Panasonic DMP-UB900 thread. - Page 151 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4501 of 4761 Old 05-25-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
I not sure I follow your logic there. Why would we assume the preservation of BT2020 with the Panasonic in HDR-SDR conversion process given the 900 has never done that? The Oppo which I also own, originally only did a version of the same SDR-HDR downconversion until its proper (w/proven flawed colour gamut) tone-mapping feature came out in the beta software a little while back.



The 900's HDR/SDR conversion is a very basic conversion process compared to user adjustable tone mapping with multiple parameters. As far as user adjustability goes, all the 900 presents us with is a single DR conversion adjustment slider to do a very course adjustment of the image. So while it could be said there's a 'tone mapping' process going on, it's very elementary at best.



Regarding the new players, there's no need to speculate on a 'dynamic' tone mapping scenario, it's not the case. We can already see thanks to Robert Zahn at Value Electronics, what the tone mapping menu on the 820 contains
I assumed that because The 900 DOES do that - "that" being HDR>SDR w/ BT2020 intact. You just need a display that can do that (or an HDFury device that can manipulate the EDID, which is what I've used since the 900 came out, to feed HDR>SDR w/ BT2020 to my JVC PJ).

Agree that the Oppo offers more control over how HDR>SDR (when preserving BT2020) is handled, but with the caveat of not only the color gamut issue, but also the potential for severe artifacting depending on scenes and settings. This has been my experience, anyway.

Instead of using the Oppo HDR>SDR capability, I find using a custom gamma curve for this purpose with my JVC provides more predictable and natural-looking results, but IMO the 900 / HDFury HDR>SDR process w/ "normal" gamma is the best solution for HDR material on my JVC, even if it is a "simple" system. It looks very good to me, and I've never seen artifacting outside of slightly blown out whites or slightly dark shadows, once the Slider is set (which usually does OK in the middle setting for me, w/out adj.).

I think it's agreed that the tone mapping portion of what the 900 is doing is fixed, but it is tone mapping nevertheless - it has to. The slider, as you mention, is the only adjustment, and from my experience just sets the basic luminance point of reference for it's static tone mapping.

Was unaware of any specifics on new Panasonic players - thanks for pointing that out and posting screen shot. Appears to be additional control -vs- 900 though, so it will be interesting to see some more commentary on these.
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post #4502 of 4761 Old 05-25-2018, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
I not sure I follow your logic there. Why would we assume the preservation of BT2020 with the Panasonic in HDR-SDR conversion process given the 900 has never done that? The Oppo which I also own, originally only did a version of the same SDR-HDR downconversion until its proper (w/proven flawed colour gamut) tone-mapping feature came out in the beta software a little while back.



The 900's HDR/SDR conversion is a very basic conversion process compared to user adjustable tone mapping with multiple parameters. As far as user adjustability goes, all the 900 presents us with is a single DR conversion adjustment slider to do a very course adjustment of the image. So while it could be said there's a 'tone mapping' process going on, it's very elementary at best.



Regarding the new players, there's no need to speculate on a 'dynamic' tone mapping scenario, it's not the case. We can already see thanks to Robert Zahn at Value Electronics, what the tone mapping menu on the 820 contains
I assumed that because The 900 DOES do that - "that" being HDR>SDR w/ BT2020 intact. You just need a display that can do that (or an HDFury device that can manipulate the EDID, which is what I've used since the 900 came out, to feed HDR>SDR w/ BT2020 to my JVC PJ).

Agree that the Oppo offers more control over how HDR>SDR (when preserving BT2020) is handled, but with the caveat of not only the color gamut issue, but also the potential for severe artifacting depending on scenes and settings. This has been my experience, anyway.

Instead of using the Oppo HDR>SDR capability, I find using a custom gamma curve for this purpose with my JVC provides more predictable and natural-looking results, but IMO the 900 / HDFury HDR>SDR process w/ "normal" gamma is the best solution for HDR material on my JVC, even if it is a "simple" system. It looks very good to me, and I've never seen artifacting outside of slightly blown out whites or slightly dark shadows, once the Slider is set (which usually does OK in the middle setting for me, w/out adj.).

I think it's agreed that the tone mapping portion of what the 900 is doing is fixed, but it is tone mapping nevertheless - it has to. The slider, as you mention, is the only adjustment, and from my experience just sets the basic luminance point of reference for it's static tone mapping.

Was unaware of any specifics on new Panasonic players - thanks for pointing that out and posting screen shot. Appears to be additional control -vs- 900 though, so it will be interesting to see some more commentary on these.
Ahh yes most of us, especially JVC owners are well aware that you can spend the extra money on a HD Fury Linker or Vertex to achieve BT2020. However we are talking out the box operation with the UB900, which is a different proposition if you don't spend the extra $180-$350 on the linker or more expensive vertex.

You can continue to call the basic conversion process tone mapping in the 900 but for all intents it isn't the tone mapping feature that most of us here on the forums would consider as that, especially when placed along side much more fully formed options such as MadVR, The Lumagen Radiance, or The Oppos implementation. I'm fairly certain guys like @Javs and @zombie10k would agree on this as well. When you talk about your JVC and using 'normal gamma', it sounds like you haven't even experimented with custom gamma curves? Until you've seen that, or even seen tone mapping with a Radiance or even with the adjustability the Oppo provides, you won't be truly aware of what is possible image-wise on your JVC with HDR material. I'd strongly encourage you to explore the options, particularly custom curves given they cost nothing.

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post #4503 of 4761 Old 05-25-2018, 09:35 PM
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It's probably been mentioned somewhere in the last 150 odd pages, but are the 7.1 pre outs any good?

I'm currently running an old Yamaha 5.1 system with no ARC or 4k pass through. So not having ATMOS isnt a major at the moment. But having 2 extra channels would be nice.

Or is it possible to add a 2 channel Amp to give me the 2 extra channels? or does it not work like that.

Thanks

Alex
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post #4504 of 4761 Old 05-26-2018, 07:10 AM
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It's probably been mentioned somewhere in the last 150 odd pages, but are the 7.1 pre outs any good?

I'm currently running an old Yamaha 5.1 system with no ARC or 4k pass through. So not having ATMOS isnt a major at the moment. But having 2 extra channels would be nice.

Or is it possible to add a 2 channel Amp to give me the 2 extra channels? or does it not work like that.

Thanks

Alex
It would (adding a 2 channel amp)...and they are (analog pre-outs work as advertised)...but I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
IMHO, 2 Atmos channels trump 2 additional surrounds, and if you have a 4k player but not a 4k AVR (which I assume means no HDMI 2.0a), then I would put my $ into upgrading the AVR (which gives you better processing all the way around).
Check my sig and you'll see we like the same "brands", but upgrading the entire signal chain will pay off in the long run.

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post #4505 of 4761 Old 05-26-2018, 08:06 AM
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Ahh yes most of us, especially JVC owners are well aware that you can spend the extra money on a HD Fury Linker or Vertex to achieve BT2020. However we are talking out the box operation with the UB900, which is a different proposition if you don't spend the extra $180-$350 on the linker or more expensive vertex.

You can continue to call the basic conversion process tone mapping in the 900 but for all intents it isn't the tone mapping feature that most of us here on the forums would consider as that, especially when placed along side much more fully formed options such as MadVR, The Lumagen Radiance, or The Oppos implementation. I'm fairly certain guys like @Javs would agree on this as well. When you talk about your JVC and using 'normal gamma', it sounds like you haven't even experimented with custom gamma curves? Until you've seen that, or even seen tone mapping with a Radiance or even with the adjustability the Oppo provides, you won't be truly aware of what is possible image-wise on your JVC with HDR material. I'd strongly encourage you to explore the options, particularly custom curves given they cost nothing.
I was never talking out of the box operation - I had just mentioned my 900 / HDFury combo, ergo my comments re: bt2020 HDR>SDR.

"Tone mapping" isn't a new term that is for HDR video or for the AVS Forum - it's an imaging term that I and other photographers (among others in the imaging world) often use and have used for quite some time to push or pull dynamic range to fit a particular need; so some here use at as it as classically defined, but I'm sure others may limit it to a particular application.

Not sure you're reading my entire comments before answering, but you say that "it sounds like you haven't even experimented with custom gamma curves? Until you've seen that...or even the adjustability the Oppo provides, you won't be truly aware of what is possible image-wise on your JVC with HDR material. I'd strongly encourage you to explore the options, particularly custom curves

I say this because - I just mentioned in the post you were replying to that "I prefer a custom gamma curve to using the Oppo 203's HDR>SDR tone mapping" - So clearly I have seen (and use) custom gamma curves, and have seen the Oppo's tone mapping / conversion and all its possible adjustments (remember - I have one..)???

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post #4506 of 4761 Old 05-28-2018, 12:05 AM
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I was never talking out of the box operation - I had just mentioned my 900 / HDFury combo, ergo my comments re: bt2020 HDR>SDR.

"Tone mapping" isn't a new term that is for HDR video or for the AVS Forum - it's an imaging term that I and other photographers (among others in the imaging world) often use and have used for quite some time to push or pull dynamic range to fit a particular need; so some here use at as it as classically defined, but I'm sure others may limit it to a particular application.

Not sure you're reading my entire comments before answering, but you say that "it sounds like you haven't even experimented with custom gamma curves? Until you've seen that...or even the adjustability the Oppo provides, you won't be truly aware of what is possible image-wise on your JVC with HDR material. I'd strongly encourage you to explore the options, particularly custom curves

I say this because - I just mentioned in the post you were replying to that "I prefer a custom gamma curve to using the Oppo 203's HDR>SDR tone mapping" - So clearly I have seen (and use) custom gamma curves, and have seen the Oppo's tone mapping / conversion and all its possible adjustments (remember - I have one..)???

You may have never been talking about out of the box operation, but its a major point for those following this thread and I wanted to highlight that aspect of the discussion about adding the extra cost of a Linker or Vertex into the chain when used in the said example of the JVC projectors.



We aren't having a discussion photography though and how it relates to tone-mapping as you would apply it in your trade as a photographer. I don't see the point in making that comparison or statement in this discussion of methods of tone-mapping and how they related to the UB900.


I extend my apologies there on only picking up your mention of standard gamma use with the HDFury and 900. I must have missed this in my slightly rushed intake of while reading your post in between busily trying to get stuff done on my Saturday. I don't normally miss such info - again apols there. Glad that you do use the custom gammas and can appreciate them. In knowing that, it kind of brings me to the point, why are we debating the merits of UB900 SDR-HDR conversion in either BT2020 flavor or other so much?? To those who have the ability it makes immense sense use such custom gamma curves in terms of the achieving top quality results with HDR. Alternatively, rather than adding in the HDFury option, those looking at purchasing a player would pretty sensible to hold off a few weeks for the UB820 to be released to get what should be a very up to date implementation of out of the box BT2020 tone-mapping .

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post #4507 of 4761 Old 05-29-2018, 10:14 AM
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Was about to pull the trigger on a Oppo UDP-203 when I saw the Panasonic UB820 is due out by July. Can anyone here maybe provide some perspective into the differences and why to go with one vs. the other? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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post #4508 of 4761 Old 05-30-2018, 09:18 AM
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Was about to pull the trigger on a Oppo UDP-203 when I saw the Panasonic UB820 is due out by July. Can anyone here maybe provide some perspective into the differences and why to go with one vs. the other? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
How about Oppo is going out of business and Panasonic isn't?
Otherwise there's plenty of reason to believe the UB820 will be as good (if not better) of a performer as the UB900...which has proven to be one of the best pieced of CE equipment I've ever owned.
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Was about to pull the trigger on a Oppo UDP-203 when I saw the Panasonic UB820 is due out by July. Can anyone here maybe provide some perspective into the differences and why to go with one vs. the other? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Biggest differences is Dolby Vision support now along with playing all kinds of audio media. The UB820 is no different then the UB900 in those audio regards. Panasonic has provided some FW updates for the UB900, see this link, but the new UB820 will likely by later then sooner because Dolby Vision (both variations) support it needs to get working. This is their first go around with that. Both products maintain a similar interface through model evolution. Biggest PITA is the regional mods, this is one area most Panasonic owners won't contest, just look out on the web. BTW Stanton, Oppo Digital is only ceasing manufacturing not support/warranty that is scheduled for years out as the US subsidiary of its parent converts to a new/separate company from its parent.

Enjoy your UB900 players guys!

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post #4510 of 4761 Old 05-30-2018, 07:28 PM
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Was about to pull the trigger on a Oppo UDP-203 when I saw the Panasonic UB820 is due out by July. Can anyone here maybe provide some perspective into the differences and why to go with one vs. the other? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!



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How about Oppo is going out of business and Panasonic isn't?
Otherwise there's plenty of reason to believe the UB820 will be as good (if not better) of a performer as the UB900...which has proven to be one of the best pieced of CE equipment I've ever owned.
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Biggest differences is Dolby Vision support now along with playing all kinds of audio media. The UB820 is no different then the UB900 in those audio regards. Panasonic has provided some FW updates for the UB900, see this link, but the new UB820 will likely by later then sooner because Dolby Vision (both variations) support it needs to get working. This is their first go around with that. Both products maintain a similar interface through model evolution. Biggest PITA is the regional mods, this is one area most Panasonic owners won't contest, just look out on the web. BTW Stanton, Oppo Digital is only ceasing manufacturing not support/warranty that is scheduled for years out as the US subsidiary of its parent converts to a new/separate company from its parent.

Enjoy your UB900 players guys!

I had a reply to the OP ready yesterday and got to busy and did come back to it. So as mentioned the Oppo 203 is out of production but as also mentioned not out of business at all. Other than that most people seem to prefer Panasonic's PQ in the existing 900 (I know I do owning both), so you'd be fairly confident in saying the 820 will have no less PQ with the addition of an adjustable tone-mapping feature akin to the Oppo's but one would expect without the colour gamut issue the Oppo currently has with it's tone-mapping feature (if that at all matters to you). Whether a new firmware as rumored turns up is another question - I for one would like it in my 203 for use with in the system where I have my old JVC RS600. Aside from that there's the Dolby Vision as already mentioned, but also HDR 10+ in the UB820.
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post #4511 of 4761 Old 06-02-2018, 05:44 AM
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my 900 all of a sudden will not play dts-hd and atmos soundtracks on 4k movies only it down grades them.The soundracks work fine on regular blu-ray and when i load a 4k movie i get message to hook up to 4k tv to optomize viewing which i have.I changed hdmi cable no help it just started going this ant ideals?
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post #4512 of 4761 Old 06-02-2018, 06:56 AM
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my 900 all of a sudden will not play dts-hd and atmos soundtracks on 4k movies only it down grades them.The soundracks work fine on regular blu-ray and when i load a 4k movie i get message to hook up to 4k tv to optomize viewing which i have.I changed hdmi cable no help it just started going this ant ideals?
Need more info: what is your complete signal chain (UHD->TV)?

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Need more info: what is your complete signal chain (UHD->TV)?
Have a sony 900e tv.Panny hooked into denon 2400 blu ray input then tv out in receiver to hdmi 2 input on sony
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I'm interested in this player because ofi ts audio options...analog out, etc....something which Oppo offered. But is this capable of multi region playback, as was possible with Oppo? If not, is there a way to unlock multi region?

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post #4515 of 4761 Old 06-02-2018, 09:30 AM
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Not that can be discussed on AVS.
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I'm interested in this player because ofi ts audio options...analog out, etc....something which Oppo offered. But is this capable of multi region playback, as was possible with Oppo? If not, is there a way to unlock multi region?
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I just saw a review on YouTube from Vincent Teoh about the forthcoming 4k 9000. It will have HDR optimization for projector, OLED and LCD’s that don’t already use Dolby Vision or other default tone mapping. This could go a long way toward correcting some of the variations in HDR implementation of some discs.


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post #4517 of 4761 Old 06-02-2018, 10:34 AM
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Need more info: what is your complete signal chain (UHD->TV)?
Like I said regular Blu-ray hi res auio works just not 4k version.Does it sound like player going bad and is there a way to do hard restart which could help?Thanks
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post #4518 of 4761 Old 06-02-2018, 11:31 AM
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my 900 all of a sudden will not play dts-hd and atmos soundtracks on 4k movies only it down grades them.The soundracks work fine on regular blu-ray and when i load a 4k movie i get message to hook up to 4k tv to optomize viewing which i have.I changed hdmi cable no help it just started going this ant ideals?
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Have a sony 900e tv.Panny hooked into denon 2400 blu ray input then tv out in receiver to hdmi 2 input on sony
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Like I said regular Blu-ray hi res auio works just not 4k version.Does it sound like player going bad and is there a way to do hard restart which could help?Thanks
I doubt the player is going "bad"; a hard restart never hurts (search this thread for the key sequence).
The message "hook up to 4k tv to optimize viewing" indicates it could be something downstream; have you tried connecting directly to the TV (bypass AVR) or other ports on the AVR? I assume all your cables are 4k certified?

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Anyone know how to do hard reboot on the 900?Thanks
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I doubt the player is going "bad"; a hard restart never hurts (search this thread for the key sequence).
The message "hook up to 4k tv to optimize viewing" indicates it could be something downstream; have you tried connecting directly to the TV (bypass AVR) or other ports on the AVR? I assume all your cables are 4k certified?
YEA all 4k cables just weird it will play blu-ray hi res audio and not 4k disc hi res audio.will test later other variables thanks
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I just saw a review on YouTube from Vincent Teoh about the forthcoming 4k 9000. It will have HDR optimization for projector, OLED and LCD’s that don’t already use Dolby Vision or other default tone mapping. This could go a long way toward correcting some of the variations in HDR implementation of some discs.


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That sounds awesome!
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post #4522 of 4761 Old 06-03-2018, 11:40 AM
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Anyone know how to do hard reboot on the 900?Thanks
I've read this will do it but have also read step #1 is wrong and the unit should be off not on. http://eng.faq.panasonic.com/app/ans...factory-preset

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post #4523 of 4761 Old 06-10-2018, 02:16 AM
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HI everyone! i need some help im not sure if my issue has been covered already. I recently bought a the sony str dn 1080 and im trying to watch netflix on my ub900. For some reason i get a message saying (content cannot be displayed. to display, please connect with hdmi imput which supports hdcp 2.2 on tv.) has anyone else ever gotten this error? Ive been watching netflix on my old yamaha and ub900 for a while now. I still have the same projector (epson 2150) inputs and connections are all the same. can anyone tell me what the problem might be? is it the the new receiver or is there some type of handshake issue with the ub900? please help.
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post #4524 of 4761 Old 06-10-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dastodavid View Post
HI everyone! i need some help im not sure if my issue has been covered already. I recently bought a the sony str dn 1080 and im trying to watch netflix on my ub900. For some reason i get a message saying (content cannot be displayed. to display, please connect with hdmi imput which supports hdcp 2.2 on tv.) has anyone else ever gotten this error? Ive been watching netflix on my old yamaha and ub900 for a while now. I still have the same projector (epson 2150) inputs and connections are all the same. can anyone tell me what the problem might be? is it the the new receiver or is there some type of handshake issue with the ub900? please help.
If the only thing that has changed in your signal chain is the Receiver...then it's probably the Receiver.
I would check for an HDMI port "mode" setting; there may be a 4k "switch" in software. Yamaha has something similar (Mode 1 vs Mode 2), although it doesn't prevent proper handshaking; Sony could be different.

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post #4525 of 4761 Old 06-12-2018, 01:25 AM
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If the only thing that has changed in your signal chain is the Receiver...then it's probably the Receiver.
I would check for an HDMI port "mode" setting; there may be a 4k "switch" in software. Yamaha has something similar (Mode 1 vs Mode 2), although it doesn't prevent proper handshaking; Sony could be different.
thanks for the response! I managed to fix my problem! I read that if you use a hdmi splitter, you can bypass the hdcp in the connection. I had an old Darbee sitting around and decided to link it between the av and the bluray player. now i can watch netflix on it again.
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post #4526 of 4761 Old 06-14-2018, 10:21 AM
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So my DMP-UB900 just did a firmware update to 1.80 yesterday. I'm happy because the player can now stream Amazon Prime in Canada. Don't need to use my laptop with an HDMI cable running across the carpet to my AVR anymore or buy something like a Roku, FireStick, etc
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post #4527 of 4761 Old 06-14-2018, 12:07 PM
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It also showed up on my DX900.


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post #4528 of 4761 Old 06-15-2018, 05:16 AM
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Any one knows more about the new 180 fw changes ibtroduced other than what is already posted here ?
Pan site as usual has no real info about
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post #4529 of 4761 Old 06-15-2018, 01:13 PM
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Any one knows more about the new 180 fw changes ibtroduced other than what is already posted here ?
Pan site as usual has no real info about
"Network Service Comparability". According to a couple of poster above mine it can now stream Amazon so I guess they made it "compatible" with more streaming services. http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/...b900_euro.html

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post #4530 of 4761 Old 06-19-2018, 03:51 PM
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Anyone experience any differences between the 5ghz radio and 2ghz using stuff like Amazon or Netflix? Just curious, sometimes one works better than the other on certain devices.

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