Xbox One S-UHD Blu-Ray Player Aug 2016 - Page 82 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2431 of 2575 Old 04-12-2018, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lowekamp View Post
I'm setting up a new 4K projector with my xbox one s. I'm running the 1084 insider build. I've checked three different UHD discs and in each case my projector shows:

Source: 4K(3840)24
Color space: RGB 10-bit
Colorimetry: BT.2020
HDR: ST.2084

My understanding is the RGB is still wrong, but I thought 1084 was supposed to fix it. Have I missed a setting somewhere?

Thanks,
Bruce
(disclosure: I'm a MS employee but not with Xbox)
That's interesting. From what I've read (some here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#4c211fd12f55) it was thought that there would no longer be an RGB output, or it would be bypassed somehow. Perhaps they just fixed the minor conversion errors? We'll probably know more after the public release, when the techies have had a chance to take a look at it and evaluate.

Thanks for sharing the info!

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post #2432 of 2575 Old 04-12-2018, 01:00 PM
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Unhappy

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Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post
Sounds like your receiver isn't HDR compatible and that's the reason for the color issues. If the regular Blu-ray copy plays fine, then you would need to upgrade your receiver

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Thanks for the thought, but no... The TSR5790 that I did have was not HDR compliant thought it was advertised as such. I now have a RX-V683 which has 3 2.2 HDR capable inputs. The signal comes through as full 4K, but looks terrible, dark and washed out.

Various searches show there are still many issues with 4K and HDR on Xbox one S.

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post #2433 of 2575 Old 04-12-2018, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DtroitPunk View Post
Thanks for the thought, but no... The TSR5790 that I did have was not HDR compliant thought it was advertised as such. I now have a RX-V683 which has 3 2.2 HDR capable inputs. The signal comes through as full 4K, but looks terrible, dark and washed out.

Various searches show there are still many issues with 4K and HDR on Xbox one S.
I'm curious, what issues have you seen listed? In in the Xbox insider program and all previous issues have been resolved in terms of the 4k Blu-ray player & the color issue.

The update has not gone out to the public yet. Should be by end of month.

I haven't come across or seen any issue mentioned related to what you are experiencing. It honestly sounds like there is something not setup right.

I'm using both an Xbox One S and an X

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post #2434 of 2575 Old 04-12-2018, 02:54 PM
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post
I'm curious, what issues have you seen listed? In in the Xbox insider program and all previous issues have been resolved in terms of the 4k Blu-ray player & the color issue.

The update has not gone out to the public yet. Should be by end of month.

I haven't come across or seen any issue mentioned related to what you are experiencing. It honestly sounds like there is something not setup right.

I'm using both an Xbox One S and an X

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Problem solved. I was under the impression that all 4 65X850D HDMI inputs were 2.2 and HDR ready. Even though they are all, individually, selectable as enhanced, in the details on TV settings it specifically states that Enhanced features are only available on inputs 2 and 3!

Fixed now, was having some severe lack of color pop and a general murkiness. MUCH better now. I need to try to get on insider program for updates too.
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post #2435 of 2575 Old 04-12-2018, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DtroitPunk View Post
Problem solved. I was under the impression that all 4 65X850D HDMI inputs were 2.2 and HDR ready. Even though they are all, individually, selectable as enhanced, in the details on TV settings it specifically states that Enhanced features are only available on inputs 2 and 3!

Fixed now, was having some severe lack of color pop and a general murkiness. MUCH better now. I need to try to get on insider program for updates too.
Glad it's fixed. If you want in to the insider program, just download the insider app to your console and register. The app should be called xbox insider app or xbo preview app

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post #2436 of 2575 Old 04-15-2018, 01:10 PM
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Do i have a wonky xbox1S or is it the disc? Played every BR i put into it until UHD Blade Runner 2049. Just wanted to find out if there is some specific problem with BR Warner Bros movies not working. Short of driving for an hour to buy another player to test the disk in a different player I'm sol & out of ideas.

Thanks
Dave
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post #2437 of 2575 Old 04-15-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Duncannutz View Post
Do i have a wonky xbox1S or is it the disc? Played every BR i put into it until UHD Blade Runner 2049. Just wanted to find out if there is some specific problem with BR Warner Bros movies not working. Short of driving for an hour to buy another player to test the disk in a different player I'm sol & out of ideas.

Thanks
Dave
If you can wait till about 7pm est. I can put my copy in my S and see if it works. It plays fine in my X.

Only movie issue I'm aware of is one with Disney Thor but a fix was put out for testing in the preview program for it

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post #2438 of 2575 Old 04-15-2018, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncannutz View Post
Do i have a wonky xbox1S or is it the disc? Played every BR i put into it until UHD Blade Runner 2049. Just wanted to find out if there is some specific problem with BR Warner Bros movies not working. Short of driving for an hour to buy another player to test the disk in a different player I'm sol & out of ideas.

Thanks
Dave
I played the 4K UHD disc version of Blade Runner 2049 and no issues.

Is it possible you can exchange the movie? Try someone else's disc?

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post #2439 of 2575 Old 04-15-2018, 04:09 PM
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Also for people that were asking about checking info on Xbox when playing blurays/DVD.

I forgot about this but just do the following

While a movie is playing, press B
When the bottom controls pop up,
Scroll to the far right and highlight the 3 dots, then press A
When the menu pops up, scroll to the left and highlight the box with the letter " i " in it and press A

The info will be put up at the top of the screen...(see pics I attached)

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post #2440 of 2575 Old 04-15-2018, 07:34 PM
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Appreciate the feedback, i'll prolly exchange with amazon, or order another player, it's not working out the way i thought it would with Xbox although its not on them if i got a bad disc. Again thx for help & info



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Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post
I played the 4K UHD disc version of Blade Runner 2049 and no issues.

Is it possible you can exchange the movie? Try someone else's disc?

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post #2441 of 2575 Old 04-15-2018, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post

Only movie issue I'm aware of is one with Disney Thor but a fix was put out for testing in the preview program for it
My XBox One S froze 4x while I was watching Thor Ragnarok. Then while watching Star Wars Last Jedi 4K, the Xbox One S' sound would lag the video by 2 seconds. I stopped and resumed the movie several times, only for the lag to build up again after few minutes.

That's when I decided to buy a dedicated 4K UHD player that meets my expectations - Sony UBP-X1000ES. Now the One S sits in dust. I bought it in 2016 mainly for 4K UHD playback.
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post #2442 of 2575 Old 04-16-2018, 01:49 PM
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What does it mean that there's an 1805 build in the Alpha ring? Does that mean the 1804 is ready for release to the public?

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2018/04/...pdate-4-16-18/

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post #2443 of 2575 Old 04-16-2018, 01:54 PM
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What does it mean that there's an 1805 build in the Alpha ring? Does that mean the 1804 is ready for release to the public?

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2018/04/...pdate-4-16-18/
Not necessarily. There are different rings. Alpha is the very first ring and gets the updates at their most raw. These are the updates that just leave the internal team and usually have the most bugs, issues.

After it passes alpha, it goes out to the other 3 rings for testing and finding anymore bugs. If it passes all these, then it goes out to public when MS is ready.

It's not uncommon for alpha to test a build ahead while the previous build is in final ring testing.

The 1804 build is slated for April release. The 1804 build is definitely almost ready

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post #2444 of 2575 Old 04-17-2018, 05:48 AM
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Not necessarily. There are different rings. Alpha is the very first ring and gets the updates at their most raw. These are the updates that just leave the internal team and usually have the most bugs, issues.

After it passes alpha, it goes out to the other 3 rings for testing and finding anymore bugs. If it passes all these, then it goes out to public when MS is ready.

It's not uncommon for alpha to test a build ahead while the previous build is in final ring testing.

The 1804 build is slated for April release. The 1804 build is definitely almost ready

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Thanks for the detailed response @Jrocker23 . Only two weeks left in April, so looking forward to that public release.
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post #2445 of 2575 Old 04-22-2018, 01:39 AM
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i did a quick a and b comparison between blu ray and 4k uhd on a 1080p tv. the movie i used was blade runner 2049. the only difference i notice was that the 4k looked less grainier in motion and you could see the neon sign in the far background clearer. other than that you probably couldnt even tell the difference from a distance. anyways this post is for anybody looking to get a xbone as a 4k player hoping to get better quality on a 1080p tv over a normal blu ray. i got a good deal on ebay so i jumped on it.
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post #2446 of 2575 Old 04-22-2018, 04:47 AM
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i did a quick a and b comparison between blu ray and 4k uhd on a 1080p tv. the movie i used was blade runner 2049. the only difference i notice was that the 4k looked less grainier in motion and you could see the neon sign in the far background clearer. other than that you probably couldnt even tell the difference from a distance. anyways this post is for anybody looking to get a xbone as a 4k player hoping to get better quality on a 1080p tv over a normal blu ray. i got a good deal on ebay so i jumped on it.
And it's also great for those who want to take advantage of the better audio soundtracks on 4K UHDs over Blu-ray as the trend is they're mostly bundling Dolby Atmos and DTS:X with the 4K UHD disc and NOT the standard Blu-rays. You can also utilize Dolby Atmos on Netflix without a 4K TV once you upgrade the plan to 4K streaming for $3 more a month. I think even the sound bump is worth the money as Lost In Space sounds more defined and authoritative in Dolby Atmos over their Dolby Digital standard fare.

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post #2447 of 2575 Old 04-22-2018, 10:29 AM
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Hope someone can advise me on something regarding the YCC 4:2:2 setting on the One X....

Vincent Teoh from HDTV Test says that unless this is checked the One X will output in RGB without the correct colour or something like that but if I select this and then play something like Destiny 2 in HDR I can see banding which doesn't appear if YCC 4:2:2 is not selected, he also says to leave the bit depth set to 8 as the One X defaults to the right setting anyway.

Is it right that if you don't check the YCC 4:2:2 box then your UHD discs play back with inferior picture quality....?
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post #2448 of 2575 Old 04-23-2018, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyroscopics View Post
My XBox One S froze 4x while I was watching Thor Ragnarok. Then while watching Star Wars Last Jedi 4K, the Xbox One S' sound would lag the video by 2 seconds. I stopped and resumed the movie several times, only for the lag to build up again after few minutes.

That's when I decided to buy a dedicated 4K UHD player that meets my expectations - Sony UBP-X1000ES. Now the One S sits in dust. I bought it in 2016 mainly for 4K UHD playback.
This is troubling to hear. Was your Xbox completely up to date?

Has anyone else had these issues?

I'm considering the XB1S as my first 4K UHD player because of all the streaming it supports and the added ability for game play. I noticed ome of the stand alone players I've looked at (LG, Phillips, Sony) have issues from time to time as well. Not prepared to drop $500 on a player just yet.

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post #2449 of 2575 Old 04-24-2018, 07:55 AM
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This is troubling to hear. Was your Xbox completely up to date?

Has anyone else had these issues?

I'm considering the XB1S as my first 4K UHD player because of all the streaming it supports and the added ability for game play. I noticed ome of the stand alone players I've looked at (LG, Phillips, Sony) have issues from time to time as well. Not prepared to drop $500 on a player just yet.
There could be a lot of problems in that poster's system causing those issues other than the Xbox. Take individual user experiences here with a huge grain of salt; most problems are caused by user error (not to imply that that poster is guilty) and can be corrected with friendly advice here on this forum.

I have been very pleased with mine (as have many others), and any issues that have come up for me have been fixed by adjusting the appropriate settings.
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post #2450 of 2575 Old 04-24-2018, 12:33 PM
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Looks like the 1804 April update is out .

https://majornelson.com/2018/04/24/t...ing-out-today/

Ill have to go home and test it on my 4k non HDR tv and see if it fixes the RGB issue etc. Fingers crossed!
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post #2451 of 2575 Old 04-27-2018, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Before some days I wanted to test what colorspace/bit depth XBOX One S is outputting when you playback a Blu-Ray/UHD HDR/SDR Game, so I used HD Linker to check the details of each signal XBOX One S was sending to an LG OLED 65E6.

@ XBOX One S Video Settings, it has 2 options, the Recommended which output 16-235 (TV/Video Legal Levels), and the other for Monitor out which will output 0-255 (Pc/Data Levels).

The correct option there for TV's is the recommended.

When you playback a SDR Blu-Ray movie with XBOX One S, it has different output.

For example when you have previously selected 8bit colordepth, it's outputting 2160p24 RGB-Video 8bit.

If you have previously selected 10 or 12bit colordepth then always it's outputting 2160p YCbCr 4:4:4 10bit:



When you playback an HDR UHD Movie then it's outputting always 2160p24 RGB-Video 10bit HDR REC.2020 (it doesn't matter if you have selected 10 or 12bit):



When you will untick that you have an HDR compatible TV and you playback an UHD-HDR Movie then it will output 2160p24 YCbCr 4:4:4 10bit REC.709:



Now for SDR games, I used FIFA17 (full), Battlefield1 (demo), NBA17 (demo) for that test.

2160p60 RGB-Video (uncompressed) REC.709 8bit when you had 8bit colordepth selected from the XBOX Video Settings:



2160p60 YCbCr 4:2:0 REC.709 10bit when you had 10bit colordepth selected from the XBOX Video Settings:



2160p60 YCbCr 4:2:0 REC.709 12bit when you had 12bit colordepth selected from the XBOX Video Settings:



For a non-HDR game, RGB-Video 8-bit output will be better visually from 4:2:0 10/12bit.

A classic example from wikipedia can show the different between chroma subsampling compression methods:



So the recommended output settings can be:

12bit for SDR Blu-Ray
12bit for HDR UHD Movies (It will output 10bit)
12bit for HDR Games
8bit for SDR Games
@ConnecTEDDD , I wonder if your recommendations above will change now that Microsoft has supposedly fixed the RGB color issue with UHD disc playback on the Xbox One S/X player? Have you had a chance to test the updated XB1 to see what was done? Thanks, as always, for your research and contributions.
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post #2452 of 2575 Old 04-27-2018, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mttpalmer View Post
@ConnecTEDDD , I wonder if your recommendations above will change now that Microsoft has supposedly fixed the RGB color issue with UHD disc playback on the Xbox One S/X player? Have you had a chance to test the updated XB1 to see what was done? Thanks, as always, for your research and contributions.
Hi, I can only check 1080p signal output, where it outputs RGB-Video, when you use 2160p signal output it's using YCbCr. Currently I can't examine that, it will need an Accupel DVG-6000 with Engineer Add-On (Analyser).

That old issue from the date XBOX One S/X released, I believe this affects UHD disc playback, they had incorrect matrix for conversions of REC.2020 YCbCr <-> RGB-Video which is different matrix from the one used for REC.709 YCbCr <-> RGB-Video.
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post #2453 of 2575 Old 04-28-2018, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, I can only check 1080p signal output, where it outputs RGB-Video, when you use 2160p signal output it's using YCbCr. Currently I can't examine that, it will need an Accupel DVG-6000 with Engineer Add-On (Analyser).

That old issue from the date XBOX One S/X released, I believe this affects UHD disc playback, they had incorrect matrix for conversions of REC.2020 YCbCr <-> RGB-Video which is different matrix from the one used for REC.709 YCbCr <-> RGB-Video.
The 1804 release will output RGB 4:4:4 for 4k HDR, unless your display only supports 10gbps HDMI and you enable YCC 4:2:2 support in which case it uses that. (that's a separate question from whether it's doing any color mapping correctly, but that's the expected behavior.

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post #2454 of 2575 Old 04-28-2018, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Lowekamp View Post
The 1804 release will output RGB 4:4:4 for 4k HDR, unless your display only supports 10gbps HDMI and you enable YCC 4:2:2 support in which case it uses that. (that's a separate question from whether it's doing any color mapping correctly, but that's the expected behavior.

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This is great news and answers my query regarding YCC 4:2:2

Thanks for this information buddy

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post #2455 of 2575 Old 04-28-2018, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lowekamp View Post
The 1804 release will output RGB 4:4:4 for 4k HDR, unless your display only supports 10gbps HDMI and you enable YCC 4:2:2 support in which case it uses that. (that's a separate question from whether it's doing any color mapping correctly, but that's the expected behavior.

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Hi Bruce,

Before some months (December 2017), I tested the following types of UHD HDR10 disk signal and I got the following results:

Content: UltraHD HDR 2160p60

Settings: 2160p, 12 bit (4:2:2 Enabled)

It will playback with 2160p60 HDR 10bit YCbCr 4:2:2

------------------------------------------

Content: UltraHD HDR 2160p60

Settings: 2160p, 12 bit (4:2:2 Disabled)

It will playback with 2160p60 HDR 10bit YCbCr 4:2:0

------------------------------------------

Content: UltraHD HDR 2160p24

Settings: 2160p, 8/10/12 bit

It will playback with 2160p24 HDR 10bit RGB-Video

Firmware version was: 10.0.16299.4037 (XBOX One S)

------------------------------------------

BTW RGB and 4:4:4 are not exact the same.

RGB is uncompressed transmission while YCbCr 4:4:4 is compressed but lossless.

Its doesn't exist RGB 4:4:4 colorspace. It can be RGB or YCbCr.

You can always get less digital errors when you will output YCbCr from a player than from outputting RGB-Video, when you will watch BD/UHD10 movies (which both are using YCbCr 4:2:0 compressed video).

The player will only do the conversion from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 which requires vertical and horizontal upsampling. This is usually performed in two steps, from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 (vertical upsampling) and then 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 (horizontal upsampling).

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post #2456 of 2575 Old 04-28-2018, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Bruce,

Before some months (December 2017), I tested the following types of UHD HDR10 disk signal and I got the following results:


Content: UltraHD HDR 2160p24

Settings: 2160p, 8/10/12 bit


I should have clarified I was referring only to output for a conventional UHD HDR10 24p bluray. I don't have any UHDp60 source material.

Quote:


BTW RGB and 4:4:4 are not exact the same.

RGB is uncompressed transmission while YCbCr 4:4:4 is compressed but lossless.

Its doesn't exist RGB 4:4:4 colorspace. It can be RGB or YCbCr.

You can always get less digital errors when you will output YCbCr from a player than from outputting RGB-Video, when you will watch BD/UHD10 movies (which both are using YCbCr 4:2:0 compressed video).
.

Also true that I was sloppy there. I should have said RGB 10-bit for HDR10 source material. However, my understanding is that while 4:4:4 is a different encoding, 4:4:4 means no chroma subsampling so it's not actually compressed any more than full RGB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling#4:4:4 I don't have the actual encoding specs at the bit layer, though.

Maybe a better question is why output RGB than always YCC 4:2:2. Apparently the player does internal processing in RGB, so outputting a different encoding requires an internal downconvert. Obviously there are people who will have cable issues at 18gbps even if their display device supports it, so it's not a simple conversation. My previous 1080p setup my initial 35ft cable supported TVs but not bluray 1080p24 (I never knew what the encoding difference was but assumed it was color space) so I had to get better cables. This time I made sure I was buying good hdmi premium cables that people here reported worked at 18gbps.

I'm actually unclear what the color problems reported with the previous version were, so I don't know if any of this is relevant to fixing it.

Bruce
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post #2457 of 2575 Old 05-04-2018, 07:25 AM
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Just bought a Costco Yamaha 107 soundbar (ATS-1070) and I'm having trouble with HDR passthrough with my Xbox One S when plugged directly into the soundbar. I have the Xbox One S plugged into 4K HDMI on the soundbar and another HDMI cable going from the ARC port on the soundbar to the ARC port on my TV (Samsung MU800D).

HDR wasn't working at all until I turned my ARC port (HDMI 4) on my TV to UHD colors. Is it typical to need to turn on UHD colors (or whatever other manufacturers call it) just using the HDMI port for ARC? Is this just another HDMI handshake issue? Everything in the link has to allow HDR or it doesn't work at all?

Once I turned UHD colors on for the ARC HDMI port HDR was working, but I'm only allowed to choose 8-bit or 12-bit colors in the settings menu on the Xbox. Is this normal? Is it a Yamaha problem? When my Xbox is connected directly to the TV I can choose 10-bit colors (my TV has a 10-bit panel). When I choose 12-bit colors Netflix is washed out and grey looking. Would I be able to tell the difference between 10-bit and 8-bit colors? Or is it not a big deal?

Also, when I have the ARC HDMI port turned on to UHD colors the sound on my soundbar loses any power or punch it has. DTS virtual X is weak and everything else is really quiet. When I turn UHD colors off on the ARC HDMI port the soundbar puts out powerful and punchy sound.

Don't get me started about trying to figure out how to add my soundbar as a source when using a Harmony remote. Just so frustrating. One of the reasons I bought the Yamaha soundbar was because of the 4k/HDR passthrough.
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post #2458 of 2575 Old 05-16-2018, 12:19 PM
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Has anyone taken advantage of the Dark Knight Trilogy in UHD special at the Microsoft store? I'm curious if it's a worthwhile upgrade over the regular blu-ray copies. I'm posting here since it's a Microsoft thing I figured XB1S owners who use it as a UHD player would be more likely to purchase this. If there's a better place for discussion on this please let me know.

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post #2459 of 2575 Old 05-17-2018, 06:15 AM
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Has anyone taken advantage of the Dark Knight Trilogy in UHD special at the Microsoft store? I'm curious if it's a worthwhile upgrade over the regular blu-ray copies. I'm posting here since it's a Microsoft thing I figured XB1S owners who use it as a UHD player would be more likely to purchase this. If there's a better place for discussion on this please let me know.
You'll have more luck here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-of...ay-review.html

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post #2460 of 2575 Old 05-17-2018, 06:43 AM
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Thanks. I'll check it out. Not sure if it's different but I'm hoping to get impressions of the digital copies Microsoft is selling.
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