How much to build a 4K gaming PC? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 7Likes
  • 2 Post By DaGamePimp
  • 1 Post By barrelbelly
  • 2 Post By twxabfn
  • 1 Post By Friendlys
  • 1 Post By JaremyP
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 06-30-2016, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 37
How much to build a 4K gaming PC?

How much would it cost to build a high end 4K gaming PC that can output 120hz?
Psycidelicos is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 07-01-2016, 03:18 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DaGamePimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,202
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked: 583
4K @ 120Hz could easily be north of $2k and likely closer to $3k with quality gear.


- Jason
barrelbelly and Psycidelicos like this.

HT = Sony HW45ES @133" / Lumagen Radiance / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony x800 / Toshiba HD-A3
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI game PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON
DaGamePimp is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 07-01-2016, 11:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
barrelbelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,488
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked: 502
Jason hit the nail on the head. Most importantly...start your analysis with a quality, native 4k monitor before considering anything else. And the correct size for 4k...34"-43"...from 2'-3' view distance will run at least $700-$1500 alone. Even though those prices will start to fall dramatically in the near future. Even if you're thinking VR headsets as the display...the core pricing fundamentals are similar right now. Even with very limited gaming availability IMO.
Psycidelicos likes this.
barrelbelly is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 15 Old 07-01-2016, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 37
I'm buying a 65 inch Vizio P Series for gaming. I would like to eventually build a 4k gaming PC to go with it that allows me to run games in max settings at 120hz.


Right now I only have around 1200 leftover after I buy the tv in my budget. I figure I'll invest that into the audio.

Would spending 1200-1300 on a gaming PC now be wasteful or allow me to build upon it over a few months eventually reaching my goal?
Psycidelicos is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 07-01-2016, 12:38 PM
Member
 
twxabfn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycidelicos View Post
I'm buying a 65 inch Vizio P Series for gaming. I would like to eventually build a 4k gaming PC to go with it that allows me to run games in max settings at 120hz.
Just to make absolutely sure you're aware of this, the P65 can only do [email protected]; the best it can do at 4k is 60Hz, which is due to HDMI bandwidth limitations. The only display I found in a quick search that can actually do [email protected] is a $5,000 Dell OLED monitor.

Also, [email protected]@4:4:4 is only available on HDMI ports 1-4, which have higher input lag (~35ms vs ~18ms) than HDMI5, which in turn can only do [email protected] 4:2:2 8-bit or 4:2:0 10-bit. That port does [email protected] 4:4:4 10-bit or 4:2:2 12-bit, but doesn't support HDMI 2.0, which means you can't use it for HDR games when they come out.

Also also, there's no single-GPU solution yet that can consistently do [email protected]@max settings. 1080s in SLI might be able to do that, but that's your entire $1300 budget right there! Personally, I decided that framerate was more important than resolution, so I'm planning on a 1070 as that should be able to do [email protected] no problem, even if I occasionally have to drop a setting or two a notch down from max. It might even be able to handle [email protected] on lower settings, although I haven't seen any benchmarks to that effect (haven't gone looking since I don't want to game at 4k). A 1080 is more capable at 4k, but it's also much more expensive - IMHO not worth it, but @GardenVariety is gaming on a P-Series with one and could offer up a different perspective.

So with the P65, you're looking at a series of tradeoffs. You can't do [email protected]:4:4 with the lowest input lag, you can't do [email protected] and HDR, etc. Now, I don't have a 2016 Vizio yet - I'm waiting on the Rtings M-Series review to decide between a P65 and an M70 - so I can't tell you how much worse the other 4k chroma values look on HDMI 5, or if 35ms of input lag is actually fine, or any of that kind of thing.

You can build a system with a Skylake i5 & 1070 in it for roughly your $1300 budget, and it should do you just fine for [email protected] gaming for the foreseeable future - I'm going i5-4590 / 1070 in my system, so if I'm wrong, then I'll be boned too.
Psycidelicos and DaverJ like this.
twxabfn is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 07-03-2016, 01:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jhoff80's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,835
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Liked: 370
Yeah, honestly, the monitor isn't even close to the biggest factor in this. You're not even going to get 120fps with two GTX 1080s in SLI unless you turn down settings in games, and dual 1080s already cost the entirety of your budget.

Edit: Which is apparently something already mentioned in the post above, but I must've glazed right over that part of it.

XBL/Steam: JHoff80

Last edited by jhoff80; 07-03-2016 at 01:11 PM.
jhoff80 is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 07-03-2016, 03:12 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 11,637
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 915 Post(s)
Liked: 1708
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
Yeah, honestly, the monitor isn't even close to the biggest factor in this. You're not even going to get 120fps with two GTX 1080s in SLI unless you turn down settings in games, and dual 1080s already cost the entirety of your budget.



Edit: Which is apparently something already mentioned in the post above, but I must've glazed right over that part of it.

It really depends so much on the game. With dual 1080s I can pull 120fps on epic settings at 2880p in overwatch, whereas max settings in AC syndicate is only like 70fps at 1440p.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 07-04-2016, 09:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by twxabfn View Post
Just to make absolutely sure you're aware of this, the P65 can only do [email protected]; the best it can do at 4k is 60Hz, which is due to HDMI bandwidth limitations. The only display I found in a quick search that can actually do [email protected] is a $5,000 Dell OLED monitor.

Also, [email protected]@4:4:4 is only available on HDMI ports 1-4, which have higher input lag (~35ms vs ~18ms) than HDMI5, which in turn can only do [email protected] 4:2:2 8-bit or 4:2:0 10-bit. That port does [email protected] 4:4:4 10-bit or 4:2:2 12-bit, but doesn't support HDMI 2.0, which means you can't use it for HDR games when they come out.

Also also, there's no single-GPU solution yet that can consistently do [email protected]@max settings. 1080s in SLI might be able to do that, but that's your entire $1300 budget right there! Personally, I decided that framerate was more important than resolution, so I'm planning on a 1070 as that should be able to do [email protected] no problem, even if I occasionally have to drop a setting or two a notch down from max. It might even be able to handle [email protected] on lower settings, although I haven't seen any benchmarks to that effect (haven't gone looking since I don't want to game at 4k). A 1080 is more capable at 4k, but it's also much more expensive - IMHO not worth it, but @GardenVariety is gaming on a P-Series with one and could offer up a different perspective.

So with the P65, you're looking at a series of tradeoffs. You can't do [email protected]:4:4 with the lowest input lag, you can't do [email protected] and HDR, etc. Now, I don't have a 2016 Vizio yet - I'm waiting on the Rtings M-Series review to decide between a P65 and an M70 - so I can't tell you how much worse the other 4k chroma values look on HDMI 5, or if 35ms of input lag is actually fine, or any of that kind of thing.

You can build a system with a Skylake i5 & 1070 in it for roughly your $1300 budget, and it should do you just fine for [email protected] gaming for the foreseeable future - I'm going i5-4590 / 1070 in my system, so if I'm wrong, then I'll be boned too.
I have a P65 that I use for pc gaming. Use input 5 1080p @ 120 fps with 7950's crossfired. Great advice with the 1070. I will be purchasing 1 myself for 1080p gaming. As was stated already, single card solutions are not ready for 4k @60fps just yet. So I will bide my time with a 1070 until a single card under 500 dollars comes along for max 4k gaming..
DaverJ likes this.
Friendlys is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 07-07-2016, 04:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JaremyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MI
Posts: 1,347
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 757 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by twxabfn View Post
So with the P65, you're looking at a series of tradeoffs. You can't do [email protected]:4:4 with the lowest input lag, you can't do [email protected] and HDR, etc. Now, I don't have a 2016 Vizio yet - I'm waiting on the Rtings M-Series review to decide between a P65 and an M70 - so I can't tell you how much worse the other 4k chroma values look on HDMI 5, or if 35ms of input lag is actually fine, or any of that kind of thing.

You can build a system with a Skylake i5 & 1070 in it for roughly your $1300 budget, and it should do you just fine for [email protected] gaming for the foreseeable future - I'm going i5-4590 / 1070 in my system, so if I'm wrong, then I'll be boned too.
I tweeted Matt from Vizio recently to ask if HDMI 5 would also be updated in the upcoming update to accept HDR input, and he said yes. So 1080/120 gaming with HDR should work. I have a P75.
Psycidelicos likes this.
JaremyP is online now  
post #10 of 15 Old 07-07-2016, 06:26 AM
Member
 
twxabfn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
I tweeted Matt from Vizio recently to ask if HDMI 5 would also be updated in the upcoming update to accept HDR input, and he said yes. So 1080/120 gaming with HDR should work. I have a P75.
I continue to be baffled by why Vizio labeled HDMI 5 as "supports HDMI 1.4" in the specs when it supports the following features:

I know that it's only a 10.2Gbps port and that it might have been confusing to try to differentiate between "high speed HDMI 2.0" and "low speed HDMI 2.0" in the specs, but seriously, wouldn't that have been preferable to the confusion of putting all these 2.0 features on a "1.4" port???
twxabfn is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 07-07-2016, 03:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
I tweeted Matt from Vizio recently to ask if HDMI 5 would also be updated in the upcoming update to accept HDR input, and he said yes. So 1080/120 gaming with HDR should work. I have a P75.
Great news, thanks for the information
Friendlys is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 07-07-2016, 03:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by twxabfn View Post
I continue to be baffled by why Vizio labeled HDMI 5 as "supports HDMI 1.4" in the specs when it supports the following features:

I know that it's only a 10.2Gbps port and that it might have been confusing to try to differentiate between "high speed HDMI 2.0" and "low speed HDMI 2.0" in the specs, but seriously, wouldn't that have been preferable to the confusion of putting all these 2.0 features on a "1.4" port???
Actually, that port is 1.4b which came out to handle 3d 1080p @ 60fps. Meaning its really 1080p 120fps. Pixel clock is 380. Off the subject, someone else mentioned tradeoffs between port5 and 1 to 4. Ports 1 to 4 can do 1080p @ 120 fps but has the higher lag. Can someone tell me if I use 120fps vs 60fps what effect this has on pixel response and or input lag. When using a mouse I can tell a huge difference in the FEEL between 60 vs 120fps.
Friendlys is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 07-07-2016, 04:56 PM
Member
 
twxabfn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friendlys View Post
Actually, that port is 1.4b which came out to handle 3d 1080p @ 60fps. Meaning its really 1080p 120fps.
Nope. I posted about this in the P-Series owners thread, and your bolded statement is a common misreading of the 1.4b spec. 3D [email protected] != 2D [email protected] The 2.0 spec specifically calls out its high speed and low speed variants, so it's more likely a low-speed 2.0 port or a 1.4 chipset with 2.0 features.

I can't answer your question with observational evidence, but we can do the math. HDMI 5 has ~18 ms of lag, HDMI 1-4 has ~35 ms. Frametimes for 120 vs 60 are 1/120 = 8.33ms and 1/60 = 16.67ms. So input lag at 120fps is 3 frames on 5, 5 frames on 1-4; 60fps lag is 2 frames on 5, 3 frames on 1-4. What that means practically...I have no freaking idea.

Last edited by twxabfn; 07-07-2016 at 05:48 PM.
twxabfn is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 07-07-2016, 06:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by twxabfn View Post
Nope. I posted about this in the P-Series owners thread, and your bolded statement is a common misreading of the 1.4b spec. 3D [email protected] != 2D [email protected] The 2.0 spec specifically calls out its high speed and low speed variants, so it's more likely a low-speed 2.0 port or a 1.4 chipset with 2.0 features.

I can't answer your question with observational evidence, but we can do the math. HDMI 5 has ~18 ms of lag, HDMI 1-4 has ~35 ms. Frametimes for 120 vs 60 are 1/120 = 8.33ms and 1/60 = 16.67ms. So input lag at 120fps is 3 frames on 5, 5 frames on 1-4; 60fps lag is 2 frames on 5, 3 frames on 1-4. What that means practically...I have no freaking idea.
Okay thanks. I guess it cuts lag in half? As far as what hdmi spec. input 5 is the important piece of information is 380 pixel clock vs 600 for hdmi 1 to 4. This tells you the spec for chroma, resolution and fps of the input.
Friendlys is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 07-12-2016, 12:00 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DaGamePimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,202
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked: 583
I have the Vizio m70-c3 and it's an excellent 4k set for gaming (input 5), some of the lowest input lag out there for a UHDtv (next purchase will be OLED once they work out the other bugs).


If you buy the Club3D CAC-1070 adapter you can at least send 4:4:4 (4k/60) to the set versus cutting it off at the card (to 4:2:0). This allows the display to handle the conversion versus the gpu but at least you are actually sending the full color/chroma info to the display.


- Jason

HT = Sony HW45ES @133" / Lumagen Radiance / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony x800 / Toshiba HD-A3
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI game PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON
DaGamePimp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply HTPC Gaming

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off