Official OPPO UDP-203 Owner's Thread - Page 254 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7591 of 37071 Old 01-13-2017, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I think we are having trouble with the statement "This TV simply upscales 4K HDR images far better than the player". If the disk is 4K HDR, then neither the player nor the display is upscaling anything--it is already 4K.
OK. Then I'll change the word "upscaling" to the Sony "presents" a far better image than the 203. Gosh, I really, at this point, have nothing more to add, except the source direct option, w/the Sony, blows every other option off the table. BTW, I'm a certified nut for the very best PQ on planet earth! Jerry
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post #7592 of 37071 Old 01-13-2017, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jb442386 View Post
OK. Then I'll change the word "upscaling" to the Sony "presents" a far better image than the 203. Gosh, I really, at this point, have nothing more to add, except the source direct option, w/the Sony, blows every other option off the table. BTW, I'm a certified nut for the very best PQ on planet earth! Jerry
I don't think we are disputing that the PQ is better, we are just trying to understand what the difference is. Set the Oppo to output Source Direct and then check the signal it is sending. If it is sending 4:2:2 12bit, then change the Oppo to custom, and set the output to 4:2:2 12bit. Now compare the pictures. I would think that the PQ would now be the same, since the signal format is the same. If you still see a difference, I would enjoy hearing theories as to why, either from you or from the other experts here.

I am a Sony owner as well (940D), so I am well aware that the Bravia up-scaler is very good. But as I said before, up-scaling is not in play in the example you gave.
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post #7593 of 37071 Old 01-13-2017, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
I've played the beginning of that UHD into my LG E6 many times and have not seen any artifacts such as you describe. Can you list a few specific time codes where you are seeing this?

NOTE: If you have TruMotion turned on in your LG while playing this, try turning it OFF and see if the artifacts go away. Indeed it's best to try turning off ALL the video "enhancement" options to see if the artifacts are due to any of those. You'll actually have to have the UHD disc playing to get access to the Picture Mode settings used in the LG for HDR content.
--Bob
You got it right Bob, it's from using dejudder even at the lowest setting will cause this effect. Maybe I might just go back to "0"

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post #7594 of 37071 Old 01-13-2017, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jb442386 View Post
OK. Then I'll change the word "upscaling" to the Sony "presents" a far better image than the 203. Gosh, I really, at this point, have nothing more to add, except the source direct option, w/the Sony, blows every other option off the table. BTW, I'm a certified nut for the very best PQ on planet earth! Jerry
You're still not getting the message.

What the Sony is doing is presenting the image that the 203 sends it. The 203 does not show an image, the TV does, and the image the TV shows is the image determined by the data sent to it from a source like the 203 plus any picture quality settings you have made in the Sony's menus. The Source Direct option tells the 203 to output the signal at the same resolution as it is stored on disc/file and to apply only whatever chroma, colour space, and bit depth operations which are necessary for the transmission of a "legal" signal over HDMI. With a 4K signal from a UHD disc, Source Direct means the 203 sends a 4K signal and the TV does no upscaling. With a normal BD, it means that the 203 will output a 1920 x 1080 pixel image which the Sony will upscale to 4K, and with DVD the 203 will output a 720 x 480 pixel image (720 x 576 pixels for PAL system discs) which the Sony will upscale to 4K.

Alternatively you could have the 203 upscale BDs and DVDs to 4K and send a 4K image to the Sony which would then do no upscaling, just as it does not upscale a 4K image from a UHD disc. It is possible that the Sony can do a better job of upscaling BD and DVD output to 4K than the 203 does, in which case you would expect to see better results from Source Direct output from the 203 with normal BD and DVD content.

The Sony is not presenting a far better image than the 203, it is presenting the image that the 203 is sending it. It seems that you have found a combination of settings on the Sony and the 203 that you are extremely happy with, which is what you want, but the Sony is not presenting a better image than the 203, it is presenting the 203's image output. There's a saying "It takes two to tango". Well, it takes two devices to let you see the picture on your shiny optical discs, a disc player and a display. Both are necessary and they do different jobs, they aren't competing with each other. You need both to get the content on the disc onto your screen and the image looks better when you have both of them doing their individual jobs well. The wrong settings on the 203 will not let the TV deliver the best possible image but if you have the right settings on the 203 and the wrong settings on the Sony you aren't going to get the best possible image either. The best possible image requires both player and TV to be doing their best, and all it takes to get less than the best possible image is for one of them not to be doing its best and that one could be either, the 203 or the TV, or for both not to be doing their best if you want the worst case scenario.
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post #7595 of 37071 Old 01-13-2017, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
Using minidlna for testing I'm getting PGS subtitles on both the 103D and the 203. I wonder if Plex has some sort of profile that delivers different goods to different devices?

I do find that the 203 does not see MKV chapters over DLNA and the 103D does. I'll report that.

SMB also works for both players, no trouble with subtitles or chapters.

-Bill
Thanks for testing this Bill. I'm happy to see you can use a DLNA server that works for both the 103/203.

I just noticed that MiniDLNA is for Linux so I decided to try some other DLNA servers on Windows. I tried both JRiver and OShare and in both cases, similar to Plex, the subtitle options are recognized in the Subtitle menu, but when I select one of the subtitles from the list no text shows up on the screen.
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post #7596 of 37071 Old 01-13-2017, 10:51 PM
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Audio Dropouts on FLAC Playback

Tonight I experimented with playing music streamed as flac files off my NAS [QNAP 431, everything ethernet]. Pretty consistently the first song would have several dropouts, then all would be well. Everytime I changed albums, I'd experience several dropouts in the first minute, then all would be well until I changed albums again.

Anyone else seeing this? Kinda/Sorta consistent with my movie experience where a new movie has a few audio dropouts in the first few minutes and then does fine.
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post #7597 of 37071 Old 01-13-2017, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Now that you know that's what works best with your Display you can set that explicitly instead of Source Direct, and thus, for example, not lose the Zoom feature you mentioned:

Custom > UHD Auto, Color Space 4:2:2, Color Depth 12b.

--Bob
Can i ask, for what reason would it send in this specification if using Source Direct? Surely it should send in 10bit 4:4:4 before 12bit 4:2:2 seeing as 10bit is what is on the disk?
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post #7598 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Thanks for testing this Bill. I'm happy to see you can use a DLNA server that works for both the 103/203.

I just noticed that MiniDLNA is for Linux so I decided to try some other DLNA servers on Windows. I tried both JRiver and OShare and in both cases, similar to Plex, the subtitle options are recognized in the Subtitle menu, but when I select one of the subtitles from the list no text shows up on the screen.
My experience is the same as Cipher - both my 103 & 203 are able to see that the PGS subtitles are present when streaming via dlna (Serviio in my case) but selecting them does nothing. Play the same file from SMB or USB they work fine.

I did report this when the 103 was my main player and was told that they were aware but that it was unlikely to be fixed. Which was a bit of a shame.

My files are produced using Handbrake - lots of different versions of the last few years - and the result is always the same.


What I have reported this time is that the 203 cannot see flac or dsf files presented by Serviio. I initially reported that it couldn't see any music files at all and was hopefully that the beta would sort this since it's specifically mentioned in the release notes but it looks like they only fixed mp3 and WMA delivery... Here hoping the next release helps more. I was a bit disappointed in their response (or attitude really) as on both occasions their response has been to more or less assume that it couldn't possibly be their fault, even when it turns out that it was their fault! I really would appreciate if somebody else could confirm this issue though ( other dlna servers do present flac files fine by the way).

Thanks!
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post #7599 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Thanks for testing this Bill. I'm happy to see you can use a DLNA server that works for both the 103/203.

I just noticed that MiniDLNA is for Linux so I decided to try some other DLNA servers on Windows. I tried both JRiver and OShare and in both cases, similar to Plex, the subtitle options are recognized in the Subtitle menu, but when I select one of the subtitles from the list no text shows up on the screen.
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Originally Posted by ianfretwell View Post
My experience is the same as Cipher - both my 103 & 203 are able to see that the PGS subtitles are present when streaming via dlna (Serviio in my case) but selecting them does nothing. Play the same file from SMB or USB they work fine.
That's consistently weird: both 103 and 203 are capable of using PGS subtitles over DLNA (as with minidlna) but not with other servers. I do not know enough DLNA internals to understand why. The JRiver people seemed knowledgeable: have you tried raising the issue in their forums? Even if an OPPO fix is required they might know the specifics.

Quote:
What I have reported this time is that the 203 cannot see flac or dsf files presented by Serviio. I initially reported that it couldn't see any music files at all and was hopefully that the beta would sort this since it's specifically mentioned in the release notes but it looks like they only fixed mp3 and WMA delivery... Here hoping the next release helps more.
Wait: new DLNA file types showed up on the OPPO after a firmware upgrade? I would have thought missing file types would have been a server rather than a player issue, but as I say, DLNA is a bit mysterious sometimes.

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post #7600 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 06:52 AM
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You got it right Bob, it's from using dejudder even at the lowest setting will cause this effect. Maybe I might just go back to "0"
I've been shocked at how easy it is to spot artifacts with ANY TruMotion processing engaged in the LG E6. Makes you wonder what on earth they were thinking?

That said, on my LG E6, I've been using the weird combo of TruMotion = User with both the de-Blur and de-Judder sliders set to 0. As best I can tell, this is the equivalent of TruMotion OFF as far as the resulting image is concerned -- in particular NO ARTIFACTS -- but it has the benefit that the E6 uses the same video processing time regardless of whether the video sent to it is 4K/24 or 4K/60. Which means I only need to use one A/V Sync adjustment across both of those.
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post #7601 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by WMConey View Post
Tonight I experimented with playing music streamed as flac files off my NAS [QNAP 431, everything ethernet]. Pretty consistently the first song would have several dropouts, then all would be well. Everytime I changed albums, I'd experience several dropouts in the first minute, then all would be well until I changed albums again.

Anyone else seeing this? Kinda/Sorta consistent with my movie experience where a new movie has a few audio dropouts in the first few minutes and then does fine.
Nothing like that here. It does sound like an issue in the NAS. If you're using DNLA, try SMB, and vice verse.
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post #7602 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 07:10 AM
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An interesting thought about Oppo not releasing apps on the player. A while back, I thought that we needed apps on the player so we could get audio formats such as Dolby Atmos because the HDMI ARC on the TV couldn't support it. Now it looks like for the 2017 sets, we will see Dolby Atmos over ARC supported so maybe that could be a contributing factor in addition to all of the streaming devices available now, why Oppo is holding off on the apps?
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post #7603 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 07:15 AM
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Nothing like that here. It does sound like an issue in the NAS. If you're using DNLA, try SMB, and vice verse.
Well, maybe, except no problems at all playing the same files through a Popcorn Hour A410 or the AVR directly....
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post #7604 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 07:26 AM
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An interesting thought about Oppo not releasing apps on the player. A while back, I thought that we needed apps on the player so we could get audio formats such as Dolby Atmos because the HDMI ARC on the TV couldn't support it. Now it looks like for the 2017 sets, we will see Dolby Atmos over ARC supported so maybe that could be a contributing factor in addition to all of the streaming devices available now, why Oppo is holding off on the apps?
I don't miss the apps. My 93 had apps and slowly one by one they got removed or their functionality got out of date. I'm halfway tempted to do a PC for my home theater but my Samsung Plasma works fine with the very few apps I use like Amazon. I consider Oppo players to be excellent disc players and lousy at everything else. DLNA is worse than my Marantz preamp so I won't likely use it unless they add gapless for it with FLAC files. Since all I ever play through my 203 are mostly Blu-Ray and some DVD discs with the very occasional CD or SACD I'm fine.
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post #7605 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 07:44 AM
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You're still not getting the message.

What the Sony is doing is presenting the image that the 203 sends it. The 203 does not show an image, the TV does, and the image the TV shows is the image determined by the data sent to it from a source like the 203 plus any picture quality settings you have made in the Sony's menus. The Source Direct option tells the 203 to output the signal at the same resolution as it is stored on disc/file and to apply only whatever chroma, colour space, and bit depth operations which are necessary for the transmission of a "legal" signal over HDMI. With a 4K signal from a UHD disc, Source Direct means the 203 sends a 4K signal and the TV does no upscaling. With a normal BD, it means that the 203 will output a 1920 x 1080 pixel image which the Sony will upscale to 4K, and with DVD the 203 will output a 720 x 480 pixel image (720 x 576 pixels for PAL system discs) which the Sony will upscale to 4K.

Alternatively you could have the 203 upscale BDs and DVDs to 4K and send a 4K image to the Sony which would then do no upscaling, just as it does not upscale a 4K image from a UHD disc. It is possible that the Sony can do a better job of upscaling BD and DVD output to 4K than the 203 does, in which case you would expect to see better results from Source Direct output from the 203 with normal BD and DVD content.

The Sony is not presenting a far better image than the 203, it is presenting the image that the 203 is sending it. It seems that you have found a combination of settings on the Sony and the 203 that you are extremely happy with, which is what you want, but the Sony is not presenting a better image than the 203, it is presenting the 203's image output. There's a saying "It takes two to tango". Well, it takes two devices to let you see the picture on your shiny optical discs, a disc player and a display. Both are necessary and they do different jobs, they aren't competing with each other. You need both to get the content on the disc onto your screen and the image looks better when you have both of them doing their individual jobs well. The wrong settings on the 203 will not let the TV deliver the best possible image but if you have the right settings on the 203 and the wrong settings on the Sony you aren't going to get the best possible image either. The best possible image requires both player and TV to be doing their best, and all it takes to get less than the best possible image is for one of them not to be doing its best and that one could be either, the 203 or the TV, or for both not to be doing their best if you want the worst case scenario.
David; Thanks for taking the time to respond. Well, not much to add, except the source direct option, at least w/the Sony, for me presents the very finest PQ. Thanks Again-Jerry
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post #7606 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 08:47 AM
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I hope Oppo do add apps - it would save me buying a streaming box for my projector setup.
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post #7607 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 08:52 AM
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I am confused as to the Output Resolution setting on the 203. I want the 203 to upscale BD and DVD before being sent to my display unit. I also want a 4K signal from the 203 to not be upscaled by my display. Do I use UHD Auto, UHD 24 or something else?
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post #7608 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 09:00 AM
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I am confused as to the Output Resolution setting on the 203. I want the 203 to upscale BD and DVD before being sent to my display unit. I also want a 4K signal from the 203 to not be upscaled by my display. Do I use UHD Auto, UHD 24 or something else?
Not upscaled: a 4k display is not going to scale a 4k signal.

Use Output Resolution = Custom, Custom Resolution = UHD Auto. When playing the different types of disc, press and hold the Info button on the remote and scroll down to the HDMI Output section. This will verify the resolution the player is sending, and also give details on color space and bit depth.

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post #7609 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 09:02 AM
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I am confused as to the Output Resolution setting on the 203. I want the 203 to upscale BD and DVD before being sent to my display unit. I also want a 4K signal from the 203 to not be upscaled by my display. Do I use UHD Auto, UHD 24 or something else?
The 203 default settings should be all you need -- they should already be set to Auto. Make sure the Output Resolution is on Auto and go for it.

If you think there is a problem with your final display, you can start going down through the options, but most likely you will end up with what Output Resolution "Auto" provides by default.

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post #7610 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 09:04 AM
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I just leave the resolutions, color space and bit in auto.
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post #7611 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 09:11 AM
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The 203 default settings should be all you need -- they should already be set to Auto. Make sure the Output Resolution is on Auto and go for it.

If you think there is a problem with your final display, you can start going down through the options, but most likely you will end up with what Output Resolution "Auto" provides by default.
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I just leave the resolutions, color space and bit in auto.
And that works!

I have an instinctive distrust of Auto-anything in consumer electronics, but life has gotten so complicated that we depend on automatic configuration more and more. So I am moving into "trust but verify", which is why the extended Info display is so useful.

Now and then we run into old gear that doesn't correctly tell the OPPO the best settings to use, which is when we have to get specific. Surely new displays don't do that in 2017, right? And receivers don't interfere with that communication?

Well, use Auto and just check that's it's not sending 1080p instead of UHD, and not RGB instead of YCbCr (unless... does any modern device really prefer that? I don't know).

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post #7612 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
Not upscaled: a 4k display is not going to scale a 4k signal.

Use Output Resolution = Custom, Custom Resolution = UHD Auto. When playing the different types of disc, press and hold the Info button on the remote and scroll down to the HDMI Output section. This will verify the resolution the player is sending, and also give details on color space and bit depth.

-Bill
Thank..I meant to write Custom Resolution but always get those two confused. whats the difference with setting Output Resolution to Source Direct as opposed to Custom?
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post #7613 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 09:54 AM
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Thank..I meant to write Custom Resolution but always get those two confused. whats the difference with setting Output Resolution to Source Direct as opposed to Custom?
Source Direct is different than any other choice in that it adapts to the source material in what it sends for resolution and frame rate. It sends the native video without alteration in so far as possible.

North American DVDs will be 480i60. Most commonly Blu-rays will be 1080p24 and UHD will be 2160p24.

All the other settings (including Output Resolution = Auto) pick a resolution and frame rate and stick to it (frame rate has to be adjusted sometimes).

-Bill
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post #7614 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 10:15 AM
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Some screenshots from The Shallows (JS8500 and Oppo 203)
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______________
Thanks, Jay
Spoiler!
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post #7615 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 10:25 AM
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Greetings to all

Hoping the board can point me in the right direction here. Took delivery of the UHD player that shares the name of this thread and I'm wondering if its DOA.

I have attempted to connect the UHD-203 to two different displays and am not able to generate a picture. I've tried pressing as well as holding the 'resolution' button on the remote without any luck.

I suspect something may be wrong with the unit as once I power it on, I get the "hello oppo" screen, then "no disc". At this point, the remote does not appear to be responsive and neither is the power button on the unit.
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JVC RS600 ¤ 130" Wide Seymour XD 2.35:1
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post #7616 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianfretwell View Post
My experience is the same as Cipher - both my 103 & 203 are able to see that the PGS subtitles are present when streaming via dlna (Serviio in my case) but selecting them does nothing. Play the same file from SMB or USB they work fine.

I did report this when the 103 was my main player and was told that they were aware but that it was unlikely to be fixed. Which was a bit of a shame.

My files are produced using Handbrake - lots of different versions of the last few years - and the result is always the same.
Thanks, ianfretwell. so based on our testing, and Bill's, with MKV's containing PGS subtitles played via DLNA we have the following:

1) MiniDLNA - PGS subs are available and display when selected
2) Plex Server on Windows - PGS subs are available, but do not display when selected
3) Plex Server on Synology - PGS subs are available, but do not display when selected
4) OnShare - PGS subs are available, but do not display when selected
5) JRiver - PGS subs are available, but do not display when selected
6) Serviio - PGS subs are available, but do not display when selected

Related to this, I've confirmed that the Plex web app can display the subtitles which I'm assuming is also using DLNA.

Given all this info, I'm starting to lean towards this being a programming/implementation issue on the 203/103 (probably same code base) where this works under certain conditions, but isn't working under most.

I'm going to open a support case with Oppo and present them with this info to see if we can get any more information. If anyone has any different results using the above DLNA servers or additional DLNA servers that do/do not work that would also be helpful.
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post #7617 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 10:30 AM
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I have a bit of OCD, I actually check the Oppo extended info AND my Marantz Preamp on every flick, just to make sure what I know should be sent is being sent.
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post #7618 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
Using minidlna for testing I'm getting PGS subtitles on both the 103D and the 203. I wonder if Plex has some sort of profile that delivers different goods to different devices?

I do find that the 203 does not see MKV chapters over DLNA and the 103D does. I'll report that.

SMB also works for both players, no trouble with subtitles or chapters.

-Bill
Happy to see that you also get the problem with MKV chapters. I previously reported it to OPPO London a while back and they did say there were aware of it.
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post #7619 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichart View Post
Greetings to all

Hoping the board can point me in the right direction here. Took delivery of the UHD player that shares the name of this thread and I'm wondering if its DOA.

I have attempted to connect the UHD-203 to two different displays and am not able to generate a picture. I've tried pressing as well as holding the 'resolution' button on the remote without any luck.

I suspect something may be wrong with the unit as once I power it on, I get the "hello oppo" screen, then "no disc". At this point, the remote does not appear to be responsive and neither is the power button on the unit.
We had a bunch of similar reports a few weeks ago, not so much recently.

In that case the player was prompting for a firmware update first thing, but you couldn't see it for some reason. If you press ENTER on the remote or PLAY on the front panel does anything happen?

Do you have ethernet connected? Try disconnecting for now.

You say the RESOLUTION button on the remote does nothing? It doesn't cycle through Auto / Custom / Source Direct on the front panel?

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: UDP-203 | BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
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post #7620 of 37071 Old 01-14-2017, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
We had a bunch of similar reports a few weeks ago, not so much recently.

In that case the player was prompting for a firmware update first thing, but you couldn't see it for some reason. If you press ENTER on the remote or PLAY on the front panel does anything happen?

Do you have ethernet connected? Try disconnecting for now.

You say the RESOLUTION button on the remote does nothing? It doesn't cycle through Auto / Custom / Source Direct on the front panel?

-Bill
I began without the ethernet plugged and thought maybe it needed the network for something? I will disconnect and try hitting "ok" or play.

When I hit the RESOLUTION button, the display on the oppo does not change and just says "No Disc".

Also, the EJECT button on the unit does not work either.

JVC RS600 ¤ 130" Wide Seymour XD 2.35:1
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HTPC GTX1080 + MadVR is my master now ¤ Zidoo X8
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