production has just announced that they are making good progress with their second generation of 7 nm technology "N7+", using EUV (Extreme Ultraviolet Lithography). A first design for N7+ from an unnamed customer has been taped out. The company's first-gen 7 nm production is running well already, with final products, like Apple iPhone already in the hands of customers (Article Oct 2018).

While not fully EUV yet, the N7+ process will see limited EUV usage, for up to four non-critical layers, which gives the company an opportunity to figure out how to make best use of the new technology, how to ramp up for mass production and how to fix the little quirks that show up as soon as you move from the lab to the factory.

The new technology is expected to bring 6-12% lower power and 20% better density
Quote:
Moving beyond 7 nanometers, TSMC's target is 5 nm, internally called "N5". This process will use EUV for up to 14 layers and is expected to be ready for risk production in April 2019. According to TSMC, many of their IP blocks are ready for N5, with the exception of PCIe Gen 4 and USB 3.1. We have all been waiting for PCIe Gen 4 on new GPUs and it looks like we'll have to wait even longer for this new version to become available. Compared to the N7 designs, which have initial costs in the $150 million range, the cost for N5 is expected to increase even further, up to $200 to $250 million.
So more EUV layers @ 7nm = denser designs = faster clocks and/or higher yield but more design cost. Game Console volumes can support this.
If 7nm follows previous roadmaps then RISK production for a 2020 console starts Oct 2019 but risk production for 5nm with 14 EUV layers starts April 2019 (above), semi-custom risk designs sometime later. We have been told that the PS5 will ship, likely holiday 2020 and at 7nm. I suspect a 5nm PS5 will ship holiday 2021 with reduced cost for the SoC....

More EUV layers, AV1 hardware encoder and HDMI 2.1 could be possible reasons for the delay from holiday 2019 to Holiday 2020 (7n+ or N7+ was apparently ready).

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 08-02-2019 at 06:08 AM.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #22 of 40 Old 08-05-2019, 03:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dabois09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 762
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 118
I'm thinking a good 4k set will be the way to go this generation.

An 8k set will use up scaling and tricks etc but nonetheless probably won't achieve the framerates 4k will.
Dabois09 is offline  
post #23 of 40 Old 08-07-2019, 05:59 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabois09 View Post
I'm thinking a good 4k set will be the way to go this generation.

An 8k set will use up scaling and tricks etc but nonetheless probably won't achieve the framerates 4k will.
Autostereoscopic 3D requires more processing power provided by the TV given first frame + depthmap second frame and the 5+ views result in a 8K TV displaying glassless 3D at 1080P. A 4K TV displaying Autostereoscopic glassless 3D would have fewer viewing angles and lower display resolution likely 720P.

1080P might be one of the gaming standards for glassless 3D given the above. So possibles are the following with newer 8K UHD 3D TVs using a First frame + depthmap scheme; this requires NO game console additional overhead to display 3D:

8K 2D with games upscaled
4K 3D with passive glasses
4K 3D with active shutter glasses
1080P with 8K TV autostereoscopic glassless 3D


8K Eye tracking (one or two View) autostereoscopic 3D TVs/Monitors could display 4K 3D but it's considered impractical for the home living room.
VR goggles (3D) only have the limitation of the display they are designed with so next generation could be 1080P, 1440P, 4K
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #24 of 40 Old 08-20-2019, 06:32 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Two posts confirmed by Industry sources; Game streaming will move to AV1 with possible fallback to VP9, 100% by 2025.

AV1's free to use codec is likely going to evolve as the future standard for game streaming which requires hardware codec hardware to reduce latency....this then impacts the roadmap for AV1 media and game streaming.

Twitch (game streaming) plans to use AV1 100% by 2025 when all media streaming hardware should support AV1.

Quote:
We can only afford streaming one single format, so our strategy is currently still doing H.264 using hardware, high-density hardware solution, but we're hoping towards 2024, 2025, the AV1 ecosystem is ready, we want to switch to AV1 100%.

Jan Ozer: Did you say 2024 and 2025?

Yueshi Shen: 2024, this is our projection right now. But on the other hand, so as I said, our AV1 release will be, for the head content will be a lot sooner, we are hoping 2022-2023 we are going to release AV1 for the head content. But for the head content, we will continue to stream dual-format, AV1, H.264. But for the tail content, we are hoping towards five years from now to AV1, whole eco, every five-year-old device supports AV1. Then, we will be switching to AV1 100%.
The requirement to have a hardware encoder to reduce game latency likely was a factor in the PS5 release timing. AMD is a AV1 partner (hardware encoder). Notice Twitch is not supporting HEVC which likely means AMD will only be supporting h.264, HEVC, VP9 and possibly AV1 hardware encoding in their GPUs (PS5 and next Xbox).


Quote:
AV1 fixed function circuits are being designed into x86 and ARM SoCs right now, and it would be surprising if there wasn't AV1 hardware-accelerated decode in the PS5.

The PS5, with its 8x Zen 2 cores, could easily decode a 4K HDR AV1 stream on its CPU cores, but you'd lose the ability to do things like play a game and watch a Netflix stream at the same time in PiP mode, and other cool stuff like that.

Sony aren't part of AOMedia but AMD are; it's possible that AV1 HWA will be handled by a custom chip soldered onto the board, or that the PS5's semi-custom Zen 2 design will have native support for AV1.

tl;dr: the PS5 should support hardware AV1 decode, but AV1 was only finalized a year ago, and it's possible that AV1 fixed function units missed the cut-off to make it into the Zen 2 / PS5 design.
Quote:
The next-gen AV1 video codec is going to overtake HEVC very quickly in a couple of years from now, because YouTube, Netflix, and Amazon are all already starting to convert their video content to it. In a couple of years all of that content will be played by default in AV1 and will fallback to VP9/h.264 if there isn't even a software decoder on the device playing it.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 01-03-2020 at 07:43 AM.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #25 of 40 Old 10-08-2019, 08:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kenshiro 26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the Singularity of a Black Hole
Posts: 1,336
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Liked: 1392
https://www.wired.com/story/exclusive-playstation-5/

Quote:
Ever since the original PlayStation hit the market in 1994, Sony's series of videogame consoles has stuck to the numbers. No "Super," no "Max," no "Code Red Xtreme"; just PlayStations 2, 3, and 4. With such unwavering consistency, the name of the next iteration has been a question only in the most technical sense—but Sony Interactive Entertainment CEO Jim Ryan is still ready to answer it. The console, he tells me, will be called PlayStation 5. "It's nice to be able to say it," he says. "Like a giant burden has been lifted from my shoulders."

So. There you go. PlayStation 5, holidays 2020.

Sony hasn't said too much about the console since April, when WIRED broke the story about development efforts on what was then known only as the "next-gen console." In fact, the company hasn't said anything. Sony skipped games show E3 this year, a void during which Microsoft unveiled details about its own next-gen console, a successor to the Xbox One referred to only as Project Scarlett. Like the PS5, Scarlett will boast a CPU based on AMD’s Ryzen line and a GPU based on its Navi family; like the PS5, it will ditch the spinning hard drive for a solid-state drive. Now, though, in a conference room at Sony’s US headquarters, Ryan and system architect Mark Cerny are eager to share specifics.

Before they do, Cerny wants to clarify something. When we last discussed the forthcoming console, he spoke about its ability to support ray-tracing, a technique that can enable complex lighting and sound effects in 3D environments. Given the many questions he’s received since, he fears he may have been ambiguous about how the PS5 would accomplish this—and confirms that it’s not a software-level fix, which some had feared. “There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware,” he says, “which I believe is the statement that people were looking for.” (A belief born out by my own Twitter mentions, which for a couple of weeks in April made a graphics-rendering technique seem like the only thing the internet had ever cared about.)

With that in hand, back to the PS5's solid-state drive, which Cerny first extolled for the way it can turn loading time from a hassle to a blink. It’s not just the speed that makes the SSD formidable, he says, but the efficiency it offers. Think about the hard drive in a game console, spinning like a 5400-rpm vinyl record. For the console to read a piece of information off the drive, it first has to send out the disk head—like a turntable needle—to find it. Each “seek,” as it’s known, may only entail a scant handful of milliseconds, but seeks add up. To minimize them, developers will often duplicate certain game assets in order to form contiguous data blocks, which the drive can read faster. We’re talking common stuff here: lampposts, anonymous passersby.

But data adds up too. "If you look at a game like Marvel's Spider-Man," Cerny says, "there are some pieces of data duplicated 400 times on the hard drive." The SSD sweeps away the need for all that duping—so not only is its raw read speed dramatically faster than a hard drive, but it saves crucial space. How developers will take advantage of that space will likely differ; some may opt to build a larger or more detailed game world, others may be content to shrink the size of the games or patches. Either way, physical games for the PS5 will use 100GB optical disks, inserted into an optical drive that doubles as a 4K Bluray player.

However, game installation (which is mandatory, given the speed difference between the SSD and the optical drive) will be a bit different than in the PS4. This time around, aided in part by the simplified game data possible with the SSD, Sony is changing its approach to storage, making for a more configurable installation—and removal—process. "Rather than treating games like a big block of data," Cerny says, "we're allowing finer-grained access to the data." That could mean the ability to install just a game's multiplayer campaign, leaving the single-player campaign for another time, or just installing the whole thing and then deleting the single-player campaign once you've finished it.

Regardless of what parts of a game you choose to install and play, you'll be able to stay abreast of it via a completely revamped user interface. The PS4's bare-bones home screen at times feels frozen in amber; you can see what your friends have recently done, or even what game title they might be playing at the moment, but without launching an individual title, there's no way to tell what single-player missions you could do or what multiplayer matches you can join. The PS5 will change that. "Even though it will be fairly fast to boot games, we don't want the player to have to boot the game, see what's up, boot the game, see what's up," Cerny says. "Multiplayer game servers will provide the console with the set of joinable activities in real time. Single-player games will provide information like what missions you could do and what rewards you might receive for completing them—and all of those choices will be visible in the UI. As a player you just jump right into whatever you like."

He says this like he says many other things: knowing he'll fend off any follow-up question that ventures beyond what he wants to talk about. Like, What does the UI actually look like? Or, How big will the SSD be? Or even, Is that a microphone? Which is exactly what I ask when Cerny hands me a prototype of the next-generation controller, an unlabeled matte-black doohickey that looks an awful lot like the PS4's DualShock 4. After all, there's a little hole on it, and a recently published patent points to Sony developing a voice-driven AI assistant for the PlayStation. But all I get from Cerny is, "We'll talk more about it another time." ("We file patents on a regular basis," a spokesperson tells me later, "and like many companies, some of those patents end up in our products, and some don’t.")

The controller (which history suggests will one day be called the DualShock 5, though Cerny just says "it doesn't have a name yet") does have some features Cerny's more interested in acknowledging. One is "adaptive triggers" that can offer varying levels of resistance to make shooting a bow and arrow feel like the real thing—the tension increasing as you pull the arrow back—or make a machine gun feel far different from a shotgun. It also boasts haptic feedback far more capable than the rumble motor console gamers are used to, with highly programmable voice-coil actuators located in the left and right grips of the controller.

Combined with an improved speaker on the controller, the haptics can enable some astonishing effects. First, I play through a series of short demos, courtesy of the same Japan Studio team that designed PlayStation VR's Astro Bot Rescue Mission. In the most impressive, I ran a character through a platform level featuring a number of different surfaces, all of which gave distinct—and surprisingly immersive—tactile experiences. Sand felt slow and sloggy; mud felt slow and soggy. On ice, a high-frequency response made the thumbsticks really feel like my character was gliding. Jumping into a pool, I got a sense of the resistance of the water; on a wooden bridge, a bouncy sensation.

Next, a version of Gran Turismo Sport that Sony had ported over to a PS5 devkit—a devkit that on quick glance looks a lot like the one Gizmodo reported on last week. (The company refused to comment on questions about how the devkit's form factor might compare to what's being considered for the consumer product.) Driving on the border between the track and the dirt, I could feel both surfaces. Doing the same thing on the same track using a DualShock 4 on a PS4, that sensation disappeared entirely. It wasn't that the old style rumble feedback paled in comparison, it was that there was no feedback at all. User tests found that rumble feedback was too tiring to use continuously, so the released version of GT Sport simply didn't use it.

That difference has been a long time coming. Product manager Toshi Aoki says the controller team has been working on haptic feedback since the DualShock 4 was in development. They even could have included it in PS4 Pro, the mid-cycle refresh—though doing so would have created a "split experience" for gamers, so the feature suite was held for the next generation. There are some other small improvements over the DualShock 4. The next-gen controller uses a USB Type-C connector for charging (and you can play through the cable as well). Its larger-capacity battery and haptics motors make the new controller a bit heavier than the DualShock 4, but Aoki says it will still come in a bit lighter than the current Xbox controller "with batteries in it."

How game studios will use all these new features—from previously known ones like the SSD and ray-tracing acceleration to newer ones like the controller and real-time UI—is still a matter of some speculation. While a number of studios already had their PS5 devkits, the controller prototypes began rolling out much more recently, and no one is ready to name specific titles they're developing for the PS5. "We're working on a big one right now," says Marco Thrush, president of Bluepoint Games, which most recently worked on last year's PS4 remake of Shadow of the Colossus. "I'll let you figure out the rest."

That doesn't mean they're not exploring. "The SSD has me really excited," Thrush says. "You don't need to do gameplay hacks anymore to artificially slow players down—lock them behind doors, anything like that. Back in the cartridge days, games used to load instantly; we're kind of going back to what consoles used to be."

"I could be really specific and talk about experimenting with ambient occlusion techniques, or the examination of ray-traced shadows," says Laura Miele, chief studio officer for EA. "More generally, we’re seeing the GPU be able to power machine learning for all sorts of really interesting advancements in the gameplay and other tools." Above all, Miele adds, it's the speed of everything that will define the next crop of consoles. "We're stepping into the generation of immediacy. In mobile games, we expect a game to download in moments, and to be just a few taps from jumping right in. Now we’re able to tackle that in a big way."

That sort of tackle gets a lot easier, Jim Ryan knows, when a burden has been lifted from your shoulders. So say hello to the PlayStation 5, officially. Maybe one of these days we'll all learn what the thing actually looks like.
jeff_rigby likes this.

XBOX LIVE - Kenshiro 26
PSN | Origin - Kenshiro26
Steam | Uplay - Kenshiro_26
Battle.net - Kenshiro26#1462
Kenshiro 26 is online now  
post #26 of 40 Old 10-08-2019, 11:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
drewTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 4,850
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2269 Post(s)
Liked: 2457
So when should I put my PS4 on eBay? lol

LG OLED65E8 | Plinius Hiato | Dynaudio Contour 20 | Dynaudio Stand 6 | REL S/510 | PS Audio DirectStream | Furman IT-Reference 15i | roon
Panasonic DP-UB9000 | Synology DS916+ | Apple TV 4K | BDI Mirage | NEEO | Focal Shape 40 | iFi Pro iDSD | iFi Pro iRack | iFi AC iPurifier
drewTT is offline  
post #27 of 40 Old 10-09-2019, 01:34 AM
Member
 
Marine121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
So when should I put my PS4 on eBay? lol
Right after Christmas?
Marine121 is offline  
post #28 of 40 Old 10-10-2019, 02:35 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine121 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
So when should I put my PS4 on eBay? lol
Right after Christmas? [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Bring it on! Now games will cost $80 ibstead of 60 but well worth it!
Joev1983 is offline  
post #29 of 40 Old 10-18-2019, 08:02 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
AMD is allegedly targeting its big December driver release to introduce ray tracing support for its Radeon RX 5000 series graphics cards. In fact, ray tracing code has already been spotted in the company's graphics drivers for Microsoft's recently released Gears 5 .



Setting the foundation for ray tracing on the driver side would lay the groundwork for full-fledged hardware support for the feature, which is expected to debut alongside the company's upcoming second generation RDNA graphics architecture which is set to come next year.

We've already heard both Microsoft and Sony confirm that their upcoming next generation XBOX Scarlett and PlayStation 5 consoles will in fact feature next generation RDNA graphics engines with dedicated ray tracing hardware acceleration. Both next generation consoles are expected to launch in the 2020 holiday season.
DaverJ likes this.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #30 of 40 Old 01-03-2020, 07:38 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
ATSC 3.0 OTA Tuners Will Be Released in the US in The Next Few Days

Some STB/ATSC 3.0 tuners will support Android TV....TVs then just monitors. AT&T removing support from Roku, streaming war heats up as cable cutting due to ATSC 3.o draws near. Home Network tuners and dongles for each TV likely also.

Quote:
NEXTGEN TV, powered by ATSC 3.0, will be one of the key technologies highlighted at next week’s CES® 2020 consumer technology extravaganza in Las Vegas. The first U.S. consumer receivers with integrated NEXTGEN TV capabilities are expected to be announced in the coming days, highlighting the key consumer benefits of enhanced audio and video designed to offer an immersive and effortless experience for the early adopters of the new system.
Sony has hinted that they will be showing something PS5 along with their ATSC 3.0 - 8K - UHD TVs.
brickyardz likes this.
jeff_rigby is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply PlayStation Area

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off