Official OPPO UDP-203 Owner's Thread - Page 897 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26881 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I wouldn't say it is better than the custom curve, but it is very close to what I am getting with my custom curve. The custom curve still edges it out, but the gap is much slimmer.

Probably what has changed my opinion was finding the right mode/nits setting for my setup. Once I found that, then the differences were less. That might not make much sense to some, but I trust what my eyes are telling me.

Ultimately, like previously stated, I'll go back to a custom curve once I have improved brightness. But for now, the tone mapping option is a great tool!
Just curious, in your opinion, what % improvement is your custom curve vs the Oppo tone mapping? 5 percent, 10 percent? 30 percent? 50 percent? I may have access to a calibrator next month, just trying to determine how much improvement I could see...Thanks

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post #26882 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by muzza167 View Post
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why the manual says that setting the S/PDIF output to 192k PCM may help to get the best analog audio quality?
Hmmmm I'll have a stab in the dark and say maybe you've got a Classic Records HDAD full resolution disc @ 24/192 you'd like to play??

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post #26883 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 05:53 AM
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[QUOTE=jetsen;55851448][quote=gravi;55850878]


yes, same issue on the JVC.[/QUOTE

I did not watch the entire video you posted, but you are testing with both a Sony and a JVC? I thought you had done a test with the JVC and saw the correct color space, see your post linked here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post55798786
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post #26884 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Drake View Post
Hmmmm I'll have a stab in the dark and say maybe you've got a Classic Records HDAD full resolution disc @ 24/192 you'd like to play??
I don't know if I'm understanding this wrong, but I thought S/PDIF and analog audio were totally seperate. Therefore, if I listened to 192khz material such as that through the analog output, it wouldn't matter what I had S/PDIF set to (it could even not exist on the unit) and it would still play at it's best quality. I did read a reply that suggested setting it to 192khz tells the dac to take full advantage of the bandwidth, I just wasn't sure why the dac needed to rely on S/PDIF at all.
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post #26885 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jetsen View Post
Ok everyone, like promised a few days ago I have made a video about the problems that I have with the tone mapping function HDR to SDR/BT2020 not displaying the correct BT2020 colors.

I have made a setup where I go trough the entire process of switching from HDR/BT2020 to SDR/BT2020 you can see everything on the screen as I go in the menu's and cheque every setting in the Oppo and in the Sony.
I also did measure the color gamut with Calman in the P3 color space both in HDR/BT2020 and in SDR/BT2020, these results you can also see on the video as I go along.

Before you dive into the video, a very important note, as I watch it here on mij computer screen the difference is a lot harder to see then bij looking at it on the projected image, it is a lot more present when you watch it on the actual screen itself.
That is also why it is almost impossible to see this when comparing pictures taken with an I phone or the likes, the high saturated BT2020 colors are not captured well bij a standard REC 709 camera.
Please watch the split screen we made of two separate takes, first one HDR/BT2020 the other one SDR BT2020, then we combined them in a split screen to show you the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YB8...ature=youtu.be

The most important thing is the split screen of both HDR/BT2020 and SDR/BT2020 while displaying primary red on the Sony, for this of you who don't want to watch the entire video the split screen is on 15 min37 sec into the video.
We also made a split screen of actual footage from a movie that we again displayed in HDR/BT2020 and SDR/BT2020, that is on 20 min 59 sec.

You would do me a big favor by watching this, it is a bit long but I wanted to make sure you see what I do and what the results are.
I am hoping to hear from all of you, and believe it or not I hope I did make a mistake and everything works as it should, then I wil openly apologize to everyone.

So here we go, have fun watching
Hi Jetsen, just wondering if you have contacted OPPO about this?
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post #26886 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rsi77 View Post
Cool. Just to confirm, you plug the Shield into the HDMI input of the 203 and send the main output to your TV?

Thanks.
I have the Shield going into an HDMI switch attached to the 203 HDMI input so I can choose between the Shield and a PC.

I also have had the Shield directly connected to the 203 HDMI input.

UHD HDR and DD+ from both Amazon and Vudu work fine going through the Oppo in either configuration. Haven’t checked with other apps.

From the Oppo, I have one HDMI going direct to the TV so I can get Dolby Vision from my blu-rays. The other HDMI goes to an Atmos soundbar.

I’ve run just a single HDMI to the soundbar, then from the soundbar to the TV. With that arrangement I don’t get Dolby Vision, although the rest is fine for the Shield.

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post #26887 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Buddylee123 View Post
Hi Jetsen, just wondering if you have contacted OPPO about this?
Yes, today I have both contacted Oppo UK and Oppo US, I have send them the video and some explanation about what I see and don't see ;-)
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post #26888 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 08:17 AM
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[quote=gravi;55851974][QUOTE=jetsen;55851448]
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Originally Posted by gravi View Post


yes, same issue on the JVC.[/QUOTE

I did not watch the entire video you posted, but you are testing with both a Sony and a JVC? I thought you had done a test with the JVC and saw the correct color space, see your post linked here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post55798786
Like I said a few post earlier, I made a mistake there because I was doing 100 things at one time I forgot 1 setting on the JVC, so to be clear on the JVC I have exact the same results as on the Sony.

Now because of all this something I also want to compare is the strip metadata from the HD fury, I did not use this before but I get a funny feeling that this will give the same results.
I know a lot of people use this but I can't remember seeing a post where someone actually did measure what is being displayed on screen, let alone compare it with actual HDR/BT2020 on two projectors side by side.
Like I mentioned in the video, depending on the content it is sometimes very hard to see the difference, and especially if you can't compare without seeing the two colors next to each other.

I can do a test here with two JVC projectors side by side, one with actual HDR/BT2020 and the other with strip metadata or Oppo tone mapping.
I am beginning to think that the problem is not actually with the Oppo tone mapping itself, I am thinking that something in the communication between the player and projector is causing the projector to not display the actual BT2020.

Again, I am open to any suggestions that might prove the opposite but till now I have not seen anything that can show me that someone is actually getting the SDR/BT2020 on his projector.
I would be most happy if I can see someone that has gotten this to work, I can make mistakes and especially with these things it can happen before you know it.
That is the reason why I made the video so you can see what is going on, what settings I use and what the results are.
Like also mentioned, taking pictures is not a good way to prove this as I have done it and it is not possible to see, unless someone has a very good camera that can capture it.
The video camera I used to make the video is a pro broadcast camera (but a 1080P REC709) and even there what you see is a lot less then what I actually see on screen.
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post #26889 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jong1 View Post
Apple TV 4K is the state of the art video streamer at the moment IMO. Can be set to match both the frame rate and dynamic range of the source and supports both HDR10 and Dolby Vision. It's also close to rock solid. The Amazon app has an annoying bug with it's audio right now (many shows for seemingly no good reason use 2.0 audio, when 5.1 is available) but, that aside, it's close to perfect.

Note: You will not get DV via the Oppo's HDMI Input. That is currently limited to SDR and HDR10 only and it is not known if it is possible to fix it via firmware.
I think the Amazon app audio issue depends on the components involved because some people are saying they get DD+ 5.1 and others such as myself get only 2.0 and the same title. I think it may be an issue with the Denon AVRs but could also be the combination of Denon and Vizio for me? No one knows for sure and I dredd calling Amazon because they will be clueless about the issue.

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post #26890 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 08:36 AM
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Yeah, I don't understand this at all!

I seem to get consistent results on any given show, not random and I seem to get more 5.1 audio than some. No doubt, though, even through a Yamaha, some shows, like Mrs Maisel, are 2.0 when they shouldn't be.

It's also interesting that almost everything was 2.0 for me at the start, then, like other reports, most shows were fixed without either an Apple or Amazon update, suggesting either a change to metadata served from Amazon's servers or that part of the decision is made on those servers. Maybe the rest can be fixed the same way?

It's an odd issue though, for sure!

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post #26891 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 08:36 AM
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I did some more testing on "Source Direct" vs "UHD Custom" on my B6 and the Oppo UDP203. I have switched back to letting the Oppo do the upscaling. The image looks more "organic" if the Oppo is doing the upscaling.
The LG B6 is a bit sharper, but it looks a bit over sharpened and artificial as well. Colours also seem a little more thick and rich when the Oppo is doing the upscaling.
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post #26892 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsen View Post
Ok everyone, like promised a few days ago I have made a video about the problems that I have with the tone mapping function HDR to SDR/BT2020 not displaying the correct BT2020 colors.

I have made a setup where I go trough the entire process of switching from HDR/BT2020 to SDR/BT2020 you can see everything on the screen as I go in the menu's and cheque every setting in the Oppo and in the Sony.
I also did measure the color gamut with Calman in the P3 color space both in HDR/BT2020 and in SDR/BT2020, these results you can also see on the video as I go along.

Before you dive into the video, a very important note, as I watch it here on mij computer screen the difference is a lot harder to see then bij looking at it on the projected image, it is a lot more present when you watch it on the actual screen itself.
That is also why it is almost impossible to see this when comparing pictures taken with an I phone or the likes, the high saturated BT2020 colors are not captured well bij a standard REC 709 camera.
Please watch the split screen we made of two separate takes, first one HDR/BT2020 the other one SDR BT2020, then we combined them in a split screen to show you the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YB8...ature=youtu.be

The most important thing is the split screen of both HDR/BT2020 and SDR/BT2020 while displaying primary red on the Sony, for this of you who don't want to watch the entire video the split screen is on 15 min37 sec into the video.
We also made a split screen of actual footage from a movie that we again displayed in HDR/BT2020 and SDR/BT2020, that is on 20 min 59 sec.

You would do me a big favor by watching this, it is a bit long but I wanted to make sure you see what I do and what the results are.
I am hoping to hear from all of you, and believe it or not I hope I did make a mistake and everything works as it should, then I wil openly apologize to everyone.

So here we go, have fun watching
I think the conversion from hdr to sdr even though its preserving bt2020 can never 100% emulate a real HDR dynamic range. So what you are seeing with desaturated colors in sdr bt2020 is correct and rightfully so. I believe tone mapping cannot 100% one for one be identical to hdr. There wil be some slight loss which is what you have measured.

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post #26893 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 08:53 AM
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^ That could be avoided by measuring color patches which are well within the luminance range SDR can handle, such as 50 nits.
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post #26894 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 08:59 AM
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[quote=jetsen;55852794][quote=gravi;55851974]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsen View Post

Like I said a few post earlier, I made a mistake there because I was doing 100 things at one time I forgot 1 setting on the JVC, so to be clear on the JVC I have exact the same results as on the Sony.

Now because of all this something I also want to compare is the strip metadata from the HD fury, I did not use this before but I get a funny feeling that this will give the same results.
I know a lot of people use this but I can't remember seeing a post where someone actually did measure what is being displayed on screen, let alone compare it with actual HDR/BT2020 on two projectors side by side.
Like I mentioned in the video, depending on the content it is sometimes very hard to see the difference, and especially if you can't compare without seeing the two colors next to each other.

I can do a test here with two JVC projectors side by side, one with actual HDR/BT2020 and the other with strip metadata or Oppo tone mapping.
I am beginning to think that the problem is not actually with the Oppo tone mapping itself, I am thinking that something in the communication between the player and projector is causing the projector to not display the actual BT2020.

Again, I am open to any suggestions that might prove the opposite but till now I have not seen anything that can show me that someone is actually getting the SDR/BT2020 on his projector.
I would be most happy if I can see someone that has gotten this to work, I can make mistakes and especially with these things it can happen before you know it.
That is the reason why I made the video so you can see what is going on, what settings I use and what the results are.
Like also mentioned, taking pictures is not a good way to prove this as I have done it and it is not possible to see, unless someone has a very good camera that can capture it.
The video camera I used to make the video is a pro broadcast camera (but a 1080P REC709) and even there what you see is a lot less then what I actually see on screen.
Good point about comparing stripped metadata also but this brings up a couple of interesting observations:

- Long before Oppo introduced tone mapping feature, and before people started using custom curves, the holy grail for HDR with projectors was getting SDR/2020 instead, using HDfury and Panasonic player. If you go back in time on this forum there are countless discussions on that. If the end result was not truly BT2020, then I guess all that was an exercise in futility.

- Which brings up a bigger point. If expanded color gamut/BT2020 is something that is not visibly obvious and requires careful A/B comparison to observe, then all this discussion is moot to a certain extent.

I personally find the Oppo tone mapping to be rich in colors, once I properly adjusted the settings. Of course I have not done a split screen comparison with direct HDR. So even if it is proven that there is no such thing as SDR BT2020, I guess it is mostly a technicality for most people. But interesting technical point, and I hope Oppo engineers can simulate the results.
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post #26895 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 09:16 AM
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Question What's the story on the skipping disks on the Oppo 203? (want to pull the trigger)

So I've been slugging through the official which UDP player to buy thread. Seeing the 203 love (and hate) I came here... to see all this talk about disks like WW and Rogue One not playing with the latest firmware. People posting bunches of settings and getting recommendations for tweaks to make to see if disks will play and/or stop skipping.

So it has me a bit freaked out. I just want a device to feed 4k disks to my Anthem 720 which goes to my JVC 520. A great picture would be nice, but playing all the disks is even more important.

Is this user error? Is this just hacked units? Is there anyone with an extensive library who will give me some good news, like the Oppo 203 will just work for playing disks? Is there somewhere particular to buy so I can freely return bugged units?

Thanks a bunch, in advance. I have a UHD Dunkirk disk dying to get played for the wife.
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post #26896 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 09:21 AM
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I had no problem playing either of those on the newest firmware. I have also never had any skips. I had a couple brief freezes, but that was on extremely old firmware.

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post #26897 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 09:25 AM
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My newer unit had been reliable until I watched Interstellar UHD two weeks ago. Pause, skip forward of like 20 seconds, and then on it went. Disc was clean, and had no marks.

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post #26898 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gettingold View Post
So I've been slugging through the official which UDP player to buy thread. Seeing the 203 love (and hate) I came here... to see all this talk about disks like WW and Rogue One not playing with the latest firmware. People posting bunches of settings and getting recommendations for tweaks to make to see if disks will play and/or stop skipping.

So it has me a bit freaked out. I just want a device to feed 4k disks to my Anthem 720 which goes to my JVC 520. A great picture would be nice, but playing all the disks is even more important.

Is this user error? Is this just hacked units? Is there anyone with an extensive library who will give me some good news, like the Oppo 203 will just work for playing disks? Is there somewhere particular to buy so I can freely return bugged units?

Thanks a bunch, in advance. I have a UHD Dunkirk disk dying to get played for the wife.
I have no issues with my 203 into an Anthem AVM60 to an HDR, but not DV capable Sony TV. No disk problems at all. Just watched Dunkirk last weekend, flawlessly. I don't tend to tweak things - the Oppo is smarter than me, so I just pretty much run settings out of the box. I might not be getting the most out of it this way, but I'm very satisfied with what I'm seeing. Perfect player? No. Show me one that is in this day and age of the ever changing HDR and HDMI specs.....

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post #26899 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 09:26 AM
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[quote=jetsen;55852794][quote=gravi;55851974]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsen View Post

Like I said a few post earlier, I made a mistake there because I was doing 100 things at one time I forgot 1 setting on the JVC, so to be clear on the JVC I have exact the same results as on the Sony.

Now because of all this something I also want to compare is the strip metadata from the HD fury, I did not use this before but I get a funny feeling that this will give the same results.
I know a lot of people use this but I can't remember seeing a post where someone actually did measure what is being displayed on screen, let alone compare it with actual HDR/BT2020 on two projectors side by side.
Like I mentioned in the video, depending on the content it is sometimes very hard to see the difference, and especially if you can't compare without seeing the two colors next to each other.

I can do a test here with two JVC projectors side by side, one with actual HDR/BT2020 and the other with strip metadata or Oppo tone mapping.
I am beginning to think that the problem is not actually with the Oppo tone mapping itself, I am thinking that something in the communication between the player and projector is causing the projector to not display the actual BT2020.

Again, I am open to any suggestions that might prove the opposite but till now I have not seen anything that can show me that someone is actually getting the SDR/BT2020 on his projector.
I would be most happy if I can see someone that has gotten this to work, I can make mistakes and especially with these things it can happen before you know it.
That is the reason why I made the video so you can see what is going on, what settings I use and what the results are.
Like also mentioned, taking pictures is not a good way to prove this as I have done it and it is not possible to see, unless someone has a very good camera that can capture it.
The video camera I used to make the video is a pro broadcast camera (but a 1080P REC709) and even there what you see is a lot less then what I actually see on screen.
Thanks for taking the time to investigate this and post your findings.

I've been recently re-thinking all my efforts (and equipment purchases, experiments, troubleshooting time, forum time, bulb time, etc...) to get HDR-->SDR / bt2020 video to my JVC RS500.

Is it really worth it all? Apparently, it is so difficult to tell if the HDR->SDR bt2020 conversion is actually bt2020 that experiments and cameras are warranted to see if it is actually coming through as expected.

Maybe an interesting test / experiment - with video or photos as you've done - would be to just let a 4K movie disc play without any HDR, as r.709, into the PJ, and compare that to the results using the HDR-->SDR bt2020 output of same. Look for the notable increase in image quality there, and also note where the "old" way of doing it - no HDR at all - might actually look better.

It seems to me that HDR possibly came about in part because all of a sudden many displays could be much brighter than they ever were before (LCD sets, anyway, and I guess OLED to some extent also) and HDR was a great concept to utilize this newfound dynamic range (at least at the bright end).

Most PJs IMO though don't have even close to the brightness that gave HDR its start, and the "Old" SDR / r.709 standard worked pretty well for older / dimmer displays. Most PJs are set in dark rooms as well, and the eye-searing nit levels of those LCDs would likely be too much in that case, yet the blacks would still be sub standard (not withstanding the better local dimming and OLEDs etc...).

I'm all for "better color", if the bt2020 space is really delivering that much of an improvement on its own, with the HDR being converted back down to SDR (with the likely artifacts that must involve), but I'm wondering if we are really getting this palpable improvement onto the screen, after jumping through all the hoops required to make all this work.

I like the idea of having flexibility, and the 203 certainly allows for that, and It's pretty cool that you can use it's VP on an HDMI input (for streaming, especially).

So I'm a fan of being able to do things a number of ways, but I'm circling back around and considering re-thinking just playing discs / streams with the standards they were mastered for in place, using the standard settings available on the player or PJ (ie turning HDR "Off" if you want SDR, and not worrying about the color space etc... Settings I guess any 4K disc player or streamer likely has already.)

I'm sure it's likely that the disc player, outputting 4K as SDR is likely already doing something "non standard", and maybe with Vudu HDR streams too, played back on a Roku or Shield into a non HDR enabled display.

I just don't know - but maybe screen shots of actual Movie material displayed on a PJ showing the benefits of doing the HDR-->SDR bt2020 thing -vs- just leaving HDR "Off" would be useful?

Just my .02 anyway.

Last edited by Iamjcl; 03-14-2018 at 09:30 AM.
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post #26900 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Just curious, in your opinion, what % improvement is your custom curve vs the Oppo tone mapping? 5 percent, 10 percent? 30 percent? 50 percent? I may have access to a calibrator next month, just trying to determine how much improvement I could see...Thanks
That is a good question and I would think I could safely say the custom curve is still 15-20% better in detail at the most.

I am fortunate enough to be able to use @chadb to do all my calibrations. He was able to maximize every little bit of brightness out of my JVC/115" Seymour XD screen he could. That is why I want to get him back out as soon as I have more brightness.

I'd say as long as the calibrator knows how to do these custom curves, it would be worth it. Especially if you have 70 or more Nits. I would think you would be very pleased with the end result.
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post #26901 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jong1 View Post
Apple TV 4K is the state of the art video streamer at the moment IMO. Can be set to match both the frame rate and dynamic range of the source and supports both HDR10 and Dolby Vision. It's also close to rock solid. The Amazon app has an annoying bug with it's audio right now (many shows for seemingly no good reason use 2.0 audio, when 5.1 is available) but, that aside, it's close to perfect.

Note: You will not get DV via the Oppo's HDMI Input. That is currently limited to SDR and HDR10 only and it is not known if it is possible to fix it via firmware.
No Atmos, last I checked, so I'm not sure state of the art is the best term (unless I'm wrong here), but if it is stable with the auto resolution / frame rate switching (and doesn't stutter occasionally at 24p like everything I've tried except the Shield) then they have done something right on the video end for sure.

And if I understand correctly (and I hope I do), apple has now updated the FW so it isn't applying their own flavor of HDR to any and everything it plays back? I hope so - I know they tend to dictate what their customers want / need, but wow - that was something.

I assume that with the latest FW you can specify to play anything in its native format of resolution, framerate, and HDR/SDR? That's nice if so.

You are feeding ATV 4K HDR into the 203 without issue?
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post #26902 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 10:14 AM
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[quote=jetsen;55852794][quote=gravi;55851974]
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Originally Posted by jetsen View Post

Like I said a few post earlier, I made a mistake there because I was doing 100 things at one time I forgot 1 setting on the JVC, so to be clear on the JVC I have exact the same results as on the Sony.

Now because of all this something I also want to compare is the strip metadata from the HD fury, I did not use this before but I get a funny feeling that this will give the same results.
I know a lot of people use this but I can't remember seeing a post where someone actually did measure what is being displayed on screen, let alone compare it with actual HDR/BT2020 on two projectors side by side.
Like I mentioned in the video, depending on the content it is sometimes very hard to see the difference, and especially if you can't compare without seeing the two colors next to each other.

I can do a test here with two JVC projectors side by side, one with actual HDR/BT2020 and the other with strip metadata or Oppo tone mapping.
I am beginning to think that the problem is not actually with the Oppo tone mapping itself, I am thinking that something in the communication between the player and projector is causing the projector to not display the actual BT2020.

Again, I am open to any suggestions that might prove the opposite but till now I have not seen anything that can show me that someone is actually getting the SDR/BT2020 on his projector.
I would be most happy if I can see someone that has gotten this to work, I can make mistakes and especially with these things it can happen before you know it.
That is the reason why I made the video so you can see what is going on, what settings I use and what the results are.
Like also mentioned, taking pictures is not a good way to prove this as I have done it and it is not possible to see, unless someone has a very good camera that can capture it.
The video camera I used to make the video is a pro broadcast camera (but a 1080P REC709) and even there what you see is a lot less then what I actually see on screen.
I think we are missing an important point here.

I have access to a 285ES and Oppo via a neighbor. He was nice enough to allow me to play around with it a bit last night since I am interested in buying a similar setup. I told him about this issue and we did some testing.

We can only go by eye since we don't have a meter. Using a UHD disc played in the Oppo the colors look noticeably unsaturated when using the Oppo BT2020 tone mapping but look fine when sending default HDR BT2020 to the projector. What we saw was very similar to your video and we used the same settings.

He has a older Sony UHD player that he was using before the Oppo. It has streaming apps so he has it hooked up to the Oppo's input. Through pretty much random chance we determined that a HDR signal from IT works perfectly fine with the BT2020 SDR tone mapping. Meaning the colors look correct.

So it would appear that the Oppo handles a signal from its INPUT correctly but NOT disc media played internally. THAT appears to be the bug. Can you test for that?
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post #26903 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcl View Post
No Atmos, last I checked, so I'm not sure state of the art is the best term (unless I'm wrong here), but if it is stable with the auto resolution / frame rate switching (and doesn't stutter occasionally at 24p like everything I've tried except the Shield) then they have done something right on the video end for sure.

And if I understand correctly (and I hope I do), apple has now updated the FW so it isn't applying their own flavor of HDR to any and everything it plays back? I hope so - I know they tend to dictate what their customers want / need, but wow - that was something.

I assume that with the latest FW you can specify to play anything in its native format of resolution, framerate, and HDR/SDR? That's nice if so.
Atmos is a good point that I wasn't thinking about at the time. But, really when I said that I meant best currently available, by some margin and I think I'd stand by that.

When there is something that combines the ATVs video capabilities AND Atmos THAT will be the new State of the Art, for sure . As Apple have said Atmos is in their plans (although it may not be until TvOS 12+ and might, just possibly, need a new generation of hardware) it could still be the ATV.

And, to answer your question, yes, now, Apple will serve video at it's native refresh rate and dynamic range - SDR, HDR10 or DV. But you do still have to pick a fixed resolution.

That should probably be it now for ATV/streamer talk in this thread, though, I guess!

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post #26904 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 11:45 AM
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I think the conversion from hdr to sdr even though its preserving bt2020 can never 100% emulate a real HDR dynamic range. So what you are seeing with desaturated colors in sdr bt2020 is correct and rightfully so. I believe tone mapping cannot 100% one for one be identical to hdr. There wil be some slight loss which is what you have measured.

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I am sorry but I don't agree with you there, first I did not measure a "slight loss", the measurement gave me almost REC709 colors which is a serious decrease in saturation.
We are not talking about the actual dynamic range here, of course that wil be gone that is logical as we map it to SDR.
The actual Dynamic range is the difference in the highest an lowest light levels and should be of no influence on the color space.

What Bob said is exactly correct and that is why, on the Sony UHD discs, the BT2020 RGB color patches are at 100 nits level. So when measuring these with the tone mapping function they should measure perfect at the right coordinates and they don't.

Quote:
That could be avoided by measuring color patches which are well within the luminance range SDR can handle, such as 50 nits.
—Bob
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post #26905 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by LochnessMobster View Post

So it would appear that the Oppo handles a signal from its INPUT correctly but NOT disc media played internally. THAT appears to be the bug. Can you test for that?
No problems here with BT.2020/SDR on my Epson LS10k. Either by disc or HDMI IN. Saturations are fine and calibration is still spot on.
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He has a older Sony UHD player that he was using before the Oppo. It has streaming apps so he has it hooked up to the Oppo's input. Through pretty much random chance we determined that a HDR signal from IT works perfectly fine with the BT2020 SDR tone mapping. Meaning the colors look correct.

So it would appear that the Oppo handles a signal from its INPUT correctly but NOT disc media played internally. THAT appears to be the bug. Can you test for that?
I have done the test with a pattern generator a few days ago and described it in some of my earlier posts and came to the same conclusion, the function worked like it should with the pattern generator on the external input.
You say an "older" Sony uhd player, which one would that be? because Sony only has 2 models the X800 and the X1000 and those are pretty recent ones.
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post #26907 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 12:42 PM
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...Is there anyone with an extensive library who will give me some good news, like the Oppo 203 will just work for playing disks? ... I have a UHD Dunkirk disk dying to get played for the wife.
>>Here's<< my running list of error-free, played from beginning to end, UHD disks since Dec. 2016 (in the spoiler); currently at 73 titles, 75 disks (there are three disks in Planet Earth II), including Dunkirk, as well as Thor: Ragnarok, Three Billboards, BR2049, disk one of Westworld, Season 1, to name a few more recently added titles.
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I have done the test with a pattern generator a few days ago and described it in some of my earlier posts and came to the same conclusion, the function worked like it should with the pattern generator on the external input.
You say an "older" Sony uhd player, which one would that be? because Sony only has 2 models the X800 and the X1000 and those are pretty recent ones.
Sorry. I meant 'older' as in 'older than his Oppo'. It was his original player before purchasing the Oppo. It's an X800.

It seems you are seeing the same thing with your pattern generator as we did with the x800. Which seems to put the ball into Oppo's court. The Oppo seems to be applying the tone mapping to external devices one way and to 'interior' playback in another. I don't see how it's possible to come to another conclusion. Unfortunately I don't have a meter to test with but I assume you've measured your pattern generator and it's fine?
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Is the oppo region locked? Wondering if I import the last Jedi 3d Blu Ray from Amazon UK will the oppo play it?

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post #26910 of 36589 Old 03-14-2018, 01:56 PM
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Is the oppo region locked? Wondering if I import the last Jedi 3d Blu Ray from Amazon UK will the oppo play it?

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