Pioneer Elite BDP-85FD and BDP-88FD Blu-ray Players at CEDIA 2014 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 388 Old 09-13-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 67 - 427 View Post
It just baffles me then. Why is this an Elite product??? It's the same style remote I have now and mine broke it about a week. I like to bring up the Toshiba HD DVD remote I have which is made from metal and has a backlight. Now that is a remote. Again, this is an Elite model, yet they still can't get a decent remote for it.
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post #62 of 388 Old 09-13-2014, 08:30 PM
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They could, but they haven't offered or included one yet. They could clearly have one made for them but what the hell do you want for a measly $2K. Those buying will likely be those with a Crestron or equivalent control system and can shel out the bucks to have it programmed for the Elite.
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post #63 of 388 Old 09-13-2014, 08:36 PM
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post #64 of 388 Old 09-13-2014, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RickyDeg View Post
I'd say less than a few would invest in players (at this price) when 4K Blu-ray is around the corner lol
Many first gen 4K Blu-ray payer bugs would be solved with firmware, I'm sure. Oppo, anyone?
Don't expect Oppo to dive into it till things are bit more settled, there are price points they don't want to go to. The first ones are not going to be cheap from anyone.

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post #65 of 388 Old 09-13-2014, 11:46 PM
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Count me in the the 88FD I am ready to put that elite name back in the house and I love the saber dacs they used in the 09 so I know these will be exceptional
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post #66 of 388 Old 09-14-2014, 12:13 AM
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Don't expect Oppo to dive into it till things are bit more settled, there are price points they don't want to go to. The first ones are not going to be cheap from anyone.
Actually I'm confident Oppo will be one of the first acts to release 4K Blu-ray players. And I don't expect them to be cheap. Who does? Then again they might surprise us! I was taking about the oddity of paying that kind of money now for a standard Blu-ray player at this stage in the game when 4K Blu-ray have just been officially announced. The timing by Pioneer is off. Very off.


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post #67 of 388 Old 09-14-2014, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RickyDeg View Post
Actually I'm confident Oppo will be one of the first acts to release 4K Blu-ray players. And I don't expect them to be cheap. Who does? Then again they might surprise us! I was taking about the oddity of paying that kind of money now for a standard Blu-ray player at this stage in the game when 4K Blu-ray have just been officially announced. The timing by Pioneer is off. Very off.
I completely agree. These at the very latest should have been offered this past summer. And I usually love a good flagship model. I still remember their impressive 09FD. Besides the 4K up convert (and 3D) these models seem so 5 years ago. I would have expected an hdmi input (or two) for the money and definitely a better remote. At least they're good looking shiny black models. But for the price they are listed at this late in the game most who can afford most likely also can afford to be one of the first 4K Blu-ray owners too. Prices should have been around 800 and 1200 msrps. Just my 2 cents (not $2K).
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post #68 of 388 Old 09-14-2014, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
I completely agree. These at the very latest should have been offered this past summer. And I usually love a good flagship model. I still remember their impressive 09FD. Besides the 4K up convert (and 3D) these models seem so 5 years ago. I would have expected an hdmi input (or two) for the money and definitely a better remote. At least they're good looking shiny black models. But for the price they are listed at this late in the game most who can afford most likely also can afford to be one of the first 4K Blu-ray owners too. Prices should have been around 800 and 1200 msrps. Just my 2 cents (not $2K).
I appreciate your 2 cents and agree with them too! These Elite units come way too 'late'. My first DVD and Blu-ray player were both Pioneers, I tend to like their attention to quality. The 09FD was indeed an impressive unit! But Oppo is my personal preference these days. Have a strong feeling Oppo is gearing up for their first 4K Blu-ray player as soon as possible. Maybe 4Q 2015 I'll replace my BDP-103D. Can't wait!


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post #69 of 388 Old 09-14-2014, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RickyDeg View Post
Actually I'm confident Oppo will be one of the first acts to release 4K Blu-ray players. And I don't expect them to be cheap. Who does? Then again they might surprise us! I was taking about the oddity of paying that kind of money now for a standard Blu-ray player at this stage in the game when 4K Blu-ray have just been officially announced. The timing by Pioneer is off. Very off.
Well, if 4k players are priced too high, the industry will once again shoot themselves in the foot, head, and other body parts if good-paced mass adoption is a goal.

Most of us (AVS) idiots will pay some premium ($799 maybe?), presuming the content isn't as poor as streaming 4k and audio is full resolution. But IMO $499 4k disc players will not be flying off the shelves at Best Buy or shipping docks at Amazon...
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post #70 of 388 Old 09-14-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
... But for the price they are listed at this late in the game most who can afford most likely also can afford to be one of the first 4K Blu-ray owners too. Prices should have been around 800 and 1200 msrps...
I won't be buying a new BR player anytime soon..I might upgrade to 4K, but that will also require me to upgrade my Lumagen video processor, Krell pre-pro, and projector. For all that I'd be looking close to $20k so I'll probably stick with what I have for quite a while yet, vanilla BR is good enough for me.
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post #71 of 388 Old 09-14-2014, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bigcoupe2003 View Post
Count me in the the 88FD I am ready to put that elite name back in the house and I love the saber dacs they used in the 09 so I know these will be exceptional

The 09 used Wolfson DAC's not ESS Saber...
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post #72 of 388 Old 09-14-2014, 08:37 AM
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Well, if 4k players are priced too high, the industry will once again shoot themselves in the foot, head, and other body parts if good-paced mass adoption is a goal.

Most of us (AVS) idiots will pay some premium ($799 maybe?), presuming the content isn't as poor as streaming 4k and audio is full resolution. But IMO $499 4k disc players will not be flying off the shelves at Best Buy or shipping docks at Amazon...

I think you're spot on here.


Disc drives are a commodity now and bitstreaming is more or less an equalizer at this point for source devices.


I think one can spend their money in a more beneficial way by looking to room optimization/correction technology at the pre-pro level or the purchase of a Lumagen unit and a Display 3 PRO Colorimeter.
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post #73 of 388 Old 09-14-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Well, if 4k players are priced too high, the industry will once again shoot themselves in the foot, head, and other body parts if good-paced mass adoption is a goal.

Most of us (AVS) idiots will pay some premium ($799 maybe?), presuming the content isn't as poor as streaming 4k and audio is full resolution. But IMO $499 4k disc players will not be flying off the shelves at Best Buy or shipping docks at Amazon...
Five hundred dollars max. for either one of them.
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post #74 of 388 Old 09-14-2014, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
The 09 used Wolfson DAC's not ESS Saber...
your exactly right it did use the wolfson dac
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post #75 of 388 Old 09-15-2014, 04:26 AM
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Yes .. a BIG yes , "some may beg-to-differ " when it comes to the Pioneer BDP-62-FD with some playback/issues but for me the player has & is a budget beating All-rounder that just can't be beaten @ its price-point back then. in-spite of the issues for some .the BDP-62
is a beast of a multitask er from BD/3D,BD/DVD/CD-R/SACD/DVD-AUDIO/WAV/FLAC/J-PEG/ HI-RES audio files , you name it the 62-FD played it .. i also owned the BDP-51/23/52
I have a BDP-62...two of them as a matter of fact...and a BDP-52

I paid about $65-75 each for all of them on clearance at Magnolia HT

pretty poor smart interface on those....compared to players that were much less MSRP

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post #76 of 388 Old 09-15-2014, 11:57 AM
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I have a BDP-62...two of them as a matter of fact...and a BDP-52

I paid about $65-75 each for all of them on clearance at Magnolia HT

pretty poor smart interface on those....compared to players that were much less MSRP

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If I want to stream from Netflix, Youtube, Pandora, etc., I'll just run a long HDM cable from my receiver to my laptop. Due to my sight impairment, I can't use the smart interfaces on the players. If they are as buggy as people say thy are, then I wouldn't be missing out that much anyway. My BDP-52FD is strictly for all my discs, which is many afternoon hours a day.
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post #77 of 388 Old 09-15-2014, 01:49 PM
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned is, what type of media file playback do these Pio's have? Will they play MKV encoded video files like my oppo does? MKV streaming capability was my main consideration for stepping up to an Oppo. If the Pio's can't do everything Oppo can and do it better, why would they expect anyone to buy one? (Seriously)

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post #78 of 388 Old 09-15-2014, 06:39 PM
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned is, what type of media file playback do these Pio's have? Will they play MKV encoded video files like my oppo does? MKV streaming capability was my main consideration for stepping up to an Oppo. If the Pio's can't do everything Oppo can and do it better, why would they expect anyone to buy one? (Seriously)
yes the pioneer's play's pretty much everything the much pricier Oppo plays .(DivX (.avi/.divx/.mkv)

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post #79 of 388 Old 09-15-2014, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pioneertop View Post
yes the pioneer's play's pretty much everything the much pricier Oppo plays .(DivX (.avi/.divx/.mkv)
Whatchoo talkin' about, Willis? The most expensive Oppo is $700 cheaper than the 88FD.

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post #80 of 388 Old 09-15-2014, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pioneertop View Post
yes the pioneer's play's pretty much everything the much pricier Oppo plays .(DivX (.avi/.divx/.mkv)
Last time I checked, $500 (oppo 103) was less than $2,000

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post #81 of 388 Old 09-16-2014, 05:50 AM
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Last time I checked, $500 (oppo 103) was less than $2,000
come on !! guys we all know that , the (suggested retail) pioneer post on the web- site is not what we will be paying for these players/ in-store & street, and to be fair these are Newly launched players that won't be available till December, which by then we will see what they acutely sell for . not to mention the 103/105 are very close to "over the hill " ,Oppo most likely have New players in the pipe-line,
any how you put it the Oppo is much more costly to own than pioneer .

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post #82 of 388 Old 09-16-2014, 06:10 AM
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come on !! guys we all know that , the (suggested retail) pioneer post on the web- site is not what we will be paying for these players/ in-store & street, and to be fair these are Newly launched players that won't be available till December, which by then we will see what they acutely sell for . not to mention the 103/105 are very close to "over the hill " ,Oppo most likely have New players in the pipe-line,
any how you put it the Oppo is much more costly to own than pioneer .
Yes, it's quite likely the new Pioneer's will sell at 70-80% off of MSRP...

What's over the hill about the Oppo's?

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post #83 of 388 Old 09-16-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Yes, it's quite likely the new Pioneer's will sell at 70-80% off of MSRP...

What's over the hill about the Oppo's?

Finally...

just in case you missed it ! i was talking about the launch-date, when its comes to the Oppo 103/105. which has already been updated .with the "D" , these players were launched back in Sep-of 2012 ..which in today's market place is "Ancient" and i did not say "over" the hill ...i said almost . Anyway today its seems like every six mouths to ah year a new model is out, before you can really get to know and enjoy your new product .

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post #84 of 388 Old 09-16-2014, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by pioneertop View Post
just in case you missed it ! i was talking about the launch-date, when its comes to the Oppo 103/105. which has already been updated .with the "D" , these players were launched back in Sep-of 2012 ..which in today's market place is "Ancient" and i did not say "over" the hill ...i said almost . Anyway today its seems like every six mouths to ah year a new model is out, before you can really get to know and enjoy your new product .


You're parsing words...


The 103/105D machines are different machines/models with different features:
  • 103/105 machines use the Marvell's Kyoto-G2H video processor.
  • 103/105D machines use the Silicon Image VRS ClearView processor plus Darbee processing.

All of the above is current technology with regards to HD display. Both series are supported and sold and IMHO far from over the hill, more like leading the pack. OPPO customer service is head and shoulders above Pioneer as well. Yes, I've owned machines from both and had occasion to use customer service from both.


The announcement of the BDP-85FD and BDP-88FD looks like a replay of the BDP-05FD and BDP-09FD with the addition of 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 chipsets which are largely unusable in this configuration and meaningless for Blu-ray playback. Let's hope the new Pioneers have better quality drive components inside than what was used in the BDP/51/05/09's

Frankly, I'm surprised to see Pioneer introduce such machines after their reorganization. No doubt people will buy them.

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post #85 of 388 Old 09-17-2014, 01:54 PM
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Apparently the 88 upscales to 4K.

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post #86 of 388 Old 09-17-2014, 03:22 PM
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Apparently the 88 upscales to 4K.
Actually, both of them do...

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...le%20Sheet.pdf

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...le%20Sheet.pdf

Both use Marvell video processors and they both claim the usual smoke and mirror superlatives:

  • Highly Rigid Bonnet Structure with Beam for Reducing Unwanted Vibration
  • Three-Chamber Structure with Separate Blocks for Power Supply, DigitalProcessing, and Audio Circuits
  • Double-Layered Chassis for Low Centre of Gravity and Overall Rigidity
  • High Performance Rigid and Quiet BD Drive
  • Disc Tray with Anti-Vibration Paint
  • Acoustic Electric Capacitors and Other High-Grade Parts
  • Gold-Plated Terminals
  • etc., etc., etc. ...
How about that "Disc Tray" with "Anti-Vibration Paint"! Must of had some left over truck bed liner paint laying around in the barn after the reorganization ...

Maybe Pioneer will include a green magic marker to the first 100 buyers so they can paint the edge of a Blu-ray to improve 4K up conversion.

If I hadn't downloaded the above pdf's from Pioneer, I would have guessed they were something that came from "The Onion".

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post #87 of 388 Old 09-18-2014, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
Actually, both of them do...

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...le%20Sheet.pdf

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...le%20Sheet.pdf

Both use Marvell video processors and they both claim the usual smoke and mirror superlatives:

  • Highly Rigid Bonnet Structure with Beam for Reducing Unwanted Vibration
  • Three-Chamber Structure with Separate Blocks for Power Supply, DigitalProcessing, and Audio Circuits
  • Double-Layered Chassis for Low Centre of Gravity and Overall Rigidity
  • High Performance Rigid and Quiet BD Drive
  • Disc Tray with Anti-Vibration Paint
  • Acoustic Electric Capacitors and Other High-Grade Parts
  • Gold-Plated Terminals
  • etc., etc., etc. ...
How about that "Disc Tray" with "Anti-Vibration Paint"! Must of had some left over truck bed liner paint laying around in the barn after the reorganization ...

Maybe Pioneer will include a green magic marker to the first 100 buyers so they can paint the edge of a Blu-ray to improve 4K up conversion.

If I hadn't downloaded the above pdf's from Pioneer, I would have guessed they were something that came from "The Onion".
I'd want to hear an explanation for what the paint does. Depending upon its weight, thickness or composition, perhaps it does have some special property. But I'd still want an explanation for that one as it did raise an eyebrow.

Both players upscale, yes, but I was focused on the 88. I downloaded the brochures for each and will look them over.

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post #88 of 388 Old 09-18-2014, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post
I'd want to hear an explanation for what the paint does. Depending upon its weight, thickness or composition, perhaps it does have some special property. But I'd still want an explanation for that one as it did raise an eyebrow.

Both players upscale, yes, but I was focused on the 88. I downloaded the brochures for each and will look them over.

It all maybe a moot point in the near future as the private equity/venture capital company, Baring Private Equity Asia, has pulled out of the financial restructuring deal with Pioneer and Onkyo. Pioneer announced yesterday that it will sell its home AV business to Onkyo.


http://pioneer.jp/press-e/2014/pdf/0912-2.pdf


http://www.twice.com/news/audio/pion...ss-onkyo/54000
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post #89 of 388 Old 09-18-2014, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
It all maybe a moot point in the near future as the private equity/venture capital company, Baring Private Equity Asia, has pulled out of the financial restructuring deal with Pioneer and Onkyo. Pioneer announced yesterday that it will sell its home AV business to Onkyo.


http://pioneer.jp/press-e/2014/pdf/0912-2.pdf


http://www.twice.com/news/audio/pion...ss-onkyo/54000
Not good.

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post #90 of 388 Old 09-18-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pioneertop View Post
come on !! guys we all know that , the (suggested retail) pioneer post on the web- site is not what we will be paying for these players/ in-store & street, and to be fair these are Newly launched players that won't be available till December, which by then we will see what they acutely sell for . not to mention the 103/105 are very close to "over the hill " ,Oppo most likely have New players in the pipe-line,
any how you put it the Oppo is much more costly to own than pioneer .

Actually, the current Oppo BDP-103D does more than the BDP-85FD and the BDP-105D does more than BDP-88FD. I would like to see Pioneer get back in the High End, but $1,000.00 and $2,000.00, respectively is uninformed pricing on their part. These Pioneer are sorely lacking in features you would expect at this price point. There is not a compelling reason to purchase either player.

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