Official OPPO UDP-203 Owner's Thread - Page 425 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12721 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
Have to agree with Brent. Sure sounds like a cable issue. BJC are good cables but 25' is borderline. That's why you're having sporadic issues. Might try to lower the bandwidth by trying 4:2:2 versus 4:4:4. Next try and use a shorter cable if you can and a certified HDR premium cable for the length you use.
I think switching to 4:2:2 and then 10 bit if the 4:2:2 didn't help will lower your bandwidth enough that it will likely eliminate your problem. Try it first. You shouldn't notice any difference in PQ by doing this either.
*sigh*. I was told on this forum that BJC Series 1 was the only premium certified cable for that length. Their website is a bit unclear. It doesn't list the 25' in the first sentence, but below that it states that up to 25' for the Series 1 is Certified. In fact, their web page specifically about the premium certified cables states that the 25' should be plenty fine but they're not going to submit it for certification because reasons.

I'm going to have to contact them I guess - their website is fuzzy about this at best. If it turns out that the cable is the problem then I have no idea what I'm going to do because it's going to be an utter nightmare to try to move things, I'm going to have to rewire my entire basement.

Sources: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/...hdmi-cable.htm
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Series-1 Facts:
  • HDMI certified (to 25 feet "high-speed"; to 45 feet standard);
  • Made with high-purity ETP copper conductors
  • CM rated (higher rating than CL2) for in-wall installation;
  • Unique Patented Bonded Pair Construction;
  • This and Series-FE are the only HDMI cable stock made in USA
  • Click for our "Design Notes" article on this HDMI cable.
  • Gold-plated connectors; Available in black or white jacket
  • Supports all HDMI protocols and standards, such as 3D, 4Kx2K, 1080p, etc.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...hdmi-cable.htm
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If you're curious about Series-1 and 1E cables, our 23.5 AWG version: we expect that these would pass the electrical tests of the Premium HDMI Cable program but we currently do not plan to submit them for testing because we have good reason to suppose that one phase of the testing -- the repeated tight wrapping of the cables around a tube to verify performance after mis-handling -- is likely to break connections in the cable-to-connector joint. The design of the cable is identical to the Series-FE except for scale, and the 23.5 AWG conductors provide significantly lower attenuation, so we do expect Series-1 and 1E to be good for at least 20 and probably 25 feet at the full 18.0 Gbps bandwidth. It's possible that they may function just fine for somewhat longer distances in practice, but it is becoming clear that the kind of headroom we've seen in the past, where the cable is certified high-speed to 25 feet but will run some high-speed video 100 feet or more, is simply not going to be possible under 2.0.
Are you quite sure this is a cabling issue? I can probably temporarily move just the oppo and run some shorter cable briefly I guess, and check that.

Edit: Monoprice sells a 25' Premium Certified Cable for about 1/4 the price of the BJC cable. If it turns out that the BJC cable isn't certified I guess I'll try to return them to Amazon and order new cables and save myself a bunch of money in the process. Or are those cables also garbage despite being listed as certified?

Last edited by shortspecialbus; 03-13-2017 at 05:55 AM.
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post #12722 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 05:52 AM
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Definitely seems to be a cable issue, if you are going to invest in a projector, IMO then its worth investing in a proven cable solution - not an expected one (to quote their marketing materials). Bluejeans makes good cables, but the need for a certified cable for video out has been proven over and over on this thread, even in my case which was a run of 10 feet to a non-4k display.

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post #12723 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Definitely seems to be a cable issue, if you are going to invest in a projector, IMO then its worth investing in a proven cable solution - not an expected one (to quote their marketing materials). Bluejeans makes good cables, but the need for a certified cable for video out has been proven over and over on this thread, even in my case which was a run of 10 feet to a non-4k display.
It's not a projector. As stated, it's a Vizio P75-C1.

BJC says it's certified up to 25 feet. Is that not accurate? Is that some other certification?

Monoprice has a 25' premium certified HDMI. Is that also not accurate? Which other certified cables aren't actually certified? Which cable should I buy? AVS forum already told me to get one garbage cable, apparently.
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post #12724 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by shortspecialbus View Post
It's not a projector. As stated, it's a Vizio P75-C1.

BJC says it's certified up to 25 feet. Is that not accurate? Is that some other certification?

Monoprice has a 25' premium certified HDMI. Is that also not accurate? Which other certified cables aren't actually certified? Which cable should I buy? AVS forum already told me to get one garbage cable, apparently.
BJC says the 25 foot cable is high speed certified, NOT Premium Certified. They only claim Premium Certified status for cables up to 15'.

The Monoprice Premium Certified cables have been getting favorable reviews here and elsewhere. $20 to try their 25 foot Premium Certified cable seems pretty reasonable to me.
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post #12725 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortspecialbus View Post
It's not a projector. As stated, it's a Vizio P75-C1.

BJC says it's certified up to 25 feet. Is that not accurate? Is that some other certification?

Monoprice has a 25' premium certified HDMI. Is that also not accurate? Which other certified cables aren't actually certified? Which cable should I buy? AVS forum already told me to get one garbage cable, apparently.
The ONLY certified cables are those which carry this on the package:


You can visit HDMI.org and get a list.
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post #12726 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:14 AM
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I'm ordering 2 25' Monoprice ones after talking to their customer support.

I'm irked as heck right now that the Vizio thread told me I had to get the BJC ones, that they were the only ones premium certified at 25'. I'm also irked at BJC's marketing materials that make it really unclear by just saying "Certified to 25'". I bought them through Amazon and will try to return them, assuming I can get them back out of my wall.

I suppose I should have checked harder, so it's really on me. Which also irks me, haha.
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post #12727 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortspecialbus View Post
I'm ordering 2 25' Monoprice ones after talking to their customer support.

I'm irked as heck right now that the Vizio thread told me I had to get the BJC ones, that they were the only ones premium certified at 25'. I'm also irked at BJC's marketing materials that make it really unclear by just saying "Certified to 25'". I bought them through Amazon and will try to return them, assuming I can get them back out of my wall.

I suppose I should have checked harder, so it's really on me. Which also irks me, haha.
Unfortunately, the terminology being used around certification can be really confusing if you aren't educated in what to look for. If you don't know better, it probably sounds perfectly reasonable to just purchase a "certified" cable. Unfortunately, what "certified" means has been a moving target over the last several years and there's a big difference between certified for "hi speed" and "Premium Certified". At least now you now that "Premium Certified" and the logo that @rdgrimes included in his post are key to getting a cable that should work properly (naturally there's still the possibility of getting a defective cable...).

FWIW, I don't see anything inaccurate on BJC's website, though they probably could re-word a few things to make their site a bit less confusing.

Let us know your results once you receive the Monoprice cables.
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post #12728 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortspecialbus View Post
I'm ordering 2 25' Monoprice ones after talking to their customer support.

I'm irked as heck right now that the Vizio thread told me I had to get the BJC ones, that they were the only ones premium certified at 25'. I'm also irked at BJC's marketing materials that make it really unclear by just saying "Certified to 25'". I bought them through Amazon and will try to return them, assuming I can get them back out of my wall.

I suppose I should have checked harder, so it's really on me. Which also irks me, haha.
Here's some existing threads in the HDMI forum for review and discussion going forward:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...eep-color.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...hat-works.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...omponents.html
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post #12729 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Unfortunately, the terminology being used around certification can be really confusing if you aren't educated in what to look for. If you don't know better, it probably sounds perfectly reasonable to just purchase a "certified" cable. Unfortunately, what "certified" means has been a moving target over the last several years and there's a big difference between certified for "hi speed" and "Premium Certified". At least now you now that "Premium Certified" and the logo that @rdgrimes included in his post are key to getting a cable that should work properly (naturally there's still the possibility of getting a defective cable...).

FWIW, I don't see anything inaccurate on BJC's website, though they probably could re-word a few things to make their site a bit less confusing.

Let us know your results once you receive the Monoprice cables.
Will do, thanks. For time being I'll try 4:2:2 at 12 bit (4:2:2 10 bit isn't in the HDMI spec) and see if that helps for time being.
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post #12730 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortspecialbus View Post
It's not a projector. As stated, it's a Vizio P75-C1.

BJC says it's certified up to 25 feet. Is that not accurate? Is that some other certification?

Monoprice has a 25' premium certified HDMI. Is that also not accurate? Which other certified cables aren't actually certified? Which cable should I buy? AVS forum already told me to get one garbage cable, apparently.
Sorry I mixed you up with Roman79 who is having a "similar" issue. Don't shoot the messenger, it still your cable and good luck with the Monoprice. A length of 25' seems to be the point where things get interesting.
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post #12731 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:30 AM
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Picture 1 shows your Video settings for the 203 but it doesn't show what the 203 is actually sending, and Picture 3 is showing what your Vizio is displaying. For example picture 2 shows the 203 is outputting 23.976 frames per second but Picture 3 (the Vizio) is saying 60 frames per second so the fact that the Vizio is showing 60 frames per second means it is changing the frame rate.

Based on those pictures I'd say the Vizio is not receiving a 4K HDR signal at 60 Hz, I'd say it's receiving 4K HDR at 23.976 Hz and converting that to 60 Hz.

The fact that your 203 settings show UHD60 for your current resolution does not mean that it will always send a 60 Hz signal, in fact the bottom line of info in Picture 2 shows it's sending 23.976 Hz. The 203 can not convert 24 Hz or 23.976 Hz to 60 Hz. Read the manual on output resolution for details on what each setting does.

At present there is only 1 UHD disc with 60 Hz HDR content and that is Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk. That movie will be output at 60 Hz by the 203 and it will require that your cables are capable of handling the full 18 gbps that the system requires. The output from the 203 with X-Men Apocalypse which you're showing is only requiring 12 to 13 gbps so it doesn't show that your cables are up to whatever will be required. See if you can borrow or rent the Billy Lynn disc and see what happens when you try to play it. If you can have the 203 output it at 60 Hz and it displays correctly, then you really are good but based on the movie you show in the photos and what those photos show, no one can say that you are good for outputting 60 Hz content.
Thanks! I'll try and get it. Is it the Blu-ray or only the uhd blu that is at 60 (Billy Lynn)?

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post #12732 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:34 AM
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Thanks! I'll try and get it. Is it the Blu-ray or only the uhd blu that is at 60 (Billy Lynn)?

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Also, the fact that I forced 4:4:4 from the Oppo, doesn't that require higher gbps data?

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post #12733 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronman79 View Post
Thanks! I'll try and get it. Is it the Blu-ray or only the uhd blu that is at 60 (Billy Lynn)?

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I haven't checked the Blu-ray but you need to use the UHD disc. It's the one that places maximum demands on bandwidth. If it's OK, anything should be OK. If the Blu-ray is OK, you could still have problems with the UHD disc.

Also, the best way to check what the 203 is outputting is to call up the extended Info display. Do a long press on the remote's Info button and instead of getting the info bars at the top and bottom of the screen, you'll get an Info window overlaid over the image. It starts off with info about the disc. You need to scroll down to the very end and you'll then find a section detailing what the 203 is outputting and you'll see details of resolution, colour space (every aspect of colour space), bit depth and audio.
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post #12734 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by shortspecialbus View Post
Will do, thanks. For time being I'll try 4:2:2 at 12 bit (4:2:2 10 bit isn't in the HDMI spec) and see if that helps for time being.
I have a feeling the 4:2:2 12 bit will probably work ok. That is 8.9Gbps and a certified high speed cable is good to 10.2Gbps. You're right about the 4:2:2 10 bit. Meant to say 4:4:4 10bit but I think 4:2:2 12 bit is the better choice.
When you get the certified premium cables from Monoprice you can try the 4:4:4 12 bit again. Let us know how you make out.

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post #12735 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post
I haven't checked the Blu-ray but you need to use the UHD disc. It's the one that places maximum demands on bandwidth. If it's OK, anything should be OK. If the Blu-ray is OK, you could still have problems with the UHD disc.

Also, the best way to check what the 203 is outputting is to call up the extended Info display. Do a long press on the remote's Info button and instead of getting the info bars at the top and bottom of the screen, you'll get an Info window overlaid over the image. It starts off with info about the disc. You need to scroll down to the very end and you'll then find a section detailing what the 203 is outputting and you'll see details of resolution, colour space (every aspect of colour space), bit depth and audio.
Great info. I haven't had time to delve into everything... I've had the Oppo since release, but have kept it packed up with so many other things for the theater reveal!

I thought about other aspects of the disc differences after sending that last... Too bad I don't want to own Billy Lynn, and there's no way around to rent it... I'll find some way to test....

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post #12736 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 07:59 AM
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Ender's Game 4k defective?

I bought Ender's Game in 4K a few weeks ago and finally watched it last night. It froze early in chapter 9 (about 00:57:23) and jumped ahead to about 00:58:30 (from just after Dragon team making it through the gate until the end of Ender's fight with Bonzo). I searched and found that at least one person said that Ender's Game in 4K might be defective. Can anyone substantiate this? I'm going to report it to Oppo in a few minutes, but is there any hope that future firmware might be able to fix it, or should I try to return the disc? If it's defective, was it just one batch and a newer one might play properly, or should I just try to get my money back?


I'm on the most current firmware (UDP20X-38-0222), reset to factory defaults and erased persistent memory after installing and am using certified premium HDMI cables (one from Oppo and one from Monoprice). This was my first real issue since switching to the newest firmware.
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post #12737 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 08:19 AM
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I bought Ender's Game in 4K a few weeks ago and finally watched it last night. It froze early in chapter 9 (about 00:57:23) and jumped ahead to about 00:58:30 (from just after Dragon team making it through the gate until the end of Ender's fight with Bonzo). I searched and found that at least one person said that Ender's Game in 4K might be defective. Can anyone substantiate this? I'm going to report it to Oppo in a few minutes, but is there any hope that future firmware might be able to fix it, or should I try to return the disc? If it's defective, was it just one batch and a newer one might play properly, or should I just try to get my money back?


I'm on the most current firmware (UDP20X-38-0222), reset to factory defaults and erased persistent memory after installing and am using certified premium HDMI cables (one from Oppo and one from Monoprice). This was my first real issue since switching to the newest firmware.
Is it a repeatable error?

I'd try the cleaning described in the FAQ: What do I do if a disc will not play? (People hate to be told that, but sometimes it works).

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post #12738 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 08:27 AM
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Enders 4k has played fine on my 203 on 1229 FW.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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post #12739 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Spidacat View Post
I bought Ender's Game in 4K a few weeks ago and finally watched it last night. It froze early in chapter 9 (about 00:57:23) and jumped ahead to about 00:58:30 (from just after Dragon team making it through the gate until the end of Ender's fight with Bonzo). I searched and found that at least one person said that Ender's Game in 4K might be defective. Can anyone substantiate this? I'm going to report it to Oppo in a few minutes, but is there any hope that future firmware might be able to fix it, or should I try to return the disc? If it's defective, was it just one batch and a newer one might play properly, or should I just try to get my money back?


I'm on the most current firmware (UDP20X-38-0222), reset to factory defaults and erased persistent memory after installing and am using certified premium HDMI cables (one from Oppo and one from Monoprice). This was my first real issue since switching to the newest firmware.
The defect in the 4K UHD release of Ender's Game is an incorrect black level. The Blu-ray is fine, but the 4K disk looks terrible. There's no systemic issue with playback.

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post #12740 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 08:42 AM
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Thanks for the replies. It is repeatable. I tried a bunch of video settings (color space + depth) to see if it made a difference. The time varied by a few seconds, but the same area glitched 6-8 times. After the first one, I did wipe the disc with a microfiber cloth. I've read the disc cleaning part of the FAQ, but I'm still not sure how I feel about submersing a disc under hot water and using soap. Since my search did find a potential issue with the title, I wanted to see if that was the problem first. If no one else thinks the title is defective in general, I'll try the full cleaning procedure.
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post #12741 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dpippel View Post
The defect in the 4K UHD release of Ender's Game is an incorrect black level. The Blu-ray is fine, but the 4K disk looks terrible. There's no systemic issue with playback.

Thanks. I did see the complaint about the black level, but when someone mentioned "defective" I thought maybe there was a bad batch that was being replaced. It's been a while since I've seen the Blu Ray, but I thought the 4k looked fine. I'll have to watch a few scenes on both to see what's wrong with the blacks.
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post #12742 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Spidacat View Post
I bought Ender's Game in 4K a few weeks ago and finally watched it last night. It froze early in chapter 9 (about 00:57:23) and jumped ahead to about 00:58:30 (from just after Dragon team making it through the gate until the end of Ender's fight with Bonzo). I searched and found that at least one person said that Ender's Game in 4K might be defective. Can anyone substantiate this? I'm going to report it to Oppo in a few minutes, but is there any hope that future firmware might be able to fix it, or should I try to return the disc? If it's defective, was it just one batch and a newer one might play properly, or should I just try to get my money back?


I'm on the most current firmware (UDP20X-38-0222), reset to factory defaults and erased persistent memory after installing and am using certified premium HDMI cables (one from Oppo and one from Monoprice). This was my first real issue since switching to the newest firmware.
I haven't had the chance to watch that movie yet but I know the only known issue so far is the black level is way off.

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post #12743 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 09:24 AM
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OPPO UDP-103 Question

Can I ask questions about the 103 model here? Or, do I need to start a new thread?

Thanks
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post #12744 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 09:28 AM
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Well, after upgrading to the latest firmware, I finally had time to try my new UDP-203 with my JVC RS500 projector. No problem transmitting any 4K video signal I have tried from the Oppo to the PJ through the 3 HDMI cables (20 ft) I have installed. Ouf!

I can confirm that out of 4 brand new, 4K UHD discs I have demoed, one of them has caused the player to completely lock up and I had to unplug the power from the Oppo then restart it. The Oppo was completely frozen, power button not working, tray not ejectiing. The second time around, same disc, same chapter, no problem (Lucy disc).

I have only watched a few minutes of some movie (Mad Max, Oblivion, Lucy, Sully), but this has me a bit worried...I have never encountered such a severe "hardware lockup" on any of the players I have owned in the past (including one Oppo blyray player). Mmmhhh...

Last edited by stef2; 03-13-2017 at 09:32 AM.
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post #12745 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueGod View Post
Can I ask questions about the 103 model here? Or, do I need to start a new thread?

Thanks


Here is the 103 Thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...-s-thread.html

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post #12746 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueGod View Post
Can I ask questions about the 103 model here? Or, do I need to start a new thread?

Thanks
Since the link was already provided...let me just say in general, AVS different forums have make and model owner's threads for most products. So when researching or asking questions, please take advantage of the owner's threads.
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post #12747 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel View Post
The defect in the 4K UHD release of Ender's Game is an incorrect black level. The Blu-ray is fine, but the 4K disk looks terrible. There's no systemic issue with playback.
Can confirm. Looks absolutely awful in UHD.

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post #12748 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by **Amused** View Post
Is the 203 capable of outputting 24/192 via optical toslink? I have problems with such files as they won't play on my external DAC (the DAC accepts 24/192 over optical).

Is it down to the optical out on the 203 or the settings?


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Yes, you can get LPCM 2.0 192kHz 24-bit output on both Optical and Coax (the "S/PDIF" outputs).

There's a setting in the 203 called "S/PDIF Output" which lets you limit the max sample rate for Stereo LPCM output on Optical or Coax to protect gear that can't handle the higher rate signals. Make sure you have that set to LPCM 192kHz if you want to send LPCM 2.0 192kHz 24-bit to your DAC. Not that this setting does not force up-sampling. If you play 96kHz content with S/PDIF Output set to 192kHz you will still get 96kHz. If you play it with S/PDIF Output set to 48kHz, however, you will get 48kHz.

Keep in mind that some commercial discs are limited by licensing as to whether their audio can be sent out at all on Optical or Coax, or what you can get if they are allowed to be sent out that way -- basically because there's no Copy Protection on Optical or Coax.
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post #12749 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by **Amused** View Post
The manual doesn't mention the bit depth (24 bits), only the sample rate (192). However, 24/192 flac files don't work over optical.


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Stereo FLAC 24/192 files work for me over Coax, and Optical should work the same way.
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post #12750 of 36591 Old 03-13-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post
Spoiler!
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Originally Posted by Ronman79 View Post
Great info. I haven't had time to delve into everything... I've had the Oppo since release, but have kept it packed up with so many other things for the theater reveal!

I thought about other aspects of the disc differences after sending that last... Too bad I don't want to own Billy Lynn, and there's no way around to rent it... I'll find some way to test....
Forcing 4:4:4, UHD/60Hz for HD Blu-ray will get you very close to the spec limit to test your cables (whatever you have bit depth set to is fine, it will output 8bit edit: I may need to confirm this later, you may need to force 8 bit)
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Last edited by galonzo; 03-13-2017 at 10:41 AM. Reason: added additional information
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