Introducing the Nintendo Switch (NX revealed) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 326 Old 10-20-2016, 07:54 PM
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You must have a big family.
All the stuff you say doesn't need confirmation actually does because first of all online gaming on the WiiU is terrible. There's no online system like PSN or XBL where everything is centralized and you can communicate and setup games with friends easily. Also some people don't want physical game media at all so being able to download all the games digitally to a large memory card or some type of storage would be preferred for them. Your response about not wanting to huddle around the small screen with friends by saying "the dock has HDMI" is laughable. That's not at all what the point of that comment was and you know it. The usage Nintendo is suggesting(playing in the car etc) is just not going to work in the real world. The controllers are too small and the screen is too small for split screen gaming.

You seem to be glossing over some very real questions and issues with this device based on what we know right now for whatever reason. These concerns are valid and if I'm being honest I think Nintendo isn't even trying anymore when it comes to catering to the home gaming market.
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post #32 of 326 Old 10-20-2016, 07:55 PM
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I read today that it doesn't at all

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/10/...ional-features
(with regards to additional processing power when docked)

While this may be true, nothing in that article says that it doesn't. I mean, looking closer at the images, the portable itself has a fan vent. Could easily be underclocked while portable and default clocks when powered, for example.

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If they're affordable and offer enough capacity, this is a win.

Potentially gone are things like game installations, so if Nintendo did this right, we only win.
Couldn't disagree with you more on this. Whether they're going the proprietary blank storage route a la Sony (not that I expect this one because 3DS used SD/microSD), or whether each game is distributed on its own game card like every Nintendo portable system to date, either way it's a step backwards.

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post #33 of 326 Old 10-20-2016, 07:59 PM
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(with regards to additional processing power when docked)

While this may be true, nothing in that article says that it doesn't. I mean, looking closer at the images, the portable itself has a fan vent. Could easily be underclocked while portable and default clocks when powered, for example.



Couldn't disagree with you more on this. Whether they're going the proprietary blank storage route a la Sony (not that I expect this one because 3DS used SD/microSD), or whether each game is distributed on its own game card like every Nintendo portable system to date, either way it's a step backwards.
A lot of people just don't want to switch physical game media anymore. They would rather install all the games they are playing or plan to play and switch on the fly without swapping cards, potentially losing them etc. As for the increased clock speeds I swear I noticed some frame rate drop when they pulled it from the dock. Maybe it was just me. Personally I'm never going to buy this. I don't play portable games and when I had a 3DS and Vita I played them at home and never took them out. Now I'm strictly a TV gamer, even my PC is on my TV now. This doesn't have enough horsepower for what I want in a game system these days and one Zelda and Mario game isn't going to cut it. I've been burned by Nintendo on that before. Heck they won't even give the fans the game they've been asking for for what seems like 10 years, Metroid. So I kind of think Nintendo just doesn't care.

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post #34 of 326 Old 10-20-2016, 08:28 PM
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A lot of people just don't want to switch physical game media anymore. They would rather install all the games they are playing or plan to play and switch on the fly without swapping cards, potentially losing them etc.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Game cards, no matter how they're implemented, are a step back.

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post #35 of 326 Old 10-20-2016, 08:33 PM
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All the stuff you say doesn't need confirmation actually does because first of all online gaming on the WiiU is terrible. There's no online system like PSN or XBL where everything is centralized and you can communicate and setup games with friends easily.
Sorry, but while primitive, it's still present and it works surprisingly well. And Nintendo has heavily emphasized digital distribution on this system as well.

Hardly see just cause for questioning if digital distribution will even be an option on the Switch. It has been a facet of Nintendo consoles and handhelds for two generations now.

May as well worry over if this will even output in HD or be limited to 480i, since I'm afraid it's just about as relevant of a concern in 2016...

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Your response about not wanting to huddle around the small screen with friends by saying "the dock has HDMI" is laughable. That's not at all what the point of that comment was and you know it.
Hardly, the criticism was that people aren't going to want to prop this up to partake in multiplayer gaming.

I agree and it won't be something I'll be partaking it, but why the criticism over the option? As I said, this is fully usable with your HDTV where people typically partake in local multiplayer (Not to mention that we see two systems presumably connected for wireless local multiplayer at one point).

That was the point which completely went over your head. Don't want to enjoy multiplayer in that particular manner? Fine, but a traditional way that might be more to your liking is right there that allows you and your friends and family to gather around the living room tv.

That's the glory of the Switch for the Nintendo fan. No more limitations that were inherit in a separate handheld and console line.

The challenge is to minimize the new limitations, but I felt like they have a good start there.

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Couldn't disagree with you more on this. Whether they're going the proprietary blank storage route a la Sony (not that I expect this one because 3DS used SD/microSD), or whether each game is distributed on its own game card like every Nintendo portable system to date, either way it's a step backwards.
They're surely going to sell cartridges at retail loaded with the game you're buying.

Physical media has three important considerations. Capacity, speed, and cost. So until we get further details, it's premature I feel to criticize or praise this move.

On the bright side, these will be more power efficient than attempting to shoehorn optical media into a handheld form factor like Sony once did. And they should be more durable than optical media and lead to a cheaper system than one with an optical drive.

So as long as the transfer speeds are there to support games like Skyrim, the media is affordable (Flash media has drastically declined in price in recent years, erasing most of the traditional price advantage of optical), and it offers capacity to meet modern game development needs, it doesn't have to represent a negative issue.

Hopefully we're not looking at another Nintendo 64 and a $20 premium while the competition is making CD's that cost a few pennies.

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A lot of people just don't want to switch physical game media anymore.
And that's what digital distribution is for.

Has been there on the Wii, it has been there on the DSi, it has been there on the Wii U, it has been there on the 3DS/New 3DS, and it surely will be on the Switch.

You haven't given a single reason why any of us should reasonably expect that Nintendo might regress 15 years here for a feature that not only is standard outside of Nintendo, but is standard at Nintendo as well.

Nintendo has only been increasingly pushing digital distribution on the Wii U. So much so in fact that for people that don't just pay attention to Nintendo for a few weeks every 5 years or so, many were worried that the NX would be an all-digital platform and leave physical media behind completely.

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post #36 of 326 Old 10-20-2016, 09:34 PM
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I see assumptions and supporting reasons, but no proof of anything I asked in my first post in this thread. So yes, legit questions on my part.

We get it, Leo. The Switch was built for people like you who will blindly buy it. OMG NINTENDO.

The rest of us have higher expectations and also want to know more about the Switch. I research the hell out of any gaming system I'm considering purchasing. Don't have an answer? Move along then.

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post #37 of 326 Old 10-20-2016, 10:30 PM
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I'm blind?

Nintendo could be putting a million dollars inside of each unit sold, and people would be coming out of the woodwork that have never visited this sub-forum to criticize it.

And again, there's no reason in 2016 to worry that digital distribution will not be part of the equation. I don't need proof of that any more than I need proof that its shell will be manufactured with plastic.

It's that much of a given and only those dead set on the belief that everything Nintendo does is just bound to be a mistake would ever suggest otherwise.

Want proof? How about this.

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I really liked what I saw and think Nintendo has a winner.
There's a sucker born every minute...

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You came in here with the preconceived notions and posted such a response just because someone has enjoyed their experiences with Nintendo handheld and console hardware and liked what they saw today.

Yet it's now you that has the open mind and is the one viewing this objectively, just because you've deemed it impossible for anyone else to hold a differing view and actually like what they saw out of this 3 minute trailer?

Tapatalk that and blow it out your ear. I'm not the one saying that anyone that hasn't had such pleasant experiences with Nintendo hardware is wrong to be skeptical about this.

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post #38 of 326 Old 10-20-2016, 10:47 PM
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You're also a huge Wii U fan. No surprise you settle for mediocrity.

What's your deal with tapatalk? You can use it on your phone and tablet. Nintendo didn't invent it though, so it's probably not for you.

I asked legit questions. You responded negatively. If you don't have actual answers, just leave it be. It's a new console that was just announced. You know as much as the rest of us. I even said I'd purchase it if has a decent amount of co-op games. What's your deal?

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post #39 of 326 Old 10-20-2016, 11:01 PM
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You're also a huge Wii U fan. No surprise you settle for mediocrity.
Because I enjoyed it.

For all of Nintendo's failings, they're still very good when it comes to their internal software development and franchises like Zelda.

It's outside the software development offices where Nintendo fails in modern times, in my opinion. Hardware development, a poor DRM system, misguided marketing, a focus on unnecessary gimmicks in the hope that one catches and leads to a sales hit, poor support for 3rd parties, mismanagement in their foreign subsidiaries like Nintendo of America, etc.

But when it comes down to games like Super Mario 3D World, I still have a lot of fun and frankly think that when Nintendo is at the top of their game in this area such as with that offering, they're unrivaled.

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What's your deal with tapatalk?
I don't have anything against it and frankly don't know much about it, but you made me mad.

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I asked legit questions. You responded negatively. If you don't have actual answers, just leave it be.
I think you need to reread my responses to you, since nothing approaches the negatively that I was responded back with or warranted you ramping it up a notch later on when I responded in-kind.

I expressed confidence that two features were so basic that we could all but take it for granted that they're present without being told so. I just can't understand the concern in 2016 that online play and such will not be a factor.

Nintendo went online pretty much when everyone else did. Why worry in this area that they'll be taking a step backwards in 2016 after several generations with online multiplayer and digital game distribution?

Doesn't make any sense to doubt for a moment that this has online capabilities, so it's the last I'll say on the matter. That merit-less concern doesn't warrant being discussed any further.

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post #40 of 326 Old 10-21-2016, 06:05 AM
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Famistu asked about backwards compatibility and what would be contained in the box at launch.

No support for 3DS cartridges or Wii U discs, but theoretically, that doesn't rule out digital compatibility I suppose (though I don't see anyone really expecting to see that happen).

As for the contents, it will include the console along with the Joy Con and its detachable controllers. No mention of the dock was specifically made, but note that they didn't say that the Pro Controller is included.

When it's not necessary, you can pretty much count on it being sold separately. And despite differing opinions about its worth before any of us have even had the chance to hold one in our hands, the trailer clearly demonstrates that the system can be used in console mode without a Pro Controller connected.

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post #41 of 326 Old 10-21-2016, 07:02 AM
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I don't see how anyone thinks this would be more than 249
Either way this will be the second Nintendo console I don't purchase. I loved Nintendo consoles until the WiiU. And it seems the terrible trend is going to continue.

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post #42 of 326 Old 10-21-2016, 07:45 AM
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Either way this will be the second Nintendo console I don't purchase. I loved Nintendo consoles until the WiiU. And it seems the terrible trend is going to continue.
This looks like it was born right out of the board room at Nintendo that wanted to kill 2 birds with 1 stone and get away from manufacturing multiple hardware. I am reading on Neogaf and the rumor is that mobile battery life last only about 3 hours . Next the accessory will be a power pack like the original cell phone.

My opinion is Nintendo needs go beyond bringing Mario to IOS and just focus getting their games on out on other platforms. I believe
that is their next step.

The 5.0 is here

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post #43 of 326 Old 10-21-2016, 08:18 AM
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I'm honestly surprised the general reception is so negative. Like I said, I think the concept is a little too late to change Nintendo's prospects too much, and I think third-parties are going to continue to be an issue (it's far too different to optimize and develop for so I expect scaled-up mobile/3DS games as opposed to scaled-down PS4/XBox One games). But I do think it's a good concept (probably what Wii U should have been, but the technology wasn't ready).

I'll be buying one for Zelda and Mario, but overall it wouldn't be Nintendo if they didn't make some WTF decisions. (And if that 3 hours battery life is true, that's very disappointing - I think 5 should be the bare minimum for a portable).

I had a Wii, own every variant of DS and 3DS except for the DSi, but skipped Wii U. This appeals to me far more than Wii U ever did, any potential flaws aside.

I do think digital downloads are going to be problematic on this console though. Because it's a portable pretty much rules out an internal hard drive, but 32GB or even 64GB would be nothing for current 1080p AAA games. Hell, even my 3DS I've got 128GB of storage filled, and that's games that are for a 800x240 resolution screen. I wonder if part of the plan is that you would connect an external hard drive to the dock and cycle games in and out of the portable's storage to manage that.

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post #44 of 326 Old 10-21-2016, 08:26 AM
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if the development for it is too complex compared to PS & XBox it will be hard for Nintendo to get sustained 3rd party game support and that will hurt them.

The glory here though is that it will be less important than it ever was in the past.

The lack of 3rd party support hurt their systems so much in recent years because there were long droughts between the 1st party releases that dominated these systems.

But no longer will Nintendo's own development resources be split between two dedicated devices. Now they'll be developing for a single platform so these gaps where healthy 3rd party support would mask, will be fewer and shorter than in the recent past.

So even if it's again lackluster in this area, there will at least hopefully be no shortage of worthwhile games for a change.
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For all of Nintendo's failings, they're still very good when it comes to their internal software development and franchises like Zelda.

It's outside the software development offices where Nintendo fails in modern times, in my opinion. Hardware development, a poor DRM system, misguided marketing, a focus on unnecessary gimmicks in the hope that one catches and leads to a sales hit, poor support for 3rd parties, mismanagement in their foreign subsidiaries like Nintendo of America, etc.

But when it comes down to games like Super Mario 3D World, I still have a lot of fun and frankly think that when Nintendo is at the top of their game in this area such as with that offering, they're unrivaled.
You make a really good point about the split development efforts. That could definitely help, though I think in the past they seem to try and reuse a lot of the effort even between the 3DS and the Wii/Wii U, though there still would have been more overhead for that than there will be with the new system.

We both agree that Nintendo has some fantastic 1st party offerings, but I don't know that those are enough to carry a console unless they are getting some decent third party support. Depending on cost at least. It would be hard to sell someone on a $500 system to play Mario, if Nintendo can keep the price down though then it could be more feasible.
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post #45 of 326 Old 10-21-2016, 08:30 AM
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Depending on cost at least. It would be hard to sell someone on a $500 system to play Mario, if Nintendo can keep the price down though then it could be more feasible.
I would say there's little chance of it even approaching $400, let alone $500. The Nvidia Shield tablet (which has similar guts - just an older generation) was $199. I'd say the Switch, dock, and Joy-Con end up being $249, with a $299 bundle that includes a Pro controller. Maybe $299 and $349 but even that sounds like a stretch to me.

Edit: I have to take that all back. At launch, apparently the Shield was $299.

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post #46 of 326 Old 10-21-2016, 08:54 AM
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The glory here though is that it will be less important than it ever was in the past.

The lack of 3rd party support hurt their systems so much in recent years because there were long droughts between the 1st party releases that dominated these systems.
I completely disagree with you here. I don't care how may Mario games they release, it will never be enough to make up for the lack of 3rd party games, if that trend continues.

If the Switch is more difficult to develop games on or vastly different then PS4/XB1/PC, that will drive up cost for ports and will cause developers to think twice about taking the plunge. Not everyone wants to have 2, 3 or 4 consoles under their TV and there are 20 million+ COD players that may never consider the Switch if they can't play COD on the thing. That's just the way it goes and the Wii U proved this time and time again.

1st party drought is not the reason the lack of 3rd party hurt so much. The lack of COD, GTA, Battlefield, Madden, FIFA, etc. is what killed that console. If those type of games never show up on the Switch then it will have the same fate as the Wii U.

I think the difference in architecture is going to be a big mistake for Nintendo. They should have gone with x86 like everyone else, so ports would be cheaper and easier.



I don't want to have to carry a bunch of cartridges with me everywhere I go so, if digital distribution is going to be a focus then the unconfirmed specs saying it only has 32GB of built in storage better be false. That's a joke in 2016. Don't tell me I can add an SD card, you shouldn't force your customers to have to add storage right out of the box. I can buy a 256GB USB 3.0 drive for $70 on NewEgg, I'm sure Nintendo could get an even better deal on the 256GB chips, do your customers a favor and buy some. My phone has 128GB built in so come on Nintendo, don't skimp on storage.

If digital distribution is not a focus, then I'll have to carry a bunch of cartridges around, which means I'll just stick with my phone as my mobile gaming device and my PS4 as my TV gaming device.


Look, I think the concept is very interesting but, it's got to have the games that interest me, beyond the occasional Mario game. RDR, GTA, SW Battlefront, The Golf Club, Mass Effect etc. They got Skyrim so check that one off, just have to wait and see if enough of the others show up to make it a worth-whiled purchase. I dream of the day when I can just continue playing RDR on the tablet when the wife wants to hog the TV.

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post #47 of 326 Old 10-22-2016, 06:05 AM
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Despite the rise of the smartphone decimating their business from just a generation before and eliminating most of their traditional 3rd party support, Nintendo still has managed 60 million 3DS systems sold. That's largely been on the strength of their own releases for the system and with long gaps in-between said releases.

So I don't think it's incorrect to suggest that combining their console and handheld efforts to a unified platform which should see a significant increase in 1st/2nd party content over what the 3DS alone enjoyed, will go a long ways towards making up for failings in this area. Nintendo already is making a go of it here, almost all alone and despite splitting their resources with the Wii U.

And I think if you're hoping or mandating that this see widespread 3rd party support from major publishers and ports of AAA titles like the latest Call of Duty each year, you're not going to be pleased.

Even as a huge Nintendo fan, that seems so far out of reach at this stage of the game that I'm not even hoping to see major change there. I've long since resigned myself to the fact that enjoying non-Nintendo games are what my PC, Microsoft, and Sony systems are for.

Switch if it succeeds will be based on the merits of its 1st/2nd party lineup. If Nintendo's core franchises aren't enough, I think you can safely dismiss this even before it has launched, if you haven't already.
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post #48 of 326 Old 10-23-2016, 07:07 PM
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A lot of negativity here. Stark contrast since I've been immersed in the /r/NintendoSwitch subreddit for the last two days (finally pushed me to make a reddit account just for this).

I've been excited since the first peep of the name NX, because the Wii U just completely dissappointed me and I was ready for a "redo" since Wii U launched. And the reveal trailer exceeded my already lofty expectations. I skipped the Wii U entirely, despite being a Nintendo devotee since NES, but I'll be preordering the Switch (full disclosure, I would have bought a Wii U if they had put out the new Zelda. I'm kinda glad they held Breath of the Wild for the Switch launch, I'd hate to have just bought a Wii U last year then this comes out). The Switch is what the Wii U should have been, but I think maybe the tech wasn't there yet, at least not at a reasonable price. I think the Wii U was just a series of compromises that Nintendo couldn't seem to avoid but hoped would sell anyway, but it didn't.

I've not bought a handheld since my OG Gameboy, mostly because I could never justify the cost, 90% of my gaming will always be at home. I've missed out on a lot of great Nintendo handheld games and I'm hoping the Switch will have some of those in the Virtual Console. I'm totally fine with having a console that I can take on the go once a week or so.
This is obviously a console first, but can serve full self contained portability when desired, or the flexibility to be full time portable if desired, just whatever the user wants. You can't say it won't sell because its not as portable. I see kids with full iPads in restaurants and at church and such all the time. Far more than kids with DS's.

A lot of people think its lacking touchscreen or other things because the trailer did not show it. The trailer was laser focused on purpose, the Wii U had a really bad marketing problem in that most average people never understood what it was, many thinking it was a peripheral like Wii Fit for the Wii and not a new console. They have seriously thought out the marketing and have a marketing plan to avoid that issue. This first trailer was laser focused on gaming and the core "Switch" concept of home and portable, lack of anything in this trailer is not an indication of lack in the product, just that other details will come later. I will eat my shoe if this doesn't have a capacitive touchscreen.

I have an Nvidia Shield, and the top Android games look REALLY really good on it. I fully expect this next gen Tegra custom chipset in the Switch to nearly equal PS4/XB1 when docked. (Its confirmed that the dock only adds power and tv output. The prevailing theory is that the Switch runs native 720p and possibly underclocked when in portable mode to conserve battery, but clocks up and outputs full 1080p when connected to power and tv output in the dock).

I feel a real change for Nintendo with the Switch. Heck, I think the name may apply to the entire company approach, they are switching strategy. For years, smartphones have been eating into Nintendo handheld sales, and it looks like with Pokemon Go on phones now, and Mario Run coming, that Nintendo has finally realized they can't compete with phones any more than they can compete with the horsepower wars of Sony/MS. So they are taking the middle road. They can't compete with phones, but maybe they can replace the tablet in peoples bags (assuming this thing has some kind of support for Android/Android apps. They will absolutely fail if they try to sell a tablet that doesn't do what people expect a tablet to do).
The design is different, gone are the super kid friendly curves of the Wii U Gamepad and the cutesy colors of the DS. This is a grownup console. Sure, kids will play it, but so will I and my thirty-something friends.
The name is different. "Wii" was ridiculous, but it grew on you. "Wii U" was just stupid though, purely marketing BS to try to capitalize on the Wii's previous sales. "Switch" is perfect, it embodies everything it should.
The marketing is an obvious departure. No E3 reveal. A three minute trailer laser focused on the base concept of gaming, with rumors of possibly no more info until January. No tech specs. The video itself was a huge departure from any previous Nintendo marketing.
Using Tegra, even a customized version, is a huge departure for Nintendo in my opinion. And there is strong evidence to suggest the main port on the bottom for docking is industry standard USB-C for fast charging/video/data (rumored USB 3.0 port on the dock). If USB-C is confirmed, that too will be a huge switch for Nintendo, and absolute proof of the new direction they are headed.
They are going to have to support Android Apps, even if its a cultivated selection. There's just no other way. This too will show the new Nintendo.
No backwards compatibility at all, a clean break from the past. I think this was both necessary technically and also spiritually. This is a new direction for Nintendo. They will certainly have older games available in the Virtual Console, but no backwards compatibility is something none of the big three (Nintendo, Sony, MS) have done in 15 years.

Other observations/thoughts:
I'm glad for cartridges. I hated discs, always. I had the N64 and laughed at the pitiful graphics and load times of my friends Playstation. I hated load screens on the Wii, plus the disc drive sounded like a Mack truck. Carts and games downloaded to microSD (fairly certain of this feature) will have no load times and just run better than discs or even hard drives. 128 and 256 gb microsd is both affordable and super fast now.

It's not fully official, but almost certain based on sources who were right about other leaked details: there is motion/gyro in the Joycons. I was concerned that they might drop this, as 1:1 sword swinging in Zelda Skyward sword is the best thing I ever experienced in gaming, ever (even if the game itself was low on my list of Zelda games. Not terrible, but had a lot of flaws). At the same time, I think there will be a new focus on CHOICE. Other than games like Mario Party, Just Dance, or others that basically are built around motion control, I think most games will now offer the choice, gamepad or motion control, it's all but confirmed that Zelda will have this choice.

They have confirmed it is not compatible with 3DS cartridges. Obviously there is no disc drive, so no GC, Wii, Wii U games directly. I feel it should be possible to emulate 3DS and have those games on Virtual console. And I think they will work fine on the Switch screen, in a split screen mode. Wii U games are another issue, almost certainly they cannot be emulated on the Nvidia Tegra and would need to be ported. They would also have to be reworked so as not to use the two screen mode because Nintendo has confirmed there will be no two screen mode like the Wii U and Wii U Gamepad. I think we will not see any Wii U ports in 2017, but if the Switch sells well through Christmas 2017, we may see ports of the most popular Wii U games in 2018. Those games did not sell well due to the low base of Wii U owners and some deserve a second chance, porting could help recoup more money spent developing those games. Possibly Wii games may be emulated, though I'm not sure I'd rebuy any (I do want the Twilight Princess HD remake from the Wii U though). I really hope they can emulate handhelds up to 3ds, there are several games I'd love to play like Link between Worlds, some mario games I've missed, some pokemon games, others.
The thought of Zelda Breath of the Wild, a true HD Zelda game, in glorious 1080p on my 106" projector screen makes me drool. I loved Twilight Princess, but I had a 37" 1080p lcd when Wii came out and the jaggies about drove me nuts, Skyward Sword was only a little better. The Wii was not much better on my 50" plasma. I'd never even dare try the Wii on my pj.

The Shield TV supports 4k video, I expect the Switch will do 4k menus and Netflix (w HDR) and other streaming apps when docked. If the docking port is USB-C as widely believed, this should work fine. Games I think will run 1080p when docked but possibly support WCG and HDR. I think there's a 50% chance the dock has a scaler specifically designed to scale the 1080p game output to 4k for 4k tv's, such a scaler would not need to be in the tablet itself and might best fit in the dock (which would save a couple bucks on the base retail Switch that does not come bundled with the dock)

Although Nintendo currently states there will be a 3DS successor, I think thats just hedging their bets. If the Switch succeeds, there will be no "4DS" or whatever. They will cede the small handheld gaming to smartphones, and produce games for smartphones that work on touch input only. However, I feel they will have "mobile only" games in 2018 if the Switch succeeds, games that require touchscreen and thus could not work with the dock. Exception to this: its possible the dock may have wifi direct, and thus may allow "casting" of the Switch screen to the dock for output to tv. If it does, they will not enable this feature until they are sure there is no confusion that the Switch is not the Wii U all over again. I still don't think they will have separate two screen play ever again, I just mean the option to mirror cast while holding and using the touchscreen. (actually since the Switch tablet will have wifi, it won't have to be in the dock, they could just enable casting to any Google Cast device or even standard Mirracast.)

Using Tegra means much easier development, it should be very similar to Android development, and can entice developers because they can easily port to the Shield Store or Play Store. Plus, if this takes over for 3DS, all the 3DS developers will come to Switch, thus increasing Switch's library and decreasing the effort of splitting both Nintendo and 3rd party development between two platforms. (I think DS/3DS uses arm, so porting from 3DS to Switch should also be easier, if emulation is not possible). This may actually be Switch's biggest advantage. If it takes off, it unifies Nintendo (aside from mobile phone games), and I think that will strengthen the entire ecosystem.

my guess on price:
$250 for Switch plus HDMI cable and Charging cable
$300 for Switch plus dock and Grip (the holder that turns the separate "JoyCon" side controllers into a single controller. theory: the Grip has a large empty center portion, perfect for scanning Amiibo's)
$350 for Switch plus dock and Grip plus Game (probably Zelda)

I am more excited about gaming than I have been since the Wii launched.
I just hope it pays off, because I also believe if this doesn't work, if the Switch doesn't take off, Nintendo will have to cede that they will remain a distant 3rd, settling for middling sales and the 3rd party devs will disappear for good. I don't think they'll be able to recover to anything more than distant last place. And I don't even know what they will do from there. I never want to see Mario on an Xbox. I still can't get used to Sonic on Nintendo consoles, even 20 years later.
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post #49 of 326 Old 10-23-2016, 08:00 PM
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Good post, but a few minor nitpicks.

Playstation 4 actually lacked backwards compatibility, so there's one from one of the big three since the Gamecube that did lack backwards compatibility of any kind (Not to mention various Nintendo handheld and console revisions that dropped BC mid-gen).

And we will all but certainly see Wii U ports in 2017. Ignoring Zelda completely despite fully qualifying as a port, two such Wii U to Switch ports were already heavily shown off in just that single initial 3 minute reveal trailer.

And Super Mario Maker and Super Smash Bros. ports have also been in many rumors and would appear as legitimate possibilities next year, although I personally think that Switch will have to wait for Super Mario Maker 2. I just don't feel like Nintendo would be porting this one to the 3DS this Christmas if it was also slated for the Switch in 2017.

And I wouldn't be so sure that we'll see DS or 3DS games here on the Virtual Console, given that the Switch will be a single screen experience. They would work, but I think that they'd be too compromised for Nintendo's taste. But I fully expect NES/SNES/N64 and GB/GBC/GBA releases to appear here at a minimum, which would mark the first time that they were all present on a unified Virtual Console platform.

And I don't think that they said that there would be an independent 3DS successor, did they? Just that they have plans for the 3DS for the next several years. And even there, I don't think that's actually confirmed. I think it came from the keyboard of Emily Rogers and even if accurate, I really wouldn't expect to see much happening here after this Christmas.

Except for a very basic level of support like shovelware and Selects rereleases, 3DS will quickly be forgotten next year by most customers. Heck, if they were serious, why the winding down that has been clearly underway for a long time?

First they all but ignored the 3DS as they attempted in vain to make something out of the Wii U. And more recently, they've clearly been focused on Switch development for quite some time now.

We've just been getting ports and rather modest looking original releases like this lackluster looking Pikmin platformer that nobody seems excited to see, with 3DS sales statistics in a free fall the past couple of years because of it all.

Pretty peculiar if they actually had big plans for the 3DS over the next several years.

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post #50 of 326 Old 10-24-2016, 09:38 AM
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I hope it's a standardized port (USB-C would be perfect), but who knows. Like mentioned, it'd be a huge break from tradition for them to not go proprietary. But as I have a USB-C PC and phone, the possibility of using the same charger for all three, and more importantly, the same HDMI/USB/power hub to connect any of the three while traveling would be a huge plus.

I doubt you're right about the Android compatibility for apps. There's too much cruft involved in getting those running. The system is already lower powered and they already have to worry about optimizing for battery in addition to gaming, the OS will probably be as lightweight as always. I have no doubt we'll see Netflix and Hulu (honestly doubt 4k and HDR for even apps though), but I think that like always, they'll have to be coded directly for the system.

My guess would be it has a touchscreen just for apps, but I'm not convinced on some of the stuff I've been seeing on Reddit. Maybe the JoyCons are motion controllers, but there's also no visible 'sensor bar' so who knows. I've also seen people claim the JoyCons have shoulder buttons when separate, I'm not convinced that those aren't just the docking rails. Who knows though.

Speaking of the docking rails, I would be very disappointed if they didn't charge the JoyCon controllers too. I know that chances are pretty good that they will (if not also pass data when connected to conserve battery when on the go), but it could really go either way.

But in agreement with both of you, keep in mind that the DS was originally going to be a third system too. Nintendo definitely hedges their bets on these things.

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I'm not convinced by a lot of the new rumors, put me in the camp that says Ninty is holding back a LOT of details - and very purposely in order to avoid any possible confusions with Wii U or 3DS. Touch screen, solid (3+ hour) battery life, some extra upscaling horsepower in the dock, and motion/gyro controls are all on my list of things they'll share when the time is right. And I'm betting on reveal that there's some kind of WiFi capability to play dual screen ala Wii U when near the dock. And $249.99/$299.99 base/bundle.

The video has been combed over by internet sleuths, and shows what looks to be two shoulder buttons (the L1 button looks suspiciously like a scroll wheel to me) on the JoyCons and probably two more on the side. And if it's not a scroll wheel, me that's not an IR port on L1. Wii VC?






The storage space... I don't know, if it's actually a paltry 32GB they absolutely have to include an SD slot like the 3DS; third party games have just gone off the deep end file size, things like Doom with a 19GB patch or NBA 2K at 44GB for the download would be an instant killer for ports. Nintendo has let devs use their internal tools to compress assets on disc that are later uncompressed when playing, maybe that would help some, but not much.

You can have more storage on the dock or even a USB HDD option there, but there would HAVE to be some serious 'fridge cleaning' mechanic that keeps games loaded for you if they truly want all games to be playable either on mobile or docked.

And my big wonder is if they'll sell some kind of Super Gameboy/Gameboy Player add on that allows BC on the dock. It wouldn't take much room for a thin disc drive to provide WiiU BC, even less for 3DS, and you wouldn't have to worry about carrying around extra media formats since they'd be tied to the dock only.


Someone pointed out that the logo is a yin/yang, which is darn clever. And the "switch" name is almost onomatopoeic, which is why they highlight the sound during the logo animation.
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I actually hate the sound effect they used for the logo snapping together in the promo. I know it's such a trivial thing, and I get what they're going for, but it's just a grating sound to me. More of a solid thunk would have worked better I think. It's like Microsoft/Surface's Panos Panay has said, where they wanted to go for a car door closing high end sound. The Switch sound effect is the exact opposite of that to me, cheap and annoying sounding. Oh well. Glad I no longer have TV to have to hear that a million times in a few months.

My guess is 32GB, plus SD or microSD. If it was up to me, I'd also support for a USB disk on the dock... and some sort of library check-in / check-out type metaphor for managing it. No idea how they'll handle it though.

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post #53 of 326 Old 10-24-2016, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post
Good post, but a few minor nitpicks.

Playstation 4 actually lacked backwards compatibility, so there's one from one of the big three since the Gamecube that did lack backwards compatibility of any kind (Not to mention various Nintendo handheld and console revisions that dropped BC mid-gen).

And we will all but certainly see Wii U ports in 2017. Ignoring Zelda completely despite fully qualifying as a port, two such Wii U to Switch ports were already heavily shown off in just that single initial 3 minute reveal trailer.

And Super Mario Maker and Super Smash Bros. ports have also been in many rumors and would appear as legitimate possibilities next year, although I personally think that Switch will have to wait for Super Mario Maker 2. I just don't feel like Nintendo would be porting this one to the 3DS this Christmas if it was also slated for the Switch in 2017.
I had no idea PS4 broke BC, funny the best selling of the current gen and I don't know a single person with one and I know almost zero details about it. I don't own an XB1 but I know plenty about it (I know it has a sort of cultivated/approved BC list of some kind, I think with downloads to make it compatible?).
You are probably right about ports in 2017, I just realized it would probably be easier to get several Wii U ports out before Christmas 2017 than an equal number of completely newly developed games. It's more a question of, will it be a port of Mario Maker with a couple tweaks and they call it Mario Maker 2 or just call it Mario Maker. Same for Splatoon/Splatoon 2 on Switch.

Quote:
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Someone pointed out that the logo is a yin/yang, which is darn clever. And the "switch" name is almost onomatopoeic, which is why they highlight the sound during the logo animation.
I absolutely love the yin/yang when it was pointed out to me. Again, the logo, the name, the sound, the style and content of the video, it all points to Nintendo seriously doing their marketing and design homework this time, it all seems extremely thought out. This will not be another Wii U.
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post #54 of 326 Old 10-24-2016, 07:19 PM
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What's gained by Wii U backwards compatibility?

It didn't sell well, software will dry up quickly at retail, and those that appreciated it still have their original console while those that never touched one while writing it off as trash like we saw earlier in this thread still won't be bothered to try it. Commercial failures don't usually see the succeeding attempt support it via backwards compatibility.

Plus they're already apparently planning on Switch ports of many of its major releases to round out the library and give these underlooked gems a 2nd chance. Between 3DS ports and rumored releases for the Switch, not too many big name Wii U titles would remain exclusive to the hardware like Super Mario 3D World.

I do wonder though if we might get a dedicated console version of this down the road. If this indeed lacks touch screen support and without the limitations that plagued the PSTV, it could be an economical option for the customer that only is interested in a Nintendo console and doesn't care about mobility.

Of course if a touch screen does end up a major part of the experience, scratch that last bit.

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post #55 of 326 Old 10-24-2016, 09:58 PM
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Plus they're already apparently planning on Switch ports of many of its major releases to round out the library and give these underlooked gems a 2nd chance. Between 3DS ports and rumored releases for the Switch, not too many big name Wii U titles would remain exclusive to the hardware like Super Mario 3D World.
Nintendo (and really a lot of the gaming companies right now) need to be careful not to saturate the market with all ports... lots of the ports for WiiU/3DS worked well because they were old enough to have a nostalgia factor. I think now they're porting everything to the new consoles as a way to bridge the lack of BC and to build a library quickly. It works if people haven't played the games on the previous systems but a lot of people are going to start getting annoyed if they keep getting re-sold the same games at $50 each.
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post #56 of 326 Old 10-24-2016, 11:17 PM
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I agree, although I'd add that in the instance of the Switch, I think Nintendo realizes that quality Wii U games like Mario Kart 8 didn't approach meeting their sales potential due to the failings of the system itself.

Unlike something like the Uncharted trilogy for Sony, this is a 2nd chance for that investment to pay off for them and reach an audience in the numbers that a game like that deserved if it had been unhindered by the Wii U's failure to succeed as a platform.

I don't think they'll overdue it on the Switch. The temptation must've been there on the Wii U, but if anything, they didn't do enough such remasterings by leaving titles like Metroid Prime Trilogy and Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 on the table.

Hopefully they restrain themselves rather than drown their lineup in ports during the early stages of its life.
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post #57 of 326 Old 10-25-2016, 03:56 AM
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True, and in the case of Mario Kart, if the port is relatively easy it's likely worth it for them.
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post #58 of 326 Old 10-26-2016, 09:17 AM
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I'm in the middle on the console. I think it's smart of Nintendo to continue to push in to other markets vs what XB1 & PS4 go after. My question is....Wii U price drop? I'd love to have a Super Mario Maker machine..


Also..

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoozen View Post
Someone pointed out that the logo is a yin/yang, which is darn clever. And the "switch" name is almost onomatopoeic, which is why they highlight the sound during the logo animation.
*Googles "onomatopoeic," result = "using or relating to onomatopoeia."
*Googles "onomatopoeia.."

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post #59 of 326 Old 10-26-2016, 06:43 PM
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Interestingly, in Nintendo's quarter 2 financials, they announced that Mario Kart 8 has passed the 8 million mark. Pretty impressive for a system with an install base of 13 million. Still, with just 13 million Wii U units sold, there must be potential in this one to easily move another 8 million copies if the Switch hardware is a hit.

They also stressed that 3DS support will continue, as was rumored. If this indeed has a significant post-replacement presence in the marketplace, I'd be pleasantly surprised. I hope they're serious about it since it seems evident that Switch won't fully replace the niche that the 3DS fills today, given its size and likely power requirements.

I'd love to see another high quality remake hit it like Star Fox and the two N64 Zelda's. Its end of life period would be a good time to pull out the stops with the ports/remasters, since I think people realize we can't expect major AAA original releases any longer on it.

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post #60 of 326 Old 10-27-2016, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Interestingly, in Nintendo's quarter 2 financials, they announced that Mario Kart 8 has passed the 8 million mark. Pretty impressive for a system with an install base of 13 million. Still, with just 13 million Wii U units sold, there must be potential in this one to easily move another 8 million copies if the Switch hardware is a hit.

They also stressed that 3DS support will continue, as was rumored. If this indeed has a significant post-replacement presence in the marketplace, I'd be pleasantly surprised. I hope they're serious about it since it seems evident that Switch won't fully replace the niche that the 3DS fills today, given its size and likely power requirements.

I'd love to see another high quality remake hit it like Star Fox and the two N64 Zelda's. Its end of life period would be a good time to pull out the stops with the ports/remasters, since I think people realize we can't expect major AAA original releases any longer on it.


They also announced the next update - Jan 12, 2017: https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/...55799302246400




and our buddies over at Let's Play Video Games have published rumors that the tablet will accept MicroSD up to 128GB but there is NO USB storage option for the base, which actually makes a lot of sense, who wants to have your home USB HDD full of content you can't take on the go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LPVG.com
Where the New 3DS supported Micro SD up to 2GB and Micro SDHC up to 32GB, the Nintendo Switch development hardware supports Micro SDXC cards up to 128 GB in size. It is currently unclear if this upper limit will be reduced on the retail model, but the development model of the Switch does support running software directly off the Micro SD card as you would off the internal memory or a game cart.

In addition, a source close to the production of the Switch reveal trailer has informed us that the Micro SD slot on the Switch can be located underneath the handheld’s kickstand on the model shown in the reveal trailer.
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