Official Samsung UBD-K8500 4K HDR Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player Owner's Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Helphrey View Post
Has anyone else had an issue when watching a movie everything goes black and then resets to 1080? I've had it happen a couple times now while watching a blu-ray.

I've got a Vizio 70" P series with a Yamaha RX-V379 AVR and the K8500. I have Amazon Basics high speed HDMI cables running from the player through HDMI4 on the AVR which is labeled hdcp 2.2 to HDMI5 on the TV which is the fast port there.

I'm stumped.
Yes I have encountered that same issue with my M80 and Yamaha receiver as well. I am not certain what causes the issue yet.
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post #272 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
Yes but be aware that it isn't HDR anymore if you are turning wcg and 10 bit off. You are watching SDR if you do that. Still good but not what everyone is truly after.
Not a good start by Samsung messing up HDR on the player.
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post #273 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
You have to remember that the TV takes over when HDR content is detected. You aren't calibrating for REC.709 at all with HDR content. The TV takes over and figures out what it has to do to get from REC.2020 down to what your TV can display. The manufacture of the TV has programmed in what the TV is capable of displaying so the TV can use the HDR headers to determine how it needs to adjust the content to prevent clipping.

Anyone trying manually adjust the colors with an HDR TV is just going to mess it up. If you go higher you will clip. If you go lower you will not be utilizing the full extent of what the TV is capable of.

Now that being said it is entirely possible that some manufactures put a buffer in there to guarantee that the TV won't clip any content. The TV may be capable of "slightly" more put the manufacturer doesn't want to risk going over so they reduce it just a bit. Still in that case I wouldn't risk trying to reduce that buffer. It isn't worth it.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post40072842


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post40335522

This is what I am referring to and why I say Chad mentioned a "2020 cal". I think you have to input 709 and cal, and then input for WCG in another mode and adjust it as needed. You then use one mode or the other depending on what you are watching, just like 2D vs 3D. Now will it be perfect? No. Will it be better than just crossing your fingers and letting the display do it? Probably.

Ill drop it though until he comes out to do it, because I have not researched it enough to go back and forth over it. I know he is keeping up with it and Calman.
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post #274 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 12:59 PM
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So I turned deep color on again today....Not sure if a FW update pushed to the K8500 last night, but it didn't cause the huge pixelation today....And my pic info listed as YUV 12-bit HDR when deep color was on, as opposed to YUV 10-bit HDR with deep color off....Curiously enough, with deep color on, the image brightened just the slightest bit but fairly negligible. But more importantly, I noticed that metal had this super shine to it and reflections seemed almost real...

I still had to turn RS400 bulb to high lamp and had to crank brightness to max....I also cranked the rest of the gamma D settings to max as well.
The blacks and whites look good just everything is super super dim....It's really like I need to apply even more brightness to make things more noticeable in dark scenes.
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post #275 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
So I turned deep color on again today....Not sure if a FW update pushed to the K8500 last night, but it didn't cause the huge pixelation today....And my pic info listed as YUV 12-bit HDR when deep color was on, as opposed to YUV 10-bit HDR with deep color off....Curiously enough, with deep color on, the image brightened just the slightest bit but fairly negligible. But more importantly, I noticed that metal had this super shine to it and reflections seemed almost real...

I still had to turn RS400 bulb to high lamp and had to crank brightness to max....I also cranked the rest of the gamma D settings to max as well.
The blacks and whites look good just everything is super super dim....It's really like I need to apply even more brightness to make things more noticeable in dark scenes.
So it sounds like you get HDR whether it is on or off. That's better.
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post #276 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
So it sounds like you get HDR whether it is on or off. That's better.
According to the pj, the input is HDR whether with or without deep color. IMO, deep color made the pic look more real (despite being overly dim) but colors looked realistic, whites were white, and blacks were black in either setting.

I've not seen banding issues in either setting. Fantastic Four is great for setup for one reason: It's such a crappy movie, you don't mind fidgeting with settings and ignoring the plotless story to evaluate PQ! You know you're not missing anything and the story line surely won't distract you and make you forget to focus strictly on imaging!
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post #277 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:17 PM
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I agree worth some that things could have been tested more before release. On the other hand we as early adopters should expect no less.

It will all pan out with a little trial and error....

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post #278 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
Yes I have encountered that same issue with my M80 and Yamaha receiver as well. I am not certain what causes the issue yet.
My Pioneer SC-95 displays an HDCP error at the beginning of playing these discs but syncs in 4k immediately after. I have the M80 as well. I'm not experiencing any screen blackouts. Probably points to a cable or receiver issue. I'm considering picking up a different cable from the AVR to the TV as it's 35tft long. Just to test.

I should have said that if I connect the 7500 directly to the TV, there is no issue and no HDCP warning.
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post #279 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post40072842


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post40335522

This is what I am referring to and why I say Chad mentioned a "2020 cal". I think you have to input 709 and cal, and then input for WCG in another mode and adjust it as needed. You then use one mode or the other depending on what you are watching, just like 2D vs 3D. Now will it be perfect? No. Will it be better than just crossing your fingers and letting the display do it? Probably.

Ill drop it though until he comes out to do it, because I have not researched it enough to go back and forth over it. I know he is keeping up with it and Calman.

My Sony switches to a tweakable HDR mode automatically when I stream HDR to it. Will be interesting to see if it behaves the same way with this player and only switches when it sees HDR headers.
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post #280 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
How does the picture look between both?
The picture looks more what I expected it to look like hdr/color wise with deep color etc turned off. But it's not blowing me away. Makes sense though if there is a problem with the player. Has anyone reached out to or heard anything from Samsung about a fix? I can't help but feel like if we aren't using uhd color then we are all missing out.

Does anyone think it's possible that it's an HDMI cable issue?
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post #281 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
I find it interesting that everyone thinks they can figure out what the limits of the display are better than the manufacturer can.
There can variations between two "identical" displays. Calibration is about figuring out where a particular display diverges from accuracy within the boundaries of what that display should be capable of achieving and the standard being applied. What is needed is a precise profile for each particular display to use as a reference for what that display can achieve. Once that is known, we have a target we can try to hit.

As far as trusting the manufacturer to calibrate their displays goes, since when has every TV in a particular model line matched every other TV in that same model line with out of the box settings? This also ignores the role that viewing environment plays in proper calibration. Should we trust the ambient light sensor to automatically adjust the TV's HDR settings for optimal viewing in both well-lit and dark room viewing environments?
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post #282 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
There can variations between two "identical" displays. Calibration is about figuring out where a particular display diverges from accuracy within the boundaries of what that display should be capable of achieving and the standard being applied. What is needed is a precise profile for each particular display to use as a reference for what that display can achieve. Once that is known, we have a target we can try to hit.

As far as trusting the manufacturer to calibrate their displays goes, since when has every TV in a particular model line matched every other TV in that same model line with out of the box settings? This also ignores the role that viewing environment plays in proper calibration. Should we trust the ambient light sensor to automatically adjust the TV's HDR settings for optimal viewing in both well-lit and dark room viewing environments?
That is exactly what the problem is. You don't know exactly what the display is capable of and what it is capable of may vary depending on temperature, hours of use, or a number of other settings. I am still baffled at why everyone thinks they can do it better than the manufacturer.


The manufacturer probably has a buffer in there that slightly underestimates its capabilities. That is a prudent thing to do to avoid clipping.

If you are saying that you can determine the full extent of the displays capabilities, with greater precision and accuracy than the manufacturer can, and then adjust the limited settings to reduce that buffer and get even closer to the display’s full potential then “have at it”.

I for one doubt that you can and think you are wasting your time even trying to do that.
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post #283 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
So I turned deep color on again today....Not sure if a FW update pushed to the K8500 last night, but it didn't cause the huge pixelation today....And my pic info listed as YUV 12-bit HDR when deep color was on, as opposed to YUV 10-bit HDR with deep color off....Curiously enough, with deep color on, the image brightened just the slightest bit but fairly negligible. But more importantly, I noticed that metal had this super shine to it and reflections seemed almost real...

I still had to turn RS400 bulb to high lamp and had to crank brightness to max....I also cranked the rest of the gamma D settings to max as well.
The blacks and whites look good just everything is super super dim....It's really like I need to apply even more brightness to make things more noticeable in dark scenes.
So deep color ON outputs 12 bits, and deep color OFF outputs 10 bit???
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post #284 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:36 PM
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Handshaking ISSUE FIXED

AFTER TWO DAYS of tests and taking the K8500 player to Best Buy, I bought a 24ft Rocketfish HDMI cable at BB and ran the cable on the floor for the test and the handshake between the X550R and the Samsung K8500 was PERFECT.

The problem was I having was NO PICTURE when the signal from the player was 60Hz using a Monoprice cable that says it was rated for 60Hz at 2160p output. I had no uses with 2160p 24fps signal. The player menu for the K8500 runs at 60Hz.

Now I need to buy a second 24ft Rocketfish cable and use a connector between the two cables to make the 40ft run between the Denon X2200 and the X550R. Hopefully that will work with two cables.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Bkelley3rd View Post
I finally got a signal from the K8500 to the JVC DLA-X550R. Once I loaded a disc into the player the projector recognized the signal and output an upconverted 4K image of Spectre, which looks VERY GOOD. Maybe a little better image than the one produced from the upconverted Oppo 103 4K image. Once you remove the disc the projector doesn't show the players menu screen. With the disc back into the player I can access the players menu at that point. SO WEIRD!
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post #285 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:37 PM
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So deep color ON outputs 12 bits, and deep color OFF outputs 10 bit???
Fact...I can send screen shots if you don't believe me...
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post #286 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:39 PM
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Fact...I can send screen shots if you don't believe me...
I believe you but could you send screen shots anyway? Are you seeing this information in the receiver or in the display?
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post #287 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:41 PM
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Wink

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Originally Posted by Bkelley3rd View Post
AFTER TWO DAYS of tests and taking the K8500 player to Best Buy, I bought a 24ft Rocketfish HDMI cable at BB and ran the cable on the floor for the test and the handshake between the X550R and the Samsung K8500 was PERFECT.

The problem was I having was NO PICTURE when the signal from the player was 60Hz using a Monoprice cable that says it was rated for 60Hz at 2160p output. I had no uses with 2160p 24fps signal. The player menu for the K8500 runs at 60Hz.

Now I need to buy a second 24ft Rocketfish cable and use a connector between the two cables to make the 40ft run between the Denon X2200 and the X550R. Hopefully that will work with two cables.
The Samsung K8500 outputs 4K/UHD @ 60 FPS 4:4:4 for the menus. That requires the full 18 GB/sec bandwidth which some cables either don’t support or barely/intermittently support.

You definitely need reliable high speed cables with the K8500. I am switching mine out today because I am having dropout issues as well.
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post #288 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
I believe you but could you send screen shots anyway? Are you seeing this information in the receiver or in the display?
It's in the video input info of my PJ...I actually can't send pics though..I can't put on the K8500 and RS400 menus simultaneously short of showing one or the other, so it would only show half the story....

Attached pic is deep color off....When on, it's identical except it says 12 bits....
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post #289 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:45 PM
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According to the most trustworthy internet...It says REC2020 for UHD can be 10 or 12bit...
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post #290 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:48 PM
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Deep color on has always reported 444 12 bit color depth hasnt it?

I think the fact that the player reports 10 bit with DC off instead of 8 bit is great.

Does DC actually have anything to do with WCG and HDR, or is it still a gimmick?
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post #291 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
According to the most trustworthy internet...It says REC2020 for UHD can be 10 or 12bit...
The information stored on the disc is 10 bit (and DCI P3 color space is displayed), of course the player can output 12 bit, even a standard Blu-ray player can.....

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post #292 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
The Samsung K8500 outputs 4K/UHD @ 60 FPS 4:4:4 for the menus. That requires the full 18 GB/sec bandwidth which some cables either don’t support or barely/intermittently support.

You definitely need reliable high speed cables with the K8500. I am switching mine out today because I am having dropout issues as well.
It was doing the same with my Monoprice 18Gbps redmere cables. Got my blue jeans cable today, and no such issues. Maybe this is why people are reporting issues with deep color settings.
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post #293 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:55 PM
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Is your blue jeans active or passive? Length?

I need a 25' and I'm thinking active will help me with the 3840/60 menu and no input to pj power on. My AVR seems to boost the signal and allow things to sync, IF i play a disc first before trying to see the K8500 menu. But at that point, it's set the K8500 menu to 24fps and all is well. Running the K8500 directly to my PJ results in no picture via the same cable unless I dumb down to 1080p and then back up to 3840 via toggling EDID on PJ.
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post #294 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:56 PM
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Does a much better job upscaling blu ray to 4k than does my LG 65EF9500 OLED or my OPPO 103D.
Uh oh, people spent $600 on that Oppo.
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post #295 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 01:58 PM
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Yes I have encountered that same issue with my M80 and Yamaha receiver as well. I am not certain what causes the issue yet.
Oh joy, thanks!
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post #296 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Deep color on has always reported 444 12 bit color depth hasnt it?

I think the fact that the player reports 10 bit with DC off instead of 8 bit is great.

Does DC actually have anything to do with WCG and HDR, or is it still a gimmick?
I'm not sure it's of any use with UHD blu ray. When you go onto our LG 9500 menus, and scroll over Ultra deep color (don't click on it, just scroll) A popup will say to enable for [email protected] with color space of 4:4:4, 4:2:2, or 4:2:0. Since only the menu of the Samsung displays at 60hz, it really is useless for UHD blu ray which is at 24hz. A more expensive HDMI cable is not needed as you will still get HDR, just without bt,2020.
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post #297 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
My Pioneer SC-95 displays an HDCP error at the beginning of playing these discs but syncs in 4k immediately after. I have the M80 as well. I'm not experiencing any screen blackouts. Probably points to a cable or receiver issue. I'm considering picking up a different cable from the AVR to the TV as it's 35tft long. Just to test.

I should have said that if I connect the 7500 directly to the TV, there is no issue and no HDCP warning.
I actually just replaced the cables AND receiver.
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post #298 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
Is your blue jeans active or passive? Length?

I need a 25' and I'm thinking active will help me with the 3840/60 menu and no input to pj power on. My AVR seems to boost the signal and allow things to sync, IF i play a disc first before trying to see the K8500 menu. But at that point, it's set the K8500 menu to 24fps and all is well. Running the K8500 directly to my PJ results in no picture via the same cable unless I dumb down to 1080p and then back up to 3840 via toggling EDID on PJ.
Passive, and 6 foot. My 6 foot redmere was causing issues.
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post #299 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I'm not sure it's of any use with UHD blu ray. When you go onto our LG 9500 menus, and scroll over Ultra deep color (don't click on it, just scroll) A popup will say to enable for [email protected] with color space of 4:4:4, 4:2:2, or 4:2:0. Since only the menu of the Samsung displays at 60hz, it really is useless for UHD blu ray which is at 24hz. A more expensive HDMI cable is not needed as you will still get HDR, just without bt,2020.
Gotcha. I am thinking you have to have your settings right for WCG and HDR (if you have settings on your display), and they are coming out of the player whether you like it or not. I'd be the Deep Color setting is just the crap carried over from old and has nothing to do with WCG functionality.

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post #300 of 14234 Old 02-12-2016, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
Yes I have encountered that same issue with my M80 and Yamaha receiver as well. I am not certain what causes the issue yet.
Oh joy, thanks!
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