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post #31 of 48 Old 11-14-2015, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I want to play my classic games on a modern HDTV! I know these are first world problems...


So there doesn't appear to be a really good way to get old systems working on modern TVs.
There absolutely is* (*well.. light gun games won't work) The following is a massive post, but a worthwhile read if you want to play SNES on you HD set.

I just got done putting together a new entertainment center. I wanted everything hooked up to the main TV in the house, retro consoles included. This is a matter of opinion of course, but I don't like folks' set ups where it looks like they're living in the stock room of a used game store. With everything on display. I wanted a way to conceal the vintage console equipment but have it quickly accessible. I went with a Besta unit from Ikea, the rail sliders were on clearance for $1 (!)

The modern AV stuff is in the middle of the unit, older stuff on the sides I can just slide a door over if I want to play some SNES or Genesis. I have cheapo controller extension cables purchased off Amazon that can easily reach the couch.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...3&d=1447560878
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...7&d=1447560878

For legacy analog consoles, I am using a X-RGB Mini Framemeister. Purchased from:
https://solarisjapan.com/products/xr...up-scaler-unit
(if you order, select the +DT option. That is the component video adapter that will let you plug up stuff like a wii, ps2 etc..)

You will also want the remote control English overlay. Since the remote is in Japanese
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XRGB-Mini-Fr...wAAOxygPtSwvBd

The power supply included is a universal voltage type, so you can just plug it in the wall.

I purchased all my RGB Scart cables, and Scart to Framemeister adapter from ebay seller retro_console_accessories. All their stuff is top quality.
http://stores.ebay.com/Retro-Accesso...p2047675.l2563
Note: When the seller goes on break, weekend etc.. they will unlist items for sale. Just check back on occasion if that's the case.

Note:The adapter included with the framemeister from Micomsoft is wired JP-21 standard. And is incompatible with SCART cables, which is why I ordered the Scart to Framemeister Cable from ebay.

I am unaware of any reliable, cheap, decent sized SCART selector. So.... the cable ends simply sit next to the X-RGB and I plug in as needed.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1447560878

So with all that out of the way.. was the Framemeister worth the 300 bucks. Absolutely. This is pretty lengthy but I'll try to explain what it does and why it's awesome.

So... most upscalers external and TV internal see a 240P signal as 480i. As such, they will deinterlace an image that is actually progressive. If you play Sonic 2 on a HDTV for example by plugging in your Genesis, the shield will show combing artifacts that shouldn't be there. Flickering shadows and other stuff will be butchered as well.

The framemeister will actually detect a 240P signal as 240P and upscale it properly. When hooking up a RGB capable system, this means a picture showing emulator quality pixels can be displayed. The following is my SNES mini scaled to 5X original resolution:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...9&d=1447560878

If you like the look of old tv's there's also a built in scanline option:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...5&d=1447560878

The Framemeister is also very fast in processing. I have it hooked up to a Sony KDL-60W630B, and in game mode with all the post processing nonsense turned off I can discern absolutely no input lag. Any lag you get with the framemeister is from your TV, not the X-RGB.

So what does this mean for the SNES? The original brick SNES units all output RGB to the multi out without any modification. The SNES mini is RGB capable, but it must be restored to the AV multi out. It's a relatively simple mod. I did mine myself using a the RGB amp board purchased from retrorgb.com

This video should cover everything you need to know about SNES video:

The Framemeister also has the ability to save system profile settings (I think up to 20). So you don't have to redial in all the scaling options when you switch consoles. I downloaded my profiles from:
http://www.firebrandx.com/pixelpurist.html

Besides the price, there is one downside to the X-RGB that I must mention, but it's more of a mild annoyance. On 32-bit era systems such as the Saturn and Playstation: a few games switch between 480i menus and 240P gameplay. When this switch happens the Framemeister drops out video for a few seconds as it changes over processing modes. Like I said it's just a minor annoyance, I use my Saturn through the Framemeister and it looks great.

A word of caution, some folks may recommend another RGB scart to HDMI upscaler that can be purchased on amazon for 50 bucks. That 50 bucks would be better spent on TP. Firstly, that unit sees 240P as 480i, so you will still get the deinterlacing artifacts. There's input lag with that unit. And there's motion blur, scrolling backgrounds turn smeary. Put that 50 bucks in a jar towards the Framemeister.

Back to the SNES. Shown in the photo of my SNES mini is a SD2SNES flashcart. It's the best flash cart on the market as it supports many of the SNES enhancement chips. For those familiar with higan, it also supports Byuu's MSU1 chip. So this means you get CD quality audio and video on your actual SNES! I am currently playing through Chrono Trigger again at my leisure with a full orchestrated soundtrack.

Of course, there's other ways to run SNES games in HD. I have nothing against emulation, I just like the original hardware and nostalgia that goes with it. I personally wouldn't purchase a retron 5 since it's just a emulator with shoddy build quality. I'd rather just use my media center PC and usb controller adapters.

I hope all this points someone in the right direction.
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post #32 of 48 Old 11-17-2015, 07:13 AM
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Thanks for the post!


I looked at the Framemeister and it seems like a snazzy solution but the price-- I just can't justify it. Maybe if I had a wealth of systems like yourself but I'm interested in SNES pretty much exclusively and even then there are only a handful of games that I would want to play. I've had one perfectly preserved SNES bite the dust (this hardware is now over 20 years old so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised) and I've not had great luck with the SNES clones I've tried so dropping $300 to play actual hardware on my HDTV seems like a gamble. Nevermind for $300 I could build another computer or just buy a cheapo PC and make it a dedicated 'HTPC'. I know a lot of people frown on emulation and I certainly would love to play the real thing but emulation is just so damned easy. I'm running the latest version of higan with a pair of iBuffalo classic gamepads and it's a beautifully accurate SNES experience that you might even say is better than the real thing. Only thing I'm really missing is the satisfaction of plugging in my own carts.


Now if someone would sell me new hardware that would play my old carts with a native HDMI output (as in actual hardware not emulation) I would be all over that. As it stands I don't have much faith in used OEM equipment or new knock offs. I watn an SNES version of the Analogue NT!

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post #33 of 48 Old 11-17-2015, 07:50 AM
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Now if someone would sell me new hardware that would play my old carts with a native HDMI output (as in actual hardware not emulation) I would be all over that. As it stands I don't have much faith in used OEM equipment or new knock offs. I watn an SNES version of the Analogue NT!
The analogue NT isn't really new though. They've simply repurposed (by ripping apart front loaders) 30 year old NES processing components and slapped them on a new circuit board with some extra mods. That thing is completely overpriced for what it is. You can do the same exact thing to an existing NES. Install a new cap kit, voltage regulator, edge connector, slap in the mods and be done cost less $$$.

OEM used cart equipment is super reliable. I've encounterd way more still working systems than not. My childhood Genesis model 2 is still working just fine. Heck, there's still plenty of late 70's and early 80's arcade machines that are still chugging along. Did you bother to even troubleshoot your dead SNES? Alot of times it could be as simple as needing new capacitors which only cost a few bucks, or a solder pad needs reflowing, or maybe even the plastic power port finally gave up the ghost.

Folks are working on standalone HDMI mods for certain systems and you wouldn't need a Framemeister for them. The NES HDMI unit is out, and there's currently one in development for the N64. There will probably be one for the SNES at some point, but getting a system with these installed is about what you'd spend on the price of a framemeister and at that point you could use it for other systems.

As far as new hardware I don't think Nintendo will officially produce a new SNES. Even if they do it wouldn't be using decades old chip dies. If it's hardware based would most likely be a FPGA based unit which would essentially just make it another official "clone" system like the 1Chip units were.
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post #34 of 48 Old 11-18-2015, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 2WheelsWillTravel View Post
The analogue NT isn't really new though. They've simply repurposed (by ripping apart front loaders) 30 year old NES processing components and slapped them on a new circuit board with some extra mods. That thing is completely overpriced for what it is. You can do the same exact thing to an existing NES. Install a new cap kit, voltage regulator, edge connector, slap in the mods and be done cost less $$$.

OEM used cart equipment is super reliable. I've encounterd way more still working systems than not. My childhood Genesis model 2 is still working just fine. Heck, there's still plenty of late 70's and early 80's arcade machines that are still chugging along. Did you bother to even troubleshoot your dead SNES? Alot of times it could be as simple as needing new capacitors which only cost a few bucks, or a solder pad needs reflowing, or maybe even the plastic power port finally gave up the ghost.

Folks are working on standalone HDMI mods for certain systems and you wouldn't need a Framemeister for them. The NES HDMI unit is out, and there's currently one in development for the N64. There will probably be one for the SNES at some point, but getting a system with these installed is about what you'd spend on the price of a framemeister and at that point you could use it for other systems.

As far as new hardware I don't think Nintendo will officially produce a new SNES. Even if they do it wouldn't be using decades old chip dies. If it's hardware based would most likely be a FPGA based unit which would essentially just make it another official "clone" system like the 1Chip units were.
I'm not an electrician and my soldering skills are non-existent.


I was told (after paying of course) that the common fuse issue was not the problem with my SNES and the best guess was the board. Who knows. I wasn't about to drop a load of money on something that was 20+ years old. What I CAN tell you is that I babied that thing. Seriously I got complements on it's condition-- it's barely yellowed! So I hear you but I'm not inclined to buy used hardware as I would wager that whatever I buy is likely to have not been treated nearly as well as my old dead SNES. If I knew someone who could guarantee my SNES be fixed for a reasonable price and not fill it full of hot glue like some of these nightmare mod stories I've seen around the web I'd consider it.


As for the NT, sure it's overpriced but so is a Shinola. You buy the NT as a luxury item and as such it comes pre-equipped with everything you need to have an authentic experience. I think it's pretty cool! And to be clear I would use a clone-- I even bought several to try them out. The issue with clones is the quality control is so piss poor it's unbelievable. I had THREE retro trios and not one of the things worked properly. Each had a seperate issue that was a deal breaker. One had noise on the S-video, the other had pristine video but terrible audio, the last had perfect picture and sound but the controller ports stopped working. Love the idea but the execution is just awful.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #35 of 48 Old 11-18-2015, 09:41 AM
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I'm not an electrician and my soldering skills are non-existent.


I was told (after paying of course) that the common fuse issue was not the problem with my SNES and the best guess was the board. Who knows. I wasn't about to drop a load of money on something that was 20+ years old. What I CAN tell you is that I babied that thing. Seriously I got complements on it's condition-- it's barely yellowed! So I hear you but I'm not inclined to buy used hardware as I would wager that whatever I buy is likely to have not been treated nearly as well as my old dead SNES. If I knew someone who could guarantee my SNES be fixed for a reasonable price and not fill it full of hot glue like some of these nightmare mod stories I've seen around the web I'd consider it.


As for the NT, sure it's overpriced but so is a Shinola. You buy the NT as a luxury item and as such it comes pre-equipped with everything you need to have an authentic experience. I think it's pretty cool! And to be clear I would use a clone-- I even bought several to try them out. The issue with clones is the quality control is so piss poor it's unbelievable. I had THREE retro trios and not one of the things worked properly. Each had a seperate issue that was a deal breaker. One had noise on the S-video, the other had pristine video but terrible audio, the last had perfect picture and sound but the controller ports stopped working. Love the idea but the execution is just awful.
It's not really authentic though. Nintendo never had a console that looked like that. I see it as authentic as plugging USB nintendo pads into a small sleek PC. (and that would cost WAY less) Plus, I've read the housing can carve up your carts. Aluminum vs plastic, the metal's going to win.

SNES units are fairly cheap though. With the amount of money you'd spend having someone else fix it you might as well just buy another working unit. Just find the cheapest yellowed grody but still working under $50 SNES deck you can and just put its innards inside your busted one's shell.
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post #36 of 48 Old 11-18-2015, 10:29 AM
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That's not a bad idea. Not sure where I'd find a working SNES for less than $50 though-- most prices I've seen have been $100 or more! In the end, higan looks so good on my HDTV and the iBuffalo controllers feel so near perfect that it's just made me complacent.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

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post #37 of 48 Old 11-18-2015, 12:13 PM
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That's not a bad idea. Not sure where I'd find a working SNES for less than $50 though-- most prices I've seen have been $100 or more! In the end, higan looks so good on my HDTV and the iBuffalo controllers feel so near perfect that it's just made me complacent.
As long as your AC/DC adapter still works (I'd check with a multimeter) and you still have the AV hookups.. consoles start around 40 bucks for the deck only. Just check the description

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...7877276&sr=8-1

Never bought from these guys but it looks like they have a few physical brick and mortar locations around ND. They have consoles only for 40 as well, accessories included starting at 60.

http://www.rock30games.com/Item--i-315000749LH
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post #38 of 48 Old 11-22-2015, 05:39 PM
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For those that were reading this thread, if anybody likes retrogaming podcasts, I just started up a new podcast:

RetroBlast: A 90's gaming RetroSpective


I made a post about it here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/94-hom...g-podcast.html


but I know a lot of people never check that forum
Anthony, when I try your link I get a "Sorry, we can't find that track" message; be sure to let us know when the link is fixed. Looking forward to giving it a listen.
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post #39 of 48 Old 11-23-2015, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Anthony, when I try your link I get a "Sorry, we can't find that track" message; be sure to let us know when the link is fixed. Looking forward to giving it a listen.
Oops! I changed it in my other thread, but forgot to fix the link in this thread.

You can get the podcast on iTunes here:

RetroBlast iTunes link

or click the link in my sig to go to my soundcloud page.

(it's probably best to start with Episode 1, instead of just going to the most current one)
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post #40 of 48 Old 11-30-2015, 01:14 PM
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For anyone looking for decent aftermarket controllers, the Cirka S91 "premium" is pretty much an exact replica of the original SNES pad. The majority of the cheap 3rd party controllers out there are actually based on the SNES mini pad (the controller that came out with the console redesign in 97) , the one that had "start" and "select" actually molded into the plastic as opposed to the original which had the letters ink screened on.

The biggest differences is the build quality. The 3rd party controllers based on the mini pad have plastic tabs for the shoulder button hinge. The Cirka s91 and the original both use a metal pin that passes through. The molds and pcb supports are also different. The button membranes in the Cirka pad are 99% identical to the ones in the original snes controller. I actually swapped them out and they fit perfectly in the Nintendo pad, made it feel like a new controller.

In the photo on the Left: Original Nintendo controller circa '92, Middle: Cirka S91, Right: TTX mini pad clone
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post #41 of 48 Old 02-08-2016, 01:06 PM
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Recently purchased a Model 1 Genesis "High Definition Graphics" console and a SNES Mini to get into some retro gaming and I'm either going to go with the xRGB mini with RGB scart connectors, or with HD Retrovision cables if a new production run is available before summer.

Here's their website. >>>> http://www.hdretrovision.com/

They should start a production run later this year once all their Kickstarter backer rewards have been fulfilled.


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post #42 of 48 Old 02-09-2016, 05:02 PM
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Recently purchased a Model 1 Genesis "High Definition Graphics" console and a SNES Mini to get into some retro gaming and I'm either going to go with the xRGB mini with RGB scart connectors, or with HD Retrovision cables if a new production run is available before summer.

Here's their website. >>>> http://www.hdretrovision.com/

They should start a production run later this year once all their Kickstarter backer rewards have been fulfilled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L56i383PuoU
If you're serious about using your new Genesis and a SNES on an HDTV, I'd get the xrgb mini. The HD retrovision cables while nice, are not an upscaling solution. You're still at the mercy of how your TV handles 240P over component. They're just converting RGB over to component, which you don't need to wait for if you wanted to do that now. Essentially a RGB scart cable + a CSY2100 (or any SCART to Component box) = The HD retro vision cables. They're really ideal for late model CRT sets that have component inputs. Another plus with the mini is you can do the scanline thing if you choose, and also crop out the Genesis overscan. You won't be able to do that with the component cables. See my thread here if you haven't already:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/94-hom...your-hdtv.html


You'll need to mod your SNES mini for RGB if you haven't done so already. Either using the separate RGB amp or not, either way it's a very simple mod to do.
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post #43 of 48 Old 02-09-2016, 08:20 PM
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If you're serious about using your new Genesis and a SNES on an HDTV, I'd get the xrgb mini. The HD retrovision cables while nice, are not an upscaling solution. You're still at the mercy of how your TV handles 240P over component. They're just converting RGB over to component, which you don't need to wait for if you wanted to do that now. Essentially a RGB scart cable + a CSY2100 (or any SCART to Component box) = The HD retro vision cables. They're really ideal for late model CRT sets that have component inputs. Another plus with the mini is you can do the scanline thing if you choose, and also crop out the Genesis overscan. You won't be able to do that with the component cables. See my thread here if you haven't already:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/94-hom...your-hdtv.html


You'll need to mod your SNES mini for RGB if you haven't done so already. Either using the separate RGB amp or not, either way it's a very simple mod to do.
I have a Sony WEGA CRT with component inputs which is what I'd use the Retrovision cables with.

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post #44 of 48 Old 02-10-2016, 12:37 PM
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I have a Sony WEGA CRT with component inputs which is what I'd use the Retrovision cables with.
Ok, as long as it's an SDTV you should be good. If it's and EDTV or HDTV, they can still have issues since it's a digital. You'll still need to do the RGB mod on the snes mini for those cables to work.
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post #45 of 48 Old 02-10-2016, 12:43 PM
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Ok, as long as it's an SDTV you should be good. If it's and EDTV or HDTV, they can still have issues since it's a digital. You'll still need to do the RGB mod on the snes mini for those cables to work.
Yeah it's an SDTV. The SNES Mini has been modded as well.

If the release schedule for the Retrovision cables gets pushed to the end of the year or next year I'll probably get the xRGB mini and play the old consoles on my projector. Would get a SCART switch like this one >>> https://squareup.com/market/retrorgb...sw-v-pre-order

Which would leave room for other retro consoles I might get later on down the line.

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post #46 of 48 Old 02-10-2016, 03:12 PM
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Yeah it's an SDTV. The SNES Mini has been modded as well.

If the release schedule for the Retrovision cables gets pushed to the end of the year or next year I'll probably get the xRGB mini and play the old consoles on my projector. Would get a SCART switch like this one >>> https://squareup.com/market/retrorgb...sw-v-pre-order

Which would leave room for other retro consoles I might get later on down the line.
You could always just grab this guy and scart cables. Instead of waiting on the hd retrovision. There's internal color pots to dial in if you need to. And if you choose to grab the mini later on, you'll already have the scart leads.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SCART-RG...-/221156873851

You'll just want a SNES cable that has an audio RCA breakout. For your Genesis, you can just use the headphone jack.
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post #47 of 48 Old 04-23-2016, 10:41 PM
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I have 7 retro consoles plugged up to a scaler/switcher that outputs 1080p from Key Digital that I found on Ebay. I have the SNES hooked up via S-Video and it looks really good. Obviously, it's not going to look quite as good as HD gaming, but I'm really happy with how it looks. Lots of other people have posted about using DVDO or Lumagen products, but I found my Key Digital unit at a fantastic price, so I jumped on it and am really happy with the results.
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post #48 of 48 Old 08-06-2016, 07:28 PM
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I use an old CRT tv. It just makes it alot easier.
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