UHD BD players-placebo effect? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 15 Old 05-09-2016, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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UHD BD players-placebo effect?

I am asking this because I am on the fence.

I appreciate that they will scale a 1080p disk to 4k, but so will your UHD TV, so it all depends on the quality of the scaler. I also appreciate that native 4k sources will have higher resolution than 1080p but few films are shot at that high a resolution. Movies shot on 70mm or 35mm are super sharp and can be easily mastered to 4k digital. Same is true for movies shot natively with 4k cameras, But, most digital movies are shot at 2k and film is not used much anymore.

My question is if I will see a difference in a movie shot in 2k and upscaled to 4k vs a 1080p BD upscaled to 4k by my TV?

Those of you who own a 4k player-have you done an A:B comparison of a 4k BD vs the same title in 1080p (preferably on a regular BD player) and is there a noticeable difference? Is it worth it to buy one when there will be few titles that are natively shot at that high a resolution?

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post #2 of 15 Old 05-09-2016, 02:32 PM
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I'm still on the fence as well, but I've noticed that HDR brings a massive improvement that wasn't available before. If your TV is HDR compatible, then there's a noticeable difference. If you don't have HDR or Atmos, it probably doesn't justify the $400 player cost. However, the UHD movies come with a standard Blu-ray copy, so just buy UHD movies and wait for a more affordable player. The movies cost about the same anyways.
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post #3 of 15 Old 05-09-2016, 02:38 PM
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As time goes on (and mastering gets better), UHD will become more about the colors and dynamic range (HDR) and less about the resolution (4k). As it is, I like it, but quality varies from title-to-title (and studio-to-studio); the other thing is I'm "all in" for immersive sound, so I won't even buy another UHD that doesn't have Atmos or DTS:X.
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post #4 of 15 Old 05-09-2016, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree with both of the above posts. HDR is what I am more excited with. 4k was a money grab IMO, but HDR can give us picture improvements we can actually see at normal viewing distances. As far as sound improvements, I think that would be great, but most people will never move beyond 5.1 surround if just because of aesthetics.
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post #5 of 15 Old 05-09-2016, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfster View Post
I am asking this because I am on the fence.

Those of you who own a 4k player-have you done an A:B comparison of a 4k BD vs the same title in 1080p (preferably on a regular BD player) and is there a noticeable difference? Is it worth it to buy one when there will be few titles that are natively shot at that high a resolution?
This is more of a software question and has been discussed here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...ions-here.html

This is not the correct forum area for comparing UHD vs. BD titles.

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post #6 of 15 Old 05-09-2016, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post
This is more of a software question and has been discussed here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...ions-here.html

This is not the correct forum area for comparing UHD vs. BD titles.
I agree it is not the ideal forum for my question, but since it related to players as well as software, there was no forum that seemed proper. It would be nice if there were a general audio or general video discussion forum that could encompass these gray areas, but I have not found one.

Feel free to move this question where you feel it best belongs.

Thanks
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post #7 of 15 Old 05-11-2016, 07:09 AM
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Is a 4K Blu Ray Player Worth It ...

Is a 4K blu ray player worth it for me if my 4k TV doesn't handle HDR? I have a Vizio D65u-D2 which doesn't process HDR, and I need a blu ray player to pair with it (my Sony 3D player moved to the bedroom with my Sony 46HX800 TV). Does it make sense for me to get an actual 4k blu ray player that will play 4k content? Or would it make more sense to get one that upscales to 4k but doesn't actually play 4k discs? I'm not sure that spending the money on an actual 4k player and discs will give me a discernible difference for the money.


Thoughts?
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post #8 of 15 Old 05-11-2016, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfster View Post

My question is if I will see a difference in a movie shot in 2k and upscaled to 4k vs a 1080p BD upscaled to 4k by my TV?


there are some good ones, and some bad ones. my advice (which is what i do), is to read feedback first. for example, some of the really good 2k upscales that are noticeably improved is kingsman and life of pi. but on the other hand, the 5th wave ive read does not look great and is a "bad" one.

but the higher bit rate and WCG do make a nice difference overall.

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post #9 of 15 Old 05-13-2016, 01:04 PM
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In my experience, 4K content from 2K master, looks no better than 1080p upscaled to 4K by a player or TV. I think even upscaling to 4K provides marginal benefit over native 1080p.

The two biggest improvements I've witnessed in source material (since we went from DVD to Blu-Ray) has been: 1) native 4K material displayed on a 4K screen, and 2) HDR. The vast majority of 4K content I've seen (from Samsung or MGO/FandangoNow) is upscaled from 2K masters, and it shows. In some cases, it's even worse than blu-ray, because of the amount of compression they applied. If you've watched 4K demo material or some of the stuff on YouTube that was actually show in 4K, you can tell how night and day it is, compared to what's possible on 1080p. Similarly for HDR, once you've seen with and without, it's a very obvious difference.

If you want to future proof yourself, by all means go for an UHD player, but if you're only playing normal 1080p content (or even UHD content from 2K masters) don't expect to see much if any difference.
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post #10 of 15 Old 05-13-2016, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finiteyoda View Post
In my experience, 4K content from 2K master, looks no better than 1080p upscaled to 4K by a player or TV. I think even upscaling to 4K provides marginal benefit over native 1080p.

If you want to future proof yourself, by all means go for an UHD player, but if you're only playing normal 1080p content (or even UHD content from 2K masters) don't expect to see much if any difference.
That seems to be what logic would dictate. I can not see how something that is upscaled can possibly be better than the source. 2k or 1080p would be virtually the same resolution and no matter how you converted to a 4k display, I would expect the results to be about the same.
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post #11 of 15 Old 05-13-2016, 08:30 PM
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HDR and wide color is well worth it. 4K alone not so much over 1080P imo. After seeing a couple HDR and DV movies, it is hard to watch a plain old bluray now, though...

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post #12 of 15 Old 05-15-2016, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfster View Post
That seems to be what logic would dictate. I can not see how something that is upscaled can possibly be better than the source. 2k or 1080p would be virtually the same resolution and no matter how you converted to a 4k display, I would expect the results to be about the same.
theres some hardcore people over at bluray.com who preached this, but recently changed positions after finally getting a player and viewing discs for themselves. movies like life of pi and kingsman defy theories that 2k upscales wont look any better.

also, all you have to do is read the professional disc reviews of the UHD movies. almost all of them note the improved detail and sharpness of the 2k upscale movies.

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post #13 of 15 Old 05-15-2016, 10:01 PM
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2k upscaled UHD will be better than the blu-Ray for two reasons.

First, 2k is actually 2048x1080 and even though it's only a tiny bit wider than 1080p, the 2k DI uses optical tricks to get the anamorphic aspect ratio - so the picture occupies all 1080 lines. A Blu-Ray has letter boxing applied, which reduces the number of lines of visual information - instead of 1080 lines, you get around 900 ish lines. The difference is the black bars. So you have a bit more visual information to begin with.

The second reason is the studios have better up scaling equipment. The scaler counts for a lot as anyone whose shopped for up scaling DVD players, argued about receiver vs screen upscalers, or bought a specific piece of kit because it had a good scaler. As the scaler in the studio doesn't have to work in real time, it can spend more time doing a better job, assisted by the mastering engineer.
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post #14 of 15 Old 05-18-2016, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metsfan1968 View Post
Is a 4K blu ray player worth it for me if my 4k TV doesn't handle HDR? I have a Vizio D65u-D2 which doesn't process HDR, and I need a blu ray player to pair with it (my Sony 3D player moved to the bedroom with my Sony 46HX800 TV). Does it make sense for me to get an actual 4k blu ray player that will play 4k content? Or would it make more sense to get one that upscales to 4k but doesn't actually play 4k discs? I'm not sure that spending the money on an actual 4k player and discs will give me a discernible difference for the money.


Thoughts?
Your TV will not properly support the output of the Samsung player unfortunately. It will show more shadow detail but there will be Chroma issues that you can never resolve. If you think you will ever want to take advantage of HDR material with a Vizio TV then only the 2016 Vizio P-series or better(ie: R-series) will play content properly with the Samsung player.

Even the P-series will not play HDR10 discs to their full extent yet but the update to resolve that is just around the corner. It doesn’t have the chroma color issues that the D and M series have though.
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post #15 of 15 Old 05-18-2016, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfster View Post
That seems to be what logic would dictate. I can not see how something that is upscaled can possibly be better than the source. 2k or 1080p would be virtually the same resolution and no matter how you converted to a 4k display, I would expect the results to be about the same.
well you are talking realime scaling vs. multipass scaling in non realtime. There is no way that realtime scaling can be as good.

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