Official Oppo UDP-205 UHD Blu-ray player Anticipation Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 1138 Old 12-20-2016, 03:25 AM
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The 205 looks real sweet but I currently have a 105D in my 2ch stereo setup and am awaiting my 203 for my home theater. Looking forward to see how much improved audio will come from the 205 since I would not need any video in my stereo setup.
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post #62 of 1138 Old 12-20-2016, 04:30 AM
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Entered my email on the 2-5 link as well so the 205 will replace my 105.
The 203 should be here tomorrow (to upgrade my 103).
Having 2 systems is nice, quite expensive, and presents capability issues.
Now what to do with those (I usually provide my relatives with my older gear after the older gear built the second system, of course).

Since I currently use my 105 for streaming Netflix/Pandora and use the analog audio outs (sometimes), the 203 will stay with the 105 until the 205 is released. I need the 4k of course. Then, when I get the 205, I'll move the 203 to replace the 103 (also need 4k), but will use my Apple TV for streaming (might get a Roku). Waiting for the 205 to see if I would need the Roku (need streaming in 2 systems).

An aside question, with streaming apps on multiple devices simultaneously (TV, Oppo, processor, streaming device), do the apps (say Netflix) all need to be individually updated with new firmware as the app is upgraded? or are they just "links" to whatever version is currently being used?

As the 105 was touted for the capability to act as a mini-processor (directly feeding amps) and many (me included) used it that way to take advantage of the DAC's and inputs, it was nearly 3x the cost of the 103. When I upgraded to the Marantz 8802A, I felt those DACs and HDAM were actually comparable, as good or better than the 105 (hard to really test this), so even my use of analog outs lessened.

For the 205 to accomplish this as well presents some issues if you include 4k HDR (a must on the input), and Atmos/DTS:X (on the output). That rear picture of the 105 has 7.1 outputs, not 11.1. My guess is you would need the HDMI out for 11.x systems and that the processor option (if still offered) would only accommodate 7.1 (but likely HDR).

No doubt streaming should be included as the much higher price would pay for the licensing fees that probably change with quantity (hence the no. of players sold, which is much less for the 5s vs the 3s as there are much fewer audiophiles).

This offers an interesting dilemma, namely the 203 might be good enough if one does not use the processor option (more likely not to use it with immersive audio) or the analog output (more likely not to use it with the better processor capabilities). If that is the case, streaming is not worth that much money (say one or two hundred more, not 3x).
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post #63 of 1138 Old 12-20-2016, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
No doubt streaming should be included as the much higher price would pay for the licensing fees that probably change with quantity (hence the no. of players sold, which is much less for the 5s vs the 3s as there are much fewer audiophiles).
I don't want streaming included; I want the 205 to be the best disc player coupled with audiophile-quality audio processing.

That's it.

I have multiple devices that can provide streaming, and if I didn't an extra $99 would buy me one.
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post #64 of 1138 Old 12-20-2016, 07:18 AM
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I do agree with you, but was just trying to see what features might be included in the 205 to justify it being different and better than the 203 and whether those features are worth it.

We have no say in the matter as to what will be included and the beta testers should already know.
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post #65 of 1138 Old 12-20-2016, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
Entered my email on the 2-5 link as well so the 205 will replace my 105.
The 203 should be here tomorrow (to upgrade my 103).
Having 2 systems is nice, quite expensive, and presents capability issues.
Now what to do with those (I usually provide my relatives with my older gear after the older gear built the second system, of course).

Since I currently use my 105 for streaming Netflix/Pandora and use the analog audio outs (sometimes), the 203 will stay with the 105 until the 205 is released. I need the 4k of course. Then, when I get the 205, I'll move the 203 to replace the 103 (also need 4k), but will use my Apple TV for streaming (might get a Roku). Waiting for the 205 to see if I would need the Roku (need streaming in 2 systems).

As the 105 was touted for the capability to act as a mini-processor (directly feeding amps) and many (me included) used it that way to take advantage of the DAC's and inputs, it was nearly 3x the cost of the 103. When I upgraded to the Marantz 8802A, I felt those DACs and HDAM were actually comparable, as good or better than the 105 (hard to really test this), so even my use of analog outs lessened.

For the 205 to accomplish this as well presents some issues if you include 4k HDR (a must on the input), and Atmos/DTS:X (on the output). That rear picture of the 105 has 7.1 outputs, not 11.1. My guess is you would need the HDMI out for 11.x systems and that the processor option (if still offered) would only accommodate 7.1 (but likely HDR).

No doubt streaming should be included as the much higher price would pay for the licensing fees that probably change with quantity (hence the no. of players sold, which is much less for the 5s vs the 3s as there are much fewer audiophiles).

This offers an interesting dilemma, namely the 203 might be good enough if one does not use the processor option (more likely not to use it with immersive audio) or the analog output (more likely not to use it with the better processor capabilities). If that is the case, streaming is not worth that much money (say one or two hundred more, not 3x).
It's not completely clear to me exactly how you have your 105 utilized, but given your comments about the Marantz AV8802A, you might consider just going with 2 UDP-203's if you're finding you don't really need the better analog outputs anymore. If the 105 is just in a secondary system, the analog outputs on the 103/203 are actually quite good and might be fine anyway; they also have volume control just as the 105 does. Just something to consider that would save you a considerable amount of money.

Let me preface the rest of this by saying that I don't have any inside info on the 205...

My expectation is that the 205 is going to be the audiophile version of the 203, just as the 105 was the audiophile version of the 103, (and the 95 vs 93, and 83SE vs 83). I would expect to see additional digital inputs (including the USB DAC input) and an extra set of stereo analog outputs (with both RCA and XLR), just like we got on the 105. I'm not really expecting to see anything else that isn't on the 203, such as internal Atmos / DTS:X processing or room correction.

I'm expecting pretty much all other functionality, such as HDR and DV support to be the same on both models.

It's certainly possible that Oppo may surprise us with other features that differentiate the 2 models, but we'll have to wait and see what they come up with (or speculate... ).

If we get any apps, I would definitely expect them to appear in both models, not just the 205, as it just makes sense to add them to the entire 20x platform. I'm not entirely sure how the cost of adding support for an app works - does Netflix (or other streaming service) charge the device manufacturer a licensing fee of some sort (either a one time fee or a per unit fee) for the app or provide the app at no charge to the device manufacturer and count on generating revenue from a percentage of the end users paying to use the service? My guess is that it depends on the streaming service, but either way, this is why the streaming partners are more interested in working with partners that sell a LOT of units as their effort to create an app for platform X with a hundred thousand potential users will generate a lot more subscription revenue than the same (or similar) effort to create an app for platform Y with a "few" thousand potential users (I have no idea how many players each company sells, but Oppo is closer to the Y category...). But this is a big part of why Oppo would add the apps to both models rather than just 1, as it makes their platform more attractive to a potential streaming partner.

To address one of your questions separately:

Quote:
Originally Posted by normandia View Post
An aside question, with streaming apps on multiple devices simultaneously (TV, Oppo, processor, streaming device), do the apps (say Netflix) all need to be individually updated with new firmware as the app is upgraded? or are they just "links" to whatever version is currently being used?
The way previous Oppo players have worked has been that the apps are all included in whichever firmware version is installed, so when you update the firmware on the player, you get the current (Oppo) version of all the apps. If they add apps to the 20x platform, it's unknown if they'll continue with this model or switch to something more like the Apple App Store where each app installs and updates separately.

Last edited by gsr; 12-20-2016 at 04:05 PM.
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post #66 of 1138 Old 12-20-2016, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
I do agree with you, but was just trying to see what features might be included in the 205 to justify it being different and better than the 203 and whether those features are worth it.

We have no say in the matter as to what will be included and the beta testers should already know.
Based on the 103 vs. 105, the 205 will offer better analog audio (and a headphone jack) among the main differences from the 203.
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post #67 of 1138 Old 12-20-2016, 03:00 PM
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Based on the 103 vs. 105, the 205 will offer better analog audio (and a headphone jack) among the main differences from the 203.
Thanks! Presume you meant the 205 has improved audio DACs relative to the 105.
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post #68 of 1138 Old 12-20-2016, 03:13 PM
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Thanks! Presume you meant the 205 has improved audio DACs relative to the 105.
The 205 might be a slight improvement in audio DACs vs. the 105, but what I meant is that the 205 will definitely have better audio DACs than the 203 (just like the 105 has better audio than the 103).
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post #69 of 1138 Old 12-20-2016, 08:07 PM
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Look, no one except the people at Oppo, which I've met, have any idea how much "better" the 205 is than the 105.
In my real world experience, Oppo doesn't make changes just to make changes unless there is a real, audible difference however subtle to some.
In my experience the 105 was a much better piece of gear than the 95 in every way as was the 95 vs. the 83.

I'm expecting the same the refinements in the 205 vs. the 105.
Believe me, if I don't perceive a difference I will be the first one to say so but right now no one but Oppo staff and beta testers even know what the back panel looks like.
So expressing an opinion on the 205 is really meaningless because it has no basis in real world knowledge.
Put away the Ouija board, enjoy Christmas and New Years and wait for the facts.

 
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post #70 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 04:42 AM
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Lack of streaming apps, to me is not a big deal. They are built into my TV, and I have a PS4, Xbox 1S, and a Roku. It's actually refreshing to own something so focused on doing one thing. Playing disc based movies.
Except at one point I could use an Oppo to do everything I ever wanted, and now I can't. It's a step backwards.

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post #71 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Except at one point I could use an Oppo to do everything I ever wanted, and now I can't. It's a step backwards.
Good; a Swiss Army Knife is never as good as a set of dedicated tools.
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post #72 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 07:01 AM
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Good; a Swiss Army Knife is never as good as a set of dedicated tools.
I don't buy that as it relates to the Oppo players - that's like saying the Oppo 10X players aren't as good as they could be due to the inclusion of Netflix.
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post #73 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't buy that as it relates to the Oppo players - that's like saying the Oppo 10X players aren't as good as they could be due to the inclusion of Netflix.
My personal opinion (for which I don't have any evidence) is that engineering time spent on apps could have been spent bug fixing instead, resulting in slightly faster bug fix turnaround - all assuming Oppo is like most engineering organizations with a lot of work to do and limited talent and time with which to do it.
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post #74 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 07:36 AM
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Happy Holidays to all.
The main difference between the 103 and the 105 was the 105's audiophile nature right?
Don't y'all expect the same 203 vs. 205?
If you aren't interested in the type and number of how many DACs, etc., there are in the 205, can't see that there is any reason to need the 205.
What I am looking for in the 205:
1. Multi-channel asynchronous USB (I2S input even better)
2. ESS 9028 or 9038 or better DACs
3. More than 2 DAC chips; 5 would be good!
4. Improved output regulation
5. Improved power source
Is all the above going to be in the 205? Probably not, but I think 1-5 above is the idea.
I never use the headphone output on the 105; curious how many dudes do use it.
Best wishes.
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post #75 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 10:51 AM
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Good; a Swiss Army Knife is never as good as a set of dedicated tools.
If you like to have a rack of components, each consuming power, each with its own remote, all allegedly able to interoperate (but you get to be the system integrator), and a rats' nest of cables connected it all, that's your prerogative, but I much prefer having power and LAN going to one Oppo with one HDMI going to the display.

My display is 35' from the Oppo. I don't want to run another cable to the TV just because Oppo doesn't support Netflix streaming anymore.

At a minimum, now I have to add a hub and some cheezy little sidekick streaming doodad next to the Oppo, and what exactly is gained by that?

Oppo could have treated the various streaming services as software options. Then if someone wants Netflix, they pay for it.

P.S. I used to be one of those dedicated-components guys. Had separate CD player, SACD player, DVD player, VHS, etc. Then one day I realized most of what I had in the rack was duplication. Multiple transports, multiple power supplies, multiple CPUs. One of the big selling points of the Oppo is that it will play any disk thrown at it. But doesn't that make it a Swiss Army knife? Why not have a separate player for each format? Answer: because that would be stupid.
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post #76 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 04:17 PM
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Added my name to the email list for this one. Hopefully some info starts leaking out pretty soon (other than Beta testers) and I can see if it will really be what I am after.
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post #77 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 04:24 PM
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Happy Holidays to all.
The main difference between the 103 and the 105 was the 105's audiophile nature right?
Don't y'all expect the same 203 vs. 205?
If you aren't interested in the type and number of how many DACs, etc., there are in the 205, can't see that there is any reason to need the 205.
What I am looking for in the 205:
1. Multi-channel asynchronous USB (I2S input even better)
2. ESS 9028 or 9038 or better DACs
3. More than 2 DAC chips; 5 would be good!
4. Improved output regulation
5. Improved power source
Is all the above going to be in the 205? Probably not, but I think 1-5 above is the idea.
I never use the headphone output on the 105; curious how many dudes do use it.
Best wishes.
---

In my experience none of the points you are making will make any huge/significant difference in SQ. I doubt you or I would hear the diff between the 9018 vs the 9038 on our usual music or movies, in our current setup... The main issue is always your room, and then speakers/power amps. Just my humble opinion after 40 years of HiFi as a serious hobby. BTW, and not really related to this post: I tried using the Oppo 105D directly into power amps, but I found it worked much better into a dedicated preamp (in my case, a Parasound P7). So my guess is that the same will apply to the 205. With some simple op-amps it will NOT be a proper preamp (look at input vs output impedance, max in, mac out, ...)
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post #78 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 04:49 PM
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---

In my experience none of the points you are making will make any huge/significant difference in SQ. I doubt you or I would hear the diff between the 9018 vs the 9038 on our usual music or movies, in our current setup... The main issue is always your room, and then speakers/power amps. Just my humble opinion after 40 years of HiFi as a serious hobby. BTW, and not really related to this post: I tried using the Oppo 105D directly into power amps, but I found it worked much better into a dedicated preamp (in my case, a Parasound P7). So my guess is that the same will apply to the 205. With some simple op-amps it will NOT be a proper preamp (look at input vs output impedance, max in, mac out, ...)
.. and just as a side note: I have found that my investments in room treatments (from GIK) have made a HUGE difference :-)
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post #79 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 06:38 PM
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Is Oppo at CES?

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post #80 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 06:39 PM
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Is it safe to summarize the 205 is a 105 with UHD but no streaming?

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post #81 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 06:42 PM
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Is it safe to summarize the 205 is a 105 with UHD but no streaming?
Until it is announced with specs that would be true.

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post #82 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 06:43 PM
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Is it safe to summarize the 205 is a 105 with UHD but no streaming?
Hmm, are you wearing your protective goggles? Does your room have sprinklers.

Aw heck, go ahead and assume. It will be AWESOME!
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What is your problem?

Does 30,000 post allow you to be rude and condescending.

Maybe Anthem will come out with a D5 and you will be happy again.

Geez.

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Until it is announced with specs that would be true.
Thanks John

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post #85 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 07:23 PM
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What is your problem?

Does 30,000 post allow you to be rude and condescending.

Maybe Anthem will come out with a D5 and you will be happy again.

Geez.
I'm sorry if my post offended you. I just thought your post must be intended as tongue in cheek.

Since there is NO INFORMATION yet about the 205, there is no way to summarize what it will be yet. Safely or otherwise.
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post #86 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 07:24 PM
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Except at one point I could use an Oppo to do everything I ever wanted, and now I can't. It's a step backwards.
I have always had a second blu-ray player for streaming, specifically because of Amazon Prime.
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post #87 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 07:33 PM
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@BP
Then that is what you should have said.

Since this is prelim banter I was hoping for a leak and n a PM

MERRY Christmas to all and to all a good night

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post #88 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 07:48 PM
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Ok I will just come out and say it, I see a lot of folks on here, not just this thread, talking about the Oppo players, but I just don't get it. I mean I saw the picture on the first page with the TON of connection options and all. But outside of getting one of the models with Darbee built in whats the big deal? Its a digital signal either it works or it doesn't, I don't understand why its worth such a huge price premium, unless you MUST have those additional audio out options built into the player itself.
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post #89 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 08:38 PM
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I have always had a second blu-ray player for streaming, specifically because of Amazon Prime.
Very convenient.

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post #90 of 1138 Old 12-21-2016, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by liffie420 View Post
Ok I will just come out and say it, I see a lot of folks on here, not just this thread, talking about the Oppo players, but I just don't get it. I mean I saw the picture on the first page with the TON of connection options and all. But outside of getting one of the models with Darbee built in whats the big deal? Its a digital signal either it works or it doesn't, I don't understand why its worth such a huge price premium, unless you MUST have those additional audio out options built into the player itself.
The bits are there for all players, but what the players do with them depends on the expertise of the engineers. Want upscaling? That's not free--some smart person has to figure it out, bake it into firmware and/or hardware, and similarly for managing colorspaces, handling screwed-up disks (sometimes the bits *aren't* there), and so forth. If you think any of that is a simple matter of bits in and bits out, I encourage you to build one yourself.

There are other things about Oppo that may not be obvious. First of all, their customer support is without peer. They are super-responsive, very open about their plans, bugs they've found, what's in the next firmware release (and when), etc. They rock.

Another thing is, we mean it when we say you can throw anything at the player and it will almost always be able to read the disk. Anyone who has had a disk rejected by a commodity player knows how frustrating that is. Our current Oppo 105 has only rejected two disks in years, one of which was cracked. And if they can't read a disk because it's mastered incorrectly, they push a firmware update that works around the studio's mistakes.

And on top of all of that, this is a thread for their super-duper analog player. Check the specs on the 105's analog stage and you'll see what we mean.
Bill Mac and captainbrent like this.

My system? Google for: Martin Logan 420 CLX Descent Stage Summit
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