Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 815 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 10201Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #24421 of 25731 Old 02-20-2017, 01:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kokishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,059
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1230 Post(s)
Liked: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
The path of least resistance is to just convert the files to 24/88 FLAC. You won't hear any difference, and its likely that your processor does the same thing anyway. (it has to in order to apply any processing)
I took your advice and converted a stereo dsf file to 24/88 flac using foobar2000. Seems ok.

I recall reading somewhere that there may be some issue converting a multichannel dsf file to flac with respect to the .1 LFE channel. Something to do with the LFE channel requiring +10dB compensation adjustment. Please advise.

Denon AVR-X6200W, Outlaw Audio 7125 Amp, Oppo UDP-203, Oppo BDP-103, Amazon Fire TV Stick, Tivo Roamio Pro, Pioneer Elite Andrew Jones Dolby Atmos Enabled EFS-73 Fronts/EBS-73 Surrounds, Chane A2.4 Center, SVS SB-2000 Sub, Panasonic Plasma TH-58PX600
avsforum Members Atmos & Auro Configuration Spreadsheet
I'm just a caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me. RIP Phil Hartman
kokishin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24422 of 25731 Old 02-20-2017, 02:53 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 21,577
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3776 Post(s)
Liked: 2977
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
I took your advice and converted a stereo dsf file to 24/88 flac using foobar2000. Seems ok.

I recall reading somewhere that there may be some issue converting a multichannel dsf file to flac with respect to the .1 LFE channel. Something to do with the LFE channel requiring +10dB compensation adjustment. Please advise.
That's up to your processor. Most will do the 10db boost to any LFE channel input. Shouldn't be too difficult to hear one way or the other. But that boost happens in the processor.
rdgrimes is offline  
post #24423 of 25731 Old 02-20-2017, 03:41 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 35,205
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5783 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
I took your advice and converted a stereo dsf file to 24/88 flac using foobar2000. Seems ok.

I recall reading somewhere that there may be some issue converting a multichannel dsf file to flac with respect to the .1 LFE channel. Something to do with the LFE channel requiring +10dB compensation adjustment. Please advise.
Sony's design for SACD uses the LFE channel differently from everybody else.

Everybody else uses the LFE channel as a place to hold *LOUD* bass. So the content in that channel is recorded -10dB down and has to be boosted +10dB on playback to restore it to the level it should be at compared to the other speaker channels. AVRs, for example, almost universally add +10dB boost to the channel by default.

But SACD (as Sony designed it) does not do that. SACD records LFE without that -10dB attenuation. So if +10dB boost is applied during listening that channel will be too hot.

Now, when playing DSD digital audio content, whatever is processing that can make a guess (almost certainly correct) that this came from an SACD and apply -10dB attenuation to that LFE channel so that a subsequent, default, +10dB boost will leave things "correct".

But when you convert the DSD digital audio to another digital audio format, like LPCM, that provenance is lost. So the AVR, for example can't know not to provide the +10dB boost.

Ideally then, whatever is doing the CONVERSION from DSD to something else should apply -10dB attenuation to the LFE channels AS PART OF that conversion. In your case, that means the tool you are using to produce those FLAC files.

You'll have to ask people familiar with the tool whether it does that by default, or can be set to do that.

----------------------------------

This is such an ungodly can of worms that studios have taken countermeasures. Many Studios author their 5.1 SACD content so that there IS NO AUDIO in the .1 channel. I.e, it is really 5.0 authoring packaged as 5.1. *ALL* the bass is authored into the main speaker channels.

Some older SACDs, on the other hand, took the approach that, Sony notwithstanding, they were going to author 5.1 SACD content including the -10dB attenuation of the .1 channel as part of the authoring. I.e., the same thing EVERY OTHER FORMAT was doing with that .1 channel. These are, of course, truly problematic recordings today since the fixes built into the conversion algorithms in modern gear will now attenuate that channel yet ANOTHER -10dB.

Having fun yet?
--Bob

Need personal consultation/training? Or just curious about my Blog? Check out my web site!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24424 of 25731 Old 02-22-2017, 07:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Philnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Sony's design for SACD uses the LFE channel differently from everybody else.

Everybody else uses the LFE channel as a place to hold *LOUD* bass. So the content in that channel is recorded -10dB down and has to be boosted +10dB on playback to restore it to the level it should be at compared to the other speaker channels. AVRs, for example, almost universally add +10dB boost to the channel by default.

But SACD (as Sony designed it) does not do that. SACD records LFE without that -10dB attenuation. So if +10dB boost is applied during listening that channel will be too hot.

Now, when playing DSD digital audio content, whatever is processing that can make a guess (almost certainly correct) that this came from an SACD and apply -10dB attenuation to that LFE channel so that a subsequent, default, +10dB boost will leave things "correct".

But when you convert the DSD digital audio to another digital audio format, like LPCM, that provenance is lost. So the AVR, for example can't know not to provide the +10dB boost.

Ideally then, whatever is doing the CONVERSION from DSD to something else should apply -10dB attenuation to the LFE channels AS PART OF that conversion. In your case, that means the tool you are using to produce those FLAC files.

You'll have to ask people familiar with the tool whether it does that by default, or can be set to do that.

----------------------------------

This is such an ungodly can of worms that studios have taken countermeasures. Many Studios author their 5.1 SACD content so that there IS NO AUDIO in the .1 channel. I.e, it is really 5.0 authoring packaged as 5.1. *ALL* the bass is authored into the main speaker channels.

Some older SACDs, on the other hand, took the approach that, Sony notwithstanding, they were going to author 5.1 SACD content including the -10dB attenuation of the .1 channel as part of the authoring. I.e., the same thing EVERY OTHER FORMAT was doing with that .1 channel. These are, of course, truly problematic recordings today since the fixes built into the conversion algorithms in modern gear will now attenuate that channel yet ANOTHER -10dB.

Having fun yet?
--Bob
Last night I posted about this in the forum of the guy who wrote the Foobar2000 SACD plugins, suggesting adding a switchable 10db cut for the .1 channel, and he replied that he could do that. My experiment with converting the pure stereo SACD (no multichannel, no CD compatibility layer) classic jazz album Mingus Ah Um first ripping it to DSD with the Oppo and then converting it to FLAC with Foobar worked, so I'll convert the stereo versions on my 43 SACD sets, and will convert the multichannel tracks on about half of them when he tells me that he's added that switch.

It will be great to unlock that music to be able to listen to it anywhere with my BubbleUPnP internet-enabled hifi jukebox! A side-by-side comparison of one of the tracks from Mingus Ah Um showed that even on a portable headset the difference in clarity was night and day - the Redbook CD version sounded "muddy" by comparison.

Philnick is offline  
post #24425 of 25731 Old 02-22-2017, 08:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PSBMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto,Canada
Posts: 1,122
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Tidal via oppo

Does anyone know if I'm using the oppo app on my iphone to stream Tidal through the 103, am I getting lossless audio or is it compressed like apple air play ?

Sony 75XBR940E
ATV4K
Sony UBP-X700
Sony HT-ST5000 sound bar
PSBMAN is offline  
post #24426 of 25731 Old 02-22-2017, 09:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kokishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,059
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1230 Post(s)
Liked: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post
Last night I posted about this in the forum of the guy who wrote the Foobar2000 SACD plugins, suggesting adding a switchable 10db cut for the .1 channel, and he replied that he could do that. My experiment with converting the pure stereo SACD (no multichannel, no CD compatibility layer) classic jazz album Mingus Ah Um first ripping it to DSD with the Oppo and then converting it to FLAC with Foobar worked, so I'll convert the stereo versions on my 43 SACD sets, and will convert the multichannel tracks on about half of them when he tells me that he's added that switch.

It will be great to unlock that music to be able to listen to it anywhere with my BubbleUPnP internet-enabled hifi jukebox! A side-by-side comparison of one of the tracks from Mingus Ah Um showed that even on a portable headset the difference in clarity was night and day - the Redbook CD version sounded "muddy" by comparison.
That's good news. Thanks for reaching out to the author of the foobar2000 SACD plug-in. And thanks to him of course.

As I previously posted, I ripped stereo dsf to flac using foobar2000 SACD and flac plug-ins. Sounded ok.

I have an old Pioneer Elite DV58-AV which plays SACD discs (and DVD-Audio, CD, and DVD. No USB nor networking.). I have an Oppo 103 which I used to create an iso which I converted to dsf on my PC. I put the stereo SACD disc into the DV58 and streamed the same stereo flac converted tunes using the 103. I set the volume for both units to be ~ the same. Switching back and forth between the SACD and the flac, I could not notice any discernible difference.

I've already ripped the multichannel layer of Carole King's Tapestry from SACD to dsf and converted it to flac but have not done the listening comparison test yet. When foobar2000 SACD plug-in has the LFE -10db option, i'll convert the multichannel dsf to flac using -10db option and perfrom the listening test on both versions of the flac.

@Philnick I'm new to foobar2000 having downloading it and installing various plug-ins ~ 2 weeks ago. Which forum did you converse with the author of foorbar2000 SACD plug-in?

Denon AVR-X6200W, Outlaw Audio 7125 Amp, Oppo UDP-203, Oppo BDP-103, Amazon Fire TV Stick, Tivo Roamio Pro, Pioneer Elite Andrew Jones Dolby Atmos Enabled EFS-73 Fronts/EBS-73 Surrounds, Chane A2.4 Center, SVS SB-2000 Sub, Panasonic Plasma TH-58PX600
avsforum Members Atmos & Auro Configuration Spreadsheet
I'm just a caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me. RIP Phil Hartman

Last edited by kokishin; 02-22-2017 at 09:09 AM.
kokishin is offline  
post #24427 of 25731 Old 02-22-2017, 09:14 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 35,205
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5783 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSBMAN View Post
Does anyone know if I'm using the oppo app on my iphone to stream Tidal through the 103, am I getting lossless audio or is it compressed like apple air play ?
If you are subscribed with Tidal for their HiFi level of service, you will get HiFi streaming to the OPPO -- the equivalent of uncompressed CD rates.

Check your Account settings in the Tidal portion of the MediaControl app and make sure that HiFi is enabled.

You should also see a HiFi indicator on the Now Playing page of the app while streaming Tidal. This shows the last step is working -- i.e., the Tidal stuff thinks you have enough network bandwidth to actually send you the HiFi stream.

Note that when streaming Tidal using OPPO's MediaControl app for iOS or Android, the network stream is going direct to the OPPO. It is not passing through your iOS or Android device.
--Bob

Need personal consultation/training? Or just curious about my Blog? Check out my web site!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #24428 of 25731 Old 02-22-2017, 09:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PSBMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto,Canada
Posts: 1,122
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
If you are subscribed with Tidal for their HiFi level of service, you will get HiFi streaming to the OPPO -- the equivalent of uncompressed CD rates.

Check your Account settings in the Tidal portion of the MediaControl app and make sure that HiFi is enabled.

You should also see a HiFi indicator on the Now Playing page of the app while streaming Tidal. This shows the last step is working -- i.e., the Tidal stuff thinks you have enough network bandwidth to actually send you the HiFi stream.

Note that when streaming Tidal using OPPO's MediaControl app for iOS or Android, the network stream is going direct to the OPPO. It is not passing through your iOS or Android device.
--Bob
Thanks Bob. Good to know. I know Apple Air Play compresses the audio, so I was looking for a new way to stream it.

Sony 75XBR940E
ATV4K
Sony UBP-X700
Sony HT-ST5000 sound bar
PSBMAN is offline  
post #24429 of 25731 Old 02-22-2017, 07:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Philnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
That's good news. Thanks for reaching out to the author of the foobar2000 SACD plug-in. And thanks to him of course.

As I previously posted, I ripped stereo dsf to flac using foobar2000 SACD and flac plug-ins. Sounded ok.

I have an old Pioneer Elite DV58-AV which plays SACD discs (and DVD-Audio, CD, and DVD. No USB nor networking.). I have an Oppo 103 which I used to create an iso which I converted to dsf on my PC. I put the stereo SACD disc into the DV58 and streamed the same stereo flac converted tunes using the 103. I set the volume for both units to be ~ the same. Switching back and forth between the SACD and the flac, I could not notice any discernible difference.

I've already ripped the multichannel layer of Carole King's Tapestry from SACD to dsf and converted it to flac but have not done the listening comparison test yet. When foobar2000 SACD plug-in has the LFE -10db option, i'll convert the multichannel dsf to flac using -10db option and perfrom the listening test on both versions of the flac.

@Philnick I'm new to foobar2000 having downloading it and installing various plug-ins ~ 2 weeks ago. Which forum did you converse with the author of foorbar2000 SACD plug-in?
Believe it or not, he had the revised version of his plugin ready for me today, and it worked perfectly! He has a Sourceforge.net site Super Audio CD Decoder which is where you can find the new version - it's version 1.0.6. You can converse with him in his general discussion thread. However, you can also find his direct email address on the info screen you get if you click on his plugin inside of foobar.

I did find that the FLAC rip was not as loud as the original SACD, but the relative channel balance was the same. I suspect that the difference in volume - both were played by the 103 to my AVR as LPCM - was that since SACDs are typically mastered quieter to allow for headroom, players boost SACD playback to match other formats' level. With a FLAC as input, just like it doesn't know it's from an SACD and not to attenuate the .1 channel, it also doesn't decide that needs to be boosted. Since I always adjust playback volume manually anyway, this isn't a problem for me.

I didn't make an ISO - the ripping instructions I got had me use a java applet to control the process, and it writes the rip out as individual files. I used the default choice of "Phillips DSDIFF" which wrote .dff files. On my multichannel disk, I had to do two passes: once set to multichannel and once set to dual for the stereo tracks.

In foobar I used file open to navigate to the folder and highlighted the desired tracks. Once they were on the list inside foobar, I did a right-click and chose Convert and then Quick Convert. (If you want to go directly to FLAC you should install the Free Encoder Pack for foobar, which contains a version of FLAC which allows very large files.) Clicked on FLAC and went from there.


Last edited by Philnick; 02-23-2017 at 11:34 AM.
Philnick is offline  
post #24430 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 10:48 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Has anyone found a way to disable the Oppo loading screen that's shown between video files when playing a list of files off a HDD?
I'm using the player in a cinema setting and it'd make life so much easier.

It should probably be doable with a custom FW.
mihkelsalk is offline  
post #24431 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 02:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tornado Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,235
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 1156
Thought I'd post here to see if anyone can help. I have a 103 > Pioneer SC-61 AVR via HDMI. I received today the Roy Orbison Black & White Night 30 blu ray which was released last week on Friday Feb.24. Using the menu on start up, I select the 5.1 audio option (2 choices are stereo and Dolby TrueHD 5.1). Once the concert starts, the AVR switches from the default stereo at menu to... ProLogic II Movies instead of the Dolby TrueHD option. Checking the audio from the OPPO remote, on screen indicates it's sending Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Assume from this to have an AVR setting issue, but can't find one. I try several other BD concerts, and they all have the correct audio options when selected, be they DTS-HD Master 5.1 or Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Thoughts anyone? Thanks...

Bill P.
Tornado Red is offline  
post #24432 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 02:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PSBMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto,Canada
Posts: 1,122
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
Thought I'd post here to see if anyone can help. I have a 103 > Pioneer SC-61 AVR via HDMI. I received today the Roy Orbison Black & White Night 30 blu ray which was released last week on Friday Feb.24. Using the menu on start up, I select the 5.1 audio option (2 choices are stereo and Dolby TrueHD 5.1). Once the concert starts, the AVR switches from the default stereo at menu to... ProLogic II Movies instead of the Dolby TrueHD option. Checking the audio from the OPPO remote, on screen indicates it's sending Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Assume from this to have an AVR setting issue, but can't find one. I try several other BD concerts, and they all have the correct audio options when selected, be they DTS-HD Master 5.1 or Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Thoughts anyone? Thanks...

Bill P.
It's possible it's neither your oppo or the Pioneer.

I bet it's a bad disc encoding. I had a few Disc's on my Miami Vice Blu ray box set that had to be exchanged for updated discs that were "missing " the correct audio tracks.
Tornado Red likes this.

Sony 75XBR940E
ATV4K
Sony UBP-X700
Sony HT-ST5000 sound bar
PSBMAN is offline  
post #24433 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 02:58 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 35,205
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5783 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
Thought I'd post here to see if anyone can help. I have a 103 > Pioneer SC-61 AVR via HDMI. I received today the Roy Orbison Black & White Night 30 blu ray which was released last week on Friday Feb.24. Using the menu on start up, I select the 5.1 audio option (2 choices are stereo and Dolby TrueHD 5.1). Once the concert starts, the AVR switches from the default stereo at menu to... ProLogic II Movies instead of the Dolby TrueHD option. Checking the audio from the OPPO remote, on screen indicates it's sending Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Assume from this to have an AVR setting issue, but can't find one. I try several other BD concerts, and they all have the correct audio options when selected, be they DTS-HD Master 5.1 or Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Thoughts anyone? Thanks...

Bill P.
Switch to LPCM output and see if the 103 decodes it into LPCM 5.1 as you'd expect. The TrueHD on that disc is 96kHz and your AVR may not accept that as Bitstream, but should as LPCM.
--Bob

Need personal consultation/training? Or just curious about my Blog? Check out my web site!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #24434 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 03:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Philnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSBMAN View Post
It's possible it's neither your oppo or the Pioneer.

I bet it's a bad disc encoding. I had a few Disc's on my Miami Vice Blu ray box set that had to be exchanged for updated discs that were "missing " the correct audio tracks.

Does your AVR have the ability to show you what it's getting? My Yamaha has an Info choice on its Options button that, when you choose Audio will tell you how many channels it's getting and the sample rate. If it says it's only getting 2 channels while the Oppo says it's sending six, there's a gross inconsistency - like a 5.1 track that has information only on Left front and Right front, with the other channels silent!
Tornado Red likes this.

Philnick is offline  
post #24435 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 03:10 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 21,577
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3776 Post(s)
Liked: 2977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
Thought I'd post here to see if anyone can help. I have a 103 > Pioneer SC-61 AVR via HDMI. I received today the Roy Orbison Black & White Night 30 blu ray which was released last week on Friday Feb.24. Using the menu on start up, I select the 5.1 audio option (2 choices are stereo and Dolby TrueHD 5.1). Once the concert starts, the AVR switches from the default stereo at menu to... ProLogic II Movies instead of the Dolby TrueHD option. Checking the audio from the OPPO remote, on screen indicates it's sending Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Assume from this to have an AVR setting issue, but can't find one. I try several other BD concerts, and they all have the correct audio options when selected, be they DTS-HD Master 5.1 or Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Thoughts anyone? Thanks...

Bill P.
That disc (I have it) defaults to the stereo track, but you can switch on the fly using either the player's audio button or the discs pop-up menu.
Consult the Pioneer thread regarding what's it's doing, but the Oppo correctly displays what audio is being sent - using the OSD.
rdgrimes is offline  
post #24436 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 03:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tornado Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,235
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Switch to LPCM output and see if the 103 decodes it into LPCM 5.1 as you'd expect. The TrueHD on that disc is 96kHz and your AVR may not accept that as Bitstream, but should as LPCM.
--Bob
Thanks for the reply Bob. Yes, I get 5.1 PCM from the Pioneer when switching to PCM on the 103. Out of a few hundred blu rays, I've had this happen only once before, with the Nat King Cole HFPA. Though it's only 2.0, it gives Dolby and DTS 2.0 options which the Pioneer throws out as ProLogic II. Seems odd I'd have this issue so rarely.
Tornado Red is offline  
post #24437 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 03:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tornado Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,235
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
That disc (I have it) defaults to the stereo track, but you can switch on the fly using either the player's audio button or the discs pop-up menu.
Consult the Pioneer thread regarding what's it's doing, but the Oppo correctly displays what audio is being sent - using the OSD.
So RD, your receiver/processor is showing Dolby TrueHD when you select the 5.1 option either from the menu or on the fly with the OPPO remote? Just trying to rule out that it's the disc.
Tornado Red is offline  
post #24438 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 03:45 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 35,205
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5783 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
Thanks for the reply Bob. Yes, I get 5.1 PCM from the Pioneer when switching to PCM on the 103. Out of a few hundred blu rays, I've had this happen only once before, with the Nat King Cole HFPA. Though it's only 2.0, it gives Dolby and DTS 2.0 options which the Pioneer throws out as ProLogic II. Seems odd I'd have this issue so rarely.
If your AVR can't handle the Bitstream, then you get the "compatibility track" that's part of the required authoring of any Blu-ray disc. In this case, evidently the compatibility track included on the disc is stereo (the minimum authoring requirement).

USUALLY the compatibility track for a TrueHD 5.1 Bitstream would be traditional, lossy, DD 5.1.
--Bob

Need personal consultation/training? Or just curious about my Blog? Check out my web site!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #24439 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 03:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tornado Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,235
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
If your AVR can't handle the Bitstream, then you get the "compatibility track" that's part of the required authoring of any Blu-ray disc. In this case, evidently the compatibility track included on the disc is stereo (the minimum authoring requirement).

USUALLY the compatibility track for a TrueHD 5.1 Bitstream would be traditional, lossy, DD 5.1.
--Bob
Yes, seems very odd then. You'd think the receiver would either give me DD or stereo if it couldn't handle bitstream. One other thought, is there any chance it could be the HDMI cable? I'm running split and normally haven't had any audio issues, but any chance that an iffy cable could cause this if bitstream on this disc is trying to force through something the cable can't quite handle? I know that at times HDMI is not our friend.
Tornado Red is offline  
post #24440 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 03:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KC-Technerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liberty, MO
Posts: 1,676
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
Thought I'd post here to see if anyone can help. I have a 103 > Pioneer SC-61 AVR via HDMI. I received today the Roy Orbison Black & White Night 30 blu ray which was released last week on Friday Feb.24. Using the menu on start up, I select the 5.1 audio option (2 choices are stereo and Dolby TrueHD 5.1). Once the concert starts, the AVR switches from the default stereo at menu to... ProLogic II Movies instead of the Dolby TrueHD option. Checking the audio from the OPPO remote, on screen indicates it's sending Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Assume from this to have an AVR setting issue, but can't find one. I try several other BD concerts, and they all have the correct audio options when selected, be they DTS-HD Master 5.1 or Dolby TrueHD 5.1. Thoughts anyone? Thanks...

Bill P.
Check the "Program format indicators" on the front display of your SC-61 while playing the concert. If only [L] and [R] are lit then the SC-61 is only getting 2.0 from the BPD-103. If [L], [C], [R], [SL], [SR], and [LFE] are lit, then the SC-61 is getting the full 5.1 stream from the BDP-103.

It is possible to use Pro-Logic IIx Movie (which will then be displayed) with a 5.1 channel source to expand the 5.1 to 7.1 (assuming you have surround back speakers connected and setup). The difference between this disc and your other 5.1 channel discs may be whether the 6.1 channel flagging is authored on the disc. Under some cases this flagging will trigger the SC-61 into the Dolby Pro-Logic IIx Movie mode. I have the disc, but I'm not set up right now to test whether it contains the 6.1 channel flag. Even if not flagged for 6.1 it should still be possible to select Pro Logic IIx Movie to get simulated 7.1 from 5.1 sources including TrueHD and HD-MA.

The photos below show how the "Program format indicators" on the Pioneer show the format being received. 5.1 DTS HD-MA in the first photo, and 2.0 LPCM in the second. I took these while playing the Black & White Night BD on my BDP-103.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0748.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	39.5 KB
ID:	1998737   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0752.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	29.4 KB
ID:	1998745  

Last edited by KC-Technerd; 02-28-2017 at 04:19 PM.
KC-Technerd is offline  
post #24441 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 03:57 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 35,205
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5783 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
Yes, seems very odd then. You'd think the receiver would either give me DD or stereo if it couldn't handle bitstream. One other thought, is there any chance it could be the HDMI cable? I'm running split and normally haven't had any audio issues, but any chance that an iffy cable could cause this if bitstream on this disc is trying to force through something the cable can't quite handle?
Nothing's ever too farfetched when it comes to HDMI, but this one is unlikely.

I'm not sure what triggers PLII in your AVR. Usually it's just a choice you make of how you want stereo input to be handled. It's possible the compatibility track was coming in as DD 2.0 instead of LPCM 2.0. The compatibility track is authored into the disc, so the player and AVR have no say in that.
--Bob

Need personal consultation/training? Or just curious about my Blog? Check out my web site!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #24442 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 04:14 PM
Advanced Member
 
Vic Y's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dallas
Posts: 540
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Can you mount an ISO image and stream it through the player to take advantage of the 4K upscaling?

Probably not.....?
Vic Y is offline  
post #24443 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 04:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tornado Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,235
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
Check the "Program format indicators" on the front display of your SC-61 while playing the concert. If only [L] and [R] are lit then the SC-61 is only getting 2.0 from the BPD-103. If [L], [C], [R], [SL], [SR], and [LFE] are lit, then the SC-61 is getting the full 5.1 stream from the BDP-103.

It is possible to use Pro-Logic IIx Movie (which will then be displayed) with a 5.1 channel source to expand the 5.1 to 7.1 (assuming you have surround back speakers connected and setup). The difference between this disc and your other 5.1 channel discs may be whether the 6.1 channel flagging is authored on the disc. Under some cases this flagging will trigger the SC-61 into the Dolby Pro-Logic IIx Movie mode. I have the disc, but I'm not set up right now to test whether it contains the 6.1 channel flag. Even if not flagged for 6.1 it should still be possible to select Pro Logic IIx Movie to get simulated 7.1 from 5.1 sources including TrueHD and HD-MA.
You may be right, here is my SC-61 display while that disc plays. I'm actually running 7.2. As you can see, it's showing 6.1 on the display like you mentioned. If I leave the auto surround modes that give me pure direct, stream direct etc and go to standard surround, PLII leaves and I get Dolby True HD 5.1. Trying to remember, but I believe I'm running in Stream Direct so my subs will cut in during stereo playback. Though as I mentioned, this isn't an issue with other BDs.

Tornado Red is offline  
post #24444 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 04:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KC-Technerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liberty, MO
Posts: 1,676
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
You may be right, here is my SC-61 display while that disc plays. I'm actually running 7.2. As you can see, it's showing 6.1 on the display like you mentioned. If I leave the auto surround modes that give me pure direct, stream direct etc and go to standard surround, PLII leaves and I get Dolby True HD 5.1. Trying to remember, but I believe I'm running in Stream Direct so my subs will cut in during stereo playback. Though as I mentioned, this isn't an issue with other BDs.

The "XC" indicator is showing that your SC-61 is detecting the 6.1 channel flag. The small "True HD" indicator is showing that the SC-61 is getting a True HD stream from the Oppo.
KC-Technerd is offline  
post #24445 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 04:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tornado Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,235
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
The "XC" indicator is showing that your SC-61 is detecting the 6.1 channel flag. The small "True HD" indicator is showing that the SC-61 is getting a True HD stream from the Oppo.
Yep, I see that I'm getting TrueHD from the OPPO. Wonder why they author this with another channel? And I wonder if anyone else is having this issue?
Tornado Red is offline  
post #24446 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 04:29 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 35,205
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5783 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
^ Umm, what issue? Looks like it is working exactly as it was designed to work with your AVR's settings?
--Bob
KC-Technerd likes this.

Need personal consultation/training? Or just curious about my Blog? Check out my web site!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #24447 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 04:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KC-Technerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liberty, MO
Posts: 1,676
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
Yep, I see that I'm getting TrueHD from the OPPO. Wonder why they author this with another channel? And I wonder if anyone else is having this issue?
I just realized that you have a different disc than I do, with a TrueHD track instead of the DTS HD-MA track that mine has. Blu-ray.com doesn't yet show any audio details on the new disc. Looks like it's got some material mine doesn't. It may intentionally be encoded with a matrixed surround back channel. Occasionally a disc is incorrectly flagged. I can't find any sources that specify the audio track on the new disc.
KC-Technerd is offline  
post #24448 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 04:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tornado Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,235
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Umm, what issue? Looks like it is working exactly as it was designed to work with your AVR's settings?
--Bob
I guess what I'm saying Bob, is that I can leave the AVR settings as is, and I don't get the PL effect on other discs. As KC mentioned, my settings together with the disc flagging 6.1 the issue occurs. I guess I meant this would show itself to anybody else as well if they were set up like I am, where normally there is no PL on other discs. Should have chosen my words better.
Tornado Red is offline  
post #24449 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 04:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KC-Technerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liberty, MO
Posts: 1,676
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Liked: 199
^ I agree that it is not an "issue" but the SC-61 doing exactly what it is supposed to do. It is detecting the 6.1 channel flag in the audio stream and engaging Dolby Pro-Logic IIx to decode the matrixed audio channel for your surround back speakers.
KC-Technerd is offline  
post #24450 of 25731 Old 02-28-2017, 04:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tornado Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,235
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
I just realized that you have a different disc than I do, with a TrueHD track instead of the DTS HD-MA track that mine has. Blu-ray.com doesn't yet show any audio details on the new disc. Looks like it's got some material mine doesn't. It may intentionally be encoded with a matrixed surround back channel. Occasionally a disc is incorrectly flagged. I can't find any sources that specify the audio track on the new disc.
Ahh, you have Black & White night on blu ray from several years ago? I have that as well and it is DTS-HD Master 5.1 like you mentioned, and it runs fine. This new iteration is stamped Dolby TrueHD on the disc label, but no where else on the packaging that I can find. I notice as well that it's not up yet on blu-ray.com.
Tornado Red is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Blu-ray Players

Tags
Oppo Bdp 103 3d Blu Ray Player , Oppo Bdp 105 Blu Ray Player , Oppo Bdp 93 Blu Ray Player , Oppo Digital Inc

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off