Official Samsung UBD-K8500 4K HDR Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player Owner's Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
@hodges69 Look at it this way...Many of the people on this thread/forum are HIGHLY knowledgable about AV setup and customization. Look at how we are all asking "Should deep color be on?" and other questions! We all are literally stumbling around in the dark not sure HOW to implement UHD HDR! That's kind of frightening. Dust really needs to settle on the new format. Not to mention handshake issues with the new 2.0a/2.2 specs! Give it 6 months and everything will be solid. But for now, if you are not a pioneering highly-technical user....I would say absolutely do NOT buy this player...Never have I had an issue that someone on AVS was unable to answer. Even people much more knowledgable than I am can't answer and don't know the answers in regards to these problems.



Additionally many companies are still working on upgrades to support the spec...JVC projectors, D&M and all AVR manufacturers etc. The support just isn't there today to do it seamlessly

Having said that, if you're willing to spend several hours doing trial-and-error and setting up custom color schemes etc....Then the payoff will be worth it. If not though, you are going to be highly disappointed if you get it to work at all.
Thanks...think I will let you young whippersnappers trailblaze for me..at 80+,I want to spend as much time as I can in a state of non-frustration! I will,however,lurk and hope for some solid settings in the near future. Appreciate your help.
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post #242 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 11:23 AM
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How do we access the players picture controls such as sharpness and color? Must have missed that last night.

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post #243 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
How do we access the players picture controls such as sharpness and color? Must have missed that last night.
You need to have a disc inserted, then go to the disc menu picture settings. once adjusted there they stay in effect.

Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #244 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 11:34 AM
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Waiting at a BB right now in IL. Was just told the actual player will not be out until April. Then I showed him my BB order and how I received it Wednesday. Now they are in the back looking for the movies. I will be shocked if I walk in out with them.

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Headed to a close Best Buy in Highland and was flat out refused. They would not even look it up in their system. Then hit BB in Merrillvile and they were awesome. Sold me a couple movies.

I am planning to compare these with the new Strato 4K and Sony 4K server. Should be a busy and fun time.

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post #245 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SnipeUout View Post
The apps currently do not support HDR. UHD disk and USB files will produce HDR.
So that's why I get HDR through my TVs apps (Samsung JS8500) and not through the apps on the UBD-8500?
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post #246 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 11:45 AM
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anyone tried hooking this up through an Elite VSX-45?
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post #247 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 11:45 AM
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Im just getting caught up. Has anyone tried a 4K blu-ray on a 1080p display? Are there any UHD blu-rays available yet?
We have to wait until March, correct?
I own Sony W900a 1080p TV. Its an extra wide color gamut display. Im just wondering if i benefit from the new UHD player.
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post #248 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
any body using the dual HMDI for audio? never done it this way.
Hi Ray,

I am using the feature as my receiver is old and won't even handle a 3D video input. I had to run my old blu ray directly to the tv and send back an inferior optical signal. Now I can keep the direct HDMI connection to the TV, and run the audio HDMI to the receiver (getting PCM audio). Also, I have the option of just playing BR audio through the TV - not sure what's causing this, but the home theater puts out some high pitch sound, unaudible to the human ear, that drives my dog crazy.

This solves all my interim problems while I wait for the UHD 4K audio solutions. I'm purchasing a new receiver soon, but I want to future proof if possible.
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post #249 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
I just have to laugh when people try to convince me that upscaling is different between their devices by showing me what looks like an overly compressed cell phone image.

Please note that the Samsung K8500 has internal controls for sharpness, color, brightness, and contrast. Any of those things can make a difference in what you are seeing.

Upscaling is just a myth. The truth is that individual settings like sharpness, noise reduction, color controls, contrast, brightness, and deinterlacing are what can make a difference between devices. The term upscaling implies that you are creating detail that is not there by simply altering the output resolution. You can’t create something from nothing. That is why “Upscaling” is a myth.

Upscaling is just a generalized term that everyone came up with to represent the differences between the output of two devices. However, the issue is that everyone tied that specifically to simply changing the resolution. The fact is that there are so many more factors involved in the differences than simply scaling it to a different resolution.

The biggest issue then becomes that people assume you can’t do anything to change the “upscaling” of a device. They simply say this device has better upscaling than this other device and then leave it at that. That completely ignores the fact that all of these other settings can be altered to change the output of the device.

Everyone simply wants to label a device as a good upscaler or not when it really involves so much more than that and the default values aren’t always the best values to use.
The Blurays have seem to have more detail when the 8500 is set to 1080p compared to when the resolution is set to 2160p. My question had more to do with whether or not UHDs will still output in 2160p even when the 8500 is set to 1080p.
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post #250 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
if you don't have a newer receiver or speaker bar, re-encoding to DD or DTS would allow you to use the ARC or optical output. No different than ten years ago when BD/HD DVD players also re-encoded to legacy DD/DTS.
I have the UBD-8500 set to Bitstream (unprocessed) but I am not getting Dolby Atmos from DA discs. I was getting Dolby Atmos through my Panasonic BluRay player and nothing has changed expect the Blu Ray Player (I have tried two different discs--Mad Max-Fury Road and Gravity--both output Dolby Atmos on my previous Blu Ray player). I'm using a high speed HDMI cable. I'm using the HDMI 2 output on the Samsung. I've also tried
running the audio and video directly to my receiver with the HDMI 1 output of the Samsung. Either way, I only get DolbyTrueHD. Am I missing some setting? Thanks.
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post #251 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:05 PM
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I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you guys are but this whole uhd hdmi issue confuses me. I have a js9000, the Samsung uhd player and the Martian in hand. I initially had hdmi uhd and deep color mode on. On my avr it displayed that I was receiving a 12 bit bt.2020 signal. On the advice of a few people here i turned off deep color and hdmi uhd mode and now I'm only receiving 4/4/4 and 8 bits. Isn't 12 bits what we want?
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post #252 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:06 PM
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Has any new K8500 owner found discrete on and off power remote commands that work. The Harmony data base only has a power toggle remote command.
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post #253 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you guys are but this whole uhd hdmi issue confuses me. I have a js9000, the Samsung uhd player and the Martian in hand. I initially had hdmi uhd and deep color mode on. On my avr it displayed that I was receiving a 12 bit bt.2020 signal. On the advice of a few people here i turned off deep color and hdmi uhd mode and now I'm only receiving 4/4/4 and 8 bits. Isn't 12 bits what we want?
Thanks for checking that! I guess it depends if you have a true 10 bit panel or an 8 bit panel. Also if you are receiving bt.2020, WCG should be used on the tv when viewing UHD. Now, when you are upscaling blu ray to 4K, it uses rec709, so that brings up the question, if we upscale regular blu ray, should deep color be turned off, or does it not really matter? I don't think leaving deep color on, has any effect on blu ray, but is needed for UHD blu ray. Just my guess.

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post #254 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:13 PM
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Im just getting caught up. Has anyone tried a 4K blu-ray on a 1080p display?
Yes. It has been reported to work fine.
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Are there any UHD blu-rays available yet?
Yes. Fox Direct has been shipping them. Most Best Buy stores have the Fox titles in their back room/warehouse. Some refuse to sell them until Sunday, though.
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We have to wait until March, correct?
Fox UBDs are available now. Others aren't ready yet.
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I own Sony W900a 1080p TV. Its an extra wide color gamut display. Im just wondering if i benefit from the new UHD player.
There have been some claims that the down-converted UBD video looks better than the corresponding BD video. The Fox titles don't include any immersive audio, though (no Atmos or DTS:X).
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post #255 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you guys are but this whole uhd hdmi issue confuses me. I have a js9000, the Samsung uhd player and the Martian in hand. I initially had hdmi uhd and deep color mode on. On my avr it displayed that I was receiving a 12 bit bt.2020 signal. On the advice of a few people here i turned off deep color and hdmi uhd mode and now I'm only receiving 4/4/4 and 8 bits. Isn't 12 bits what we want?
All of the UHD Blu-ray discs are encoded with 10-bit depth (that's the spec. for UHD Blu-ray) so it's odd that the K8500 settings cannot give you the native bit-depth that's on the disc. If it cannot then that appears to be defect/bug with the K8500 (unless your js9000 cannot accept 10-bit depth).

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post #256 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:19 PM
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Are you guys impressed with the pic quality compared to Blu-Ray? Is it the next level of amazing?
Speaking from a non-HDR Tv perspective it is quite outstanding when compared to Blu-ray on the same TV. However, there is a big caveat to that. You can make it look awful or you can make it look great even with very slight changes to the settings. Changes to the settings on the player produce HUGE swings in what the content looks like. You can click the settings one click and suddenly start clipping everything with a Non-HDR TV.

Also the color control changes the color drastically with each step. There is no fine tuning the color with that control. However, you must increase the color to make it look acceptable. I think the player way underestimates REC.709 in order to totally prevent any clipping from happening at all. Basically the safety margin is just too much.

I think there still is a lot of testing to do. Finding the correct color setting to prevent clipping and yet take full advantage of everything a non-HDR TV has to offer is the real trick. We have to do all of that adjustments manually. The nice thing about an HDR TV is that it automatically optimizes everything right from the start.

That being said the difference in resolution is not Earth shattering like the difference between 480p DVD and 1080p Blu ray was. It is really the whole experience of the new HDR edit which still translates into even non-HDR TVs and the better resolution that makes it worth the extra $10 per disc.
Kinda what I thought it would be, what makes it annoying is that we finally have 4K Blu but not any 4K native material! Crazy, surely that should give an improvement to the clarity/detail etc......when is Chappie out? Interested to see how that fares. I'm looking to buy one of these players in the UK in a few weeks, but seems to have quite a few issues.
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post #257 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:20 PM
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This is a prime example of where people are going to need 2-3 calibrated modes...

1) Rec 709 for HDTV and blu-ray
2) Rec 2020 for WCG UHD
3) 3D (if you care about 3D)

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post #258 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you guys are but this whole uhd hdmi issue confuses me. I have a js9000, the Samsung uhd player and the Martian in hand. I initially had hdmi uhd and deep color mode on. On my avr it displayed that I was receiving a 12 bit bt.2020 signal. On the advice of a few people here i turned off deep color and hdmi uhd mode and now I'm only receiving 4/4/4 and 8 bits. Isn't 12 bits what we want?
I haven't said anything yet but that is exactly right. If you are turning off the HDMI Deep Color option then you are actually watching non-HDR(REC.709) just like someone watching it with a non-HDR TV.

There are reports that HDR isn't quite working right at moment with this particular player. Therefore, turning it off fixes the issues. However, by turning that HDMI UHD setting off you are actually disabling the HDR color. The 8500 will now treat your TV as a non-HDR TV and output everything correctly but with REC.709 color.

Ironically everyone seems to be saying that using their HDR TVs in non-HDR mode is the best thing since sliced bread. Just wait till everyone actually sees proper HDR. It will blow their minds if they think that the non-HDR that they have been watching is great.
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post #259 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you guys are but this whole uhd hdmi issue confuses me. I have a js9000, the Samsung uhd player and the Martian in hand. I initially had hdmi uhd and deep color mode on. On my avr it displayed that I was receiving a 12 bit bt.2020 signal. On the advice of a few people here i turned off deep color and hdmi uhd mode and now I'm only receiving 4/4/4 and 8 bits. Isn't 12 bits what we want?

How does the picture look between both?

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post #260 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:26 PM
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This is a prime example of where people are going to need 2-3 calibrated modes...

1) Rec 709 for HDTV and blu-ray
2) Rec 2020 for WCG UHD
3) 3D (if you care about 3D)
If you calibrate a TV that can only achieve about 80% of REC.2020 to the full REC.2020 color gamut you will clip at least 20% of the spectrum. That would be a very poor choice. The TV automatically calibrates the input to the color space that it can display. Why would you want to change it from that?
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post #261 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:29 PM
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All of the UHD Blu-ray discs are encoded with 10-bit depth (that's the spec. for UHD Blu-ray) so it's odd that the K8500 settings cannot give you the native bit-depth that's on the disc. If it cannot then that appears to be defect/bug with the K8500 (unless your js9000 cannot accept 10-bit depth).
Outputting 10 bit video at 12 bits should not decrease the quality at all. Outputting 10 bit video over an 8 bit signal could definitely cause color banding though.
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post #262 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:29 PM
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I haven't said anything yet but that is exactly right. If you are turning off the HDMI Deep Color option then you are actually watching non-HDR(REC.709) just like someone watching it with a non-HDR TV.

There are reports that HDR isn't quite working right at moment with this particular player. Therefore, turning it off fixes the issues. However, by turning that HDMI UHD setting off you are actually disabling the HDR color. The 8500 will now treat your TV as a non-HDR TV and output everything correctly but with REC.709 color.

Ironically everyone seems to be saying that using their HDR TVs in non-HDR mode is the best thing since sliced bread. Just wait till everyone actually sees proper HDR. It will blow their minds if they think that the non-HDR that they have been watching is great.
No, you are confusing HDR with color space/bit depth (10 bit vs 8 bit). The player seems to have problems with 10 bit color but the color grading is still HDR
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post #263 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:30 PM
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If you calibrate a TV that can only achieve about 80% of REC.2020 to the full REC.2020 color gamut you will clip at least 20% of the spectrum. That would be a very poor choice. The TV automatically calibrates the input to the color space that it can display. Why would you want to change it from that?
I think a calibrator is going to have to go in there with a meter and see what it does out to 2020 in WCG mode, and still adjust. I would not take it on face value that you calibrate to 709, flip a button and the display magically takes it out as far as it can "accurately". Maybe Im wrong but until I can test this one, I'll have to wait. From my understanding they can calibrate it out to the display limits, not full 2020.

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post #264 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:40 PM
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No, you are confusing HDR with color space/bit depth (10 bit vs 8 bit). The player seems to have problems with 10 bit color but the color grading is still HDR
So the best suggestion until this bug is fixed is to leave deep color off?
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post #265 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:41 PM
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I think a calibrator is going to have to go in there with a meter and see what it does out to 2020 in WCG mode, and still adjust. I would not take it on face value that you calibrate to 709, flip a button and the display magically takes it out as far as it can "accurately". Maybe Im wrong but until I can test this one, I'll have to wait. From my understanding they can calibrate it out to the display limits, not full 2020.
You have to remember that the TV takes over when HDR content is detected. You aren't calibrating for REC.709 at all with HDR content. The TV takes over and figures out what it has to do to get from REC.2020 down to what your TV can display. The manufacture of the TV has programmed in what the TV is capable of displaying so the TV can use the HDR headers to determine how it needs to adjust the content to prevent clipping.

Anyone trying manually adjust the colors with an HDR TV is just going to mess it up. If you go higher you will clip. If you go lower you will not be utilizing the full extent of what the TV is capable of.

Now that being said it is entirely possible that some manufactures put a buffer in there to guarantee that the TV won't clip any content. The TV may be capable of "slightly" more put the manufacturer doesn't want to risk going over so they reduce it just a bit. Still in that case I wouldn't risk trying to reduce that buffer. It isn't worth it.
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post #266 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:43 PM
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So the best suggestion until this bug is fixed is to leave deep color off?
Yes but be aware that it isn't HDR anymore if you are turning wcg and 10 bit off. You are watching SDR if you do that. Still good but not what everyone is truly after.
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post #267 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:45 PM
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From my understanding they can calibrate it out to the display limits, not full 2020.
I find it interesting that everyone thinks they can figure out what the limits of the display are better than the manufacturer can.
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post #268 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:49 PM
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Has anyone else had an issue when watching a movie everything goes black and then resets to 1080? I've had it happen a couple times now while watching a blu-ray.

I've got a Vizio 70" P series with a Yamaha RX-V379 AVR and the K8500. I have Amazon Basics high speed HDMI cables running from the player through HDMI4 on the AVR which is labeled hdcp 2.2 to HDMI5 on the TV which is the fast port there.

I'm stumped.
Scott Helphrey is offline  
post #269 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
So the best suggestion until this bug is fixed is to leave deep color off?
Yes but be aware that it isn't HDR anymore if you are turning wcg and 10 bit off. You are watching SDR if you do that. Still good but not what everyone is truly after.
It's so frustrating, Samsung should have actually booted one up and tested it! That would've been a novel idea. Poor US beta testing for the UK again! 4K UHD Blu-Ray testers I salute you!! I got stung with an import of the A1 Toshiba HD-DVD player, so glad I'm sitting this one out.
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post #270 of 14238 Old 02-12-2016, 12:52 PM
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No, you are confusing HDR with color space/bit depth (10 bit vs 8 bit). The player seems to have problems with 10 bit color but the color grading is still HDR
The player outputs 8 bit REC.709 content with the HDR grade if you hook a non-HDR display up to it. If you turn off the HDR capabilities in the player then it will treat your display as a Non-HDR display and do the exact same thing.

If you try to display an 8 bit output with a much broader dynamic range for your display you will end up with banding which is exactly what people are seeing. You simply can't or at least shouldn't have 8 bit HDR material. You MUST increase the bit depth if you increase the entire range or you will cause banding.

Increasing the dynamic range without increasing the bit depth is the exact same thing as using a much larger screen with the same low resolution you had before. In both cases you need to increase the steps in between in order to increase the total range or the definition will be insufficient.
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