Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 01:29 PM
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I was able to pick up a 51Fd today with the latest firmware.

There's simply too much ambient light in the room for me to compare the 1080p/24 PQ to my BD30 and S350. I'll try and do that later tonight when it's completely dark in the room. I'm using an ISF'd 60" SXRD A3000 display. I'll post my thoughts.

I did play around with the unit and it is a bit clunky. On one occasion it would not eject my disc and I had to unplug the unit then re-start it. A couple of times the unit seemed to choke on my remote commands which were pretty straightforward. I haven't measured the load times, but it is definitely slower than the S350 and BD30.

One thing I found interesting was that even though my Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH receiver is HDMI 1.3, it claims not to support Deep Color. However, I had no problems with the 51FD sending Deep Color (High Transmission ON) through my receiver to my display. I'll connect the player directly to the display just to make sure 'something' different isn't going on.
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post #752 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post


Blu-ray will not survive in the upcoming downloading revolution if they keep offering $600 and $800 players that freeze in the menu section or in the middle of a movie.

I say little problems here and there is normal on any new format, but third generation players should at least be able to load and play a movie properly without requiring their customers to have a degree from MIT.

Download 25GB every time you want to watch a hi-def movie?

Streaming and pay-per-view are for the birds, that's why posters in this forum own hundreds of disks.
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post #753 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 01:38 PM
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Can anyone tell me the height of the BDP-51FD? As usual Pioneer's web site doesn't work. Thanks!
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post #754 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

Pioneer USA will only mail it in the US. I'm surprised no one here has put it online yet.

...and 1-3 Days to Ireland is around $50.00

I believe that's for 1 pound package, so CD should be much less.
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post #755 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

...and 1-3 Days to Ireland is around $50.00

Hi Pres2play,

To express airmail a cd with firmware v1.0?
Sounds a little pricey
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post #756 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

Can anyone tell me the height of the BDP-51FD? As usual Pioneer's web site doesn't work. Thanks!

4 7/8" with a tape measure. Definitely under 5".
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post #757 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 01:58 PM
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I picked up a 51 today and spent an hour or so comparing the image quality to the PS3. Both were displaying 1080p 24Hz and the 51 (Professional mode) was using the demo firmware. The projector is 1080p and the image is 110 inches.

I always use Chapter 7 of Crank (Blu-ray) as it's great material for comparisons. It's detailed, offers close-ups and contains both dark and bright content. Here's a shot of the scene via the PS3 (I don't have a matching one for the 51).


The first few times looking at close-ups I couldn't see any difference at all but just sensed the 51 was slightly more detailed. I got the same impression while viewing the moving gears during the opening of the disc.

The last few times I focussed on the couple in the background especially the young lady at the table (not shown above). By doing this I could clearly see she was more detailed with the 51 versus the PS3. The difference certainly wasn't night and day rather more like you got lucky focussing the projector and hit the sweet spot. If you have tried focussing a projector you'll know what I mean.

While playing around I also noticed...
  • It's extremely quiet.
  • The display can be totally turned off except for one very small red light.
  • It somehow selected 24Hz for my projector which I normally have to force.

Compared to the PS3 it's slower than slow but that's not an issue for me. Without spending some serious time or using the release firmware I can't really come to any other conclusions.

PS. I'll take a copy of the release firmware if anyone is giving them away!

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post #758 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneill View Post

Hi Pres2play,

To express airmail a cd with firmware v1.0?
Sounds a little pricey

Yeah, I was looking at the U.S. Postal Service site, under international pricing. I'm sure it's cheaper, depending on the actual package or envelope.
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post #759 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:


The display can be totally turned off except for one very small red light.

It has a red light when on? Yuck! All my HT gear has blue lights, including my Pioneer 4280.

Quote:


Yeah, I was looking at the U.S. Postal Service site, under international pricing. I'm sure it's cheaper, depending on the actual package or envelope.

I mail items to Europe almost every day. A disc wouldn't be anymore than $5.00 to Ireland, from the US.

Quote:


4 7/8" with a tape measure. Definitely under 5".

Thanks!
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post #760 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Yeah, I was looking at the U.S. Postal Service site, under international pricing. I'm sure it's cheaper, depending on the actual package or envelope.

I mail DVD's to the UK all the time for under $5.00 (via: Air Mail).
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post #761 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

It has a red light when on? Yuck! All my HT gear has blue lights, including my Pioneer 4280.

Aside from the white LED display, it has two small red lights, one medium blue light, and one large blue light
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post #762 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I mail DVD's to the UK all the time for under $5.00 (via: Air Mail).

Sneill,

PM me with your address and I will mail you my disc for free on Monday IF it is in fact around $5.00US for 1-3 day service.

Just mail it back to me after the calibration

Thanks.
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post #763 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:24 PM
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^

It won't be that cheap for 1 to 3 days. Just mail it USPS air (or letter post). It will get there in roughly a week.
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post #764 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

When I first got v1.0 firmware, I was able to get it to freeze during normal playback after I had just previously tried to get it to crash by skipping around chapters at fast speed, going to the menu multiple times in rapid succession, etc. (these were problems for beta firmware). After doing that, it froze during normal playback, so I think this is conditional as gonzalc3's testing produced with it.

I was not able to repeat the same glitch, so it was likely a BD-J state bug or something of that nature. Played through both Mummy and Mummy Returns otherwise without a hitch.



That was gonzalc3's bug, you can read about it a bit back, I do not have this movie so I could not verify - but it looks like another tough one to reproduce as it was non-repeatable by gonzalc3.



Yes, but this is important because it seems to more seriously suffer from the same BD-J bug that affects Top Gun and Sunshine intermittently. It seems to affect Space Ace/Dragon's Lair consistently. I say the same bug because Dragon's Lair uses secondary audio extensively and it freezes in the same fashion the aforementioned movies do.



Top Gun seems to have the more severe issues of the two, but in both cases they intermittently freeze before the main menu. A lot of people have confirmed this. My guess is a BD-J secondary audio bug. Someone saying "it plays fine" may be misleading because Top Gun does play fine, but only like 50% of the time. Once it gets going there is no issue, there is just that chance of freeze before menu. I have not experimented with Sunshine prohibitively but it froze before menu 1/3 times I played it so it looks similar to Top Gun in issue.



The fact that the issue specifically occurs during complex BD-J menus and on complex BD-J games and generally does not affect normal playback leads me to believe that it has nothing to do with disc quality and everything to do with a bug in the BD-J engine.



Relatively good assessment. For best A/V quality the 51FD/05FD have no equal in their pricerange, while the BD50 excels at BD-J & disc load speed.

Thanks for clarification and Agree with you 100% re BD-J bug.

Bryan
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post #765 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

^

It won't be that cheap for 1 to 3 days. Just mail it USPS air (or letter post). It will get there in roughly a week.

Sneill says he needs it by Thursday, 8/21, for ISF calibration.
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post #766 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:43 PM
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I have a 5080 and the 51FD. I've tried connecting it using HDMI and component and have not been able to get a black level even closely comparable to my DirecTV H20 receiver. I've tried to adjust both the TV and the 51FD but have been unsuccessful. Any suggestions? The black levels are reminiscent of the PX500 Panasonics.
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post #767 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:43 PM
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how large is the ISO image, can't someone just email it to Sneill

Doesn't anyone have a web site to post it on??

Still no Joerod, I think he is still in that hot tub

The best buy store I am looking at says they will get in 3 next Friday. I hope/assume it will be with the 1.0 firmware
Has anyone gotten the 51 from Best Buy with the 1.0 firmware yet

Dan
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post #768 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:52 PM
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I ll appreciate to get it through a download like for example, rapidshare.de
I asked the cd from pioneer but did not get is after 10 days adn as I am going back France in few days, hard to get it.
If someone can upload it, it ll be appreciated, I am sure the iso image is not so large, perhaps only like 80 mo...
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post #769 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsfanatic View Post

I have a 5080 and the 51FD. I've tried connecting it using HDMI and component and have not been able to get a black level even closely comparable to my DirecTV H20 receiver. I've tried to adjust both the TV and the 51FD but have been unsuccessful. Any suggestions? The black levels are reminiscent of the PX500 Panasonics.

I don't have a DirectTV H20 receiver or PX500 to make the comparison, but my 5080/51 combo has terrific blacks and shadow detail. Contrast is set at 27 and brightness at 0.
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post #770 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

Download 25GB every time you want to watch a hi-def movie?

Streaming and pay-per-view are for the birds, that's why posters in this forum own hundreds of disks.

I agree, until a lot of us die off at least. The near future is healthy for physical ownership, but future generations WILL laugh at us.....Probably sometime after BR has been replaced by a higher res alternative.....

05-1.3H BJC-3808-1.3H BJC-5080
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post #771 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I spent about 7 hours going through my BD library on the BDP-05FD.

BDP-05 - > Mitsubishi HC5500 FP w/ Reon HQV on board.
BDP-05 - > Samsung 1080P 40" LCD

So far, I am quite excited about this player. Out of the box PQ is fantastic, love the capacitive touch controls and source direct output.

BD's

I am Legend
The Shining
Earth Wind Fire / Chicago concert
Terminator 2
Predator
AVP and AVP Requiem
Cars
Fifth Element
GoodFellas
2001
Road Warrior (fantastic BD transfer)
Spiderman 1,2,3
Batman Begins
Twister

DVD's (for upscaling tests)

Strange Days
Terminator 2
The incredibles

I am pleasantly surprised at the internal upscaling, I find it to be quite close to my Reon HQV (tested on Samsung 1080P 40" LCD)

Haven't run into any freezing or locking issues. Not a huge TC fan, someone would have to give me the Top Gun BD to test.

Very happy customer so far. I can finally retire this makeshift HTPC and enjoy the simplicity of inserting a disc in and hitting play. It still isn't quite as slick looking at the Pio CLD-99 LD player. 1995-2008




WOW....WOW .... i'm REALLY stoked now after seeing just how nice this unit looks it's gonna be a long two weeks wait for me now Thanks for your input AND pics zombie!!!
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post #772 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 04:15 PM
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Sorry it has taken me so long. We have been doing a new deck and are putting in a nice hot tub to go with it. Of course new outdoor speakers as well. I played with the 51FD last night and then a lot today. I will first start off by saying it can be the perfect fit to your set up as long as you have the right equipment to go with it. Sure it is not the right Blu-ray player for everyone but it is perfect for my set up. Using a pre/pro or receiver to do Dolby TrueHD (then adding Ultra2 Cinema) or DTS-HD is of course the main consideration...

Pic Q- I was very impressed with the amount of picture settings this unit has. From YNR, CNR, BNR, MNR, to detail, black setting, gamma corrections, white and black level to hue and chroma levels. I really like the Detail setting. The amount of sharpness you can achieve without adding noise was outstanding! Also having different settings depending on your display was also a cool twist. There is LCD, PDP (plasma) PJ, Pro and for those that tweak (like me) memories 1 to 3. It is amazing the amount of adjusting you can do with all of these options. No matter what display you have you should be able to get the most optimal picture Q out of it. Speaking of displays, if yours is capable of accepting deep color or x.v. color this Blu-ray player is a must. I did notice some differences with my Sony VW200 PJ. Some may not notice as much because the difference was less subtle on my Panny 1080p 42" plasma and Toshiba 32" 1080p LCD. With my Sony thought it was much nicer eye candy. I did take a few screen shots but it is very hard to tell with a camera. If you have a capable display then I really thin this unit should be on your short list.

Audio- Not much to report here. The Bitstreaming is excellent. I was very impressed with any Blu-ray or SD dvd title I played.

Misc- Build Quality- I was really impressed with the build quality this unit has. It is very heavy and built like a tank. The Denon units have nothing on this new Pioneer unit. I also have been wearing a band-aid so it was a little tougher to navigate the remote (yes, I cut myself working on the deck ). Anyway, the remote worked well. I should point out that I am using the "final" firmware version until they release another.

Issues- There were a couple. I can't do a complete cheerleader review. I did have a freeze when I was trying to get a good screen shot. I had to power down the unit (hold power for 5 seconds) to get it out of it. Since then it has been fine. Also a couple of times when rewinding or fast forwarding after I would hit play it would go back to my previous spot where I started. I really think Pioneer should consider a couple of BETA testers (not BB customers) when they release their new units. I hit this within 12 minutes. I could have reported it to them on day one. Not that I am offering my services but I think it would not be a bad idea. Since my Denon 3800 fiasco I will not let anything slip through anymore. Which is also why it took longer for me. I tested more...

Resolution testing- I really like being able to go source direct. It is really nice that I can do this with the Pioneer units at this price level. Switching between them is to easy. A button for going up and a button for going down. Now why hasn't the other companies caught on to this by now? Kudos go to Pioneer again for having this great feature that can be done by the remote and so easily.

SD dvds- Many are still concerned about SD dvd performance. The 51FD is pretty good and I would not hesitate to use it as my main SD dvd player if I did not have a VP. Especially being able to adjust the heck out of the picture. You are able to achieve an eye pleasing picture with any title!

Comparisons- I used the BD30, BD1500, S350 and of course PS3 for my comparisons. I really liked all the features and picture Q adjusting the 51FD has over the rest. Having those alone make it a notch higher then the other units. Sure they are all very close at 1080p/24 but being able to tweak more with the 51FD puts it over the top. I would say it can do the exact same as the Denon 3800 (since it has the same picture adjustments). Of course many care about load times. I have never pulled out a stop watch but I will say it is a little slower then the BD30 and of course the king of load times-PS3. Does that matter? Not to me. I still think it is not bad at all. Some of my titles that used to take forever seemed to load much faster.

Final thoughts, I know many are still waiting for this unit. Believe me it is worth the wait. You get exceptional picture (especially at 1080p/24) and the cool new color trick that may really benefit some who have capable display. Still if yours is not the amount of picture tweaking you can do does separate this unit from the bunch. It is big, impressive looking, and sports some major picture adjusting that can make any display shine. I am leaving the 51FD in my set up... I like having HDMI High Speed Data Transmission!
LL
LL
LL

4K HDR10- ignore the “rules” and trust your eyes!
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post #773 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 04:16 PM
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A few more...
LL
LL
LL

4K HDR10- ignore the “rules” and trust your eyes!
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post #774 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 04:17 PM
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Thanks Joe! Great review (as always) ! (and thanks for the pics!)
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post #775 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 04:20 PM
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Thanks John! In the pics I wanted to try and capture the excellent color I am getting with my 200. Also notice the excellent detail in them as well. I have more but am not sure everyone wants to see a bunch of pics. I spent a looooong time going thru a vast amount of titles looking for good ones.

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post #776 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 04:30 PM
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joerod,
My projector is pan ax200u and was looking at the 51fd to replace my PS3. Do you think there will be a great or small PQ difference, between the two players at 1080p/24 on this projector. Thanks

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post #777 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 04:32 PM
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Cohall, I can answer one fo your questions. I have a 51, using it with a logitech harmony. Basically what you need to do is get the 51 remote and have the harmony remote learn the toggle on/off command. I ran into the same issue. Once I did that, it worked perfectly.

Also, thanks for the info on the audio/speaker issue.

Jim


Quote:
Originally Posted by cohall View Post

Just a quick report on my experiences thus far...and a question, because I might be an idiot.

Received my 51 from pioneer directly (ordered from their website) yesterday. Set it up last night, and watched the first half of Fifth Element, and Rescue Dawn all the way through.

I'm running HDMI directly to my Denon 3808, for both audio and video.

So far, absolutely no hiccups (yes, I know I've only tested two discs). Played both perfectly, remote response was excellent, PQ was really excellent. I have the player outputting source direct, and video set to 'professional'.

To answer a previous poster's questions, the audio and speaker options are greyed out for me as well, but I'm able to make adjustments once I have a movie playing. It's a bit odd (though, I didn't test if the speaker menu was accessible during playback).

OK, so here's my question...how do i know it's set to output bitstream to my receiver? When watching Rescue Dawn last night, I picked DTS HD Master, and the front of my receiver did indeed read DTS-HD MSTR on the display. When I went to look at the audio details it said 48khz...why did I think it should say 96khz? Anyway, if anyone knows, I'd appreciate an answer.

Only other issue, not the players fault, is that my harmony remote won't yet work with it. The 51 is in the database, but when i hit the 'update remote' button, the update errors out, and won't finish the update. says something about needing to learn the discreet on/off code, and some other error as well. If anyone figures it out, I'd love a heads up.

If anyone has specific questions, I'd be happy to try and answer them. As this is my first blu-ray, I only have 4 discs right now to test (Rescue Dawn, Fifth Element, Super Bad, and Juno), so I may not be much help in the specific disc testing arena.

OK, final question, I just remembered. No idea what HDMI high speed does, and if I should have it on or off, and also, under video, should I set it to 4:4:4, 4:2:2, or something else?



Thats all for now.

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post #778 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 04:40 PM
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I also set my 51FD up with a Harmony ONE and it works great. As well as with my MX300and Sony Navitus.
Jsil, the PS3 is damn good at 1080p/24. In fact all of them are nearly equal and as I have posted many times it is like splitting hairs picking the best one. I seriously think we have reached the pinnacle in pic Q for now (I think I have said that before to). I won't lie to you though. The 51FD has many more adjustments then the PS3. I was able to get a more eye pleasing picture from the 51FD. Of course I am an eye candy extremist but when it comes to pic Q even a 5% difference means a lot to me. I would say I got more than 5% using the 51FD though. With all those tweaks you can make any display look spectacular. Especially with a good Blu-ray title!

4K HDR10- ignore the “rules” and trust your eyes!
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post #779 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 04:46 PM
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joerod,
Thank-you for your input. I'm going to keep the PS3 for now and see what happens down the line.

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post #780 of 31033 Old 08-16-2008, 04:58 PM
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I agree with your review joe. The image of it is gorgeous.
It is buggy though. How does it compared with the demon 3800?

Chris. My DVD UHD Blu Ray and Blu Ray collection jvc dla-rs2000, ST 130 (144") cinemascope screen, Carada Masquerade CIH masking system, B&W 803D2s mains, B&W HTM2D2 center channel, B&W 805D2 surrounds, B&W CCMM682s in-ceiling speakers (4), B&W DB1 subwoofer, Anthem AVM 60 processor, Parasound Halo A51+(2xA21)+(2xA23) amps, Panasonic UB820 player, Roku Ultra, vertex, and Harmony Elite remote.
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