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post #181 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 09:18 AM
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Hey everyone that purchased this player at BB. They will match the price that is on the Philips Canadian web site. Can't go wrong especially when you get a free 4k (selected) movie
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post #182 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 09:19 AM
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@williamwallace

Can you also check if it's possible to change subtitle position during playback (up/down)?
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post #183 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 09:34 AM
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Is there a reason they are not saying they can process ATMOS audio ? That would be a deal breaker for me.
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post #184 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rckrzy1 View Post
Is there a reason they are not saying they can process ATMOS audio ? That would be a deal breaker for me.
You mean because it just lists TrueHD and DTS-HS as the audio output? Atmos and DTS:X are delivered inside those containers, so my assumption and hope is that it passes bitstream (uncompressed) for the AVR to pick up.

FWIW, the K8500 manual never mentions the word "Atmos" either and it works just fine.
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post #185 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 09:45 AM
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@williamwallace

Can you also check if it's possible to change subtitle position during playback (up/down)?
Yup!
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post #186 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 10:54 AM
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Philips web site says MSRP $349 yet AMAZON selling for $399 , really ? Or are you just paying full retail for the "free" movie ? Guess I'm back to waiting for something better.
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post #187 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rckrzy1 View Post
Philips web site says MSRP $349 yet AMAZON selling for $399 , really ? Or are you just paying full retail for the "free" movie ? Guess I'm back to waiting for something better.
I just checked the site and it is listed at $399
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post #188 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denon22 View Post
I just checked the site and it is listed at $399
from phillips usa site









4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Player


BDP7501/F7 Find similar products

The Philips BDP7501 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player with HDR support is the best way to realize the full potential of your 4K TV. With incredibly sharp 4K images with vivid colors and contrast made possible thanks to High Dynamic Range support.

Suggested retail price: $349.99
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post #189 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 11:20 AM
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Woot, my player arrived today instead of tomorrow!! Tonight it begins...
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post #190 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by williamwallace View Post
Woot, my player arrived today instead of tomorrow!! Tonight it begins...
Mine did too! Way to go FEDEX!
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post #191 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamwallace View Post
Woot, my player arrived today instead of tomorrow!! Tonight it begins...
In your review please mention what TV brand/model you are using for your testing..
Thanks, Gerry
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post #192 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rckrzy1 View Post
Philips web site says MSRP $349 yet AMAZON selling for $399 , really ? Or are you just paying full retail for the "free" movie ? Guess I'm back to waiting for something better.
Just FYI, some of us did pay MSRP through Brandsmart and it does come with Creed. So that probably is just Amazon's pricing.
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post #193 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 01:12 PM
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Mine still looks to be on for tomorrow. Way out west here...
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post #194 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 03:42 PM
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Don't understand why the moderator jumped on us a number of posts ago- really what is there like maybe 4 of us at this point that have ordered this UHD player? Should be able to discuss all relevant aspects of it and related topics as we move forward.
Gerry
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post #195 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 03:49 PM
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Still trying to patiently wait for Best Buy to get these, I have a 10% off coupon and $35 in reward zone certificates on the way. So that would bring the player down to $280 before taxes.

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post #196 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Mammoth View Post
Still trying to patiently wait for Best Buy to get these, I have a 10% off coupon and $35 in reward zone certificates on the way. So that would bring the player down to $280 before taxes.
That's going to depend on what they are going to list it for as Amazon is a $50 surcharge at this point. Not sure if you can fight the MSRP with them or not.. At any rate now that Amazon has them I would expect that BB should have them shortly.
Gerry
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post #197 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 06:09 PM
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Should be able to discuss all relevant aspects of it and related topics as we move forward...
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I will be getting mine of Saturday.

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post #199 of 1945 Old 07-14-2016, 11:56 PM
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Philips BDP7501 Initial Thoughts

After spending the better part of 5 hours putting the player through its paces, I figured I would share my thoughts so far. I am not a reviewer and don't claim to be, but maybe this can help others in the decision to purchase the player. There could be some mistakes as I've just got it today, so don't crucify me if you find any

My setup
* TV - Samsung 65JS9500, HDMI Color "ON" for the connected HDMI port
* AVR - Denon X4200W, using the "HDMI 2" option (dedicated audio)
* Other UHD BD - Samsung K8500, for comparisons

Unboxing and build quality
From the pictures, I always thought the 7501 looked like an Apple TV. The form factor is similar, but it was bigger than I expected and feels good in the hands. I guess you could say it feels more "well built" than the K8500, BUT I never had any complaints with the K8500 build quality personally; I mean I'm not taking it out in the yard to play frisbee. It just works.

The USB port is in the back, which kind of sucks, but I don't really use it actively.

Remote
The remote is really solid; especially compared to the toy like remote of the K8500. It feels good in the hand, and the buttons are rubber, so the finger touch is nice.



Size
Here is the player side by side with the Samsung for comparison.

Top view:


Height view:


Impromptu Rant
Ok, people. I just tried to set up my wifi and my password has a tilde (~) and for the love of all that is holy, I could not find it anywhere on the virtual keyboard. I mean, I stared at the keyboard and the various tabbed screens for 15 minutes before changing my wifi password to remove the ~. I am hoping another owner can come in here and point me to its location! Perhaps the 1.04 patch fixed it, but I haven't been in that keyboard again since.

Apps and base UI
Yup, only Netflix and Youtube. So if a breadth of apps are needed, such as Amazon, VUDU, or FandangoNow, this player is a non-starter. Further, the ONLY way to access the apps is from the remote; there is no browsable tiles on the home screen. In fact, you can't even see which BD is loaded, if any. All you see is this:



Which brings me to a comment about the UI of the device: it's very simple. Not necessarily bad, but simple. I felt like an ogre when I couldn't figure out how to launch the BD title, until I just pressed the play button, lol. Oh and so far, every time I power it on from "stand by" mode, it auto starts the BD playback. I guess that is ok since there is so little else to do from the menu, but it can still be annoying.

Finally, and with much regret, it looks like the Netflix version does NOT support HDR as of the latest firmware (1.04).

Update: as I've used the player a lot to pause, fast forward, viewing various movies, etc, I must say that the UI is pretty slow. If I am skipping chapters to get to the end of a movie, it takes a long time. When I hit "home" while watching a movie, the screen goes dark for 6-7 seconds before showing the menu.

Now onto the Settings...

HDMI
* Resolution - standard fair here, and I left it on auto. And to answer the question - yes, it auto upscales 1080p content to 4k if set to auto (for those familiar with the K8500 BD Wise trick.) Perhaps someone smarter than me can figure out how to make 1080p out 1080p, so your TV does the upscale.

* 4k60p Output - Unlike the Samsung player, there is an option between 4k/60p(4:4:4) and 4k/60p(4:2:0) and Off. I left it at the default 4:4:4, which will come into play later. Also, I didn't see any RGB modes, like the Samsung has.



Audio
Standard fair here, except for one default setting you'll want to turn off if you're using the HDMI 2 option. Under Digital Audio Output, you can choose Bitstream for both Dolby and DTS families, but there is a "BD-Video Secondary Audio" option. It's on by default and with down convert your TrueHD to DD and DTS-HD to DTS.

The other settings are standard and just check the manual for info about those.

Now onto some Content...

Media Player
The first thing I wanted to check is how well this player played various media files on my network share. I must say, it's pretty crappy. It played the MP4 files just fine but couldn't play AVI nor MKV files at all. Perhaps it plays TS/M2TS files, but I didn't have any on hand to test. It was pretty disappointing.

Picture Quality and Banding
Alright, now it's time to check out some content! So I started with the first movie I got, when every was figuring out the K8500 settings 5 months ago - The Martian. Banding reared its head early on in that movie, which lead to a lot of discussion on settings. Note that in the following screen shots, both 4K60 modes switched to 4K24 for UHD playback.

With my TV in its current settings, and the 7501 defaults, I fired it up. I was immediately greeted with the worst banding I've ever seen:




The 7501 has a nifty display option, which read as such:



I am no expert on color spaces, but I remembered the discussion in the K8500 thread stating that BDs should be 4:2:0. So I went into my HDMI settings and changed it to 4:2:0. Immediately the banding was gone and the picture looked great!



And the display read as such:



This brought back memories of the JS9500 and having to set HDMI Color to On to get rid of banding. So I figured, for craps and giggles, I would turn that off and see how the player responded. With both 4:4:4 settings and 4:2:0 settings, the player wouldn't even enter HDR mode with HDMI Color set to Off on my TV! It entered some enhanced simulation mode using BT.709.



EDIT: I tried the "Off" 4K60 setting. The title first launched in 1080p which gave me pause, but it immediately switched to the same 4K/24 setting as 4:2:0 mode.

Summary:
* If your TV has an HDMI Color or Deep Color mode, it will more than likely have to be on.
* Use the "4:2:0" or "Off" options under HDMI settings for 4K60, not the default 4:4:4 (at least for the JS9500; YMMV)


Picture options during playback
The options to tweak the playing picture is under Options on the remote, instead of Info like the K8500. There is standard stuff in here, but I will point out a few things.

* Subtitle Settings - there was a setting for "style" but I couldn't get it to be anything other than "None"
* Playback Information Window - referenced in the screens above. It's a handy window that shows you color output, audio output, and the current bitrate
* Video Settings - you can adjust Contrast, Brightness, Color Saturation and Hue; but there is no default configs like the K8500 (Standard, Dynamic, etc)

One annoying thing is that you can't adjust the audio delay from this menu. You have to completely exit the movie, adjust it in the main menu, and hope that it is right. I didn't see any delay issues with the player like I had on the K8500 (up until the latest firmware.)

More Picture Quality
After messing with the Martian and banding for awhile, I popped in another early movie that had a lot of discussion back and forth - Mad Max. Immediately, I noticed the reds were MUCH more subdued. Significantly. Some examples:

K8500


BDP7501


I promise you it's the same TV and the same settings! I checked and double checked, and even switch between Auto and Native color mode and the red edge is gone. Here are a couple more:

K8500


BDP7501


My camera doesn't capture all the details and color, so focus on the differences between my camera's pictures. Clearly, the processing engine is different between the two. Honestly, I can't tell you what is "right", but I honestly find the Philips version better to watch. It's more "natural" while still having amazing HDR accents. I don't know what to think, lol.

I'm gonna stop here because I have to get to bed, but I wanted to get some initial thoughts out there. After seeing how different mad max looks, I'll be re-watching every single UHD I have and taking notes/screenshots.
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Last edited by williamwallace; 07-19-2016 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Added comments for 4K60 mode being set to "Off"; Added pics for size comparison
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post #200 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 12:10 AM
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Thanks for the impressions Sir, was Creed included from Brands Mart?

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post #201 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 04:40 AM
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William, the manual indicates that during initial setup the unit will try to communicate with the TV and set the correct settings (ie 4.4.4/4.4.2/4.4.0). Did you see that screen during setup? Also I believe that BDs are 4.2.0 as you indicated with 10 bit. I'm not aware of any 12 bit TV panels out there..
In the settings it would be: 4K 60P output = 4K/60P (4.2.0)
Am I correct here?
Gerry
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post #202 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 06:19 AM
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So it's still odd that Samsung TVs seems to have an issue with Banding. WIth my Sony UHD TV I never had any banding from the K8500. Connected to my Sony TV everything just worked. So I wonder when the BDP7501 is connected to a Sony TV if it will just work properly with it?

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post #203 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Mammoth View Post
Thanks for the impressions Sir, was Creed included from Brands Mart?
Yup! I forgot to include that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
William, the manual indicates that during initial setup the unit will try to communicate with the TV and set the correct settings (ie 4.4.4/4.4.2/4.4.0). Did you see that screen during setup? Also I believe that BDs are 4.2.0 as you indicated with 10 bit. I'm not aware of any 12 bit TV panels out there..
In the settings it would be: 4K 60P output = 4K/60P (4.2.0)
Am I correct here?
Gerry
Yeah, it tried the 4:4:4 first, which passed the test on my TV, so it didn't try the 4:2:0. I assume that means my TV is taking the 12 bit color and dithering it down (banding), but it passed the Philips "test."
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post #204 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 06:49 AM
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^^ I'll find out today with my 940D. Thanks for the great review. This player should do me well. I play BDs from my HTPC, so the player will never see a BD or DVD, just UHD until the HTPC world can handle UHD discs. Very glad to see the red push is not present on the Philips - those screenshots look MUCH better. Hopefully the seek/chapter skip performance is livable.
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post #205 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamwallace View Post
After spending the better part of 5 hours putting the player through its paces, I figured I would share my thoughts so far. I am not a reviewer and don't claim to be, but maybe this can help others in the decision to purchase the player. There could be some mistakes as I've just got it today, so don't crucify me if you find any

My setup
* TV - Samsung 65JS9500, HDMI Color "ON" for the connected HDMI port
* AVR - Denon X4200W, using the "HDMI 2" option (dedicated audio)
* Other UHD BD - Samsung K8500, for comparisons

Unboxing and build quality
From the pictures, I always thought the 7501 looked like an Apple TV. The form factor is similar, but it was bigger than I expected and feels good in the hands. I guess you could say it feels more "well built" than the K8500, BUT I never had any complaints with the K8500 build quality personally; I mean I'm not taking it out in the yard to play frisbee. It just works.

The USB port is in the back, which kind of sucks, but I don't really use it actively.

Remote
The remote is really solid; especially compared to the toy like remote of the K8500. It feels good in the hand, and the buttons are rubber, so the finger touch is nice.



Impromptu Rant
Ok, people. I just tried to set up my wifi and my password has a tilde (~) and for the love of all that is holy, I could not find it anywhere on the virtual keyboard. I mean, I stared at the keyboard and the various tabbed screens for 15 minutes before changing my wifi password to remove the ~. I am hoping another owner can come in here and point me to its location! Perhaps the 1.04 patch fixed it, but I haven't been in that keyboard again since.

Apps and base UI
Yup, only Netflix and Youtube. So if a breadth of apps are needed, such as Amazon, VUDU, or FandangoNow, this player is a non-starter. Further, the ONLY way to access the apps is from the remote; there is no browsable tiles on the home screen. In fact, you can't even see which BD is loaded, if any. All you see is this:



Which brings me to a comment about the UI of the device: it's very simple. Not necessarily bad, but simple. I felt like an ogre when I couldn't figure out how to launch the BD title, until I just pressed the play button, lol. Oh and so far, every time I power it on from "stand by" mode, it auto starts the BD playback. I guess that is ok since there is so little else to do from the menu, but it can still be annoying.

Finally, and with much regret, it looks like the Netflix version does NOT support HDR as of the latest firmware (1.04).

Update: as I've used the player a lot to pause, fast forward, viewing various movies, etc, I must say that the UI is pretty slow. If I am skipping chapters to get to the end of a movie, it takes a long time. When I hit "home" while watching a movie, the screen goes dark for 6-7 seconds before showing the menu.

Now onto the Settings...

HDMI
* Resolution - standard fair here, and I left it on auto. And to answer the question - yes, it auto upscales 1080p content to 4k if set to auto (for those familiar with the K8500 BD Wise trick.) Perhaps someone smarter than me can figure out how to make 1080p out 1080p, so your TV does the upscale.

* 4k60p Output - Unlike the Samsung player, there is an option between 4k/60p(4:4:4) and 4k/60p(4:2:0). I left it at the default 4:4:4, which will come into play later. Also, I didn't see any RGB modes, like the Samsung has.



Audio
Standard fair here, except for one default setting you'll want to turn off if you're using the HDMI 2 option. Under Digital Audio Output, you can choose Bitstream for both Dolby and DTS families, but there is a "BD-Video Secondary Audio" option. It's on by default and with down convert your TrueHD to DD and DTS-HD to DTS.

The other settings are standard and just check the manual for info about those.

Now onto some Content...

Media Player
The first thing I wanted to check is how well this player played various media files on my network share. I must say, it's pretty crappy. It played the MP4 files just fine but couldn't play AVI nor MKV files at all. Perhaps it plays TS/M2TS files, but I didn't have any on hand to test. It was pretty disappointing.

Picture Quality and Banding
Alright, now it's time to check out some content! So I started with the first movie I got, when every was figuring out the K8500 settings 5 months ago - The Martian. Banding reared its head early on in that movie, which lead to a lot of discussion on settings. So with my TV in its current settings, and the 7501 defaults, I fired it up.

I was immediately greeted with the worst banding I've ever seen:




The 7501 has a nifty display option, which read as such:



I am no expert on color spaces, but I remembered the discussion in the K8500 thread stating that BDs should be 4:2:0. So I went into my HDMI settings and changed it to 4:2:0. Immediately the banding was gone and the picture looked great!



And the display read as such:



This brought back memories of the JS9500 and having to set HDMI Color to On to get rid of banding. So I figured, for craps and giggles, I would turn that off and see how the player responded. With both 4:4:4 settings and 4:2:0 settings, the player wouldn't even enter HDR mode with HDMI Color set to Off on my TV! It entered some enhanced simulation mode using BT.709.



Summary:
* If your TV has a HDMI Color or Deep Color mode, it will more than likely have to be on.
* Use the 4:2:0 option under HDMI settings, not the default 4:4:4.


Picture options during playback
The options to tweak the playing picture is under Options on the remote, instead of Info like the K8500. There is standard stuff in here, but I will point out a few things.

* Subtitle Settings - there was a setting for "style" but I couldn't get it to be anything other than "None"
* Playback Information Window - referenced in the screens above. It's a handy window that shows you color output, audio output, and the current bitrate
* Video Settings - you can adjust Contrast, Brightness, Color Saturation and Hue; but there is no default configs like the K8500 (Standard, Dynamic, etc)

One annoying thing is that you can't adjust the audio delay from this menu. You have to completely exit the movie, adjust it in the main menu, and hope that it is right. I didn't see any delay issues with the player like I had on the K8500 (up until the latest firmware.)

More Picture Quality
After messing with the Martian and banding for awhile, I popped in another early movie that had a lot of discussion back and forth - Mad Max. Immediately, I noticed the reds were MUCH more subdued. Significantly. Some examples:

K8500


BDP7501


I promise you it's the same TV and the same settings! I checked and double checked, and even switch between Auto and Native color mode and the red edge is gone. Here are a couple more:

K8500


BDP7501


My camera doesn't capture all the details and color, so focus on the differences between my camera's pictures. Clearly, the processing engine is different between the two. Honestly, I can't tell you what is "right", but I honestly find the Philips version better to watch. It's more "natural" while still having amazing HDR accents. I don't know what to think, lol.

I'm gonna stop here because I have to get to bed, but I wanted to get some initial thoughts out there. After seeing how different mad max looks, I'll be re-watching every single UHD I have and taking notes/screenshots.
Thanks for takingthe time to do this...nice review and I will check my 4:4 settings.
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post #206 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 07:09 AM
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^^ Why on earth did you quote the entire review?
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HTPC | NAS | Harmony Elite | DENON X4200W | Sony XBR75X940D
Philips BDP7501 | Klipsch RF7II, RC64II, CDT5650CII | SVS SB2000 x2
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post #207 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamwallace View Post
Yup! I forgot to include that.
Great thanks. Really hope Best Buy gets these in next week, I like the less contrasty look of the Philips. It seems like it would give the HDR highlights even more pop.

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post #208 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 08:07 AM
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Great review @williamwallace !

I def prefer the more natural tone from the Philips player in the screenshot comparisons, looks really good!
Personally, i don`t care so much about the media files playback functionality because i have another player for this purpose so i will almost exclusively play UHD blu-ray:s with it.

Too bad subtitle shifting doesn`t seem to work..
And i wonder if HDR support for Netflix can/will be added with a future firmware update?
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post #209 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 08:50 AM
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I don't have Mad Max, but I do have The Martian and did see it in the movies. FWIW, the K8500's depiction looks more accurate to me. It is the 'red planet', not the 'beige planet'.
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post #210 of 1945 Old 07-15-2016, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I don't have Mad Max, but I do have The Martian and did see it in the movies. FWIW, the K8500's depiction looks more accurate to me. It is the 'red planet', not the 'beige planet'.
Interesting enough, The Martian on the Philips is a lot closer to the K8500 (still plenty of red), which is why I was floored by Mad Max. I will take some compare pics of The Martian tonight as well.
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