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-   -   Official "Help Me Choose an UHD Player" Thread (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-blu-ray-players/2482833-official-help-me-choose-uhd-player-thread.html)

ratman33 06-14-2016 12:11 PM

Official "Help Me Choose an UHD Player" Thread
 
[mod note] If you start a new thread asking for advice on buying a new UHD BD player and the thread is merged into this thread, go to the end of thread and your original post should be there, maybe back a few posts. And you may already have some input. [/mod note]


my tv is non hdr. s what is my best choice for a bluray uhd player? should I wait for the ps4 with uhd?


Mod edit:


Current models:
  1. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...-s-thread.html (MSRP $549) (DV Support)
  2. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...-s-thread.html (MSRP $1299) (DV Support)
  3. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...rice-talk.html (MSRP $199)
  4. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...rice-talk.html (MSRP $299) (DV Support coming)
  5. Xbox One S game console and player ($399 2TB model, $299 500GB model out end of year?)
  6. Panasonic DMP-UB900 player (MSRP $699)
  7. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...rice-talk.html (MSRP $249)
  8. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...-s-thread.html (MSRP $699) (DV Support)
  9. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...es-2017-a.html (7502 DV Support)
  10. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...rice-talk.html (MSRP $199)
Discontinued:


Samsung UBD-K8500 player (MSRP US$399)
Philips BDP7501 player (MSRP $349)

enricoclaudio 06-14-2016 12:37 PM

Under $400 you have basically two options: Samsung K8500 and Xbox One S 2TB Console. The problem with Xbox One S is that some things are not clear yet like fully bitstream support (Atmos, DTS:X, etc). I placed a pre order yesterday for the Xbox One S but cancelled it this morning waiting for more info related to full bitstream support. At this point I decided to wait for the new Sony PS4.5 or Neo, whatever Sony decide to call it. I need a one device solution for my bedroom because I don't have room in my rack for a Game console + UHD Blu Ray player.

ratman33 06-14-2016 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enricoclaudio (Post 44732105)
Under $400 you have basically two options: Samsung K8500 and Xbox One S 2TB Console. The problem with Xbox One S is that some things are not clear yet like fully bitstream support (Atmos, DTS:X, etc). I placed a pre order yesterday for the Xbox One S but cancelled it this morning waiting for more info related to full bitstream support. At this point I decided to wait for the new Sony PS4.5 or Neo, whatever Sony decide to call it. I need a one device solution for my bedroom because I don't have room in my rack for a Game console + UHD Blu Ray player.

cool I will wait 4.5 hopefully it will also use a more efficient cpu

drummernrg 06-15-2016 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratman33 (Post 44732297)
cool I will wait 4.5 hopefully it will also use a more efficient cpu

While we have confirmation that the Sony NEO/4K/4.5 is coming, we do not have any specs yet. According to the rumors, it will be the smaller die process = more efficient, and it will be a faster clock rate on the CPU cores. However, we have not seen anything about it being a UHD Blu-ray player and everything about it is speculative, including the price and release date.

The market for UHD blu-ray players is shaping up to be:
  1. Samsung UBD-K8500 player (retails US$399, out now)
  2. Philips BDP7501 player (out later this month? pre-order on Amazon now)
  3. Xbox One S game console and player ($399 2TB model, out late August; $299 500GB model out end of year?)
  4. Panasonic DMP-UB900 player ($699, Value Electronics pre-order for "end of July", CNET says September)
  5. Oppo UHD blu-ray player (due out by the end of the year)

Maybe:
  1. Sony NEO game console and player in October or by end of Q1-2017?
  2. Sony UHD blu-ray player by Q1-2017?
  3. LG UHD blu-ray player?
  4. Everyone else and then generation 2 of the above.

AllenA07 06-20-2016 08:14 PM

It's really amazing that 4 months into UHD we still only have a single option. I'm waiting on the Oppo personally, hopefully it makes an appearance by the holidays.

swarm87 06-24-2016 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllenA07 (Post 44871945)
It's really amazing that 4 months into UHD we still only have a single option. I'm waiting on the Oppo personally, hopefully it makes an appearance by the holidays.

same but the suspense in killing me; as is the adding of UHD discs to my amazon cart

golffnutt 06-27-2016 08:12 AM

Need Help
 
Hi Guys. Need help choosing a new 4K/3D blu-ray player to replace my old Oppo 83. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. Budget is $500. Thanks a million for your expertise and advise. Have a wonderful day.

JeffR1 06-27-2016 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golffnutt (Post 45000386)
Hi Guys. Need help choosing a new 4K/3D blu-ray player to replace my old Oppo 83. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. Budget is $500. Thanks a million for your expertise and advise. Have a wonderful day.

Logically your next step would be the Oppo-103 for 499.00$
But if you're going with Oppo, why not extend your budget and go for a native 4K from Oppo when they arrive _ if that's important to you.
If you're just interested in upscaling and not native 4K an HTPC with MPC-HC with MadVR is also a god alternative.
Cost is a problem though and you have to read and teach your self about MadVR and how to use it _ it's OK when you get into it.
I say cost because you need a decent video card to run MadVR.

An HTPC with a good video card and MadVR also does the best job in upscaling to 4K if you ever plan on getting a native 4K display.

Keep in mind that if you do plan on going with UHD-Blu-ray, that there may never be any options for UHD play-back on an HTPC.

teachsac 06-27-2016 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golffnutt (Post 45000386)
Hi Guys. Need help choosing a new 4K/3D blu-ray player to replace my old Oppo 83. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. Budget is $500. Thanks a million for your expertise and advise. Have a wonderful day.

If you are looking for an UHD/4k player, you'll have to wait for an Oppo. There are only the Samsung and Philips players out right now, with Panasonic coming later this summer.

drummernrg 06-27-2016 02:23 PM

Value Electronics (of the annual TV Shootout) is advertising pre-order of the Panasonic DMP-UB900UHD Blu-ray Player at $699 tentatively available "end of July." It is linked off the Value Electronics home page, it seems that AVSForum does not let me embed the URL properly to a competitor's web site: https://www.*********************/Pa..._DMP-UB900.php. CNet posted a slight preview that says it will arrive in September = http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-dmp-ub900/

Amazon has listed the Philips BDP7501 for pre-order recently: $399, no shipping date specified yet.

Some have said the 2TB XBox One S with UHD player will be available late in August for $399, the $299 500GB XBox One S with UHD player will release for the holidays. It will support HDR-10 (confirmed on Twitter), but it may not support bitstream audio for immersive formats (Atmos, DTS:X, Auro3D).

I will update my previous entry in this thread, post 4.

drummernrg 07-01-2016 09:16 AM

Darbee is going UHD this year
 
An AVS'er corrected me in another thread: Darbee has announced that is it producing an UHD enhancement SoC this year.

It is assumed that Darbee will be in the forthcoming Oppo UHD Blu-ray player and presumably Darbee will produce a stand-alone consumer UHD processor.

DarbeeVision Joins the Ultra HD Forum = http://www.ingearpr.com/DarbeeVision/160616.html
Darbee demonstration of UHD enhancement =

vulgartrendkill 07-02-2016 10:45 PM

Is there any news on Dolby Vision support in UHD players? I realise it is not in the official spec, but surely some discs will start to filter down? Or would it have to miss off HDR10 if it did include DV?

All of these units at the moment look pretty good to me, but as ever with early products are very expensive!

SUOrangeman 07-03-2016 08:01 AM

Device comparison spreadsheet
 
With some controversy (mostly from the Content guys), I'm trying to track 4K HDR content and devices in a spreadsheet on Google Docs:

http://bit.do/suo-avsdocs

You can filter on UHD players on the Devices tab.

I could use some help adding and correcting information already there.

Thanks!

-SUO

drummernrg 07-03-2016 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vulgartrendkill (Post 45123098)
Is there any news on Dolby Vision support in UHD players? I realise it is not in the official spec, but surely some discs will start to filter down? Or would it have to miss off HDR10 if it did include DV?

No announcements from Dolby for home consumer DV physical media and players yet!

We have seen one manufacturer announce a Dolby DV System on a Chip (SoC) ready for production by the end of the year, but it feels like 2017 would be the year that we'll see products deliver DV. In the meantime, we have UHD HDR-DV streaming movies.

landonsdad 07-05-2016 12:12 PM

We have choices now.
 
Panasonic DMP-UB900
Samsung UBD-K8500

Xbox One


and I am sure Sony will be coming out with a stand alone and a new PS? And others?



I was ready to get the Samsung, but do you think we need to wait a little longer now?

landonsdad 07-05-2016 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landonsdad (Post 45165753)
Panasonic DMP-UB900
Samsung UBD-K8500
Xbox One

and I am sure Sony will be coming out with a stand alone and a new PS? And others?

I was ready to get the Samsung, but do you think we need to wait a little longer now?

I am assuming the Xbox One 2T is a 4k player and not just an upscaler. Can someone advice me if I am wrong?

landonsdad 07-05-2016 12:38 PM

Dolby Vision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vulgartrendkill (Post 45123098)
Is there any news on Dolby Vision support in UHD players? I realize it is not in the official spec, but surely some discs will start to filter down? Or would it have to miss off HDR10 if it did include DV?

I also wondered if anyone was leery of Dolby Vision. If your tv is not rated for DV, could it be added in a firmware? I am not sure what can be added in firmware.

I am still shopping for the whole ball of wax. Was leaning towards the Sony 930D which is not DV, but wondering if I should look at Vizio that is.

drummernrg 07-05-2016 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landonsdad (Post 45166401)
If your tv is not rated for DV, could it be added in a firmware?

Firmware varies in how much it encompasses per device, it can comprise any range from the equivalent of computer BIOS, operating system, and/or apps.

I won't say that it is impossible, but we've never seen something like Dolby Vision added to a display, presumably because it requires licensing, software, and hardware design. We have seen Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, and Auro-3D added to audio-video receivers firmware, but they were advertised as having that capability forthcoming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by landonsdad (Post 45166401)
I am still shopping for the whole ball of wax. Was leaning towards the Sony 930D which is not DV, but wondering if I should look at Vizio that is.

You should compare, regardless! You might change your mind irrespective of HDR-DV, which exists only on streaming services today and we hope it will arrive sometime in 2017 with new UHD blu-ray players.

drummernrg 07-05-2016 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landonsdad (Post 45165817)
I am assuming the Xbox One 2T is a 4k player and not just an upscaler. Can someone advice me if I am wrong?

You omitted the "S" to distinguish the new line from the existing XBox One and the forthcoming Scorpio.

Yes, it will be a native (no upscaling) UHD blu-ray player with HDR-10. However, that doesn't prevent the XBox One S from potentially upscaling other sources (apps, HD blu-ray, and games) to UHD, we'll have to see when it comes out in late August. Some have criticized the audio output features as being crippled (no bitstream), we'll have to confirm that in the future, too.

Note that I didn't use the term 4K because is a little bit of a misnomer (look it up), although we see the consumer industry regularly use 4K interchangeably with UHD.

drummernrg 07-05-2016 10:28 PM

@puddy77 pointed to a new HDGuru interview with Dolby about consumer UHD Blu-ray player and media:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post45152225

Unfortunately, it didn't reveal any new information for release timing, but it does recap a lot of information together nicely.

landonsdad 07-06-2016 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummernrg (Post 45176905)
You omitted the "S" to distinguish the new line from the existing XBox One and the forthcoming Scorpio.

Yes, it will be a native (no upscaling) UHD blu-ray player with HDR-10. However, that doesn't prevent the XBox One S from potentially upscaling other sources (apps, HD blu-ray, and games) to UHD, we'll have to see when it comes out in late August. Some have criticized the audio output features as being crippled (no bitstream), we'll have to confirm that in the future, too.

Note that I didn't use the term 4K because is a little bit of a misnomer (look it up), although we see the consumer industry regularly use 4K interchangeably with UHD.

I am still learning. So it is possible to get UHD without a 4K tv?

landonsdad 07-06-2016 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummernrg (Post 45176793)
Firmware varies in how much it encompasses per device, it can comprise any range from the equivalent of computer BIOS, operating system, and/or apps.

I won't say that it is impossible, but we've never seen something like Dolby Vision added to a display, presumably because it requires licensing, software, and hardware design. We have seen Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, and Auro-3D added to audio-video receivers firmware, but they were advertised as having that capability forthcoming.



You should compare, regardless! You might change your mind irrespective of HDR-DV, which exists only on streaming services today and we hope it will arrive sometime in 2017 with new UHD blu-ray players.

Again I find myself not being clear in the way I type things. By whole ball of wax, I mean TV, Rec/Amp, and UHD Blu Ray player, along with some Atmos speakers.

I believe if everything works together today, it should last me 5-7 years, even though I might not be up to date with the current options.

I have made 2 mistakes thus far, I bought a Mits DLP that was promised to be 3D, and I had to buy a 3D kit to make it work. Then I bought a Denon 3808 that I learned was not capable of passing 3D content only to find out it could, so not so bad here. But still no wireless connections.

I have pretty much picked a Marantz 7010 to be my Rec/Amp. I will add ext amp later for my mains for music mainly. I just want everything to play together nicely with as much future proofing as I can get today. TV and UHD player still up in air. I like Sony's colors better than Samsungs. Just can't see Vizio in my main room. Hoping to see something from Panny.

drummernrg 07-06-2016 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landonsdad (Post 45189953)
Again I find myself not being clear in the way I type things. By whole ball of wax, I mean TV, Rec/Amp, and UHD Blu Ray player, along with some Atmos speakers. I believe if everything works together today, it should last me 5-7 years, even though I might not be up to date with the current options.

Future proofing with UHD is difficult today because we have permutations and evolution in frame rate, WCG, HDR, and immersive audio as well as potential HDMI changes. As a result, many choices today are considered early adopter territory, which limits future proofing. And we will see how UHD media shakes out: when will Disney enter the market, what will they support?

For HDR, even if you buy a display that can do HDR-10 and HDR-DV, we do not know if they will support the other, optional and forthcoming HDR standards for broadcast. Displays are also advancing in HDR maximum nits and WCG % of BT.2020 color space. Because you want the whole ball of wax: you should wait because too much is evolving.

I had been eyeing the Marantz: I do not believe it will pass through HDR, some UHD Blu-ray players include two HDMI outs to allow bypassing that issue. I will wait to upgrade my AVR.

I took this advice: buy a display from a reputable retailer, understand the return options, and let them know you want to compare brand X to brand Y in your home and weigh their advice for which to start with. After I brought home a Vizio P65, it was great and I couldn't justify 2X+ the cost for an OLED. Now I am hungry for UHD blu-ray, but will probably wait until Oppo releases their product at the end of the year or a good sale.

landonsdad 07-07-2016 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummernrg (Post 45200641)
Future proofing with UHD is difficult today because we have permutations and evolution in frame rate, WCG, HDR, and immersive audio as well as potential HDMI changes. As a result, many choices today are considered early adopter territory, which limits future proofing. And we will see how UHD media shakes out: when will Disney enter the market, what will they support?

For HDR, even if you buy a display that can do HDR-10 and HDR-DV, we do not know if they will support the other, optional and forthcoming HDR standards for broadcast. Displays are also advancing in HDR maximum nits and WCG % of BT.2020 color space. Because you want the whole ball of wax: you should wait because too much is evolving.

I had been eyeing the Marantz: I do not believe it will pass through HDR, some UHD Blu-ray players include two HDMI outs to allow bypassing that issue. I will wait to upgrade my AVR.

I took this advice: buy a display from a reputable retailer, understand the return options, and let them know you want to compare brand X to brand Y in your home and weigh their advice for which to start with. After I brought home a Vizio P65, it was great and I couldn't justify 2X+ the cost for an OLED. Now I am hungry for UHD blu-ray, but will probably wait until Oppo releases their product at the end of the year or a good sale.

Again, when I say whole ball of wax, I don't mean the very best of the best. I am also looking at a TV under $3k max. Sammy 9000, Sony 930D close to 2K open box, and the P65. Hopefully some firmware updates could help me along. I am unaware of what can be fixed with firmware and what can't. And again, I need a brand, that if possible, would keep their customers happy with updates.

I assumed the Marantz could pass anything the TV was capable of playing.

Beta was better than VHS but VHS won because the market had been saturated with VHS players for less $. I see HDR following this trend. Everyone can't buy a TV every time they want to change the format.

jeff43 07-08-2016 05:53 AM

It looks like the Samsung and Panasonic player both can handle refresh rates of 50hz and 60hz. Can anyone confirm this? I have a few blu ray's that are 50hz and won't play on some players. I'm leaning towards the Panasonic when it releases but the ability to play 50hz discs is more important to me and I'm 99% sure the Samsung will.

drummernrg 07-08-2016 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landonsdad (Post 45218809)
I am also looking at a TV under $3k max. Sammy 9000, Sony 930D close to 2K open box, and the P65. Hopefully some firmware updates could help me along.

The following is my opinion: I would leave out the AVR and UHD blu-ray as being critical in your display evaluation because you want to see an improvement before introducing other factors, i.e.: test the hypothesis. In fact, you should be browsing the owner threads of those displays for information on how to evaluate them and how well they are supported, just note that on the Internet it seems that more people complain than compliment, no matter which topic! :~)

Bring one display home, judge it for everything you do on your current display: broadcast or cable TV + recordings, DVDs and HD blu-rays, streaming services like Netflix, and gaming. You should see an improvement to justify the investment, otherwise return it and try the next brand because this first stage of evaluation will be the majority of your viewing until UHD becomes normal.

HDR is the second stage of evaluation of your display: because HDR-DV is so early, you can't really compare HDR-10 to HDR-DV easily. The easiest approach to evaluate HDR today is to feed your display streaming HDR-10 from Amazon or Netflix (if you have proper bandwidth from your ISP) or buy a UHD blu-ray player. If your display does HDR-DV, you can try Vudu streaming. This implicitly tests your ISP, everything is UHD, and now you should see HDR. If HDR doesn't impress you, return the display and repeat the first evaluation with the next choice: now you will be able to compare (from memory) how well the displays impress you. Our memory is fallible and you may not be calibrating the displays for proper comparison, but your impressions on how easy it is to operate the display and the overall out of the box performance should be sound.

If you are happy with the results of both stages, keep your display. Don't worry about firmware updates because they generally deal with bugs and compatibility issues, not adding new features. The only exception I know is that Vizio promised adding HDR-10 to the P series this summer and it hasn't happened yet. You would also need to add an external TV tuner for OTA to the P65 if that's important to you.

You can move onto your AVR upgrade next to insure it supports everything you've tested above and/or try adding UHD blu-ray if you find your ISP can't handle streaming UHD HDR + subscriptions without a justifiable monthly cost.

Anyhow, there are a lot of factors, I've tried to streamline the evaluation process by focusing on the display somewhat without knowing your criteria that you want addressed in future firmware.

HarpNinja 07-14-2016 09:00 AM

I have an Epson 3500 and a Denon x2200w as part of a 5.1.2 set up. Will the Samsung 8500 be a good fit for me? I eventually want to be at 5.1.4 and want to play UHD with Atmos on my 1080p set up. I already have been buying UHD discs for this application.

It doesn't appear there will be sub $300 options out yet this year, right? Thanks!

landonsdad 07-14-2016 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpNinja (Post 45354273)
I have an Epson 3500 and a Denon x2200w as part of a 5.1.2 set up. Will the Samsung 8500 be a good fit for me? I eventually want to be at 5.1.4 and want to play UHD with Atmos on my 1080p set up. I already have been buying UHD discs for this application.

It doesn't appear there will be sub $300 options out yet this year, right? Thanks!

I am confused. I thought UHD was 4k, not 1080P. Are you saying you want the Atmos sound with 1080P PQ?

drummernrg 07-15-2016 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landonsdad (Post 45358249)
Are you saying you want the Atmos sound with 1080P PQ?

Yes, it appears the Epson 3500 is a HD-1080P projector. It seems that Atmos on HD Blu-ray is uncommon, but common for UHD Blu-ray releases.

The only Atmos streaming source today is Vudu = http://www.dolby.com/us/en/experienc...streaming.html

teachsac 07-15-2016 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpNinja (Post 45354273)
I have an Epson 3500 and a Denon x2200w as part of a 5.1.2 set up. Will the Samsung 8500 be a good fit for me? I eventually want to be at 5.1.4 and want to play UHD with Atmos on my 1080p set up. I already have been buying UHD discs for this application.

It doesn't appear there will be sub $300 options out yet this year, right? Thanks!

Several members have used the 8500 with their 1080p displays just for the Atmos soundtrack. It works.

S~


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