Official OPPO UDP-203 Owner's Thread - Page 876 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26251 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
>>So when you get "the latest," you get "all of 'em." GREAT.

I do wonder if the vast number of owners on here would purchase another 203, based on their experience with all of these expressed issues??
I have no issues, so, yes, in a heartbeat.

However, if I could swing the budget, then a 205.
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post #26252 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 02:47 PM
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B&W Movies: blacks tend to sepia

Dear all,

completely newbie here. I just got this beautiful machine and tested it with various materials. The rest of the equipment is not up to speed, as I am still using a Pana ae700U projector from 2004 (which works pretty well too). I bought the Oppo after my old Oppo DVD player finally died. I wanted to keep up with new materials and a possible upgrade of the projector one day. My Oppo 203 has also the multi-region feature which I need because of my mixed library (US and Europe). And the reviews of the Oppo are top.

The only issue I have so far is related to old black and white movies. The blacks look more like sepia on the projector. I have corrected the colour temperature of the image on the projector and it looks better (not perfect though). However, I didn't have such an issue with my old Oppo. So I am wondering if I should modify some settings on the player too.

Thanks a lot for your advise!

Tony

PS I searched the thread but the the search engine did not bring up any meaningful results.
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post #26253 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Couple more ....

The below 2 shot of the scene from BM vs SM show the difference in saturation and contrast...the Oppo just looks a lot "flatter"
It’s a good thing I kept my Linker in the chain, altho I’m sure Oppo will straighten this out, one way or the other...if I get some time, I may load up Javs curves...

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post #26254 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 02:57 PM
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It’s a good thing I kept my Linker in the chain...if I get some time, I may load up Javs curves...
Definitely do that... I now solely use the V3 4000 nit curve.. This combined with 48fl on screen looks stunning..
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post #26255 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Definitely do that... I now solely use the V3 4000 nit curve.. This combined with 48fl on screen looks stunning..
It will be an interesting comparison as I only have 25 FL (85 nits)

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post #26256 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by noventa98 View Post
Dear all,

completely newbie here. I just got this beautiful machine and tested it with various materials. The rest of the equipment is not up to speed, as I am still using a Pana ae700U projector from 2004 (which works pretty well too). I bought the Oppo after my old Oppo DVD player finally died. I wanted to keep up with new materials and a possible upgrade of the projector one day. My Oppo 203 has also the multi-region feature which I need because of my mixed library (US and Europe). And the reviews of the Oppo are top.

The only issue I have so far is related to old black and white movies. The blacks look more like sepia on the projector. I have corrected the colour temperature of the image on the projector and it looks better (not perfect though). However, I didn't have such an issue with my old Oppo. So I am wondering if I should modify some settings on the player too.

Thanks a lot for your advise!

Tony

PS I searched the thread but the the search engine did not bring up any meaningful results.
This is almost certainly a settings issue in the projector. Are you using the same input into the projector you used with the older player? When playing DVDs before were you sending 480i or 480p into the projector? The projector likely has different calibration settings for each input, and also likely has different behavior when receiving 480i/480p (which is BT.601 color gamut) than when receiving, say, 1080i or 1080p from the new OPPO (which is BT.709 color gamut).

Do you have any other, newer source devices you can use for comparison?

------------------------

In the OPPO, leave all the Picture Adjustment settings in their factory default (0) values. Make all your video adjustments in the projector. (Only use the settings in the OPPO if the projector can not be adjusted to produce the correct image using its own settings.)

If you are sending RGB video format to your older projector (rather than YCbCr) confirm that you have matching settings in the OPPO and in the projector for the flavor of RGB in use. The normal choice for home theater content would be what's called RGB Video Level in the OPPO (meaning "black is 16"). The other choice, called RGB PC Level in the OPPO (meaning "black is 0") should only be used if your display can't be made to work properly with any other style of video feed. In the projector, look for a setting that has to do with "black levels" and which only offers TWO choices. The setting and the two choices in the projector could be called just about anything, as there is no consensus in the industry on this. That's the setting that needs to match. This is a *MANUAL* selection you have to make to match on both sides of the HDMI cable -- not something that gets figures out automatically during the HDHI handshake.

While playing a movie, you can use the Extended Info display to see what's happening. Press and Hold the Info button on the Remote for a few seconds until it comes up. Use Up/Down Arrow to scroll through and see it all. The first section describes the content you are playing. The next section describes what's going out on the Main HDMI output of the player.

Check what you are sending out to the projector for Color Depth. (The choices being 8-bit, 10-bit, or 12-bit.) Your older projector may not correctly handle higher than 8-bit -- which is what your older DVD player likely sent out.
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post #26257 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
>>So when you get "the latest," you get "all of 'em." GREAT.

I do wonder if the vast number of owners on here would purchase another 203, based on their experience with all of these expressed issues??
I would buy another one in a second. It's been the best disc player I've ever had. No more cheap plastic poorly supported junk for me.

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post #26258 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Some of us are hoping the Oppo HDR Tone Mapping can eventually get close to what the Lumagen Pro can do but at a fraction of the price.

Some HDR displays are using the HDR Master Display Luminance value present in the HDR metadata as part of the tone mapping algorithm. This can be a problem with discs that are mastered at 4000 or 10000 nits but never get brighter than a couple of hundred nits. The result can be overly compressed and dim. The Oppo, with what appears to be dynamic tone mapping, could perform better than what the HDR display can do.
It would be great and interesting if someone with a lumagen pro could do the same measurements.
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post #26259 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jetsen View Post
It is most certainly an issue, it is not because someone has no use for it because his display is capable of "full" HDR that a feature that is advertised as being capable of putting out BT2020SDR should not work.
It has to work as it is intended, if you want use it or not is totally up to the user.
I think the jury is still out as to whether or not BT2020 is the output. I believe Pio has even mentioned that his OLED is reporting an incoming BT2020 color space (and I THINK he also uses a Vertex). Let's wait and see what OPPO has to say about all of this.
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post #26260 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Just for interest's sake though...

Some images of the Oppo 203 Tone Mapping Mode 3 600nits vs Javs V3 curve on the UB900..
I know that pictures are never truly indicative of what you actually see on screen, but the PQ in those samples are pretty close either way. I like the OPPO samples better in a couple of those while Javs' look better in the others.
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post #26261 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
FWIW, I have my OLED in the same light controlled dark room as my JVC,
Only real difference for room setting is with the OLED I always have 4 very dim lamps on (15w bulbs).
...as a result I do not run cranked up Vivid modes for HDR playback. My retinas can't take the heat

I have a very conservative user mode setup that basically followed this Youtube:
(4:40 timestamp shows HDR settings that I have used for about a year now)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXwFi3E1K0g

I'll fire up the JVC later this afternoon and give Coco a re-spin.
It will be good to see a JVC comparison. I don’t trust that Lg can be made to show an apples to apples comparison between a HDR mode and a SDR mode. Even leveling out most adjustable parameters I think there are some which won’t show that influence the picture.

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post #26262 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by atabea View Post
I think the jury is still out as to whether or not BT2020 is the output. I believe Pio has even mentioned that his OLED is reporting an incoming BT2020 color space (and I THINK he also uses a Vertex). Let's wait and see what OPPO has to say about all of this.
Yes Vertex is reporting 4K 23.794 SDR BT2020 444 12b 455Mhz 2.2

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Official OPPO UDP-203 Owner's Thread

26268

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post #26264 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
It will be good to see a JVC comparison. I don’t trust that Lg can be made to show an apples to apples comparison between a HDR mode and a SDR mode. Even leveling out most adjustable parameters I think there are some which won’t show that influence the picture.
I'm only using a smartphone camera that can't even capture an HDR image accurately.
You're going to need someone with a pretty expensive DSLR if you want a better comparison.

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post #26265 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:51 PM
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Lightbulb

...and please, let's not lose focus on what kicked off the recent discussion!

jetsen
(an ISF Calibrator) was the one who found the color space anomaly while running Calman calibrations.


For those that missed it, it's not about my OLED or my smartphone screen grab
I was just testing his theory that something may be "off"

Click: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post55782706
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post #26266 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
This is almost certainly a settings issue in the projector. Are you using the same input into the projector you used with the older player? When playing DVDs before were you sending 480i or 480p into the projector? The projector likely has different calibration settings for each input, and also likely has different behavior when receiving 480i/480p (which is BT.601 color gamut) than when receiving, say, 1080i or 1080p from the new OPPO (which is BT.709 color gamut).

Do you have any other, newer source devices you can use for comparison?

------------------------

In the OPPO, leave all the Picture Adjustment settings in their factory default (0) values. Make all your video adjustments in the projector. (Only use the settings in the OPPO if the projector can not be adjusted to produce the correct image using its own settings.)

If you are sending RGB video format to your older projector (rather than YCbCr) confirm that you have matching settings in the OPPO and in the projector for the flavor of RGB in use. The normal choice for home theater content would be what's called RGB Video Level in the OPPO (meaning "black is 16"). The other choice, called RGB PC Level in the OPPO (meaning "black is 0") should only be used if your display can't be made to work properly with any other style of video feed. In the projector, look for a setting that has to do with "black levels" and which only offers TWO choices. The setting and the two choices in the projector could be called just about anything, as there is no consensus in the industry on this. That's the setting that needs to match. This is a *MANUAL* selection you have to make to match on both sides of the HDMI cable -- not something that gets figures out automatically during the HDHI handshake.

While playing a movie, you can use the Extended Info display to see what's happening. Press and Hold the Info button on the Remote for a few seconds until it comes up. Use Up/Down Arrow to scroll through and see it all. The first section describes the content you are playing. The next section describes what's going out on the Main HDMI output of the player.

Check what you are sending out to the projector for Color Depth. (The choices being 8-bit, 10-bit, or 12-bit.) Your older projector may not correctly handle higher than 8-bit -- which is what your older DVD player likely sent out.
--Bob
Thanks you very much indeed Bob! Very good hints for me. I will investigate further and let you know.
Best,
Tony
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post #26267 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
>>So when you get "the latest," you get "all of 'em." GREAT.

I do wonder if the vast number of owners on here would purchase another 203, based on their experience with all of these expressed issues??
I'll chime in as a repeat buyer. Just sold my Oppo 103 for about 2/3 what I paid for it 5 years ago...and knowing the person I sold it to is getting a great player. That thing is built like a tank and never missed a beat all those years. Customer service and build quality are second to none. So I had no hesitations when buying the 203, knowing there's a great chance I'll duplicate the experience I had with the 103. Issues come up, but they'll be solved.
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post #26268 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 04:15 PM
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Official OPPO UDP-203 Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
I know that pictures are never truly indicative of what you actually see on screen, but the PQ in those samples are pretty close either way. I like the OPPO samples better in a couple of those while Javs' look better in the others.


Agreed. In all cases for me except the last one the OPPO looked better. I know the smartphone camera is not the best tool but hilarious how one tries to prove something and it turns out the exact opposite.

I am not putting anyone down here. Just making light of this situation. Javs and Pio both you guys rock.


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post #26269 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
I'll chime in as a repeat buyer. Just sold my Oppo 103 for about 2/3 what I paid for it 5 years ago...and knowing the person I sold it to is getting a great player. That thing is built like a tank and never missed a beat all those years. Customer service and build quality are second to none. So I had no hesitations when buying the 203, knowing there's a great chance I'll duplicate the experience I had with the 103. Issues come up, but they'll be solved.
Absolutely, can’t go wrong with an OPPO purchase. There may be a few bumps in the road but I think most here would agree you can do no better than getting an OPPO.
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post #26270 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by atabea View Post
I think the jury is still out as to whether or not BT2020 is the output. I believe Pio has even mentioned that his OLED is reporting an incoming BT2020 color space (and I THINK he also uses a Vertex). Let's wait and see what OPPO has to say about all of this.
Yes it appears the Oppo when set to hdroff2020 is sending rec709 colors in a 2020 container.
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post #26271 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
I think the jury is still out as to whether or not BT2020 is the output. I believe Pio has even mentioned that his OLED is reporting an incoming BT2020 color space (and I THINK he also uses a Vertex). Let's wait and see what OPPO has to say about all of this.
Yes it appears the Oppo when set to hdroff2020 is sending rec709 colors in a 2020 container.
If that's the case, I hope we don't have to wait another year for this to be fixed. Kinda annoying.
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post #26272 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by atabea View Post
I know that pictures are never truly indicative of what you actually see on screen, but the PQ in those samples are pretty close either way. I like the OPPO samples better in a couple of those while Javs' look better in the others.
Yes they are very close.

Interesting thing though, there is actually a shift in colour saturation on the Oppo vs the curves, as in, its reduced on the Oppo if you really pay attention to it.

The greens in those shots are more deep and saturated on the custom curves than the Oppo.

Also important to note thats the UB900 vs the Oppo too..

It really should be compared Oppo to Oppo.

The Oppo's sharpening was totally different to what the UB900 was doing. A few variables here. But still it looks pretty close.

I can see an apparent and pretty clear gamut reduction on the Oppo shots, they are not more saturated in any of the shots. I do see a smidgen better shadow detail on the Oppo in the Mad Max shot, and other shots Woofer has not shared here such as Ghost in the Shell, and some better cloud rendition on the Oppo, but Woofer since looked at those curves ON the Oppo and not the UB900 and confirmed to me that those cloud issues are gone.
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post #26273 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
I do wonder if the vast number of owners on here would purchase another 203, based on their experience with all of these expressed issues??
Might not be an apples to apples answer as I have had no major issues, but my set up is very simple; just an HDR10 only capable display with an Anthem pre-pro in between. Based on my experiences with the 103 at work, and the 203 in home, I don't know that I'd ever consider another brand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring5 View Post
Unfortunately, Oppo is the best.
Why "unfortunately".....??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
I'll chime in as a repeat buyer. Just sold my Oppo 103 for about 2/3 what I paid for it 5 years ago...and knowing the person I sold it to is getting a great player. That thing is built like a tank and never missed a beat all those years. Customer service and build quality are second to none. So I had no hesitations when buying the 203, knowing there's a great chance I'll duplicate the experience I had with the 103. Issues come up, but they'll be solved.
And that's one of the other reasons I like to recommend Oppo. I'm sure the majority of folks considering a new one don't think about a player in these terms, but Oppo has a resale value on top of everything else. The majority of other players are throw away items, really. Sorry, it's just how I see them. Am I old school for actually liking buttons that are meaningful on the front of the unit??

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post #26274 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
I do wonder if the vast number of owners on here would purchase another 203, based on their experience with all of these expressed issues??
Might not be an apples to apples answer as I have had no major issues, but my set up is very simple; just an HDR10 only capable display with an Anthem pre-pro in between. Based on my experiences with the 103 at work, and the 203 in home, I don't know that I'd ever consider another brand.

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Originally Posted by Sebring5 View Post
Unfortunately, Oppo is the best.
Why "unfortunately".....??

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Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
I'll chime in as a repeat buyer. Just sold my Oppo 103 for about 2/3 what I paid for it 5 years ago...and knowing the person I sold it to is getting a great player. That thing is built like a tank and never missed a beat all those years. Customer service and build quality are second to none. So I had no hesitations when buying the 203, knowing there's a great chance I'll duplicate the experience I had with the 103. Issues come up, but they'll be solved.
And that's one of the other reasons I like to recommend Oppo. I'm sure the majority of folks considering a new one don't think about a player in these terms, but Oppo has a resale value on top of everything else. The majority of other players are throw away items, really. Sorry, it's just how I see them. But wondering, am I old school for actually liking buttons that are meaningful on the front of the unit??

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post #26275 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Yes they are very close.

Interesting thing though, there is actually a shift in colour saturation on the Oppo vs the curves, as in, its reduced on the Oppo if you really pay attention to it.

The greens in those shots are more deep and saturated on the custom curves than the Oppo.

Also important to note thats the UB900 vs the Oppo too..

It really should be compared Oppo to Oppo.

The Oppo's sharpening was totally different to what the UB900 was doing. A few variables here. But still it looks pretty close.

I can see an apparent and pretty clear gamut reduction on the Oppo shots, they are not more saturated in any of the shots. I do see a smidgen better shadow detail on the Oppo in the Mad Max shot, and other shots Woofer has not shared here such as Ghost in the Shell, and some better cloud rendition on the Oppo, but Woofer since looked at those curves ON the Oppo and not the UB900 and confirmed to me that those cloud issues are gone.
Yes, I can definitely see the saturation differences and, as you rightly pointed out, it should be OPPO to OPPO. Perhaps woofer could reshoot those pictures oppo to oppo and repost.
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post #26276 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by atabea View Post
I think the jury is still out as to whether or not BT2020 is the output. I believe Pio has even mentioned that his OLED is reporting an incoming BT2020 color space (and I THINK he also uses a Vertex). Let's wait and see what OPPO has to say about all of this.
Well thats just the problem, look at the pictures I have taken of the info screen from the Sony VW760, it also reports that BT2020 is coming in, but is its definitely not BT2020 that I see on my screen and measure.
I also have a HD fury and a vertex here and when using the strip metadata with BT2020 I have perfect P3 colors where they should be, both visually and measured with caiman.
I will do the same as I did with te pictures you see here but then wit the vertex shipping the HDR and post the as soon as I can.

You can see on the screenshot from caiman where the colors are in the BT2020 color space when the conversion is on and where they are when I send "plain" HDR.
Nothing fancy about what I did, just HDR on, measure the color space, then turn on the SDR BT2020 conversion and measure again.


I would very much like to be proven wrong believe me because for every projector owner that can't benefit from custom curves this function would be a blessing.
There are plenty of people here on the AVS forum that are skilled to make some measurements an join in on this so I hope they do.


For those who don't have test equipment just do the test with putting on a primary color from a sony UHD disc and flip between the HDR mode and SDR/BT2020 and see what happens with the color just takes 2 min.
Or put on a scene from a movie where there is enough color to make sure that there is more then REC709 showing.
Just make sure that the player is not paused on the scene or pattern because the Oppo won't switch if it is paused.
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post #26277 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Couple more ....

The below 2 shot of the scene from BM vs SM show the difference in saturation and contrast...the Oppo just looks a lot "flatter"
I'd say the Oppo looks better on both of those, but particularly on the second set, where the UB900 is massively burning out the highlights which are being fully retained by the Oppo.
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post #26278 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Definitely do that... I now solely use the V3 4000 nit curve.. This combined with 48fl on screen looks stunning..
I'll have to try that one with my 68fl or so that I am getting using my HP2.8/RS600 set up

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post #26279 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 06:07 PM
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Could someone please direct me to the v3 4000 nit curve?

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Chad B calibrated JVC RS600, 112" 2.35 DaLite 2.8 High Power Screen (395 calibrated nits baby!!), 7.5.4 Marantz AV7702,Yamaha RX-A3050, Yamaha RX-Z9, Aerial Acoustics Model 6, Model 5, CC3, Def Tech UIWBP/A, 4-15" Infinite Baffle Sub + 15" Velodyne Sub Near-field, OPPO 203, Panasonic UC420, Geek Pulse DAC, NVidia Shield
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post #26280 of 37537 Old 03-03-2018, 06:09 PM
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Could someone please direct me to the v3 4000 nit curve?

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