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Bob Pariseau 11-21-2012 05:15 PM

8 Attachment(s)
The Perils of Pauline's Blu-ray Player! -- Episode 1: "Secrets Reviewed!"

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/universal-players-reviews/oppo-bdp-105-universal-player.html

Do you like a good, cliff-hanger serial? Sure! Who doesn't!

Secrets of Home Theater has decided to publish their new review of the BDP-105 in INSTALLMENTS! biggrin.gif

The start of the review is up now. Stay tuned for each new, exciting episode!
--Bob

Franchot 11-21-2012 05:26 PM

I'm on my sixth day using my 105 and I've been very pleased with its performance. I've run a lot of disc media through it and its done a stellar job. This is my third Oppo after the 980H and 83 and a steady stream of Blu-ray, HD-DVD, and DVD players over the years. The 105 is at the top of the heap except for one thing which I don't know whether can be rectified or not.

Using the headphone amp with my beloved LCD-2 and beloved Sennheiser 800 headphones I just can't get the volume to the level that I want for Blu-ray movies. I'm at 100 on the volume meter and I need more volume. Redbook CDs play loud enough (which I have at about an 85 volume), but I just want to turn on my TV and then plug into the 105 for some late night movie viewing and I'm found wanting. I know that my headphones are hard to drive, but is there any work-around or solution for me so that I can gain about 10 or 15 "clicks" on the volume meter?

(I'm not asking for much--just a 10% increase on the headphone volume smile.gif )

Thanks for any thoughts or solutions.

bsauvage 11-21-2012 05:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hikmer View Post

I should have my 105 this afternoon, I currently have a 103 and a decent outboard DAC (MSB) which I find to be better than the stock 103 (which I still think is good but not exactly my tastes). I will add my comments about the 105 and compare stock stereo RCA outputs vs my outboard DAC. Really hoping the 105 blows my old MSB DAC away so I can get rid of some equipment!
Very much looking forward to your comments!

Bob Pariseau 11-21-2012 05:32 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

I'm on my sixth day using my 105 and I've been very pleased with its performance. I've run a lot of disc media through it and its done a stellar job. This is my third Oppo after the 980H and 83 and a steady stream of Blu-ray, HD-DVD, and DVD players over the years. The 105 is at the top of the heap except for one thing which I don't know whether can be rectified or not.

Using the headphone amp with my beloved LCD-2 and beloved Sennheiser 800 headphones I just can't get the volume to the level that I want for Blu-ray movies. I'm at 100 on the volume meter and I need more volume. Redbook CDs play loud enough (which I have at about an 85 volume), but I just want to turn on my TV and then plug into the 105 for some late night movie viewing and I'm found wanting. I know that my headphones are hard to drive, but is there any work-around or solution for me so that I can gain about 10 or 15 "clicks" on the volume meter?

(I'm not asking for much--just a 10% increase on the headphone volume smile.gif )

Thanks for any thoughts or solutions.

This is almost certainly due to the attenuation arising from the down-mix of multi-channel movie audio to stereo for the Headphone output. Try selecting a Stereo audio track option from the movie disc if available.

Also, send OPPO an email. It may be possible they can adjust or even remove the attenuation due to the down mix since they audio signal path is entirely contained within the player -- i.e., no risk of clipping the input on a pre-amp.
--Bob

Donloz 11-21-2012 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesC View Post

In case you wondered why your CD's, DVD's and Blu-Ray keep falling out of the tray when you open it, well, it's because you've installed the OPPO upside down in your rack biggrin.gif
I installed my oddo the same way eek.gif,,,,is this not correct??? smile.gif

Bob Pariseau 11-21-2012 05:41 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donloz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesC View Post

In case you wondered why your CD's, DVD's and Blu-Ray keep falling out of the tray when you open it, well, it's because you've installed the OPPO upside down in your rack biggrin.gif
I installed my oddo the same way eek.gif,,,,is this not correct??? smile.gif

Good grief no! When you put your coffee cup in the cup holder (tray extended) all the coffee will leak out!

(I'm presuming, of course, that you don't have one of the new, BDP-105AU, Australian units.)
--Bob

BillP 11-21-2012 05:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You may only lose a half note when using analog, but the truncation is always there.
When HDMI is connected, the truncations are longer as the HDMI handshakes can take several seconds to stabilize, and anytime the handshake is occurring there is the possibility that the decoder will also stop outputting from the analog outputs.
Whenever possible, remove the HDMI cable when you are using analog for audio listening.
OK, I want to make sure I understand this, since I am considering the 103 and 105 (I never had an Oppo before). If I want to play my store-bought CD of Dark Side of the Moon or Abbey Road, where many tracks run into each other without a gap, using the 2-channel analog audio outs, there will be a gap in the music and loss of a note at the beginning of each track? Is this true for both the 105 and 103?

Bob Pariseau 11-21-2012 06:07 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You may only lose a half note when using analog, but the truncation is always there.
When HDMI is connected, the truncations are longer as the HDMI handshakes can take several seconds to stabilize, and anytime the handshake is occurring there is the possibility that the decoder will also stop outputting from the analog outputs.
Whenever possible, remove the HDMI cable when you are using analog for audio listening.
OK, I want to make sure I understand this, since I am considering the 103 and 105 (I never had an Oppo before). If I want to play my store-bought CD of Dark Side of the Moon or Abbey Road, where many tracks run into each other without a gap, using the 2-channel analog audio outs, there will be a gap in the music and loss of a note at the beginning of each track? Is this true for both the 105 and 103?
No.

He's talking about the brief muting that happens during the HDMI handshake when the digital audio stream commences at the start of the disc. Note that if you Track Back to restart the first track, it won't happen at that point because the digital audio stream is already established. This is all tied up with the complexity of the HDMI handshake, so anything that causes HDMI retries makes it more likely you'll encounter this -- i.e., HDMI cabling issues or issues in your AVR/Display responding to the handshake.

I.e., whatever you do to improve your HDMI performance (reduce retries) will also help eliminate this issue on music discs that start the first track instantly at time code 0. Consider setting HDMI Audio OFF if using Analog output.
--Bob

Neuromancer 11-21-2012 06:08 PM

Its the first track, or the first instance of the player playing the disc, you will hear a truncation. All subsequent tracks will have no truncations unless the source changes (like on a DVD or Blu-ray where the previews and menus are stereo, but the main film is 5.1 or 7.1 Dolby Digital/DTS).

So to repeat: There will be no truncation between tracks.

dmusoke 11-21-2012 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Some Kind Words on the BDP-105 from Dan Wright's Blog at ModWright.com
http://www.modwright.com/blog/post.php?s=2012-11-18-new-mods-oppo-bdp103-and-bdp105
--Bob

 

Preliminary Tube Mod from Dan Modwright for the 105 ...

1000


dmusoke 11-21-2012 06:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


Cool is it the same with the BDP-95?

Yes, same for the 95,93 and 103. They all have low output impedance of under 200 ohms plus very fine volume controls within their respctive DACs...


dmusoke 11-21-2012 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The Perils of Pauline's Blu-ray Player! -- Episode 1: "Secrets Reviewed!"
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/universal-players/universal-players-reviews/oppo-bdp-105-universal-player.html
Do you like a good, cliff-hanger serial? Sure! Who doesn't!
Secrets of Home Theater has decided to publish their new review of the BDP-105 in INSTALLMENTS! biggrin.gif
The start of the review is up now. Stay tuned for each new, exciting episode!
--Bob

Arrrggg!!! What a teaserbiggrin.gif!


zoomin 11-21-2012 06:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

I'm on my sixth day using my 105 and I've been very pleased with its performance. I've run a lot of disc media through it and its done a stellar job. This is my third Oppo after the 980H and 83 and a steady stream of Blu-ray, HD-DVD, and DVD players over the years. The 105 is at the top of the heap except for one thing which I don't know whether can be rectified or not.
Using the headphone amp with my beloved LCD-2 and beloved Sennheiser 800 headphones I just can't get the volume to the level that I want for Blu-ray movies. I'm at 100 on the volume meter and I need more volume. Redbook CDs play loud enough (which I have at about an 85 volume), but I just want to turn on my TV and then plug into the 105 for some late night movie viewing and I'm found wanting. I know that my headphones are hard to drive, but is there any work-around or solution for me so that I can gain about 10 or 15 "clicks" on the volume meter?
(I'm not asking for much--just a 10% increase on the headphone volume smile.gif )
Thanks for any thoughts or solutions.

Pretty sure the peeps be modding their Sennheiser cables with XLR connections and running right out of the balanced back end of the Oppo.

Check on head-fi in case I've lost it though ....

bakerwi 11-21-2012 06:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Quote:

Preliminary Tube Mod from Dan Modwright for the 105 ...

If the results of my work meet my expectations:

The 103 will be a FANTASTIC machine for ~$1K, that will perform very well for audio, both 2CH and MCH and will be improved in both its performance as a video player and a transport for feeding digital audio to a pre/processor.

The 105 will be a WORLD CLASS player AND DAC, with our tube analog stage, for < $3500 and will perform at the $10K+ range ABSOLUTELY! We may also offer an upgrade option to the SMPS that will further improve video playback! I will investigate a SS mod for the 105 that is likely 1/2 the price of the tube mods.

I wonder if he has he come across a sub $2K transport that he couldn't improve upon?

Franchot 11-21-2012 06:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Note that if you Track Back to restart the first track, it won't happen at that point because the digital audio stream is already established. This is all tied up with the complexity of the HDMI handshake, so anything that causes HDMI retries makes it more likely you'll encounter this -- i.e., HDMI cabling issues or issues in your AVR/Display responding to the handshake.
I.e., whatever you do to improve your HDMI performance (reduce retries) will also help eliminate this issue on music discs that start the first track instantly at time code 0. Consider setting HDMI Audio OFF if using Analog output.
--Bob

I have this problem with my 83, but have not experienced it at all on the 105. I also have the "Auto Play Mode" set to OFF . Might this help to alleviate the problem?

(And thanks, Bob, for your reply about the headphone volume that I asked about.)

Bob Pariseau 11-21-2012 07:04 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Note that if you Track Back to restart the first track, it won't happen at that point because the digital audio stream is already established. This is all tied up with the complexity of the HDMI handshake, so anything that causes HDMI retries makes it more likely you'll encounter this -- i.e., HDMI cabling issues or issues in your AVR/Display responding to the handshake.
I.e., whatever you do to improve your HDMI performance (reduce retries) will also help eliminate this issue on music discs that start the first track instantly at time code 0. Consider setting HDMI Audio OFF if using Analog output.
--Bob

I have this problem with my 83, but have not experienced it at all on the 105. I also have the "Auto Play Mode" set to OFF . Might this help to alleviate the problem?

(And thanks, Bob, for your reply about the headphone volume that I asked about.)

It is possible that with Auto Play ON the Display (in particular) may not be fully awake yet when the music disc initiates the HDMI handshake during the disc load on Power UP. However, that would not apply to discs you start after everything is already powered up.

So I suspect the difference you've found between the 83 and the 105 is simply that the 105 is faster.
--Bob

BillP 11-21-2012 07:59 PM

Thanks, Bob and Neuromancer, for clearing up the audio issue for me. I can keep HDMI audio from the player turned off and use analog outs to my stereo preamp for CDs, SACDs, streaming and movie discs. I only use my plasma's speakers for TV shows (from an HD-DVR).

skriefal 11-21-2012 09:09 PM

When I first installed the new beta firmware on my BDP-105 I witnessed odd behavior on the Network screen. My DLNA server and SMB server appeared... then disappeared... then re-appeared... then disappeared... over and over. I did manage to select the SMB server once when the cycle appeared to have stabilized. Selected one of my FLAC files and playback started -- then failed a few seconds later. The BDP-105 then dropped back to the Network screen where the cycle continued.

That was a few hours ago. I just tried again and things now seem to be working as expected. Fingers crossed...

Bob Pariseau 11-21-2012 09:19 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Preliminary Tube Mod from Dan Modwright for the 105 ...
By the by, the person is is "Dan Wright". The COMPANY is ModWright Instruments.
--Bob

RickS 11-21-2012 10:52 PM

Hi,
Well I got the 105 today and installed it into the rack tonight. I'm sitting listening to music CD's and am very shocked at the great improvement in the quality of music in my system. Will give it a few days burn-in. I have been using BD players mostly for home theater use but I can see going back to audio. WOW!!! smile.gif Here are a few pictures. I'm using a Denon AVR-5308CI for a pre/pro and Verastarr SS64 for bi-amping front VMPS-40 modded mains with stereo SVS PB13 Ultra's. I have a Parasound HCA-2205A for surround duties.











dmusoke 11-21-2012 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


By the by, the person is is "Dan Wright". The COMPANY is ModWright Instruments.
--Bob

My mistake indeed ... I talked to him and he said he plans to improve the power of the headphone amplifier, giving it more output power as well as benefiting from the tube sounds.


Bob Pariseau 11-21-2012 11:09 PM

8 Attachment(s)
RickS,
Thanks for including the nice photos of OPPO's new Rack Mount Kit for the BDP-105!
--Bob

dmusoke 11-21-2012 11:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS View Post

Hi,
Well I got the 105 today and installed it into the rack tonight. I'm sitting listening to music CD's and am very shocked at the great improvement in the quality of music in my system. Will give it a few days burn-in. I have been using BD players mostly for home theater use but I can see going back to audio. WOW!!! smile.gif Here are a few pictures. I'm using a Denon AVR-5308CI for a pre/pro and Verastarr SS64 for bi-amping front VMPS-40 modded mains with stereo SVS PB13 Ultra's. I have a Parasound HCA-2205A for surround duties.

 

Does the rack mount kit make the 105 a full 3U height unit?


RickS 11-21-2012 11:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Does the rack mount kit make the 105 a full 3U height unit?

Yes, a full 3U. Please see instuctions below. smile.gif


dmusoke 11-21-2012 11:44 PM

^ Thanks RickS ...relieved and glad to know i'll sacrifice one extra 1U slot in my tight rack.


luismanrara 11-22-2012 12:28 AM

Well, I received my 105 today and I'm impressed with its built quality but not with its glitchy showing though. It struggled with direct tv when changing channels and at times would freeze for a long while and I had to turn the unit off to get it to work, I'm using the 7.1 analog out which sounds impressive but the unit would not always respond to the volume command and at times it would go up all at once with a delayed response to the commands, and now when I tried to trim each channel for movie viewing, the unit refuses to do it, even though the numbers go up and down, the volume for each channel stay the same. Not a strong showing for a first night. I wonder if there's something I could do to remedy the symptoms?

dmusoke 11-22-2012 02:12 AM

Please forgive my cluelessness but I'm really  puzzled as to why folks would connect their cable or sat boxes into the 105 HDMI inputs. Is their AVR or sat_box upscaling/de-interlacing performance so bad that they must use the Oppo instead???  Now to watch TV, you must first turn on TV, then bluray player, then AVRconfused.gif???. Most newer satelite and cable boxes(past 5 years at least) actually have rather excellent scaling and de-interlacing chips(Broadcom BCM 74xx series). In my MOXI HD box, i tell it to output only 720p & 1080i video streams. 480i streams from SD channels are automatically upscaled to 1080i by default. I feed the Moxi output into my Anthem D2v which upscales everything to 1080p and the visual results are excellent especially on well recorded programs such as the 700 Club and many others. Yes, badly recorded programs still remain bad  but that is the fault of heavy compression (and re-compression) by the sat/cable providers. Actually the TV networks produce a high quality stream but it is re-compressed like heck by the service companies so that they may cram more channels into their pipe,

 

Obviously, I must be missing something here so i hope to be schooled(gently ofcoursetongue.gif) by those who use the Oppo like this.

 

Happy and blessed Thanksgiving to all Oppo-itessmile.gif!

 

- David


thorix 11-22-2012 04:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsauvage View Post

I am the happy owner since its release of a BDP-83, then upgraded ingto 83SE. I eagerly consider the purchase of BDP-105 to add streaming capability lacking in 83SE (very limited file compatibility). But I'm really curious about the quality of stereo sound (through balanced XLR) compared to that of the 83SE, any comments?
As I look at some pretty upscale audio equipment and consider Lynn Akurate DS plugged into an external DAC like Berkeley Alpha DAC 2.
I wonder if using the oppo as a streamer connected to the Berkeley DAC would give the same sound quality as with the Lynn? (or whether the oppo by itself is soulding close enough?)
And can anybody comment on the audible difference between the 105 and the combination 103 + a very high quality DAC?
FYI I use Belcanto Prepro preamp, amp Belcanto evo6, speakers piega P4MKII, and Nordost red dawn cables in between.
Thank you in advance for your thoughts!
I had the chance to compare the 95 with a few players.
I would rate the Linn Akurate DS best with a 10. 2nd and very close was an Audionet CD player (german high end brand) with a9.5; 3rd Linn Majik DS 8pts; 4th Naim Nd5 XS 7pts; 5th Oppo 95 with 5pts; 6th Marantz 7001KI 3 pts; 7th Marantz Sr9600 DAC 2pts. Overall all tested equipment was very good and I believe that if you do not directly compare; it is hard to find out what is what. I would be very interested where the 105 fits into this list. Hopefully it closes the gap to the Linn DS'S

bsauvage 11-22-2012 06:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorix View Post

I had the chance to compare the 95 with a few players.
I would rate the Linn Akurate DS best with a 10. 2nd and very close was an Audionet CD player (german high end brand) with a9.5; 3rd Linn Majik DS 8pts; 4th Naim Nd5 XS 7pts; 5th Oppo 95 with 5pts; 6th Marantz 7001KI 3 pts; 7th Marantz Sr9600 DAC 2pts. Overall all tested equipment was very good and I believe that if you do not directly compare; it is hard to find out what is what. I would be very interested where the :cool:105 fits into this list. Hopefully it closes the gap to the Linn DS'S
Thank you very much for your inputs. I would say this is pretty much what I expected, with the added benefit of your part mentioning "if it were put next to each other it would be hard to discern"... unfortunately that's for me the biggest challenge in very high end audio and that's why I genuinely believe finding the right price point considering all factors including your room size, wall/floor materials and soundproofing quality is paramount.
All things considered the Oppo at that price seems like a fantastic challenger and I believe if it beats the Naim then I have a winner.
(notwithstanding the fact that if I connect the 95 with a DAC I may have a system better sounding than the Linn Akurate...)

thorix 11-22-2012 06:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsauvage View Post

Thank you very much for your inputs. I would say this is pretty much what I expected, with the added benefit of your part mentioning "if it were put next to each other it would be hard to discern"... unfortunately that's for me the biggest challenge in very high end audio and that's why I genuinely believe finding the right price point considering all factors including your room size, wall/floor materials and soundproofing quality is paramount.
All things considered the Oppo at that price seems like a fantastic challenger and I believe if it beats the Naim then I have a winner.
(notwithstanding the fact that if I connect the 95 with a DAC I may have a system better sounding than the Linn Akurate...)
I think it'll be difficult to beat the Akurate. However in my view the LP12 sounded better which I dislike a lot. Analog is not where I want to go. Actually I meant that you can differentiate only if you have the players in an A and B comparison. If you would listen to one and you have to say what it was without a direct reference you would be wrong most of the time.

gsr 11-22-2012 07:13 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

^ Thanks RickS ...relieved and glad to know i'll sacrifice one extra 1U slot in my tight rack.
The 105 is 2.5 rack spaces tall without the rack mount kit. The kit just fills in the extra .5 space.

sac8d4 11-22-2012 07:59 AM

I know many of you are still wanting feedback on the BDP-105 vs BDP-95, as with every other OPPO i have owned in the past ( DV-981HD to DV-983H, BDP- 83 to BDP-83 SE Nuforce Edition, BDP-95 to BDP-105), Oppo has found away to make improve upon their previous players. Only referring to (analog) audio quality,the margin of improvement is less and less with each Oppo product. Now on to the specific audio qualities of the BDP-105....As various others have reported, the bass does appear to be improved over the BDP-105. To my ears the bass could be described as less "boomy", which makes it seem that that Oppo was able to dig down and reproduce a few octaves lower compared to previous Oppo products. Additionally, the upper octaves seem to have more energy on top. I know many will read this and will think, Bdp-105 is "bright" sounding, but that is an inaccurate description. For those of you that are concerned with the lack of DAC stacking in the design of the BDP-105, this isn't something you will even notice sonically. In fact, I would say that the improved analog path has helped with the sound of this machine. Conservatively, I would quantify the amount as 0%-5% increase in sound over the BDP-95. (I am only referring to the discrete stereo connections, XLR and RCA) Those of you that are on the fence and simply want to purchase a universal player that sounds leaps and bounds better than the previous flagship Oppo player, this may not be the player for you. However, this the best sounding Oppo player to date and has so many important features on the audio side of the house(such as the use of this player as a DMP and USB Asynchronous DAC), that is what sets this player apart from other universal players on the market as well as other Oppo players.

luismanrara 11-22-2012 09:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Please forgive my cluelessness but I'm really  puzzled as to why folks would connect their cable or sat boxes into the 105 HDMI inputs. Is their AVR or sat_box upscaling/de-interlacing performance so bad that they must use the Oppo instead???  Now to watch TV, you must first turn on TV, then bluray player, then AVR:confused: ???. Most newer satelite and cable boxes(past 5 years at least) actually have rather excellent scaling and de-interlacing chips(Broadcom BCM 74xx series). In my MOXI HD box, i tell it to output only 720p & 1080i video streams. 480i streams from SD channels are automatically upscaled to 1080i by default. I feed the Moxi output into my Anthem D2v which upscales everything to 1080p and the visual results are excellent especially on well recorded programs such as the 700 Club and many others. Yes, badly recorded programs still remain bad  but that is the fault of heavy compression (and re-compression) by the sat/cable providers. Actually the TV networks produce a high quality stream but it is re-compressed like heck by the service companies so that they may cram more channels into their pipe,

Obviously, I must be missing something here so i hope to be schooled(gently ofcourse:p ) by those who use the Oppo like this.

Happy and blessed Thanksgiving to all Oppo-ites:) !

- David

I don't have an HDMI capable set up (receiver) so I'm using the Oppo as such, gentle enough?tongue.gif by the way I disconnected the Oppo for half an hour and cleaned the memory and all seems to be working including the trimming feature, hoping it continues to perform.

Torqdog 11-22-2012 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sac8d4 View Post

I know many of you are still wanting feedback on the BDP-105 vs BDP-95, as with every other OPPO i have owned in the past ( DV-981HD to DV-983H, BDP- 83 to BDP-83 SE Nuforce Edition, BDP-95 to BDP-105), Oppo has found away to make improve upon their previous players. Only referring to (analog) audio quality,the margin of improvement is less and less with each Oppo product. Now on to the specific audio qualities of the BDP-105....As various others have reported, the bass does appear to be improved over the BDP-105. To my ears the bass could be described as less "boomy", which makes it seem that that Oppo was able to dig down and reproduce a few octaves lower compared to previous Oppo products. Additionally, the upper octaves seem to have more energy on top. I know many will read this and will think, Bdp-105 is "bright" sounding, but that is an inaccurate description. For those of you that are concerned with the lack of DAC stacking in the design of the BDP-105, this isn't something you will even notice sonically. In fact, I would say that the improved analog path has helped with the sound of this machine. Conservatively, I would quantify the amount as 0%-5% increase in sound over the BDP-95. (I am only referring to the discrete stereo connections, XLR and RCA) Those of you that are on the fence and simply want to purchase a universal player that sounds leaps and bounds better than the previous flagship Oppo player, this may not be the player for you. However, this the best sounding Oppo player to date and has so many important features on the audio side of the house(such as the use of this player as a DMP and USB Asynchronous DAC), that is what sets this player apart from other universal players on the market as well as other Oppo players.
That doesn't equate to much improvement at all with "0%" being zilch. I guess it is re-assuring to know that the 105 DOES sound as good if not slightly better without the "benefit" of dedicated L/R channel dac stacking.

Thanks for the review. smile.gif

zoomin 11-22-2012 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Please forgive my cluelessness but I'm really  puzzled as to why folks would connect their cable or sat boxes into the 105 HDMI inputs. Is their AVR or sat_box upscaling/de-interlacing performance so bad that they must use the Oppo instead???  Now to watch TV, you must first turn on TV, then bluray player, then AVR:confused: ???. Most newer satelite and cable boxes(past 5 years at least) actually have rather excellent scaling and de-interlacing chips(Broadcom BCM 74xx series). In my MOXI HD box, i tell it to output only 720p & 1080i video streams. 480i streams from SD channels are automatically upscaled to 1080i by default. I feed the Moxi output into my Anthem D2v which upscales everything to 1080p and the visual results are excellent especially on well recorded programs such as the 700 Club and many others. Yes, badly recorded programs still remain bad  but that is the fault of heavy compression (and re-compression) by the sat/cable providers. Actually the TV networks produce a high quality stream but it is re-compressed like heck by the service companies so that they may cram more channels into their pipe,

Obviously, I must be missing something here so i hope to be schooled(gently ofcourse:p ) by those who use the Oppo like this.

Happy and blessed Thanksgiving to all Oppo-ites:) !

- David

In my case I'd like to get the AV Receiver/Processor out of the mix entirely - the 105 is allowing me to do that.

HDMI from my cable box goes into the HDMI input on the back of the 105.

My old processor (Arcam AVP700) was nice sonically but didn't do any upscaling of video - it just had HDMI switching/passthrough capabilites.

To play records I might shim an analog pre-amp with Hometheatre passthrough into the mix at some point.

Sharp1080 11-22-2012 10:34 AM

I have a strange audio glitch again! I really like this player even though the little quirks are driving me crazy at times. My latest glitch is when playing a CD I get output thru the XLR but is intermittent thru the HDMI 2 split A/V into my Classe processor. When I play a Blu Ray disc the audio output seems to be fine. I did try the factory supplied HDMI cable with the same effect.

Brian-HD 11-22-2012 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

That doesn't equate to much improvement at all with "0%" being zilch. I guess it is re-assuring to know that the 105 DOES sound as good if not slightly better without the "benefit" of dedicated L/R channel dac stacking.
Thanks for the review. smile.gif

Seems identical to the 95 with improvement to 0-5%

Hikmer 11-22-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hikmer View Post

I should have my 105 this afternoon, I currently have a 103 and a decent outboard DAC (MSB) which I find to be better than the stock 103 (which I still think is good but not exactly my tastes). I will add my comments about the 105 and compare stock stereo RCA outputs vs my outboard DAC. Really hoping the 105 blows my old MSB DAC away so I can get rid of some equipment!

So I got my 105 last night and wanted to post my initial thoughts before heading to Grandmas for Thanksgiving. Here is my system for those who are curious

Conrad Johnson LS 17 Pramp
Conrad Johnson 2300A Amplifier
MSB LINK II DAC (slightly modified)
Vandersteen 3A Sig with 2Wq subwoofer
Oppo 105
Oppo 103

So I was expecting to play the 105 against the 103 and see if I could hear a difference. After initially playing the 105, I didn't bother...the 2 channel 105 is a significant improvement in dynamics and lower end bass definition that I was hoping to hear. My only hesitation is that against my DAC it isn't as clear which is better. The most difficult issue I face in doing an A/B has to do with the line output levels, the Oppo is about three or four clicks quieter than my DAC so when switching between inputs, I have to turn the volume down and up in order to compare.

I am for sure an 80/20 kind of person so after the 105 has settled in I will do a more thorough listening session....but I really need to justify the price difference and if I really can hear it...I suppose trying SACD and other formats that can't be output to my DAC in HiRez will also help to my review.

So far both units are great, playing Pandora last night actually sounded pretty good. This is my first multimedia center unit, so I am finding myself immersed with new content and listening to things I wouldn't have been exposed to before since I never liked digital over internet sound quality until now.

djkiwi 11-22-2012 11:14 AM

If people can't notice the difference between the BDP 105 and the Panasonic 500 then two things are going on:

1. Their sensory perceptions are incapable of differentiation.

This isn't meant as an insult. I've had friends and family members who haven't noticed any differences at all between components whereas some say the difference is "night and day". Lucky for the people that can't notice the difference as they can be happy with a ghetto blaster and save a ton of cash.

2. Their system is incapable of differentiation.

This could be due to a number issues. There are a lot of components between the source and the final sound heard by the listener and any can degrade the sound considerably.

The most common I've found is overly complex passive crossover networks which "filter" and degrade the sound sometimes rendering a very high quality source such as the Oppo to just "average". For example I have two systems. One is capable of taking full advantage of a very high quality source such as the Oppo 105 and the other is not. On the secondary system, the Oppo does sound a little better than some of the inferior dacs. On the main system, the differences are like "night and day". Also price has a sparse relationship to sound quality. I've heard a pair of $4000 single driver speakers sound much more "refined" than a pair of $180,000 speakers. So if you can't hear much difference between the Oppo and another DAC/squeezebox etc then don't blame the Oppo look elsewhere within the system...

Over the next few weeks, I'm going to do the following:

1. compare the Oppo to a variety of pre-amps in the $150-$15k range and decide whether the Oppo sounds better standalone or with a preamp.
2. Compare the Oppo to a variety of external DACs in the $500-$15k range to determine where the Oppo fits with differing priced dacs.
3. Compare a variety of amps with differing input impedance to determine whether it is a "true preamp". Despite the "theory" it should work, this needs real life testing as I've had mixed results in the past.

I hope other people post their comparisons on the above items as well so we can get a feel of where the 105 ranks in the grand scheme of things.

I've also found this unit needs quite a bit of burn in time. I've been burning this in 24/7 since I got it and it took a long time to settle down. Plugging it in on arrival and then firing off a review after an hour or so is doing this unit a disservice in my opinion.....

dmusoke 11-22-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post


I don't have an HDMI capable set up (receiver) so I'm using the Oppo as such, gentle enough?tongue.gif by the way I disconnected the Oppo for half an hour and cleaned the memory and all seems to be working including the trimming feature, hoping it continues to perform.

Never thought of your scenario Luis, thanks. But what were you using before the 105? Component video / RCA audio from your cable box to your receiver?


dmusoke 11-22-2012 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomin View Post


In my case I'd like to get the AV Receiver/Processor out of the mix entirely - the 105 is allowing me to do that.
HDMI from my cable box goes into the HDMI input on the back of the 105.
My old processor (Arcam AVP700) was nice sonically but didn't do any upscaling of video - it just had HDMI switching/passthrough capabilites.
To play records I might shim an analog pre-amp with Hometheatre passthrough into the mix at some point.

 

Thanks Zooming ...i guess with a limited set of HDMI sources, you can get away from using your Arcam processor and use the 105 entirely!


audiofan1 11-22-2012 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sac8d4 View Post

I know many of you are still wanting feedback on the BDP-105 vs BDP-95, as with every other OPPO i have owned in the past ( DV-981HD to DV-983H, BDP- 83 to BDP-83 SE Nuforce Edition, BDP-95 to BDP-105), Oppo has found away to make improve upon their previous players. Only referring to (analog) audio quality,the margin of improvement is less and less with each Oppo product. Now on to the specific audio qualities of the BDP-105....As various others have reported, the bass does appear to be improved over the BDP-105. To my ears the bass could be described as less "boomy", which makes it seem that that Oppo was able to dig down and reproduce a few octaves lower compared to previous Oppo products. Additionally, the upper octaves seem to have more energy on top. I know many will read this and will think, Bdp-105 is "bright" sounding, but that is an inaccurate description. For those of you that are concerned with the lack of DAC stacking in the design of the BDP-105, this isn't something you will even notice sonically. In fact, I would say that the improved analog path has helped with the sound of this machine. Conservatively, I would quantify the amount as 0%-5% increase in sound over the BDP-95. (I am only referring to the discrete stereo connections, XLR and RCA) Those of you that are on the fence and simply want to purchase a universal player that sounds leaps and bounds better than the previous flagship Oppo player, this may not be the player for you. However, this the best sounding Oppo player to date and has so many important features on the audio side of the house(such as the use of this player as a DMP and USB Asynchronous DAC), that is what sets this player apart from other universal players on the market as well as other Oppo players.

I found the bass under developed (one mans boomy could be described as no weight in another setup) in the early stages of the 95's breakin not until more than 150 hrs did it exceed that which I found from a Denon 5900 (Big and Bold) as for the highs on the 95 they are extended a clean and developed a nice since of "Air" at more than 500 hrs of breakin. the overall tonality of the 95 was as neutral as one could hope for and why some felt it was warm or detailed in there setups during early stages of its initial release. I did find that depending the cables it favored those that offered no specific high lighting of a particular frequency but those that were coherent from top to bottom.

All in all this sounds like a different sounding player at does deserve an 30 day audition to see if it gels with the rest of my gear, and the possibility of keeping both if I find what I would have to give up from the 95 to much.

Thanks for the update and keep us informed on the 105's progress;)

runnin' 11-22-2012 11:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorix View Post

I had the chance to compare the 95 with a few players.
I would rate the Linn Akurate DS best with a 10. 2nd and very close was an Audionet CD player (german high end brand) with a9.5; 3rd Linn Majik DS 8pts; 4th Naim Nd5 XS 7pts; 5th Oppo 95 with 5pts; 6th Marantz 7001KI 3 pts; 7th Marantz Sr9600 DAC 2pts. Overall all tested equipment was very good and I believe that if you do not directly compare; it is hard to find out what is what. I would be very interested where the 105 fits into this list. Hopefully it closes the gap to the Linn DS'S

Interesting post. Comparing the Oppo 95 to machines(some of which aren't even disk players) costing up to 5000 is one thing, but using one's preferences to grade them is difficult to quantify. One person's preferences may not be another's, and all that. Still, for the cost of the Oppo, I suppose it's punching way above it's weight.

audiofan1 11-22-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by djkiwi View Post

If people can't notice the difference between the BDP 105 and the Panasonic 500 then two things are going on:
1. Their sensory perceptions are incapable of differentiation.
This isn't meant as an insult. I've had friends and family members who haven't noticed any differences at all between components whereas some say the difference is "night and day". Lucky for the people that can't notice the difference as they can be happy with a ghetto blaster and save a ton of cash.
2. Their system is incapable of differentiation.
This could be due to a number issues. There are a lot of components between the source and the final sound heard by the listener and any can degrade the sound considerably.
The most common I've found is overly complex passive crossover networks which "filter" and degrade the sound sometimes rendering a very high quality source such as the Oppo to just "average". For example I have two systems. One is capable of taking full advantage of a very high quality source such as the Oppo 105 and the other is not. On the secondary system, the Oppo does sound a little better than some of the inferior dacs. On the main system, the differences are like "night and day". Also price has a sparse relationship to sound quality. I've heard a pair of $4000 single driver speakers sound much more "refined" than a pair of $180,000 speakers. So if you can't hear much difference between the Oppo and another DAC/squeezebox etc then don't blame the Oppo look elsewhere within the system...
Over the next few weeks, I'm going to do the following:
1. compare the Oppo to a variety of pre-amps in the $150-$15k range and decide whether the Oppo sounds better standalone or with a preamp.
2. Compare the Oppo to a variety of external DACs in the $500-$15k range to determine where the Oppo fits with differing priced dacs.
3. Compare a variety of amps with differing input impedance to determine whether it is a "true preamp". Despite the "theory" it should work, this needs real life testing as I've had mixed results in the past.
I hope other people post their comparisons on the above items as well so we can get a feel of where the 105 ranks in the grand scheme of things.
I've also found this unit needs quite a bit of burn in time. I've been burning this in 24/7 since I got it and it took a long time to settle down. Plugging it in on arrival and then firing off a review after an hour or so is doing this unit a disservice in my opinion.....

+1

audiofan1 11-22-2012 11:59 AM

Do you mean to tell me that there are 2 dac's for the headphone:eek: at a minimum I would have settled for the rca's having 2 with the balanced being my first choice, maybe a future firmware will allow some kind of re assignment ?

Bilbo123 11-22-2012 12:01 PM

Hi - First time on the forum for me. Just got the 105 and so far so good. Having trouble, however, getting the UBS DAC to work from my computer. Downloaded the software successfully (it verifies the link to the player as a pre-requisite, so that is not the issue), but that is as far as I can get. As this is a stereo only DAC I have the Oppo's 2-channel analogue outputs configured into my receiver on one input, as well as via HDMI. Supposedly using the USB input I get no sound on any setting. Audio works fine (in 2 and 5 channels) on all other inputs.
There are no instructions whatsoever for the use of the software you must download in order for this to work in Windows, and I really don't have a clue on the computer end how this software is supposed to work. Set it as the default playback device. Nothing!

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

mt14942 11-22-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Nah. They'll sell just fine. Look at the alternatives.
Besides, the potential market for the 105 is way bigger than the current installed base of 95 players.
Heck, there are all those 83SE owners. Not to mention those rare individuals out there who have never even heard of OPPO.
--Bob

That would be me. Have never had the pleasure of listening/viewing an OPPO. Could be my next player. I was also considering the new Marantz 7007. I am still enjoying my A1, but it has its ups and downs.

mt14942 11-22-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Release date: November 20, 2012
Category: Latest Public Beta Release
Main Version: BDP10X-37-1114B
Loader Version: 6U0900 (BDP-103), 7B0600 (BDP-105)
Sub Version: MCU103-05-0916 (BDP-103), MCU105-04-1113 (BDP-105)
1. Added support for "Rhapsody" online music and "CinemaNow" movie/TV streaming services.
2. Added the "Blank HDMI 2" option in the Setup Menu -> Video Setup -> 3D Setting. This allows the player to force HDMI 2 to output a 2D blank screen when HDMI 1 outputs 3D video. Some customers reported that during 3D movie playback, when HDMI 1 was connected to a 3D display and HDMI 2 was connected to a non-3D receiver which in turn is connected to the same 3D display, there was no audio coming from the receiver. This issue has been resolved.
3. Resolved the incorrect aspect ratio (AR) during some user-created media. In the previous firmware the player may have unnecessarily pillarboxed or stretched the video of some user-created media files. This issue has been resolved.
4. Resolved an incompatibility with older Digital Coaxial or Optical receivers where streaming services (such as Netflix, YouTube) produced no audio.
5. Improved the user experience in the HOME menu and the Media Center (Photo, Music, or Movie) e.g., Added Thumbnail View mode for Movie and Music, and the customer can press RED COLOR button to quickly switch between File List mode and Thumbnail View mode.
6. Added "Sleep Timer" option in the Setup Menu -> Device Setup. This allows the player to turn itself off after a specific amount of time.
7. Added support for converting Side-by-Side and Top-Bottom formatted MKV into 3D. During the playback of a compatible MKV, press the 3D button on the remote once to turn on the "2D->3D" conversion then press the 3D button again to display the "3D Setting" menu. Select "Side-by-Side" or "Top-Bottom" to match the source to convert the image to 3D.
8. Added "CD Program Play" function for CD/SACD playback. During the disc playback, press the YELLOW COLOR button to bring the “Program Play” interface. Here you can use the LEFT/RIGHT ARROW button to set a desired playlist.
9. General disc compatibility improvement based on recent and upcoming Blu-ray releases as well as user-submitted disc samples.
Special notices:
a) In order to facilitate the user experience improvement in media navigation (item 6 above), the player will create an "OPPO_Media_Info" folder on the connected USB storage device and store media information there. You may find this folder on USB flash drives or external hard drives after using those on the OPPO player. Please do not delete the folder and its files.
b) SD DVD de-interlacing performance is not as good as that of the official firmware release BDP10X-33-1018. If you watch DVD often, we recommend that you skip this beta test version and wait for the next official release, which will fix this problem.
c) You can revert back to the previous Official release via a USB thumb drive.

I am big fan of Rhapsody and they offer some high resolution streams, so for me this is almost enough reason to buy it. Curious if the sound would be better with the 105 as opposed to the 103? Is streamed music just like cd music and is also improved with better analog features like the 105 offers?

Regnad 11-22-2012 12:37 PM

I have found that streaming music such as Pandora sounds better when I use a Mac mini as the source into the BD-105 USB rather than the built-in BD-105 services.

Perhaps this is because the streaming services often send higher bit-rates to computers rather than "devices".

jimshowalter 11-22-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

In all seriousness, those who purchased the 105 to replace the 95 in their arsenal have been strangely silent. "Burn in" time should have just about ended by now and it's about time that we hear some first impressions folks. Or are y'all sooooo blown away that you haven't been able to leave your listening chair?smile.gif

I upgraded to the 105 for one reason--to get rid of the fan. In our listening environment, it was a distraction (very quiet house up in the mountains, loudest noise is birds).

Getting rid of the fan was worth the cost of the upgrade all by itself, and it definitely runs cooler (a lot cooler), which is a benefit.

But in addition, the speed of the unit is significantly better. The annoying getting-read-to-get-started lag on Blu-rays has been greatly reduced, menus are snappy, navigation is crisp. All good there, and hadn't expected this, so it was a pleasant surprise.

The clicks are still there when muting during transitions, but because everything is faster, there seems to be less of that.

HDMI handshake and lock is nearly instantaneous.

Sound is as good as ever, as is picture quality. I wouldn't say it's remarkably better than the 95, but it's certainly no worse. Listened non-stop over the past week with no fatigue, but that was true with the 95 as well.

I don't use streaming features (can't--no way to get any kind of reasonable broadband, which is the drawback to where we live), but if I did, the flexibility of the 105 (and 103) compared to before would be a benefit.

To summarize, I highly recommend the 105 over the 95 if:

- The 95's fan bugs you, and/or
- The 95's heat bugs you, and/or
- You want a built-in headphone amp, and/or
- You want to decode external digital sources through the 105's DAC, and/or
- You want faster startup and transitions

Otherwise you could probably just stick with the 95.

jimshowalter 11-22-2012 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by adeo View Post

Hi ALL Thinkin about the new 105... I have the BDP-83SE and have two Questions:
1:) What about the sound of the 105 compared to the 83SE, is it a worthy and mentionable difference?

I've owned the 83SE, 95, and now the 105.

From the SE to the 95, there was a definite improvement. This has been noted on various forums so often that despite being anecdotal/subjective, it should probably be believed. (Plus, there are analyzer scans online showing much better specs on the 95 compared to the SE).

Between the 95 and 105, there will be a lot of argument on this thread, which is usually a good indication that differences are minor/negligible/nonexistent. I don't hear a difference between the 95 and 105, and that's running in a system with large speakers and pure analog out from the Oppo. And picture quality seems to be the same (of course, the 95 can't upscale to 4k).

But for other reasons (no fan, faster operation, better transport), etc., I much prefer the 105 to the 95. It's the Oppo I wish I could have bought at the time when upgrading from the SE. You are lucky to be able to do that in one shot.

jimshowalter 11-22-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsauvage View Post

I am the happy owner since its release of a BDP-83, then upgraded into 83SE. I eagerly consider the purchase of BDP-105 to add streaming capability lacking in 83SE (very limited file compatibility). But I'm really curious about the quality of stereo sound (through balanced XLR) compared to that of the 83SE, any comments?
As I look at some pretty upscale audio equipment and consider Lynn Akurate DS plugged into an external DAC like Berkeley Alpha DAC 2.
I wonder if using the oppo as a streamer connected to the Berkeley DAC would give the same sound quality as with the Lynn? (or whether the oppo by itself is soulding close enough?)
And can anybody comment on the audible difference between the 105 and the combination 103 + a very high quality DAC?
FYI I use Belcanto Prepro preamp, amp Belcanto evo6, speakers piega P4MKII, and Nordost red dawn cables in between.
Thank you in advance for your thoughts!

I just answered a similar question about the 83SE vs. 105.

jimshowalter 11-22-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

"BDP-105EU is well suited to being directly connected to a power amp or active speakers. The players level (volume) control uses the dual Sabre32 DAC's which have patented 32 bit level control which is claimed to perform as well as all but the most advanced analogue volume controls."
Directly stating that OPPO's digital volume control is not as good...
...but close to that of "the most advanced analogue volume controls"
We're in rarefied air here at this point!! biggrin.gif

Interesting that they qualified it.

Over on the 105 anticipation thread, assurances were repeatedly made (by AVSers, not by Oppo) that the 105's digital volume control would allow it to be connected directly to power amps for a better result than fixing the volume and connecting through an analog preamp.

Torqdog 11-22-2012 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post

I've owned the 83SE, 95, and now the 105.
From the SE to the 95, there was a definite improvement. This has been noted on various forums so often that despite being anecdotal/subjective, it should probably be believed. (Plus, there are analyzer scans online showing much better specs on the 95 compared to the SE).
Your 83SE to the 95 experience seems to match mine. Dedicated stereo outputs were slightly better but in my case, the multi-channel analog outs were a day and night improvement over the SE. I do listen to allot of SACDs and blu-ray concerts so this factor alone was worth moving up.
Quote:
Between the 95 and 105, there will be a lot of argument on this thread, which is usually a good indication that differences are minor/negligible/nonexistent. I don't hear a difference between the 95 and 105, and that's running in a system with large speakers and pure analog out from the Oppo. And picture quality seems to be the same (of course, the 95 can't upscale to 4k).
But for other reasons (no fan, faster operation, better transport), etc., I much prefer the 105 to the 95. It's the Oppo I wish I could have bought at the time when upgrading from the SE. You are lucky to be able to do that in one shot.
Thanks for that. I was beginning to suspect as much.

As far as the much discussed fan noise, it's never been a problem for me. I have my 95 in an old 80s style (humungous) home theater cabinet with glass doors so the noise never escapes. I will concede that when I open the door to eject a shiny disc, the fan can be heard.

Thanks Jim for your insight. I think that at this point, I'm not convinced the 105 is for me. I'm a simpleton of sorts in that I only use my player for shiny discs and an occasional Pandora session so all the new built in connectivity of this player would go largely un-used. Not to mention that I would have to come up with some new way to hook up the 20" monitor attached to the 95 as the composite output on the 105 no longer puts out video other than the menu screen.

bakerwi 11-22-2012 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post


In all seriousness, those who purchased the 105 to replace the 95 in their arsenal have been strangely silent. "Burn in" time should have just about ended by now and it's about time that we hear some first impressions folks. Or are y'all sooooo blown away that you haven't been able to leave your listening chair?smile.gif

Well, I've had the BDP-105 for about a week and am fortunate enough to still have my BDP-95 (purchaser hasnt' picked it up yet). However, I am also breaking in a pair of Paradigm Signature S8 after a brief stint with a piar of B&W 802 Diamonds. So I need to get accustomed to the BDP-95 through the Paradigms. As previously stated the BDP-105 need only not be a step back and early impressions indicate it will not be.smile.gif

I know a previous poster stated he thought the BDP-105 was better than the BDP-95 and was basically ask to defend his preference.eek.gif I say audition the unit in your setup and let your ears decide.smile.gif

bakerwi 11-22-2012 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post


To summarize, I highly recommend the 105 over the 95 if:
1 The 95's fan bugs you, and/or
2 The 95's heat bugs you, and/or
3 You want a built-in headphone amp, and/or
4 You want to decode external digital sources through the 105's DAC, and/or
5 You want faster startup and transitions
Otherwise you could probably just stick with the 95.

My reasons are 3, 4 & 5 (a big bonus). 1 and 2 were never an issue in my setup.smile.gif

bsauvage 11-22-2012 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by djkiwi View Post

Over the next few weeks, I'm going to do the following:
1. compare the Oppo to a variety of pre-amps in the $150-$15k range and decide whether the Oppo sounds better standalone or with a preamp.
2. Compare the Oppo to a variety of external DACs in the $500-$15k range to determine where the Oppo fits with differing priced dacs.
3. Compare a variety of amps with differing input impedance to determine whether it is a "true preamp". Despite the "theory" it should work, this needs real life testing as I've had mixed results in the past.
I hope other people post their comparisons on the above items as well so we can get a feel of where the 105 ranks in the grand scheme of things.
.....drooling.... can't wait for your results...!

jimshowalter 11-22-2012 01:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Your 83SE to the 95 experience seems to match mine. Dedicated stereo outputs were slightly better but in my case, the multi-channel analog outs were a day and night improvement over the SE. I do listen to allot of SACDs and blu-ray concerts so this factor alone was worth moving up.

Found one of the reviews comparing actual specs:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/oppo-bdp-93/oppo-bdp-93-bdp-95-on-the-bench

rdgrimes 11-22-2012 01:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regnad View Post

I have found that streaming music such as Pandora sounds better when I use a Mac mini as the source into the BD-105 USB rather than the built-in BD-105 services.
Perhaps this is because the streaming services often send higher bit-rates to computers rather than "devices".

Pandora offers "high bitrate" audio only to computers. All streaming players get the same lower-res audio. I think it's 64K stereo for streaming players and 128K for computers with the paid subscription.

ehlarson 11-22-2012 02:05 PM

So what do people think about the headphone situation with the BDP-105? Say with a pair of Audeze LCD-2s?

Will a firmware change be able to up the power output enough to make this combination really work well? Or is it hardware (current) limited?

How about a headphone amp? Are there $500 or so head amps that would be sufficient to do a good job with the LCD-2s?

How about post-market mods? What is the likely cost? If it's going to be $500 or more I'd rather just get a good head amp like a Burson or Bryston.

JonStatt 11-22-2012 02:21 PM

I have a high-end system including Kef reference 4.2 speakers and have both the 95 and 105 connected and they do not sound exactly the same. I already mentioned In an earlier post and 2 other posters with a 95 agreed that the 105 has a more defined and detailed treble. Bass may be marginally tighter as well but it was the high end that was most apparent. I would say the 105 is 15% better....so not huge but more than the other poster suggested in my humble opinion.

Brian-HD 11-22-2012 02:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post

Found one of the reviews comparing actual specs:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/oppo-bdp-93/oppo-bdp-93-bdp-95-on-the-bench

83se?

luismanrara 11-22-2012 02:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Never thought of your scenario Luis, thanks. But what were you using before the 105? Component video / RCA audio from your cable box to your receiver?

I had/have the Oppo-bdp 95 and I was using a HDMI splitter (video only) as well as an audio switch for the center channel for both the Oppo and the Directv box with a dedicated amp for the job, basically I was listening to the Oppo LF and RF channels direct to my Belcanto amp for music and a none HDMI Arcam receiver that I use to power the 4 surround channels, it's complicated but it worked. the Oppo- bdp 105 changes all that as I can use the "HDMI-IN" in the unit for Directv and use the Oppo- bdp-105 as a receiver which outputs via 7.1 analog. I'm also thinking of maybe using the HDMI splitter for the 95 and directv in case the new Oppo bdp- 105 refuses to play something in the near future like Cinavia.

By the way, on a separate subject, I believe that the Oppo 105 is better than the 95 with music by more than 5% as it was stated before. I'm using the Oppo 105 direct to my Belcanto amp and my Gallo reference 3.1 speakers, and even though it is too early to tell as the player needs more brake-in, it sounds promising. There'a also a slight difference in video quality, the 105 seems cleaner, I still don't know which of the two I prefer on video.

jimshowalter 11-22-2012 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

83se?

Yes. It was in response to:

Your 83SE to the 95 experience seems to match mine.

The discussion was, is there a noticeable difference between the 95 and the 105, similar to how there was both a subjective and objective difference between the SE and the 95. I was just showing what the objective differences were.

It would be nice if reviewers still knew how to operate a spectrum analyzer, so they could report on the objective differences between the 95 and the 105.

jimshowalter 11-22-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I have a high-end system including Kef reference 4.2 speakers and have both the 95 and 105 connected and they do not sound exactly the same. I already mentioned In an earlier post and 2 other posters with a 95 agreed that the 105 has a more defined and detailed treble. Bass may be marginally tighter as well but it was the high end that was most apparent. I would say the 105 is 15% better....so not huge but more than the other poster suggested in my humble opinion.

Yes. As I said earlier:

Between the 95 and 105, there will be a lot of argument on this thread, which is usually a good indication that differences are minor/negligible/nonexistent.

bsauvage 11-22-2012 04:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post

It would be nice if reviewers still knew how to operate a spectrum analyzer, so they could report on the objective differences between the 95 and the 105.
For this head over to www.hdfever.fr (in french, but google autotranslate helps), where tester Nicolas Becuwe does that to all units that go through his hands.
Very detailed spectral analysis for the 103, and work in progress for the 105 with his initial comments.

Bob Pariseau 11-22-2012 07:33 PM

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OPPO UK Has Now Posted the 1114B Public Beta Firmware for the European model BDP-103EU and BDP-105EU Players!

http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/customer-services/bdp-103-105eu/

For you folks with the European players, please do read the release notes BEFORE you install the Public Beta firmware. For folks coming from the older players, I'll just remind you again that the installation instructions HAVE CHANGED for the new players.

NOTE: You *CAN* roll back to the current, Official 1018 firmware if you try the Public Beta and run into any issues. Also note that going TO or FROM a Beta firmware install must be done using either the USB or Burned-disc install methods. As usual, Network update is not available when going TO or FROM a Beta firmware release to reduce the chances folks will accidentally install/remove a Beta release without realizing it is a Beta.

For some, unknown reason, OPPO UK has NOT listed the "known issue" with respect SD-DVD de-interlacing in this Public Beta. I DON'T believe they have incorporated a fix which might have arrived after the US Public Beta was built. I suspect instead, they have simply determined that the issue does not affect PAL SD-DVDs (which is likely true, given the nature of the problem). In any event, I fully expect this issue to be fixed before the next "Official" firmware release.
--Bob

Bob Pariseau 11-22-2012 07:54 PM

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In the US, OPPO Digital has dropped the language showing Estimated First Shipment for the BDP-105 as being Monday, November 26.

Their on-line "Store" page now shows BOTH the BDP-103 and BDP-105 in stock and available for immediate shipment.

http://www.oppodigital.com/products.asp

Evidently, the big batch of units they were expecting, have arrived early.
--Bob

Bob Pariseau 11-22-2012 08:13 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsauvage View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post

It would be nice if reviewers still knew how to operate a spectrum analyzer, so they could report on the objective differences between the 95 and the 105.
For this head over to www.hdfever.fr (in french, but google autotranslate helps), where tester Nicolas Becuwe does that to all units that go through his hands.
Very detailed spectral analysis for the 103, and work in progress for the 105 with his initial comments.

Here is a link for the Google translation of HD Fever's post so far regarding the receipt of the BDP-105EU -- i.e., prior to bench tests. As such the discussion is mainly on connectivity, along with photos of the externals and internals. I imagine, they'll have their bench tests available shortly.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://www.hdfever.fr/2012/11/17/reception-du-oppo-bdp-105eu/&usg=ALkJrhgYQOLAB-byk45B_TkJ0gjiMGMU3g

From the (auto translated) comments so far:
Quote:
In any case, the BDP-105EU looks superb dedicated stereo output! I watched a movie in stereo with the Pioneer A70 105EU connected to the cow! Spatialization Superb, very immersive, powerful, dynamic, musical, fast, tight bass, lots of details (well, this is the amp or drive or probably two that offer this report, but it is explosive and beautiful! )

I can only assume Nicolas is talking about an audiophile quality cow.... biggrin.gif

--Bob (notice how I refrained from making a joke about moo-sic?) P.

dmusoke 11-22-2012 08:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Do you mean to tell me that there are 2 dac's for the headphone:eek: at a minimum I would have settled for the rca's having 2 with the balanced being my first choice, maybe a future firmware will allow some kind of re assignment ?

Yes, 2 dacs for the headphone amplifier due to its drive requirements. No on re-assignment since this is 'hard-coded' or fixed by design into the PCB.


dmusoke 11-22-2012 08:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regnad View Post

I have found that streaming music such as Pandora sounds better when I use a Mac mini as the source into the BD-105 USB rather than the built-in BD-105 services.
Perhaps this is because the streaming services often send higher bit-rates to computers rather than "devices".

PC/Mac Pandora is of the highest quality (at 192Kbits/s) if you subscribe to Pandora One. Oppo and other media players receive the lower quality streams and no option for them to stream the higher quality stream.


Bob Pariseau 11-22-2012 08:48 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regnad View Post

I have found that streaming music such as Pandora sounds better when I use a Mac mini as the source into the BD-105 USB rather than the built-in BD-105 services.

Perhaps this is because the streaming services often send higher bit-rates to computers rather than "devices".
PC/Mac Pandora is of the highest quality (at 192Kbits/s) if you subscribe to Pandora One. Oppo and other media players receive the lower quality streams and no option for them to stream the higher quality stream.

Pandora actually has THREE streaming rates.

For computer listeners, you get the lowest of the three rates if you use the service for free. You get the highest of the three rates (along with no commercials) if you pay for the service.

For home theater devices -- and this includes the OPPO players -- you get the middle of the three rates WHETHER OR NOT you pay for the service. So the advantage of paying (for use on the OPPO) is escaping the commercials.

Pandora has been asked time and again why they don't offer the higher streaming rate for OPPO users (or users of other home theater devices) who pay for the service. Their reply? "Alas!", or words to that effect.

They don't elaborate on what's preventing them from doing this. Presumably it is more profitable for them to license the middle rate streams. It is certainly not a technical issue as is obvious from using any of the numerous other streamed music services -- e.g., Rhapsody now in the Public Beta firmware or things like TuneIn via the Roku Streaming Stick.
--Bob

dmusoke 11-22-2012 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

So what do people think about the headphone situation with the BDP-105? Say with a pair of Audeze LCD-2s?
Will a firmware change be able to up the power output enough to make this combination really work well? Or is it hardware (current) limited?
How about a headphone amp? Are there $500 or so head amps that would be sufficient to do a good job with the LCD-2s?
How about post-market mods? What is the likely cost? If it's going to be $500 or more I'd rather just get a good head amp like a Burson or Bryston.

 

After talking to Dan Wright (of the ModWright mod company), he said the gain of the HA is really low, at a gain of 1. It seems Oppo simply used the "Typical Applications" circuit in the datasheet of the TPA6120A amplifier from TI. To change the gain, hence power, will require a 4 resistor changes(2 for left, 2 for right), a proposition they aren't keen on doing. They defend the power specs as they are BTW.

 

Dan said he will work in improving the HA section as well, on top of his SS and Tube mods he's making for the 105.


dmusoke 11-22-2012 09:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post


Yes. It was in response to:
Your 83SE to the 95 experience seems to match mine.
The discussion was, is there a noticeable difference between the 95 and the 105, similar to how there was both a subjective and objective difference between the SE and the 95. I was just showing what the objective differences were.
It would be nice if reviewers still knew how to operate a spectrum analyzer, so they could report on the objective differences between the 95 and the 105.

 

How much do you wanna bet that once the 105 is tested and found to have better specs overall, however inaudible,  then all over a sudden 105 owners will crow about its superior sound over the 95rolleyes.gif?


dmusoke 11-22-2012 09:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


Pandora actually has THREE streaming rates.
For computer listeners, you get the lowest of the three rates if you use the service for free. You get the highest of the three rates (along with no commercials) if you pay for the service.
For home theater devices -- and this includes the OPPO players -- you get the middle of the three rates WHETHER OR NOT you pay for the service. So the advantage of paying (for use on the OPPO) is escaping the commercials.
Pandora has been asked time and again why they don't offer the higher streaming rate for OPPO users (or users of other home theater devices) who pay for the service. Their reply? "Alas!", or words to that effect.
They don't elaborate on what's preventing them from doing this. Presumably it is more profitable for them to license the middle rate streams. It is certainly not a technical issue as is obvious from using any of the numerous other streamed music services -- e.g., Rhapsody now in the Public Beta firmware or things like TuneIn via the Roku Streaming Stick.
--Bob

Actually, they told me they lack the personnel to do it as they are a small company. I had asked for a paid subscription to lossless music.


bakerwi 11-22-2012 09:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

How much do you wanna bet that once the 105 is tested and found to have better specs overall, however inaudible,  then all over a sudden 105 owners will crow about its superior sound over the 95rolleyes.gif ?

I since that some current BDP-95 owners are hoping the BDP-105 is not an improvement or a significant improvement over the BDP-95.biggrin.gif It seems that people are only challenging or probing those posting that favor the BDP-105 over the BDP-95.smile.gif

Bob Pariseau 11-22-2012 10:14 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

. . . .
They don't elaborate on what's preventing them from doing this. Presumably it is more profitable for them to license the middle rate streams. It is certainly not a technical issue as is obvious from using any of the numerous other streamed music services -- e.g., Rhapsody now in the Public Beta firmware or things like TuneIn via the Roku Streaming Stick.

--Bob
Actually, they told me they lack the personnel to do it as they are a small company. I had asked for a paid subscription to lossless music.

Does that make sense to you? They already HAVE the infrastructure to stream their highest rate, because that's what they send to computers. How many people does it take to change the URL used in the Pandora app on the OPPO?

Of course, I can see you are overreaching here -- nothing wrong with that -- asking for "lossless" music. Asking them to stream 7.1 channel, 192KHz 24-bit FLAC might be a WEE bit optimistic. biggrin.gif

But asking them to enable home theater OPPO apps to receive the SAME "highest rate" stream they are ALREADY sending to computers (for paid users), does NOT sound like a reach.

Even for a small company. (A small publicly listed company, I might add -- i.e., they've already had their IPO, so what are they DOING with all that cash?)
--Bob

Torqdog 11-22-2012 10:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I since that some current BDP-95 owners are hoping the BDP-105 is not an improvement or a significant improvement over the BDP-95.biggrin.gifIt seems that people are only challenging or probing those posting that favor the BDP-105 over the BDP-95.smile.gif
You hit the perverbial nail on the head Mr. Willie though I will say in all honesty that what I'm truly looking for and trying to decypher in these comparison posts is some sort of consensus one way or the other. Today has been quite productive rolleyes.gif with one reviewer claiming a 0-5% improvement and another claiming a 15% improvement. Personally speaking, if I continue to see an onslaught of 15% or thereabout reviews, I may indeed take the plunge. 5% borders on the ever so slightly noticable to inaudible range IMHO.

wse 11-22-2012 10:18 PM

So is there an improvement

ThousandThrills 11-22-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Here is a link for the Google translation of HD Fever's post so far regarding the receipt of the BDP-105EU -- i.e., prior to bench tests. As such the discussion is mainly on connectivity, along with photos of the externals and internals. I imagine, they'll have their bench tests available shortly.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://www.hdfever.fr/2012/11/17/reception-du-oppo-bdp-105eu/&usg=ALkJrhgYQOLAB-byk45B_TkJ0gjiMGMU3g
From the (auto translated) comments so far:
I can only assume Nicolas is talking about an audiophile quality cow.... biggrin.gif
--Bob (notice how I refrained from making a joke about moo-sic?) P.

I wanted to link this very good review but I thought that nobody would be interested since that's the same guy who told me how good the Panny 500 was compared to the 93 and even "more"...

And btw it means Holy Cow wink.gif But I assume a Mr Pariseau must know a bit about french...
Good night. Will be ordering the 105 no matter what! Unless you guys keep finding tons of bugs but I just want a great CD and DVD-Audio player before all the rest.

Bob Pariseau 11-22-2012 10:37 PM

8 Attachment(s)
^ Google's automated "Translation" service is a never-ending source of amusement! biggrin.gif
--Bob

wuwhere 11-22-2012 10:42 PM

From my interpretation of that 5% improvement, the 105 is 5% leaner than than the 95?

Bob Pariseau 11-22-2012 11:18 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo123 View Post

Hi - First time on the forum for me. Just got the 105 and so far so good. Having trouble, however, getting the UBS DAC to work from my computer. Downloaded the software successfully (it verifies the link to the player as a pre-requisite, so that is not the issue), but that is as far as I can get. As this is a stereo only DAC I have the Oppo's 2-channel analogue outputs configured into my receiver on one input, as well as via HDMI. Supposedly using the USB input I get no sound on any setting. Audio works fine (in 2 and 5 channels) on all other inputs.
There are no instructions whatsoever for the use of the software you must download in order for this to work in Windows, and I really don't have a clue on the computer end how this software is supposed to work. Set it as the default playback device. Nothing!

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

First of all, welcome to AVS!

First make sure you are wired correctly. The Asynchronous USB DAC Input on the OPPO is the squarer shaped socket on the back panel. It is NOT the thin rectangle shaped USB socket -- that one is for attaching a USB hard drive. You may need to get a cable that has the appropriate USB plug on the OPPO end.

Using the OPPO remote, press the Input button (top right), A menu will pop up on your TV screen. Select "USB Audio In" at the bottom of the list. The OPPO splash screen will appear on your TV and the OPPO will now be listening for digital audio input on that socket. Whatever you play into that socket will go out on the Analog audio outputs and also on HDMI as 2.0 LPCM.

So play music on your computer. Are you getting sound now?

If not, then press the Info button on the OPPO remote (found to the upper right of the 4 Arrow buttons). This will bring up the on-screen Info display that shows you what the OPPO is hearing on that USB DAC Input and what it is sending out on the HDMI output.

If you are not getting audio on the Input then the problem is in the setup in your computer. I.e., either the driver you installed is not active yet (perhaps you need to reboot) or you have not yet told the computer to use that for sound output.

If you are getting audio in and out of the OPPO but still hearing nothing, then you may not have the correct input selected on your Receiver, or you may have accidentally hit the Mute button on the OPPO remote (near the top).
--Bob

Bob Pariseau 11-22-2012 11:23 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post

From my interpretation of that 5% improvement, the 105 is 5% leaner than than the 95?

Wait. Is that good or bad? biggrin.gif

I honestly don't know how folks can characterize this stuff much beyond "liking" it better or not, but then there's a whole vocabulary of audiophile criticism out there which completely mystifies me.
--Bob (lifting the veil another 5%) P.

RickS 11-22-2012 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

First of all, welcome to AVS!
First make sure you are wired correctly. The Asynchronous USB DAC Input on the OPPO is the squarer shaped socket on the back panel. It is NOT the thin rectangle shaped USB socket -- that one is for attaching a USB hard drive. You may need to get a cable that has the appropriate USB plug on the OPPO end.
Using the OPPO remote, press the Input button (top right), A menu will pop up on your TV screen. Select "USB Audio In" at the bottom of the list. The OPPO splash screen will appear on your TV and the OPPO will now be listening for digital audio input on that socket. Whatever you play into that socket will go out on the Analog audio outputs and also on HDMI as 2.0 LPCM.
So play music on your computer. Are you getting sound now?
If not, then press the Info button on the OPPO remote (found to the upper right of the 4 Arrow buttons). This will bring up the on-screen Info display that shows you what the OPPO is hearing on that USB DAC Input and what it is sending out on the HDMI output.
If you are not getting audio on the Input then the problem is in the setup in your computer. I.e., either the driver you installed is not active yet (perhaps you need to reboot) or you have not yet told the computer to use that for sound output.
If you are getting audio in and out of the OPPO but still hearing nothing, then you may not have the correct input selected on your Receiver, or you may have accidentally hit the Mute button on the OPPO remote (near the top).
--Bob

Hi Bob,
This is very good explanation....I loaded the drivers from the site then plugged in the usb cable into the PC then says found new hardware then searched for drivers automatically. Then says hardware is installed ready to use then your go to control panel>sounds>audio tab>OPPO pick OPPO as your audio device. Start your music from your audio pc player, Pick usb input from 105 and all is good. I've been listening to music from many sources the last couple of evenings the PC being one of them. I am overjoyed with sound and performance of this player. smile.gif

thorix 11-23-2012 12:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorix View Post

I had the chance to compare the 95 with a few players.
I would rate the Linn Akurate DS best with a 10. 2nd and very close was an Audionet CD player (german high end brand) with a9.5; 3rd Linn Majik DS 8pts; 4th Naim Nd5 XS 7pts; 5th Oppo 95 with 5pts; 6th Marantz 7001KI 3 pts; 7th Marantz Sr9600 DAC 2pts. Overall all tested equipment was very good and I believe that if you do not directly compare; it is hard to find out what is what. I would be very interested where the 105 fits into this list. Hopefully it closes the gap to the Linn DS'S
Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

Interesting post. Comparing the Oppo 95 to machines(some of which aren't even disk players) costing up to 5000 is one thing, but using one's preferences to grade them is difficult to quantify. One person's preferences may not be another's, and all that. Still, for the cost of the Oppo, I suppose it's punching way above it's weight.

Hi running,
interesting comment, when I posted, I knew that this comment would come.

2 comments from my side,

a) you are implying that I compare apples and oranges. I wanted to talk about what I hear and how it sounds for me. Since, I do not have equipment specific ears, it doesn't matter to me where the sound comes out from. If a specific DAC sounds better then be it a DAC, or what ever. As well, I rate the sound quality not according to the price of an equipment. If expensive stuff sounds better, which is most of the time the case; I still can buy according to my budget.

b) according to my experience there is in most cases a common understanding what sounds good and natural, exccluding 2 specific types of people. The first category are those who do not care, which are more and more folks who grew up with mp3. The second one are the dealers who sell a specific brand. Go to a Linn dealer, he wants to sell you an Klimax DS for 15k plus an extra table for 1k, which is absolutely necessary to make the player sound good. But to be fair, I also met a lot of more objective dealers.

sac8d4 11-23-2012 12:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

You hit the perverbial nail on the head Mr. Willie though I will say in all honesty that what I'm truly looking for and trying to decypher in these comparison posts is some sort of consensus one way or the other. Today has been quite productive rolleyes.gif with one reviewer claiming a 0-5% improvement and another claiming a 15% improvement. Personally speaking, if I continue to see an onslaught of 15% or thereabout reviews, I may indeed take the plunge. 5% borders on the ever so slightlynoticeablee to inaudible range IMHO.

I think you are failing to understand the whole comment on "perceived increase in sound". As I already mentioned, the BDP-105 sounds very good in my system. I have also been quite happy with the BDP-95 for the time I have owned it. I stand behind by my assessment of the player earlier in this thread. It is hard to assign the BDP-105 a % of improvement of sound over the previous BDP-95. Since, the BDP-95 and BDP-105 are made by OPPO, there are a lot more sonic similarities with the machines than are there sonic differences, especially if you were comparing the sound qualities of various other players from different companies. All I was trying to say (or put into some perspective) is, when you are upgrading from the BDP-95, dont expect the BDP-105 to sound leaps and bounds better like you are going from an early model DV-983H to the BDP-105. In my system the BDP-95 was my reference payer, the BDP-105 has dethroned it.

dmusoke 11-23-2012 12:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


Does that make sense to you? They already HAVE the infrastructure to stream their highest rate, because that's what they send to computers. How many people does it take to change the URL used in the Pandora app on the OPPO?
Of course, I can see you are overreaching here -- nothing wrong with that -- asking for "lossless" music. Asking them to stream 7.1 channel, 192KHz 24-bit FLAC might be a WEE bit optimistic. biggrin.gif
But asking them to enable home theater OPPO apps to receive the SAME "highest rate" stream they are ALREADY sending to computers (for paid users), does NOT sound like a reach.
Even for a small company. (A small publicly listed company, I might add -- i.e., they've already had their IPO, so what are they DOING with all that cash?)
--Bob

 

Their reasoning was lame, i agree. I was ready to settle for stereo lossless, 16-bit or 24-bit but no dice. I even asked for the ability to rewind or skip back into the buffer to replay a favorite song...They said no way ...licensing issues prevented that from happening!!! I was flabbergusted to say the least. Such a simple feature requires lawyers to implement???

 

BTW, is there a music service that allows for lossless audio streaming? With broadband download speeds averaging about 10Mb/s in the USA, there shouldn't be a bandwidth problem. Stereo at 16-bits require 1.5Mb/s bandwidth(44,1000 *2 *16). A 24-bit stream would require 2.1Mb/s, again plenty of bandwidth left for other stuff.

 

It seems Pandora and Music artists are fighting each other about royalties:

 

1.    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-11-15/news/35139243_1_internet-radio-fairness-act-tim-westergren-pandora-media

 

2.    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-05/pandora-media-sues-ascap-seeking-lower-songwriter-fees.html

 

And with Apple getting into the streaming business, it sent Pandora's shares tumbling over 20% so i hope this will 'wake' them up to generate new revenue stream from subscribers like paying more for HQ audio music.


audiofan1 11-23-2012 12:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I since that some current BDP-95 owners are hoping the BDP-105 is not an improvement or a significant improvement over the BDP-95.biggrin.gif It seems that people are only challenging or probing those posting that favor the BDP-105 over the BDP-95.smile.gif

I for one hope it is an improvement and not an over cooked goose or a dog with a sweater! I'm glad Oppo listens to there customers but there is a point at which one must decide the important fundamentals. I want the 105 to exceed the 95 in pure raw performance first but from what I understand thus far they added something and killed the reference benchmark performance of the 95 to make the new feature work, I call that compensation and I hope the end result is more than a work around. I just don't want it to come down to choosing features over performance in that case the 95 will stay. Non the less this will be fun and I'm looking forward to the auditioning of the 105 as I'm willing to put my money on Oppo for one upping themselves.smile.gif

Bob Pariseau 11-23-2012 12:45 AM

8 Attachment(s)
dmusoke,
Pandora lives in a special niche carved out by lawmakers. To pay as small a royalty as they pay now (which they already think is too much) they have to operate within strict limits about HOW users can play the content. That's where things like no rewind, and limited plays of a given artist within each hour and such come from. Simply put, the content owners have better connections in Congress than the people who would like to make money streaming that content.

But right now Pandora pays per play, so enabling home theater devices to receive their "best" streaming rate should not be a licensing issue per se, but simply a hit on their profitability.

Oh well. Wrong thread to discuss Pandora's business model.

If you try the new Rhapsody app in the 1114B Public Beta you'll see it follows a very different playback model. And it costs more to subscribe.
--Bob

Bob Pariseau 11-23-2012 12:55 AM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

I for one hope it is an improvement and not an over cooked goose or a dog with a sweater! I'm glad Oppo listens to there customers but there is a point at which one must decide the important fundamentals. I want the 105 to exceed the 95 in pure raw performance first but from what I understand thus far they added something and killed the reference benchmark performance of the 95 to make the new feature work, I call that compensation and I hope the end result is more than a work around. I just don't want it to come down to choosing features over performance in that case the 95 will stay. Non the less this will be fun and I'm looking forward to the auditioning of the 105 as I'm willing to put my money on Oppo for one upping themselves.smile.gif

You can't know that yet, right? This is just a fear at this point? I think I'm spotting comparative reviews and objective tests pretty much in real time as they come out, and I've seen nothing so far that would raise this level of concern.

Time will tell!
--Bob

audiofan1 11-23-2012 01:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

You hit the perverbial nail on the head Mr. Willie though I will say in all honesty that what I'm truly looking for and trying to decypher in these comparison posts is some sort of consensus one way or the other. Today has been quite productive rolleyes.gif with one reviewer claiming a 0-5% improvement and another claiming a 15% improvement. Personally speaking, if I continue to see an onslaught of 15% or thereabout reviews, I may indeed take the plunge. 5% borders on the ever so slightly noticable to inaudible range IMHO.

Still to early to tell in my book and I for one need more elaboration "you know, audiophile lingo" okay that may have rhymed a little but is it warm, lean ,recessed, forward, neutral etc. etc. biggrin.gif

audiofan1 11-23-2012 01:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

You can't know that yet, right? This is just a fear at this point? I think I'm spotting comparative reviews and objective tests pretty much in real time as they come out, and I've seen nothing so far that would raise this level of concern.
Time will tell!
--Bob

So you think I need a hug or something:D

Bob Pariseau 11-23-2012 01:22 AM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

You can't know that yet, right? This is just a fear at this point? I think I'm spotting comparative reviews and objective tests pretty much in real time as they come out, and I've seen nothing so far that would raise this level of concern.
Time will tell!
--Bob

So you think I need a hug or something:D

Don't we all! There's nothing like a new OPPO release to start the adrenalin racing. Can they really have pulled it off -- AGAIN? At this price? biggrin.gif

Seriously though, a lot of casual readers can skim through statements like that and mistakenly believe the evidence is already in, when, of course, it simply isn't yet.

Just trying to limit the level of panic here while we await more completely arbitrary and subjective opinions, urh, solid objective facts. biggrin.gif
--Bob

karmakuma 11-23-2012 02:09 AM

Hi everyone!
first post, so pls don't be to rude if I play against any rules....

I was looking into this - lossless streaming service - for a way too long time (consciousness and the wife say so at least wink.gif ).

Before I get to my findings let me explain my setup and testing:

System: Mac mini 2011 optical out 44.1khz 24bit > Cambridge Audio DAC 3 (old beast, 2002 or so but still playing on areasonably high level) > T&A V10 valve amp > Focal JMLab Electra 927 BE

Testing:
To know what would be the maximum possible audio quality from digital sources through my system, I first listened to various diffrent music formats (MP3, OGG, FLAC) directly from my mac mini through different players (ITunes, VLC, Amarra, PureAudio, XBMC, Plex....) and compared it to the same music played via CD (transport only through the same DAC then same setup). If I give a 10 to CD relative to my system, then Amarra and PureAudio play on the same Level, XBMC and VLC get a 9 to 9.5, Plex, iTunes and all the others a 8.5 to 9 with iTunes (un)clearly being last.
To know how good streamed music can sound I installed a non resampling streaming server (streamtome) in my network and did the same test again with all the players that support streamed audio. Result being, that I could not hear a difference between local play and streamed play.
Winner: VLC with a 9 to 9.5. Now let me be clear, I did find differences but they are so marginally small that I am not sure if I could discern with a reasonable high detecion rate through blind testing!

On to streamed Music:
Tested Services (all with their highest possible stream rates through test subscriptions):
Pandora, Live365, Last.fm, Simfy, Spotify

To be honest, Pandora and Live365 did lose out pretty fast, the quality is simply too far off from the best possible streamed audio. I'd give it a 4, maybe a 5. Last.fm somehow did not cut it either. They seem to have differing compression levels with some music soundig quite good, just to be dumped by the next track... Too bad, since their system lets you find music fitting to your current mood in a quite good way!

This left me with two choices. Simfy and Spotify. Simfy, according to me, has the better music collection. I live in Switzerland and Simfy offers quite a lot of european music not so well known to the rest of the world. But, while audio quality is no slouch at all (seriously!), Spotify beats it by quite amargin. The audio collection in Spotify sometimes misses the one song I really would like to listen to in that very moment, but hey!, what would I do if there were only the cds in my collection and no streaming at all!!?? There's some 18 million other songs in their collection, and Sotifys Radio feature creating Playlists based on chosen Song, Album, Artist or Genre is simply stunning! Maybe even better than Last.fm.

So, Comparing Spotify to local music through my Streaming server and to music played on the Mac mini direct:
There are some times where CD audio on certain CDs presents a bigger, more defined soundstage, like on the Soundtrack of the movie Into The Wild or on some classical recordings, and highs seem a wee bit more resolved, but then again theres this strange thing: Spotify seems to best it in the way ir renders treble and specially voices. don't ask me why. Maybe it has to do with their streaming Format - OGG - and the way the client renders the bitstream. I don't really care... It just leaves me stunned with goosepigs all over at times. Examples? Again the soundtrack from Into The Wild or, Norah Jones, Adele. I hope you get the picture...

So where does this leave me? I am a happy Spotify customer and could't care less about how to get all my CDs, ripped audio (be it ripped by me or someone else on the internet eek.gif ) into my network and onto my system. I do have a small collection of local MP3 for all the stuff I really want to listen to at times and cannot find on Spotify. But its nowhere near as big as it used to be (1.5TB). And it never was easier to browse and listen to music i really want to in that moment.

Plus, with Spotifys IPad app and a small Program called Airserver on my Mac mini, I get to have a real Couch-sitting-music-surfing-never-have-to-leave-my-place experience simply trumping that tiny little .5 points of lesser audio quality compared to handling and listening to CDs.... Even better? The Wife Factor! It just works...

So, thats it smile.gif my 2cents to streaming music....

Maybe someone even read this waaaay too long post wink.gif

Marco

JonStatt 11-23-2012 02:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Here is a link for the Google translation of HD Fever's post so far regarding the receipt of the BDP-105EU -- i.e., prior to bench tests. As such the discussion is mainly on connectivity, along with photos of the externals and internals. I imagine, they'll have their bench tests available shortly.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://www.hdfever.fr/2012/11/17/reception-du-oppo-bdp-105eu/&usg=ALkJrhgYQOLAB-byk45B_TkJ0gjiMGMU3g
From the (auto translated) comments so far:
I can only assume Nicolas is talking about an audiophile quality cow.... biggrin.gif
--Bob (notice how I refrained from making a joke about moo-sic?) P.

Actually some of the content is on the forums they have, such as this post

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdfever.fr%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D8%26t%3D1408%26sid%3Dcf0304ea62babfb5179de88c52c2f8f3%26start%3D410

He indicates that there is a significant improvement in SNR and dynamic range from the 95. To be honest I have often had issues with the reviews on this site. They look very impressive and technical but the measurements sometimes deviate a lot from other sites.

karmakuma 11-23-2012 02:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Their reasoning was lame, i agree. I was ready to settle for stereo lossless, 16-bit or 24-bit but no dice. I even asked for the ability to rewind or skip back into the buffer to replay a favorite song...They said no way ...licensing issues prevented that from happening!!! I was flabbergusted to say the least. Such a simple feature requires lawyers to implement???

BTW, is there a music service that allows for lossless audio streaming? With broadband download speeds averaging about 10Mb/s in the USA, there shouldn't be a bandwidth problem. Stereo at 16-bits require 1.5Mb/s bandwidth(44,1000 *2 *16). A 24-bit stream would require 2.1Mb/s, again plenty of bandwidth left for other stuff.

It seems Pandora and Music artists are fighting each other about royalties:

1.    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-11-15/news/35139243_1_internet-radio-fairness-act-tim-westergren-pandora-media

2.    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-05/pandora-media-sues-ascap-seeking-lower-songwriter-fees.html

And with Apple getting into the streaming business, it sent Pandora's shares tumbling over 20% so i hope this will 'wake' them up to generate new revenue stream from subscribers like paying more for HQ audio music.

My last input just a few posts above was actually meant as a reply to your post...
Marco

zoomin 11-23-2012 06:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Their reasoning was lame, i agree. I was ready to settle for stereo lossless, 16-bit or 24-bit but no dice. I even asked for the ability to rewind or skip back into the buffer to replay a favorite song...They said no way ...licensing issues prevented that from happening!!! I was flabbergusted to say the least. Such a simple feature requires lawyers to implement???

BTW, is there a music service that allows for lossless audio streaming? With broadband download speeds averaging about 10Mb/s in the USA, there shouldn't be a bandwidth problem. Stereo at 16-bits require 1.5Mb/s bandwidth(44,1000 *2 *16). A 24-bit stream would require 2.1Mb/s, again plenty of bandwidth left for other stuff.

http://mog.com - Not lossless but pretty good quality stream AND the ability to play one song or an entire album of your choosing when you want, however many times you want - that's the killer part for me.

bakerwi 11-23-2012 06:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

You hit the perverbial nail on the head Mr. Willie though I will say in all honesty that what I'm truly looking for and trying to decypher in these comparison posts is some sort of consensus one way or the other. Today has been quite productive rolleyes.gif with one reviewer claiming a 0-5% improvement and another claiming a 15% improvement. Personally speaking, if I continue to see an onslaught of 15% or thereabout reviews, I may indeed take the plunge. 5% borders on the ever so slightly noticable to inaudible range IMHO.

This week-end I will spend some extensive time listening to a new pair of Paradigm Signature S8, which I've been running non-stop for the past 5 days. I don't want new speakers coloring anything that I may be hearing when I finally attempt to form an opinion as BDP-95 versus BDP-105. The BDP-105 is definitely replacing the BDP-95 for other reasons. I am personally not expecting to hear any (or marginal at best) improvement since the BDP-95 tested practically off the chart and I think any improvements at this point may be measurable, but not necessarily audible. However, some have already noted improvements and have tried to quantify these improvements.

audiofan1 11-23-2012 07:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Don't we all! There's nothing like a new OPPO release to start the adrenalin racing. Can they really have pulled it off -- AGAIN? At this price? biggrin.gif
Seriously though, a lot of casual readers can skim through statements like that and mistakenly believe the evidence is already in, when, of course, it simply isn't yet.
Just trying to limit the level of panic here while we await more completely arbitrary and subjective opinions, urh, solid objective facts. biggrin.gif
--Bob

Having received one of the initial batches of 95's (not Beta) when released to replace two units and never having tried an Oppo player before, I soon afterwards a month later pronounced it a" Giant killer" and looking back at numerous awards and Audiophile praise later I was dead on. I'm hedging I will indeed heep out the praise in a few weeks when the 105 is in my hands, as I stated before I've learned not to bet against Oppo!


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