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post #4471 of 4784 Old 04-24-2018, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
HDR BT.2020 to SDR BT.2020 Absolutely Does require Gamma 2.4 when used with a UB900/HDFury/JVC combo

If you set the Panasonic to convert HDR to SDR it will revert down to SDR Rec.709 8bit (same as bluray) Don't do that!

What many JVC users have been doing (since Summer 2016) is using an HDFury Integral/Linker/Vertex to change the EDID info in the signal
to allow the Panasonic to send SDR BT.2020 with Wide Golor Gammut because the HDFury product turns off the Flag for HDR but leaves everything else intact.
The other benefit was it restored the use of the Dynamic Iris that is not functional with HDR in the signal.

The EDID on the Vertex for SDR BT.2020 WCG number 14 (if your HDMI cable is 4K 4:4:4 12Bit capable)



Yes you would use BT.2020 and Gamma at 2.4 for that (all your settings would be very close to your 1080p settings)
Panasonic re-maps the colors perfectly for SDR BT.2020 conversion, something Oppo has been struggling to match since its 203 release.

When Custom Gamma Curves and Arve's tool came out about last Spring, many switched back to using HDR.
The Linker or Vertex would keep the JVC in your new custom gamma selection, otherwise it will auto switch back to JVC's broken Gamma D.
If you want to use a Custom Gamma you select BT.2020 and load up to 3 different custom curves into the JVC's memory slots.

I bought the Vertex because my Integral could not stop the gamma D auto switch, or enable the DI in HDR mode.

Going to try the Oppo's new FW update as soon as it gets an official release,
I can't load a Beta FW because my 203 has the region free mod
If I have a JVC 620, why would I choose EDID #14 versus EDID #11 ? How does the picture quality differ between the two?

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post #4472 of 4784 Old 04-24-2018, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
If I have a JVC 620, why would I choose EDID 14 versus EDID 11 ?
How does the picture quality differ between the two?
14 removes HDR and converts to SDR/BT.2020

The EDID screen shot I posted is from my HDFury Vertex,
Those are different from the HDFury Linker and Integral model EDID settings

Vertex EDID settings:
11 = HDR
14 = SDR

If you have a Custom HDR Gamma Curve you would use EDID 11 (pass though signal)...on a Vertex for 4K/HDR/BT.2020 4:4:4 12 Bit
You would also set the Disable HDR button to "on" to allow the Dynamic Iris to function during HDR playback (that is normally disabled during HDR playback)
This setting does not affect HDR playback, ...sorry if that sounds confusing but it works!

If you are limited to what your JVC came with (Gamma D) and sometimes find titles look too dark,
Converting to SDR with the HDFury Vertex EDID 14 will give you a brighter 4K/UHD/BT.2020 image using a JVC Gamma setting of 2.4 (like regular bluray)
...you may even find its bright enough in low lamp mode, that will reduce fan noise as well as extend lamp life. Dynamic Iris also works in this mode.

SDR BT.2020 conversion is for those that are not satisfied with their standard JVC HDR Gamma D playback. (and don't want to resort to custom gamma profiles)
If you are happy with what you already have with HDR playback on your JVC, there is no need for an HDFury product in your system.
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post #4473 of 4784 Old 04-24-2018, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
14 removes HDR and converts to SDR/BT.2020

The EDID screen shot I posted is from my HDFury Vertex,
Those are different from the HDFury Linker and Integral model EDID settings

Vertex EDID settings:
11 = HDR
14 = SDR

If you have a Custom HDR Gamma Curve you would use EDID 11 (pass though signal)...on a Vertex for 4K/HDR/BT.2020 4:4:4 12 Bit
You would also set the Disable HDR button to "on" to allow the Dynamic Iris to function during HDR playback (that is normally disabled during HDR playback)
This setting does not affect HDR playback, ...sorry if that sounds confusing but it works!

If you are limited to what your JVC came with (Gamma D) and sometimes find titles look too dark,
Converting to SDR with the HDFury Vertex EDID 14 will give you a brighter 4K/UHD/BT.2020 image using a JVC Gamma setting of 2.4 (like regular bluray)
...you may even find its bright enough in low lamp mode, that will reduce fan noise as well as extend lamp life. Dynamic Iris also works in this mode.

SDR BT.2020 conversion is for those that are not satisfied with their standard JVC HDR Gamma D playback.
If you are happy with what you already have with HDR playback on your JVC, there is no need for an HDFury product in your system.
Thanks, I do need it for my DI to work. I'm switching to the Vertex because I'm having trouble with my DirecTV resolution switching to 480p every few days or uses. When I take out the Linker, the problem resolves, so I'm hoping the more advanced Vertex will solve this issue.

I have Chad B's HDR curves, so I'm good there. Are these JVC-specific adjustments on the Vertex of use to me?

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post #4474 of 4784 Old 04-24-2018, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by arftech View Post
It's going to have 7.1 analog outs...yeah baby!
Yep I have one of the UB900's and the 7.1 Analog out is not a patch on my old Oppo BDP-95, just had a free trial on Oppo UDP-203 and its stunning, I have now placed an order for a 205, waiting in antisipation.

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post #4475 of 4784 Old 04-24-2018, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by statealum View Post
The Oppo 203 doesn't currently support HDR 10+. Oppo is currently looking into whether or not their current hardware can support it. So if HDR 10+ is important to you it's better for you to wait for the Panasonic player or for Oppo to confirm that they can indeed support HDR 10+.
Hi I have just had an Oppo UDP-203 at home for a weekend trial from my local HiFi dealer and yes it came up on the screen HDR10, that was following the firmware upgrade as out of the box it did not.

Just waiting on delivery for my UDP-205 and relegating my UB900 to the family room, picture and sound far better on the Oppo.

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post #4476 of 4784 Old 04-24-2018, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
Well, by all accounts it is a high quality, highly capable, and dependable player and Oppo has stated they will continue to honor the warranty. I am interested in the Panasonic 9000 but not interested in waiting until the end of the year for it to become available. I am in need of a player sooner rather than later.
Don't forget the new UB9000 will NOT play SACD or DVD A, but both of the latest Oppo's will.

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post #4477 of 4784 Old 04-24-2018, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Navyship View Post
Hello

I have decided to purchase a DVD players and really like the Panasonic DMP-ub900. In my research, I have found the DMP-ub400 is probably the best option and better value. Can anyone who have bought either provide feedback.
Don't get me wrong its a good machine but I did find the Audio lacked punch over my Oppo BDP-95 and even more so against the Oppo UDP-203 I just had at home for a weekend.

That is my opinion you may find it fine having said that please know that the Panasonic will not play SACD or DVD A disks, so if you want one machine for all then you have to look elsewhere, I have a UB900 but have just placed an order for the Oppo UDP-205.

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post #4478 of 4784 Old 04-24-2018, 10:40 PM
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I just tried out subtitles on the player. Gee that subtitle shift plus luminance is just brilliant! Too bad they don't have a resize option. I hope the 9000 has it as well.
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post #4479 of 4784 Old 05-06-2018, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by NPoser View Post
Hi folks
Does anybody tried to playback the BD-R TL (100Gb BDXL) discs on the UB900/UB700?
Although this question was posted a while back, just would like to answer this based on my experience as it's hard for me to find out information about this too, and I'd like to share my experience / try and error with this.

I owned Samsung UBD-K8500, but no luck with playing BD-R XL 100gb discs. Been searching about which player that supports the disc, and found on foreign forum sites (German and Japanese language, with the help of Google Translate) that UB900 does support BD-R XL 100gb disc playback, but the caveat is, we have to use Verbatim's blank BD-R

I've ordered DMP-UB900 (really gambling my luck here hoping that it will work) and just received it 3 days ago, and I've ordered Verbatim's blank BD-R from Japan as well a while ago via eBay (which I used to test my Samsung UBD-K8500 also, but still the disc not playable).

I can confirm that DMP-UB900 can play BD-R XL 100gb discs fine. I've burned something to TDK's blank BD-R that I ordered from China via AliExpress website (seems like out of stock now), and they play fine too. Looks like both Verbatim and TDK discs can be played without issue.
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post #4480 of 4784 Old 05-14-2018, 08:28 PM
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I finally got my Masciola HDR10 test patterns disc, and decided to at least get the basic settings correct with HDR10 on my E6 OLED. What I found interesting using the dynamic range slider, that I can raise it all the way to +12 and get no clipping of the 1000 nit white clipping flashing patterns. If I set the slider back to 0, in order for the tv to get as bright as setting the slider +6 or +7, I have to set dynamic contrast to medium on the tv, which then clips below 1000 nits. IOW, the slider works so much better without clipping. I then tested the black clipping test pattern, and raising the slider value doesn't affect near blacks at all. So my black remain black, whereas if I use dynamic contrast on the tv, it does force me to lower brightness a notch. I did have the 900 attached to my EF6500 OLED, and my OPPO 203 attached to my E6. I do prefer the way the 900 works with HDR10 compared to my 203, so it looks like I will be using the 203 for DV content, and the 900 for HDR10 movies on my E6.
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post #4481 of 4784 Old 05-15-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I did have the 900 attached to my EF6500 OLED, and my OPPO 203 attached to my E6. I do prefer the way the 900 works with HDR10 compared to my 203, so it looks like I will be using the 203 for DV content, and the 900 for HDR10 movies on my E6.
This is good to know since I (still) have the old OLED (I assume you meant EF9500). I have resisted using dynamic contrast except for some streaming (mostly Amazon), where I don't use the 900 anyway.

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post #4482 of 4784 Old 05-15-2018, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
This is good to know since I (still) have the old OLED (I assume you meant EF9500). I have resisted using dynamic contrast except for some streaming (mostly Amazon), where I don't use the 900 anyway.
Yep. meant EF9500.
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post #4483 of 4784 Old 05-22-2018, 01:09 AM
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Any one here know if the UB900 handles tone-mapping and how it works ?
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post #4484 of 4784 Old 05-22-2018, 10:16 PM
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Any one here know if the UB900 handles tone-mapping and how it works ?
It doesn't, it does HDR-SDR conversion only. Tone Mapping is coming in the Panasonic UB9000 and UB820
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post #4485 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 09:15 AM
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With my Oppo 203 distracting me for the last few months, I watched a 4K / HDR disc on my 900 last night (converting to SDR for JVC PJ, via HDFury).

Is there a way to get to the SDR Conversion brightness "Slider" directly from the remote (ie not going through the menu)?

Or otherwise discreet IR commands for +/- Slider adjustments?

Couldn't remember, and couldn't seem to find how to do it (at least in the dark...)

Family doesn't like menus during movies...

Thanks!
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post #4486 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcl View Post
With my Oppo 203 distracting me for the last few months, I watched a 4K / HDR disc on my 900 last night (converting to SDR for JVC PJ, via HDFury).

Is there a way to get to the SDR Conversion brightness "Slider" directly from the remote (ie not going through the menu)?
No...there are no "direct" commands. I usually set it "per movie" though (not change it on the fly)...and only then for a couple of movies.

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post #4487 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
It doesn't, it does HDR-SDR conversion only. Tone Mapping is coming in the Panasonic UB9000 and UB820
I think HDR>SDR and Tone Mapping are basically the same thing.

I don't think you can convert w/out tone mapping - otherwise you'd just have to reduce the video level uniformly across the board, leading to very dark video.

I think the difference in the Oppo's approach (which doesn't work quite right ATM...) and the upcoming Panasonics (supposedly) will be dynamic tone mapping.

That's my understanding anyway.

FWIW, I prefer the (apparently) "static" 900 HDR>SDR as compared to the dynamic Oppo 203 (at least in its current implementation).

The Oppo has some great control over how it does the conversion, and it sometimes looks great, but sometimes it's way off and has very obvious artifacts. FW needs some work, IMO, but could be great if they get it to work predictably.
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post #4488 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
No...there are no "direct" commands. I usually set it "per movie" though (not change it on the fly)...and only then for a couple of movies.
Was afraid of that, but couldn't remember for sure.

When you say per movie, you're saying that you set it once and leave it alone (which is what I do - I find the middle position is generally pretty close..)?

You're not saying the player "remembers" this setting per-movie / disc, correct?
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Is there a way to stream HBO now with the ub900?

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post #4490 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 01:30 PM
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Is there a way to stream HBO now with the ub900?
No. get a ROKU or other streaming device. I do not think any player offers HBONow or HBOGo

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post #4491 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcl View Post
When you say per movie, you're saying that you set it once and leave it alone (which is what I do - I find the middle position is generally pretty close..)?

You're not saying the player "remembers" this setting per-movie / disc, correct?
Correct (I tend to like the middle position as well...when I need to use it).

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post #4492 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by teachsac View Post
No. get a ROKU or other streaming device. I do not think any player offers HBONow or HBOGo
Thanks. My xbox one x can stream it. But I thought it my look better on the Panny (Netflix looks better on the Panny than my Xbox). That's too bad. I may have to cancel my stand alone HBO Now and get it through Amazon. This way, should be able to play it through the Panny.

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post #4493 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcl View Post
I think HDR>SDR and Tone Mapping are basically the same thing.

I don't think you can convert w/out tone mapping - otherwise you'd just have to reduce the video level uniformly across the board, leading to very dark video.

I think the difference in the Oppo's approach (which doesn't work quite right ATM...) and the upcoming Panasonics (supposedly) will be dynamic tone mapping.

That's my understanding anyway.

FWIW, I prefer the (apparently) "static" 900 HDR>SDR as compared to the dynamic Oppo 203 (at least in its current implementation).

The Oppo has some great control over how it does the conversion, and it sometimes looks great, but sometimes it's way off and has very obvious artifacts. FW needs some work, IMO, but could be great if they get it to work predictably.

They aren't the same thing at all. Conversion is a one stop approach to deal with HDR. The full SDR conversion eliminates BT.2020 straight away, something you don't want to lose in the process of a creating tone mapping for an HDR display. Tone mapping allows control over various levels in the HDR image, allowing you to create a customised output as well.
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post #4494 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
They aren't the same thing at all. Conversion is a one stop approach to deal with HDR. The full SDR conversion eliminates BT.2020 straight away, something you don't want to lose in the process of a creating tone mapping for an HDR display. Tone mapping allows control over various levels in the HDR image, allowing you to create a customised output as well.
My apologies - I wasn't clear, but since we're in the 900 thread I assumed we were both talking about the preservation of bt2020 in the conversion process (just as the mentioned Oppo does).

The luminance portion is the part I was referring to, and that is - again, as I understand it - a mix of level adjustments and tone mapping (even if the term "tone mapping" isn't used - like in the 900).

I'd venture to say that HDR>SDR even w/out preserving bt2020 would involve tone mapping, as well, but it's just a guess.

Without at least rudimentary tone mapping I think you'd have a difficult or impossible time doing the conversion with video levels alone. Tone mapping is essentially compressing some of the luminance range closer together, which is beneficial in situations such as attempting to render highlights at the bright end of the spectrum with some gradation w/out blowing all the detail out.

Anyway, I think we're saying the same thing, but the difference I think between "New" panasonic players and the 900 would / might be that it performs the tone mapping dynamically, with some type of real-time analytical video processing I don't think the 900 is capable of.

As mentioned, the Oppo attempts same, but with marginal results (IMO, anyway).
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post #4495 of 4784 Old 05-23-2018, 09:09 PM
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I know on my Sony 49" XBR-830C tv with the UB900 and SDR BT.709 conversion using the Sony test patterns that go up to 10000 nits, it clips content over 1000 nits. I imagine if you have a tv with a better contrast ratio and play with the SDR slider, one could probably resolve a higher nit level than me.

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post #4496 of 4784 Old 05-24-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcl View Post
As mentioned, the Oppo attempts same, but with marginal results (IMO, anyway).
I find it interesting that Oppo owners tolerate poor/degraded performance for months (if not a year now) with the hope of that next firmware update. Now that they have ended hardware production (albeit with a promise of product support)...at what point do you move on to something that "works"?
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post #4497 of 4784 Old 05-24-2018, 12:50 PM
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Are there any region free options for the UB900?
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post #4498 of 4784 Old 05-24-2018, 01:29 PM
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Are there any region free options for the UB900?
Not that can be discussed on AVS.

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post #4499 of 4784 Old 05-24-2018, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
I find it interesting that Oppo owners tolerate poor/degraded performance for months (if not a year now) with the hope of that next firmware update. Now that they have ended hardware production (albeit with a promise of product support)...at what point do you move on to something that "works"?
I bought the 900 in the beginning for HDR>SDR w/ bt2020 when the 203 had HDR>SDR issues. Still have the 900.

Bought a 203 later because I realized the 900 didn't do a lot of stuff. Still have the 203 also.

You "move on to something that works" when what you're using it for doesn't work.

Playing networked BluRay and 4K Bluray rips with atmos, playing SACDs, DVDAs or network rips of same, native resolution output, HDMI input processing etc...

While the 900 is a great player, Let me know when you get one to do those things...

I couldn't manage to get my 900 to do those things so I did move on to something that did - a 203. But I kept my 900 because it did some good things too.

Sometimes you need 2 different things to get 2 different things done.
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post #4500 of 4784 Old 05-25-2018, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcl View Post
My apologies - I wasn't clear, but since we're in the 900 thread I assumed we were both talking about the preservation of bt2020 in the conversion process (just as the mentioned Oppo does).

The luminance portion is the part I was referring to, and that is - again, as I understand it - a mix of level adjustments and tone mapping (even if the term "tone mapping" isn't used - like in the 900).

I'd venture to say that HDR>SDR even w/out preserving bt2020 would involve tone mapping, as well, but it's just a guess.

Without at least rudimentary tone mapping I think you'd have a difficult or impossible time doing the conversion with video levels alone. Tone mapping is essentially compressing some of the luminance range closer together, which is beneficial in situations such as attempting to render highlights at the bright end of the spectrum with some gradation w/out blowing all the detail out.

Anyway, I think we're saying the same thing, but the difference I think between "New" panasonic players and the 900 would / might be that it performs the tone mapping dynamically, with some type of real-time analytical video processing I don't think the 900 is capable of.

As mentioned, the Oppo attempts same, but with marginal results (IMO, anyway).

I not sure I follow your logic there. Why would we assume the preservation of BT2020 with the Panasonic in HDR-SDR conversion process given the 900 has never done that? The Oppo which I also own, originally only did a version of the same SDR-HDR downconversion until its proper (w/proven flawed colour gamut) tone-mapping feature came out in the beta software a little while back.



The 900's HDR/SDR conversion is a very basic conversion process compared to user adjustable tone mapping with multiple parameters. As far as user adjustability goes, all the 900 presents us with is a single DR conversion adjustment slider to do a very course adjustment of the image. So while it could be said there's a 'tone mapping' process going on, it's very elementary at best.



Regarding the new players, there's no need to speculate on a 'dynamic' tone mapping scenario, it's not the case. We can already see thanks to Robert Zahn at Value Electronics, what the tone mapping menu on the 820 contains:
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