Official OPPO UDP-203 Owner's Thread - Page 981 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29401 of 37242 Old 05-23-2018, 04:07 PM
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Hi everyone!

Still trying to dial in my new gear. Very happy with the monitor over the last 60 days or so. I know its not as good and the LG OLED but I wanted the real estate for widescreen movies and it’s been stellar. Any advice on color settings with the new OPPO paired up the the Sony? I am running HDMI through my AVR. I was told to use the below settings and let the TV process up to 4:4:4 and 12 Bit which is within its capability. However, I have no idea if this is happening. The OPPO just shows the output info and the TV only shows the resolution.

Also, regarding up-conversion for HD Blu-ray discs; I know I can use the source direct option for HD output. However, my I can't tell if my monitor is up converting.

(Current) Color Space: YCbCr 4:2:2
(Current) Color Depth to 10 Bit

Thanks in advance!

Gear:
Sony XBR-75X940E
Denon AVR-4300H
OPPO UDP-203
Klipsch RP
MonoPrice (Certified Premium) HDMI

Last edited by Politicking; 05-23-2018 at 04:29 PM.
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post #29402 of 37242 Old 05-23-2018, 05:19 PM
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Still don’t understand how Apple was able to resolve and offer a fix so fast.
You could ask in the Apple TV thread.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #29403 of 37242 Old 05-23-2018, 05:33 PM
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Ok then I will change that previous question. Where is the damn tone mapping update?

Only thing worse than hearing bad news is hearing no news on something they publicly said they would work on.


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Oppo has been working on the Sony DV update and the tone mapping issue. Whatever they do with tone mapping has to work for DV as well as HDR10 and there are now 2 different DV processing chains.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the work on tone mapping is being done on a base firmware version that includes the fix for Sony DV displays. If I'm right on that, then that means that any tone mapping beta which could currently be issued will include the Sony DV fix and they can't release anything with that until Dolby gives then the OK on the Sony DV update.

Sony created the DV mess so blame them for the delays in the tone mapping fix. If they had run with the standard DV implementation instead of trying to get all the player manufacturers to do their processing for them, we wouldn't be waiting on a Sony DV update and we may well have already seen the tone mapping update in some form.

Sony have proven repeatedly over the years that they don't care about their customers and that they're quite happy to do things which result in making their customers, and others, unhappy. They're running true to form here and everyone including people who don't have Sony displays are paying the price. In my view there's no reason to blame Oppo for delays on either the Sony DV fix or tone mapping improvements. I think Sony is the cause of both problems.
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post #29404 of 37242 Old 05-23-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Politicking View Post
Hi everyone!

Still trying to dial in my new gear. Very happy with the monitor over the last 60 days or so. I know its not as good and the LG OLED but I wanted the real estate for widescreen movies and it’s been stellar. Any advice on color settings with the new OPPO paired up the the Sony? I am running HDMI through my AVR. I was told to use the below settings and let the TV process up to 4:4:4 and 12 Bit which is within its capability. However, I have no idea if this is happening. The OPPO just shows the output info and the TV only shows the resolution.

Also, regarding up-conversion for HD Blu-ray discs; I know I can use the source direct option for HD output. However, my I can't tell if my monitor is up converting.

(Current) Color Space: YCbCr 4:2:2
(Current) Color Depth to 10 Bit

Thanks in advance!

Gear:
Sony XBR-75X940E
Denon AVR-4300H
OPPO UDP-203
Klipsch RP
MonoPrice (Certified Premium) HDMI
We have very similar setups(Sony X930E/Denon X4300H/Monoprice CP cables) and I use auto for the chroma settings and 4K 24HZ for my passthrough resolution. Source direct would mean the TV sets upscaler would be doing the work for any content less than 4K. I've gone back and forth between the 2 and I can't tell any major differences so I let the OPPO do it but with the X1 Extreme chip in the Sony either way is not wrong. Listening to my first ever SACD disc right this moment through the OPPO and DAMN......!
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post #29405 of 37242 Old 05-23-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post
Oppo has been working on the Sony DV update and the tone mapping issue. Whatever they do with tone mapping has to work for DV as well as HDR10 and there are now 2 different DV processing chains.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the work on tone mapping is being done on a base firmware version that includes the fix for Sony DV displays. If I'm right on that, then that means that any tone mapping beta which could currently be issued will include the Sony DV fix and they can't release anything with that until Dolby gives then the OK on the Sony DV update.

Sony created the DV mess so blame them for the delays in the tone mapping fix. If they had run with the standard DV implementation instead of trying to get all the player manufacturers to do their processing for them, we wouldn't be waiting on a Sony DV update and we may well have already seen the tone mapping update in some form.

Sony have proven repeatedly over the years that they don't care about their customers and that they're quite happy to do things which result in making their customers, and others, unhappy. They're running true to form here and everyone including people who don't have Sony displays are paying the price. In my view there's no reason to blame Oppo for delays on either the Sony DV fix or tone mapping improvements. I think Sony is the cause of both problems.
Whoever is to blame doesn’t much matter to me anymore. Nor does the complex relationships between these entities or defending them. I just want what I spent my hard earned cash on to work as I was expecting how they were spec’d. My purchasing decisions were based on this. I’ve already waited countless months...so far 2 of my three key components have met the promise and they coicinentally are Sony...Z9D and my Receiver STR-ZA5000ES so I will continue to hang in there as I currently have no choice until next time I decide to upgrade.
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post #29406 of 37242 Old 05-23-2018, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kinglm View Post
Whoever is to blame doesn’t much matter to me anymore. Nor does the complex relationships between these entities or defending them. I just want what I spent my hard earned cash on to work as I was expecting how they were spec’d. My purchasing decisions were based on this. I’ve already waited countless months...so far 2 of my three key components have met the promise and they coicinentally are Sony...Z9D and my Receiver STR-ZA5000ES so I will continue to hang in there as I currently have no choice until next time I decide to upgrade.
It's kind of funny how you used the word "spec'd" as the Oppo IS handling Dolby Vision according to the spec's Dolby told them it needed to meet when Dolby initially certified the Oppo. Dolby later moved the goal posts to make Sony happy and we're in the situation we're in now. The good news is that it will be coming; people just need to learn how to be patient.
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post #29407 of 37242 Old 05-23-2018, 06:12 PM
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I’m patient but can also express how disappointing the long wait for it to settle out is. I work in IT and software development and also know how tricky it is to quote delivery dates for projects. That said communication to your customers/product owners is also important to keep them customers. And lack of communication and clear status and a timeline other than it’s coming is why I/we chime in...
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post #29408 of 37242 Old 05-23-2018, 09:12 PM
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Watching The Matrix UHD. In the scene when their ship is discovered, and they go into total darkness, I just experienced one hell of a raised black level issue. Black bars turned nearly grey, and "fuzzy". This is on LG C6.

Is this the DV issue everyone has been talking about? Any upcoming fix?
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post #29409 of 37242 Old 05-23-2018, 09:23 PM
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This is also "to taste". Raise Target Luminance to favor seeing more highlights. Lower Target Luminance to raise the average scene brightness.

I suggest you start by picking the HDR to SDR Conversion Mode you like best, and then tweak Target Luminance after that.
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Thanks Bob, will do.

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post #29410 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 04:16 AM
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Watching The Matrix UHD. In the scene when their ship is discovered, and they go into total darkness, I just experienced one hell of a raised black level issue. Black bars turned nearly grey, and "fuzzy". This is on LG C6.

Is this the DV issue everyone has been talking about? Any upcoming fix?
Yes precisely. This is a bug in the TV (not the player) in its handling of Dolby Vision input over HDMI.

So far Dolby has issued TWO fixes for this to LG. LG has released the first of those only, and only in firmware on their Korean support site, and only for their 2017/2018 panels. That first fix was not a complete solution.

LG claims to still be testing Dolby’s new,improved, 2nd fix. They also claim the fix will eventually be released for the 2016 panels. But no dates on any of that yet.

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post #29411 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 04:36 AM
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Yes precisely. This is a bug in the TV (not the player) in its handling of Dolby Vision input over HDMI.

So far Dolby has issued TWO fixes for this to LG. LG has released the first of those only, and only in firmware on their Korean support site, and only for their 2017/2018 panels. That first fix was not a complete solution.

LG claims to still be testing Dolby’s new,improved, 2nd fix. They also claim the fix will eventually be released for the 2016 panels. But no dates on any of that yet.

—Bob
Bob, not sure if you’re at liberty to say or not but when the new firmware with the new Dolby profile finally gets approved will it take precedence over the older profile and is that something likely to be communicated in a HDMI handshake?
Also, once the 203 is updated with the new Dolby profile will it be able to switch back to an older version profile if the TV has not been updated with the new profile? I guess these are things that Dolby is hopefully figuring out with all the time that has passed.
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post #29412 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 04:51 AM
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watching the matrix uhd. In the scene when their ship is discovered, and they go into total darkness, i just experienced one hell of a raised black level issue. Black bars turned nearly grey, and "fuzzy". This is on lg c6.

Is this the dv issue everyone has been talking about? Any upcoming fix?
yes
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post #29413 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kinglm View Post
I’m patient but can also express how disappointing the long wait for it to settle out is. I work in IT and software development and also know how tricky it is to quote delivery dates for projects. That said communication to your customers/product owners is also important to keep them customers. And lack of communication and clear status and a timeline other than it’s coming is why I/we chime in...
You're not alone. I had a decent Sony TV (the Sony 940D) and the Panasonic UB900, when I foolishly decided to "go for DV". So, after only 8 MONTHS of owning the 940D I bought a shiny 940E due to the "wonderful" X1 Extreme processor that would solve all my problems, allow me to see DV, and bring world peace. A couple of months later (December 2017) I got the Oppo 203, since it was capable of DV already.

So, now I have spent all this money on new equipment and still have NO DV, still have problems, and no world peace . I'm throwing my vote for the blame on Dolby. They could have told Sony to pound sand and get the standard DV profile to work on their "wonderful" X1 Extreme processor. But, I'm sure some shady deals took place and now we have this mess, involving player manufacturers that were left out of the meetings.

Can't wait to see what the next mess will be.....perhaps HDR10+
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post #29414 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 05:33 AM
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Bob, not sure if you’re at liberty to say or not but when the new firmware with the new Dolby profile finally gets approved will it take precedence over the older profile and is that something likely to be communicated in a HDMI handshake?
Also, once the 203 is updated with the new Dolby profile will it be able to switch back to an older version profile if the TV has not been updated with the new profile? I guess these are things that Dolby is hopefully figuring out with all the time that has passed.
Just to avoid confusing folks, what you are talking about (Dolby Vision Profile(s) support) is entirely separate from the Floating Blacks bug in the TVs for Dolby Vision input over HDMI.

As far as the Profile(s) support, the firmware in the player should be able to tell whether the TV does Dolby Vision the original way, or the Sony-style, way and produce output accordingly. The player should also be able to give you a choice if there's ever a TV out there which supports BOTH ways. It will be interesting to see what Dolby mandates as the naming for these two choices.

Hopefully Dolby has learned something from this fiasco and won't pull the rug out from under people a THIRD time.
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post #29415 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 05:41 AM
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I get that folks want DV as an option for their Sony displays via the Oppo 203/205, but keep in mind one of the more respected calibrators out there (who does consulting for a number of display makers), DNice (owner of 4 OLEDs from Sony, plus LGs and a Samsung Q9) has said that a properly calibrated display that is only HDR10 capable will look equal to a DV capable display. I really don't think there is much to debate here regarding someone being at a disadvantage regarding picture quality via the Oppo without DV and the topic of who's to blame as been debated too much IMO on this thread plus many others on AVS. Get your display calibrated (or do it yourself) and enjoy a great picture with/without DV
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post #29416 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 05:49 AM
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I get that folks want DV as an option for their Sony displays via the Oppo 203/205, but keep in mind one of the more respected calibrators out there (who does consulting for a number of display makers), DNice (owner of 4 OLEDs from Sony, plus LGs and a Samsung Q9) has said that a properly calibrated display that is only HDR10 capable will look equal to a DV capable display. I really don't think there is much to debate here regarding someone being at a disadvantage regarding picture quality via the Oppo without DV and the topic of who's to blame as been debated too much IMO on this thread plus many others on AVS. Get your display calibrated (or do it yourself) and enjoy a great picture with/without DV
I fully agree with the recommendation to get a pro calibration.

I'm not convinced by the assertion DV content can not look better than HDR10. For one thing, I suspect the studios are still learning how best to take advantage of DV.

(Think of how crappy some of the early HDR10 releases looked, for example.)
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post #29417 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 05:57 AM
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^^^
I don't want to speak for D-Nice but i remember that comment and i speak to him frequently. I believe what he meant was correctly graded HDR10 content could look as good as good as correctly graded DV content. You have to remember that HDR10 only has Peak and Average metadata for the "Entire" movie vs DV is frame by frame which gives it an edge.


@Bob Pariseau , Bob, while i'm here i just wanted to say i still think i got a defective 203 beacause after all this time, i still don't have any issues with the player.
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post #29418 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 06:04 AM
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^^^
I don't want to speak for D-Nice but i remember that comment and i speak to him frequently. I believe what he meant was correctly graded HDR10 content could look as good as good as correctly graded DV content. You have to remember that HDR10 only has Peak and Average metadata for the "Entire" movie vs DV is frame by frame which gives it an edge.


@Bob Pariseau , Bob, while i'm here i just wanted to say i still think i got a defective 203 beacause after all this time, i still don't have any issues with the player.
Thanks John, I could have sworn calibration came into play as well, but I don't have the time to find the post.

Bob - you have more faith then I do in the studios, I fear they will continue to do things half ass with DV, similar to how the continue to operate with the immersive audio formats. With just a little effort they could really provide us with an immersive experience all the way around.

I guess I'm another one with a defective 203, rock solid since December 2016. Given the shut down, I don't see parting with my 83 or 103 either.
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post #29419 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 06:08 AM
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It's kind of funny how you used the word "spec'd" as the Oppo IS handling Dolby Vision according to the spec's Dolby told them it needed to meet when Dolby initially certified the Oppo. Dolby later moved the goal posts to make Sony happy and we're in the situation we're in now. The good news is that it will be coming; people just need to learn how to be patient.
I agree I blame Sony and Dolby for this. Remember ages ago Dolby came out and said that some devices can receive a software upgrade to enable Dolby Vision I think that they just saw Sony as gee we would like to have their brand on our list.Its alright saying the ATV can play Dolby Vision over HDMI but it can't play a physical disc can it, neither can their own Sony UHD player for Dolby Vision which I find weird you would think that their own player would support their own tv's low latency if all was good with that version without the promise of a firmware update and we all know how long that might take.

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Just to avoid confusing folks, what you are talking about (Dolby Vision Profile(s) support) is entirely separate from the Floating Blacks bug in the TVs for Dolby Vision input over HDMI.

As far as the Profile(s) support, the firmware in the player should be able to tell whether the TV does Dolby Vision the original way, or the Sony-style, way and produce output accordingly. The player should also be able to give you a choice if there's ever a TV out there which supports BOTH ways. It will be interesting to see what Dolby mandates as the naming for these two choices.

Hopefully Dolby has learned something from this fiasco and won't pull the rug out from under people a THIRD time.
--Bob
That's probably the hard part Bob hence why were still waiting by the time Dolby sort them selves out HDR10 + will be main stream and probably better.

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post #29421 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 06:54 AM
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I agree I blame Sony and Dolby for this. Remember ages ago Dolby came out and said that some devices can receive a software upgrade to enable Dolby Vision I think that they just saw Sony as gee we would like to have their brand on our list.Its alright saying the ATV can play Dolby Vision over HDMI but it can't play a physical disc can it, neither can their own Sony UHD player for Dolby Vision which I find weird you would think that their own player would support their own tv's low latency if all was good with that version without the promise of a firmware update and we all know how long that might take.
Suspect the Sony player delay is the 180 flipside of the OPPO delay as far as DV certification goes. The Sony player has probably been fully capable of supporting low latency from the get go (as evidenced by CES demo) but is having certification issues with the original/legacy/basic/what-have-you DV. Whereas the OPPO is the opposite...their original/legacy/basic/what-have-you DV is fully certified but the delay is in the low latency/Sony version of DV for their re-certification. The common denominator for these "delays" (mess, including the LG black bar issue) is Dolby.
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post #29422 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
I get that folks want DV as an option for their Sony displays via the Oppo 203/205, but keep in mind one of the more respected calibrators out there (who does consulting for a number of display makers), DNice (owner of 4 OLEDs from Sony, plus LGs and a Samsung Q9) has said that a properly calibrated display that is only HDR10 capable will look equal to a DV capable display. I really don't think there is much to debate here regarding someone being at a disadvantage regarding picture quality via the Oppo without DV and the topic of who's to blame as been debated too much IMO on this thread plus many others on AVS. Get your display calibrated (or do it yourself) and enjoy a great picture with/without DV
Frankly, it really irks me when someone tries to tell me that I don't need some feature just because they feel it isn't needed. I really don't care what an "expert" says. If DV is so unnecessary, then why does it even exist? I have watched some shows in both HDR10 and DV and find DV to be better. If HDR10 is so great, why is HDR10+ coming out?

Regarding too much discussion of this topic, I can't tell you how often I've seen some subject being discussed ad nauseam and think why is this going on and on. But this is the AVS forum and we all have different priorities that we want to discuss, and if I don't want to follow those posts, then I just skip over them.

Many people are justifiably annoyed at what is happening with DV, Oppo, and Dolby, and they will discuss it in this and other forums as this debacle continues. If you don't like it, then just don't read the posts. And you can always add someone to your ignore list if you don't want to see their posts.
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post #29423 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Yes precisely. This is a bug in the TV (not the player) in its handling of Dolby Vision input over HDMI.

So far Dolby has issued TWO fixes for this to LG. LG has released the first of those only, and only in firmware on their Korean support site, and only for their 2017/2018 panels. That first fix was not a complete solution.

LG claims to still be testing Dolby’s new,improved, 2nd fix. They also claim the fix will eventually be released for the 2016 panels. But no dates on any of that yet.

—Bob
LG released new firmware [03.00.75] affecting DV today (5/23/18): http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-OLED65C8PUA

Detailed applicable models list : Please check with Reference Tab exactly
* SW information

1. Improvement
1) Update for Dolby vision calibration

2. Applicable model list
OLED77W8PUA
OLED65W8PUA
OLED65E8PUA
OLED55E8PUA
OLED77C8PUA
OLED65C8PUA
OLED55C8PUA
OLED65C8AUA
OLED55C8AUA

3. Release History
[03.00.62]
1. Minor Bug Fix

[03.00.75]
1. Update for Dolby vision calibration
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post #29424 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 07:15 AM
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After speaking to an Oppo rep, it doesn't appear the Dolby Vision firmware update is coming any time soon (that's my interpretation only). I was told, "We're finding the changes required to do player based processing much more difficult than we originally anticipated. We'll be releasing a firmware update that will support Dolby Vision with Sony TVs, but we don't know when."
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post #29425 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Slooshy View Post
After speaking to an Oppo rep, it doesn't appear the Dolby Vision firmware update is coming any time soon (that's my interpretation only). I was told, "We're finding the changes required to do player based processing much more difficult than we originally anticipated. We'll be releasing a firmware update that will support Dolby Vision with Sony TVs, but we don't know when."
If that's the case, then fine. At least Oppo shouldn't string us along and should just come out and officially say that a release date is indeterminate, if ever. I wouldn't be happy, but at least I'd know. IMHO, the length of time it has taken to accomplish this "certification" suggests that there is a major problem.

It's so unfortunate and disappointing that the upcoming Panasonic player has DV as a future update (I'll never buy into those "promises" again). Otherwise I'd pre-order it in a heartbeat and sell the Oppo.
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post #29426 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slooshy View Post
After speaking to an Oppo rep, it doesn't appear the Dolby Vision firmware update is coming any time soon (that's my interpretation only). I was told, "We're finding the changes required to do player based processing much more difficult than we originally anticipated. We'll be releasing a firmware update that will support Dolby Vision with Sony TVs, but we don't know when."
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post #29427 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I'm not convinced by the assertion DV content can not look better than HDR10.

I agree. The evidence is clear on existing content:



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post #29428 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 07:50 AM
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So this is just an issue with Sony TVs correct?
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post #29429 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slooshy View Post
After speaking to an Oppo rep, it doesn't appear the Dolby Vision firmware update is coming any time soon (that's my interpretation only). I was told, "We're finding the changes required to do player based processing much more difficult than we originally anticipated. We'll be releasing a firmware update that will support Dolby Vision with Sony TVs, but we don't know when."
That seems to be a bit different spin than the firmware has been handed over to Dolby for certification.
Agreed, I’d just like to know where it stands. That’s a big change if true than what we were told the prior status was.
You would think they want this settled as it affects people’s buying decisions. With DV titles becoming more frequent there’s no way I’d buy a Sony TV currently until the Dolby fiasco is settled.
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post #29430 of 37242 Old 05-24-2018, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
^^^
I don't want to speak for D-Nice but i remember that comment and i speak to him frequently. I believe what he meant was correctly graded HDR10 content could look as good as good as correctly graded DV content. You have to remember that HDR10 only has Peak and Average metadata for the "Entire" movie vs DV is frame by frame which gives it an edge.

It gives DV an edge on paper, but not so much in practice. Not in any real world scenario I've seen yet. The real irony being that it's the low and mid-level panels that would benefit the most from DV's dynamic metadata approach, but most of those displays lack both the processing power to implement it and the desire to jack up the price to pay for Dolby's licensing.

People with super high contrast displays are much more likely to be able to hit any luminance target asked for by an HDR10 grade without issue, (either natively or by proxy through a universal tone map) and are therefore less likely to see much real-world benefit from a DV grade. Everything's kind of bass-ackwards right now. Between that, the slow roll-out and all the technical issues with various players and displays, I'm not really sure how Dolby could have screwed this up any worse.
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