Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 1324 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #39691 of 41487 Old 11-02-2014, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
Freedom speech fine. Robot not too good.

The title of this thread says "technical talk only". We can find a forum moderator to explain that if necessary.

-Bill
Well Bill a lot folks pay five hundred to one thousand dollars for BDP-83 and SE players it should play any 2d movies, my old Denon BD-2010CI will play all the movies that I through at it,even Monster Univ. with no audio drop outs it loads a little slow and finally 40 percent of folks on AVS forum complain about they brought or seen in person, as long folks are not using foul language or cussing they have right for free speech, my 83 is now use for older Blu-ray movies and CDs, I just brought PS4 Friday the graphics and picture Quality audio are better then OPPO.
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post #39692 of 41487 Old 11-02-2014, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post
I am happy that Oppo repaired your player (I assume it was out of warranty, and thus worthy of mention as exemplary Oppo support). But one has to question how you determined that no other CE company would have provided any support for a problem of this type. But then I have never had a disc tray malfunction in any of my optical media players of any type (CD, laser disc, DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-ray) from any manufacturer (Denon, JVC, Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony, Toshiba, Yamaha), so have no experience trying to get a manufacturer to fix such a problem.
I stand corrected as I haven't tried to get another player repaired for this type of problem.
I've had numerous players and although I've had some issues I've never tried to get one repaired by a manufacturer.
I do have an old Funai made Sylvania player that has a disc drawer problem but it cost less than it would be worth to even ship anywhere for repair even if free.
It is probably the basis for my "trash" comment. (It is at my daughter's house and you have to "help" the drawer open and closed.)
My 103D takes care of any issues with newer discs if any and I still can play my DVD-A and SACD's in the 83 in the bedroom.
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post #39693 of 41487 Old 11-02-2014, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It remains the case that we've got 1 popular disc that isn't playing (confirmed), although even THAT title appears to only be having problems in the version Fox released for the U.S. Lucky US. Thanks Fox!
That's interesting. Where did you come by the tidbit that it's only the US (Blu Ray region A) that's having problems? Is it just lack of complaints from regions B or C or a specific source that's tested a different region on the Oppo 83?

I ask because the Blu Ray of XMDFP (which I assume is the popular disc you were referring to) hasn't yet been released in the UK (region B)

Chris Meredith

Last edited by Ka1hode; 11-02-2014 at 10:07 PM. Reason: Clarification
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post #39694 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 03:17 AM
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^ Yes that disc, and the report of it playing OK was from a user in the Netherlands.
--Bob
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post #39695 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Chise View Post
Well Bill a lot folks pay five hundred to one thousand dollars for BDP-83 and SE players it should play any 2d movies, my old Denon BD-2010CI will play all the movies that I through at it,even Monster Univ. with no audio drop outs it loads a little slow and finally 40 percent of folks on AVS forum complain about they brought or seen in person, as long folks are not using foul language or cussing they have right for free speech, my 83 is now use for older Blu-ray movies and CDs, I just brought PS4 Friday the graphics and picture Quality audio are better then OPPO.
Well, it's good that your 2010CI is playing well, there have been some issues with that too - that's the same vintage as the 83 (2009, 2010).

The PS4 is actually having some video teething problems, not with regular blurays at 24p but with other types of video (1080i, etc). It seems to be taking a step back from the PS3 as far as video quality, and fails to live up to the PS3 or standalone bluray players. So objectively, its PQ except for USA 24p content is not up to a quality standard.

From that article:

"Unsurprisingly with all of this in mind, there is no provision made for film mode deinterlacing (detecting the presence of film content stored in an interlaced signal). Just so it’s clear, here are the tests from the 60hz tests on the Spears & Munsil disc:
  • 2-2 (30fps inside 60i): Fail
  • 2-2-2-4: Fail
  • 2-3-2-3 PF-T (24fps inside 60i with MPEG metadata): Fail
  • 2-3-2-3 (24fps inside 60i): Fail
  • 2-3-2-3: Fail
  • 2-3-3-2: Fail
  • 3-2-3-2-2: Fail
  • 5-5: Fail
  • 6-4: Fail
  • 8-7-8-7: Fail
  • Time-adjusted: Fail
Likewise, for European users watching European content (BBC TV shows are an obvious example), it’s worth knowing that the Blu-ray format does not have provision for 25p, so all of this content is encoded at 50i, and accordingly falls foul of the PS4′s lack of deinterlacing capabilities. With 1080i HD content, this is actually not a gigantic problem, and we imagine most users won’t notice owed to the high HD resolution masking the resolution loss. It’s still poorer quality than many standalone players, however
"

Hopefully Sony fixes that (or has fixed, don't have a PS4) and the PS4. improves as a media player.

In the end, it's your preference. I've had issues with the 83 on one disk that I played (Monsters U), but since I wanted to upgrade to the 103D and did, it is not an issue for me now.

The 83 is doing a fine job as a bedroom music center / player for me, so as far as movie content, it's not an issue any more.
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post #39696 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 06:37 AM
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Likewise, for European users watching European content (BBC TV shows are an obvious example), it’s worth knowing that the Blu-ray format does not have provision for 25p, so all of this content is encoded at 50i, and accordingly falls foul of the PS4′s lack of deinterlacing capabilities.
When it comes to HD video, the old idea that all European material would be 25p or 50p/i is not necessarily valid. Because you're dealing with digitally encoded material and modern TV sets, don't assume that it has to use the electric power rate to sync to. A lot of BBC material on Blu-Ray is 24p and not 25 or 50.

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post #39697 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 07:05 AM
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When it comes to HD video, the old idea that all European material would be 25p or 50p/i is not necessarily valid. Because you're dealing with digitally encoded material and modern TV sets, don't assume that it has to use the electric power rate to sync to. A lot of BBC material on Blu-Ray is 24p and not 25 or 50.
That may be true (don't know the distribution and availability), I was directly quoting a UK web site review.
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post #39698 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 07:16 AM
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Both my Oppos are region-free modded and I buy a fair number of European (and occasional Australian) BDs and they have almost always been 24p, including material from filmed TV shows.

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post #39699 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 11:30 AM
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Both my Oppos are region-free modded and I buy a fair number of European (and occasional Australian) BDs and they have almost always been 24p, including material from filmed TV shows.
Good to know. I've gotten a couple of concert movies from the UK and probably will expand my library. No TV shows, so no idea about the formats.
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post #39700 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 12:04 PM
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OPPO (with substantial assistance from MediaTek) now has a handle on why X-Men: DOFP will not play. In brief FOX screwed up, but in a way that only gets caught by decoders which strictly enforce the standard as written -- such as the older MediaTek decoder in the 83, which was built at a time when strict adherence to the rules was what the industry was asking for. And yes, it all has to do with FOX's latest, cunning new scheme for copy protection.

The rule they broke is not strictly enforced by newer decoders, including newer decoders from MediaTek such as are found in the 9x and 10x players.

Next step is to see if OPPO can come up with a workaround which doesn't put other disc playback at risk. No promises, but knowing what needs to be fixed is certainly a leg up.

Again, this would never have happened if FOX had paid more attention to authoring within the spec as written (i.e., authoring for customer satisfaction), instead of charging off willy-nilly after their latest, copy protection chimera.
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post #39701 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post
Well, it's good that your 2010CI is playing well, there have been some issues with that too - that's the same vintage as the 83 (2009, 2010).

The PS4 is actually having some video teething problems, not with regular blurays at 24p but with other types of video (1080i, etc). It seems to be taking a step back from the PS3 as far as video quality, and fails to live up to the PS3 or standalone bluray players. So objectively, its PQ except for USA 24p content is not up to a quality standard.

From that article:


"Unsurprisingly with all of this in mind, there is no provision made for film mode deinterlacing (detecting the presence of film content stored in an interlaced signal). Just so it’s clear, here are the tests from the 60hz tests on the Spears & Munsil disc:
  • 2-2 (30fps inside 60i): Fail
  • 2-2-2-4: Fail
  • 2-3-2-3 PF-T (24fps inside 60i with MPEG metadata): Fail
  • 2-3-2-3 (24fps inside 60i): Fail
  • 2-3-2-3: Fail
  • 2-3-3-2: Fail
  • 3-2-3-2-2: Fail
  • 5-5: Fail
  • 6-4: Fail
  • 8-7-8-7: Fail
  • Time-adjusted: Fail
Likewise, for European users watching European content (BBC TV shows are an obvious example), it’s worth knowing that the Blu-ray format does not have provision for 25p, so all of this content is encoded at 50i, and accordingly falls foul of the PS4′s lack of deinterlacing capabilities. With 1080i HD content, this is actually not a gigantic problem, and we imagine most users won’t notice owed to the high HD resolution masking the resolution loss. It’s still poorer quality than many standalone players, however
"

Hopefully Sony fixes that (or has fixed, don't have a PS4) and the PS4. improves as a media player.

In the end, it's your preference. I've had issues with the 83 on one disk that I played (Monsters U), but since I wanted to upgrade to the 103D and did, it is not an issue for me now.

The 83 is doing a fine job as a bedroom music center / player for me, so as far as movie content, it's not an issue any more.
It's not issue with me I have other players then OPPO, plus MonsterU is now playing on cable and Directv.
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post #39702 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
OPPO (with substantial assistance from MediaTek) now has a handle on why X-Men: DOFP will not play. In brief FOX screwed up, but in a way that only gets caught by decoders which strictly enforce the standard as written -- such as the older MediaTek decoder in the 83, which was built at a time when strict adherence to the rules was what the industry was asking for. And yes, it all has to do with FOX's latest, cunning new scheme for copy protection.

The rule they broke is not strictly enforced by newer decoders, including newer decoders from MediaTek such as are found in the 9x and 10x players.

Next step is to see if OPPO can come up with a workaround which doesn't put other disc playback at risk. No promises, but knowing what needs to be fixed is certainly a leg up.

Again, this would never have happened if FOX had paid more attention to authoring within the spec as written (i.e., authoring for customer satisfaction), instead of charging off willy-nilly after their latest, copy protection chimera.
--Bob
Interesting. What is the source of your info? What exactly did Fox do that is the "screw-up"? Is there a reference somewhere that we can read more about this?

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #39703 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 01:53 PM
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Interesting. What is the source of your info? What exactly did Fox do that is the "screw-up"? Is there a reference somewhere that we can read more about this?
Think: BD+.
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post #39704 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 02:00 PM
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Interesting. What is the source of your info? What exactly did Fox do that is the "screw-up"? Is there a reference somewhere that we can read more about this?
The source is Beta Tester channels -- i.e., from OPPO. The details are not something I'm at liberty to discuss.
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post #39705 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 02:28 PM
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The source is Beta Tester channels -- i.e., from OPPO. The details are not something I'm at liberty to discuss.
--Bob
Well, hopefully Oppo will be forthcoming about the issue.
And, from a customer perspective, I guess kudos to all the ce manufacturers who avoided this problem.
Hopefully Oppo/MediaTek has learned a lesson for the long term (pay more attention to what customers need/want than what the industry is asking for) and will find a way to fix the 83 for their customers.

And, of course, whatever BD+ on the X-Men Days of Future Past was supposed to accomplish has failed completely because according to my research, apparently BD ripping programs that have not had a recent update can handle this title just fine. Movie studios like Fox & Sony with their addiction to mostly ineffective drm schemes are beyond help.

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post #39706 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 03:22 PM
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Well, hopefully Oppo will be forthcoming about the issue.
And, from a customer perspective, I guess kudos to all the ce manufacturers who avoided this problem.
Hopefully Oppo/MediaTek has learned a lesson for the long term (pay more attention to what customers need/want than what the industry is asking for) and will find a way to fix the 83 for their customers.

And, of course, whatever BD+ on the X-Men Days of Future Past was supposed to accomplish has failed completely because according to my research, apparently BD ripping programs that have not had a recent update can handle this title just fine. Movie studios like Fox & Sony with their addiction to mostly ineffective drm schemes are beyond help.
Perhaps rather than continuing to criticize Oppo you could give them some time to deliver a fix as it's pretty clear that they're looking into it. You seem to have a lot invested in this considering you don't even own an Oppo product (at least that's what I've gathered based on your posts). FYI, beta testers sign NDA's, so we're limited in what we can pass along from the beta channels. It's possible that someone might be able to get more info by sending a message to Oppo, but I honestly think that Bob provided enough detail in his post (and if you have to question HIS source, you clearly haven't been around here very long ).
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post #39707 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 03:35 PM
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^ I must remember to put that in the Suggestion Box at OPPO: Dear OPPO, please ignore more error checks called for in the standards. Customers clearly want that. And heck, all the OTHER kids are doing it! (Those darn standards writers are such meanies! And rules, after all, were MEANT to be broken.)

Yeah, that's the ticket!
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post #39708 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 03:57 PM
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Perhaps rather than continuing to criticize Oppo you could give them some time to deliver a fix as it's pretty clear that they're looking into it. You seem to have a lot invested in this considering you don't even own an Oppo product (at least that's what I've gathered based on your posts). FYI, beta testers sign NDA's, so we're limited in what we can pass along from the beta channels. It's possible that someone might be able to get more info by sending a message to Oppo, but I honestly think that Bob provided enough detail in his post (and if you have to question HIS source, you clearly haven't been around here very long ).
Yes, I have beta tested products over the years for companies (computer software, mostly), and have had to sign non-disclosure agreements - and while I am not particularly familiar with Bob, he answered my question just fine (although I would still like to know more about the details of the issue someday).
Just because I do not own an Oppo ce device doesn't mean I am particularly critical of the company or their products. Their hardware has consistently top reviews and their customer feedback is also consistently stellar - both good things. I have suggested that they seem to be subject to firmware issues more frequently than some other more mainstream ce companies but recognize that some of that could be due to some of the features in the players and number of beta firmwares put out (which I learned more about in the process of reading in this forum).
And yes - I am interested in this BD playback problem impacting the 83 - and learning more about it. I don't know if that is being "invested" in anything beyond gaining knowledge about something that could impact any number of players from most any ce company. I remain thankful that none of my players (4 models from 2 companies) are impacted by this particular issue.

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FWIW I checked my X-Men Days of Future Past and it said "Wrong Disk". So, I'll hold onto it until Oppo comes out with a 4K player.

That's my plan as well; not going to upgrade from the BDP-83 until 4K arrives and OPPO releases a player for native playback of the discs (if this format comes to light)...


Quote:
Also, since I read about problems with Godzilla, I can only say that on bitstream it's the most dynamic soundtrack in my collection. I almost need to wear headphones as to not disturb the wife and the dogs. Great sound.

What "problems" with Godzilla -- you mean how some users are claiming the LFE gets way too "muddy" and such?
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So as I wait until the 11th to be able to rent X-Men: Days of Future Past, has it come down to just waiting to see if OPPO has a "workaround fix" for the issues with this BD on the BDP-83? Not trying to rehash an argument here, just trying to discern whether I should just opt for the DVD to avoid a playback issue...
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post #39711 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 04:22 PM
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^ No, the DTS-HD MA 7.1 track on Godzilla triggers a decoding bug in the 83 -- a case of DTS changing the original spec after the fact, rather than studio malfeasance. The symptom is corruption in some of the more dynamic passages -- not always repeatable -- when the 83 is asked to do the decoding. The workaround is to use HDMI Bitstream output so your AVR does the decoding. If for some reason you CAN'T use HDMI Bitstream output, the alternative workaround is to set Secondary Audio ON in the OPPO 83. A typical example is at the point of the first nuclear weapon detonation during the opening credits.

That said, I consider "Godzilla" to be the current poster-child for the "LOUDER is better" school of shoddy filmmaking. That's just my opinion, and you shouldn't let it diminish your enjoyment of plus-sized monsters traipsing around egregious plot holes, if that's your cup of tea.
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post #39712 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 04:26 PM
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So as I wait until the 11th to be able to rent X-Men: Days of Future Past, has it come down to just waiting to see if OPPO has a "workaround fix" for the issues with this BD on the BDP-83? Not trying to rehash an argument here, just trying to discern whether I should just opt for the DVD to avoid a playback issue...
We don't yet know whether the rental version of this flick will be a "Rental Special" -- i.e., with limited features and thus, different authoring. If so, it is POSSIBLE the rental Blu-ray may play without problems.

These days studios use multiple authoring houses to cobble together different releases of the same title, and it is not at all uncommon to find problems limited to the output of just one authoring house.

If you don't want to chance it, wait until the first reports come in before you rent.
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post #39713 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
OPPO (with substantial assistance from MediaTek) now has a handle on why X-Men: DOFP will not play. In brief FOX screwed up, but in a way that only gets caught by decoders which strictly enforce the standard as written -- such as the older MediaTek decoder in the 83, which was built at a time when strict adherence to the rules was what the industry was asking for. And yes, it all has to do with FOX's latest, cunning new scheme for copy protection.

The rule they broke is not strictly enforced by newer decoders, including newer decoders from MediaTek such as are found in the 9x and 10x players.

Next step is to see if OPPO can come up with a workaround which doesn't put other disc playback at risk. No promises, but knowing what needs to be fixed is certainly a leg up.

Again, this would never have happened if FOX had paid more attention to authoring within the spec as written (i.e., authoring for customer satisfaction), instead of charging off willy-nilly after their latest, copy protection chimera.
--Bob

Not to bring up the format war, but the 3 usual suspects who were the hard supporters of Blu ray were Sony, Disney, and Fox, said HD DVD was not secure enough.. I remember all the bad things they said about Microsofts HDX that was used by HD DVD.
Even Steve Jobs, who was on the board of Disney Corp at the time, condemned HD DVD saying it was not secure enough. Ironically after the format war ended he ended up proclaiming that Blu ray was a bag of hurt.
So here we are today and the three usual suspects are breaking their own standards that they created. Go figure.


Thanks for the detailed update Bob, it is much appreciated.

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post #39714 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 05:17 PM
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^ Secure enough? In what way, like copy protection?
There is no Blu-ray ever released that can't be easily copied. The pirates are a lot smarter that the the coders trying to thwart them.
The only REAL disadvantage that Blu-ray or HD DVD had from one another, was who had the most money to buy out the votes,
and that was Sony and the BDA. Now look at Sony struggling to even stay afloat in the a/v industry without going bankrupt.
I bet they wish they had some of the money back now.

As for X-men: DoFP, I got that one from my local rental store a couple days ago and it didn't say "rental" on the disc.
Although the disc didn't have any special features on it, I'm not sure if that is the same way the retail version is or not.
It did have the lossless audio soundtrack. I didn't use a BDP-83 to test it though so I can't verify if there is any issue there.
To me it looked like the retail disc, with the extra features most likely being on a 2nd disc.
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post #39715 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 05:26 PM
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^ So far, X-Men: DOFP is out there in at least 10 different configurations according to Blu-ray.com. 6 of them with 3D and 4 with just 2D.

The "normal" 2D retail version comes with a fairly substantial list of HD Extras included on the feature disc:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/X-Men-.../72503/#Review

So if you got a disc with no Extras, it is either culled from one of the multi-disc packages, or (more likely) it is a Rental Special.
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post #39716 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 05:30 PM
 
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^ No, the DTS-HD MA 7.1 track on Godzilla triggers a decoding bug in the 83 -- a case of DTS changing the original spec after the fact, rather than studio malfeasance. The symptom is corruption in some of the more dynamic passages -- not always repeatable -- when the 83 is asked to do the decoding. The workaround is to use HDMI Bitstream output so your AVR does the decoding. If for some reason you CAN'T use HDMI Bitstream output, the alternative workaround is to set Secondary Audio ON in the OPPO 83. A typical example is at the point of the first nuclear weapon detonation during the opening credits.

That said, I consider "Godzilla" to be the current poster-child for the "LOUDER is better" school of shoddy filmmaking. That's just my opinion, and you shouldn't let it diminish your enjoyment of plus-sized monsters traipsing around egregious plot holes, if that's your cup of tea.
--Bob

Bob,


Thank you for sharing this information; indeed, my BDP-83 is set to bitstream all data -- from DVD and Blu-ray -- via HDMI so my Onkyo AVR decodes it. I wasn't aware this happened with this track when being decoded internally by the OPPO. There are no worries about this if the audio is being transferred via bitstream?


As for Godzilla as a film, I chuckled out loud a bit when I read your comments; I agree in many aspects because this could have been so much better...however, what we got was far better than Roland Emmerich's efforts (did you know he's releasing an Independence Day 2?) in 1998 or '99 when he and his crew made our poor, misunderstood monster look like the T-Rex in Spielberg's original Jurassic Park. That said, there was a lot wrong with this new variant of Godzilla, though I do think they finally got his look, iconic roar and fire breath down for a modern interpretation very well. The acting, specifically when it came to the normally formidable Ken Wanatabe, was wooden at best and I hope Taylor and Olsen do better in their performances in next summer's Avengers sequel than in this...


Still -- this was harmless fun and after seeing it theatrically on opening night on my birthday (May 16 in the U.S.), we decided it was worth a Blu-ray purchase (my wife actually liked it more than I did, and she's not normally into sci-fi of this nature unless it's something like Divergent )...
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post #39717 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 05:31 PM
 
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We don't yet know whether the rental version of this flick will be a "Rental Special" -- i.e., with limited features and thus, different authoring. If so, it is POSSIBLE the rental Blu-ray may play without problems.

These days studios use multiple authoring houses to cobble together different releases of the same title, and it is not at all uncommon to find problems limited to the output of just one authoring house.

If you don't want to chance it, wait until the first reports come in before you rent.
--Bob

I see...


Again, thank you Bob -- I suppose it would only be a waste of a buck and change if the rental copy doesn't play; I could always return it the next day for the DVD...no biggie.
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post #39718 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 05:33 PM
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Bob,
. . . .
Thank you for sharing this information; indeed, my BDP-83 is set to bitstream all data -- from DVD and Blu-ray -- via HDMI so my Onkyo AVR decodes it. I wasn't aware this happened with this track when being decoded internally by the OPPO. There are no worries about this if the audio is being transferred via bitstream?
. . . .
Correct. No problem with HDMI Bitstream output. By the by, this "bug" affects many players, most newer than the 83, and Bitstream output is the fix for every one of them. One particularly fun example is a popular Sony player. Why fun? Because the disc that first exhibited this problem was also a Sony disc.
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post #39719 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 05:35 PM
 
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Correct. No problem with HDMI Bitstream output. By the by, this "bug" affects many players, most newer than the 83, and Bitstream output is the fix for every one of them. One particularly fun example is a popular Sony player. Why fun? Because the disc that first exhibited this problem was also a Sony disc.
--Bob

Interesting, though not particularly surprising because it's Sony...you know, one of the major movers and shakers actually behind the Blu-ray format...
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post #39720 of 41487 Old 11-03-2014, 06:04 PM
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^ Secure enough? In what way, like copy protection?
There is no Blu-ray ever released that can't be easily copied. The pirates are a lot smarter that the the coders trying to thwart them.
The only REAL disadvantage that Blu-ray or HD DVD had from one another, was who had the most money to buy out the votes,
and that was Sony and the BDA. Now look at Sony struggling to even stay afloat in the a/v industry without going bankrupt.
I bet they wish they had some of the money back now.

As for X-men: DoFP, I got that one from my local rental store a couple days ago and it didn't say "rental" on the disc.
Although the disc didn't have any special features on it, I'm not sure if that is the same way the retail version is or not.
It did have the lossless audio soundtrack. I didn't use a BDP-83 to test it though so I can't verify if there is any issue there.
To me it looked like the retail disc, with the extra features most likely being on a 2nd disc.

Yes, copy protection, the old everybody is stealing my stuff.


I think it was 2 or 3 falls ago, there was a whole slew of Fox titles that would not play, Aliens Quadrilogy, Sound of Music, etc. They even encrypted the BD Live material.


I wish I had my money back from that ordeal. That event made me go from an early adopter to a to late adopter. I can not win either way. Now I end up getting devices right end the end of their run and get left behind. I got the OPPO 83 a month before they released the 93 and got a TiVo Premiere about 5 weeks before the Roamios were released. Damned if you do Damned if you don't.

"You lose it in here you're in a world of hurt"
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