Samsung Unveils M9500 UHD Blu-ray Player Ahead of CES 2017 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ulisescm View Post
What do you think about the oled lg built in apps? I have the same tv

I like them! But we're held back by the fact we have to use ARC for audio ... and that's only giving us 5.1.

All I want is one media player that plays 4K, HDR, high definition audio (Dolby Atmos, 7.1) all in one ...

Rumor is that Amazon Prime is FINALLY on it's way to the Shield ... so that will certainly be the step in the right direction.

... again, the Sammy player is quite great ... just needs a few more updates. ; )
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post #62 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 08:46 AM
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I'm all in support for ease of use. This thing better weigh more than a pound
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post #63 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 08:48 AM
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Agreed on the whole apps placement and better UI... I can't place Amazon on the home page? that's lame.
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post #64 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
"The player will automatically adjust TV video and audio settings based on source content, in order to provide the most optimal viewing experience possible with support for HDR video..."

Wondering if this will mean compensation for the lack of sufficient lumens...particularly in the case for projectors.
The first player did this, and it is why I returned it. The settings were not optimal they were way too high. To make it worse, they wouldn't revert after you wanted to watch TV or something. I couldn't find a way to turn it off and Samsung was no help.
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post #65 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
The first player did this, and it is why I returned it. The settings were not optimal they were way too high. To make it worse, they wouldn't revert after you wanted to watch TV or something. I couldn't find a way to turn it off and Samsung was no help.
What exact settings are you referring to? HDR kicking in and maxed Brightness/contrast?

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post #66 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by aKa DaShiznit View Post
Man it would be super sweet if Samsung comes through and we do indeed get an update for HLG and dynamic HDR10!! Hell I wouldn't mind buying an upgraded one connect box with HDMI 2.1 if needed either as i love this TV and would love to not feel the need to upgrade that too.

As far as the K8500, if we do need this new player for dynamic HDR10 then it can always mysteriously break since I have the Best Buy protection on it . Man I should have picked a cheaper hobby
Sometimes I wish I had waited another year. I hated my Samsung JS8500 (well, actually all 3 of the ones I had when I kept swapping them out) because of horrible backlight issues, and other LED edge-lit weaknesses that really were magnified on that TV. Which is why I swapped out for the Sony X930C which has a far superior picture quality overall. But they are both 2015 models, and so it's unlikely I will benefit from Dynamic Metadata, or that owners of the 2015 J series and Sony XBR series of TV's will. Which kind of sucks because as early adopters of HDR our TV's are more limited in brightness then even your K series TV's that are only a year or two newer. So the slightly older sets really need that dynamic metadata to help adjust the brightness and so we don't get blown out white scenes on stuff that is mastered for 4000 nits of brightness. The newer sets will be somewhat less susceptible to that. The 2016 Samsung sets seem dramatically better on the black levels and edge-lit problems then the 2015 J series TV's were. So I kind of wish I had waited.. but I do love my X930C. But would be nice to have a TV that could go up to 1000 nits.

Oh well, this is what you get when you are an earlier adopter. I have three HDDVD players at home as well. I suppose I can't ask for any more then, just that the HDR movies, and players that enable dynamic metadata to continue working correctly with our sets that are incompatible with dynamic metadata through HDR10.
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post #67 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TB4XSBC View Post
Anyways, the only way you'll see any kind of actual benefit from DV is if you've got an LG OLED. The Vizio P and the lower end LG use a fake/simulated DV that provides minimal benefit at best.
This is news to me.

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post #68 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post
From memory, Samsung has stated the 2016 KS models will get the Dynamic HDR update.
Didn't realize this. That's great. Of course, my TV is a 2015... and a Sony. Which means, dont' get me wrong, I love my TV, but I won't hear about the update until it comes out, even if it is possible. And then when it comes out, the fact sheet Sony releases is going to say absolutely nothing. Typical Sony.

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post #69 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:09 AM
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First I've heard of that - is there a write-up or a link somewhere?
Yeah, I haven't heard that either. As far as I knew, Dolby Vision is far more useful in sets that have somewhat more limited capabilities due to it's mapping abilities. So even if what he claimed were true, I would think Dolby Vision would be the very tool that would make them perform to their best abilities.

Honestly, the more I think about his comment, the more nonsense it really is. The LG OLED's have the best black levels, but their brightness maxes out lower then most HDR capable LED sets, including the P series. Which, in my limited knowledge about the benefits of Dolby Vision and HDR10 with dynamic metadata, would be the very secret sauce an LG OLED would require to prevent blown out whites on material mastered at 1000, or even 4000 nits of brightness.

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post #70 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by aKa DaShiznit View Post
Man it would be super sweet if Samsung comes through and we do indeed get an update for HLG and dynamic HDR10!! Hell I wouldn't mind buying an upgraded one connect box with HDMI 2.1 if needed either as i love this TV and would love to not feel the need to upgrade that too.

As far as the K8500, if we do need this new player for dynamic HDR10 then it can always mysteriously break since I have the Best Buy protection on it . Man I should have picked a cheaper hobby
I know. I miss my days of being happy with a new hot wheels. Lol

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post #71 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by goksucats View Post
Yeah, I haven't heard that either. As far as I knew, Dolby Vision is far more useful in sets that have somewhat more limited capabilities due to it's mapping abilities. So even if what he claimed were true, I would think Dolby Vision would be the very tool that would make them perform to their best abilities.

Honestly, the more I think about his comment, the more nonsense it really is. The LG OLED's have the best black levels, but their brightness maxes out lower then most HDR capable LED sets, including the P series. Which, in my limited knowledge about the benefits of Dolby Vision and HDR10 with dynamic metadata, would be the very secret sauce an LG OLED would require to prevent blown out whites on material mastered at 1000, or even 4000 nits of brightness.
You're right, I just looked at the peak brightness and wide color gamut measurements for the LG OLED, and it's not that impressive. My KS8000 has it beat there. So I'm forced to change my statement - there are currently no TVs on the market that can benefit significantly from DV. Whether DV is able to get the best out of a set is irrelevant, since as you said, those TVs cannot get as bright as even the KS8000, and their color gamut isn't as wide.
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post #72 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:23 AM
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Man, Samsung sure knows how to make some hideous players. Guess they're a perfect match for their hideous curved TVs though

the K8500 is buggy and feels really junky. Looks like they'll continue the trend in 2017...It's going to come down to the Oppo, forthcoming Sony, or Panasonic player for me once I upgrade my TV.
It's not even so much that they are curved that makes them ugly. It's just..... flipping homely as hell. Uglier then the original Xbox One even. Lol.




I can vouch for the quality of the Panasonic player. My buddy has it, and it operates beautifully. Very quiet as well and puts out better picture quality to my eyes then his Xbox One S. That said, they are going to have to drop the price of that player, and fast, with Oppo's new player out on the market. People aren't going to pay MORE for a Panny player then an Oppo player, much less the same amount. Same issue with the forthcoming Sony. Not sure what is up with Sony announcing only one player so far, and why it's limited to professional installers as a reseller. But with them putting the ES logo on it, and marketing as such, I'm sure it will be a wonderful player. But it's gonna have to be less then Oppo as well IMO.
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post #73 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:27 AM
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Getting closer to 100-150€? Budget players are needed soon, or UHD Blu-ray momentum (such as it is) will wither.
Agreed. And Sony is really the one dropping the ball on this thing. My understanding is they have more of a vested interest in all forms of Blu-ray succeeding then anyone due to their various ventures in all forms of gaming, film, and hardware.

Why the PS4 Pro did not include an Ultra HD player is mystifying. And why their only announced player so far is a premium ES player, is also insanity.
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post #74 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Ralarcon View Post
"Not sure what they mean by this but the K8500 always kicked into HDR mode by itself when played HDR content such as UHD discs... its not like you had to switch a button on for it? Am I missing something here..."

No, you are not missing anything, and yes you are right.

Cheers
Yeah, as far as I know the 2015 J series and 2015 Sony XBR series TV's with HDR also automatically kick into HDR video mode as well. Weird comment by cnet.

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post #75 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:37 AM
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"The player will automatically adjust TV video and audio settings based on source content, in order to provide the most optimal viewing experience possible with support for HDR video..."
As I read this comment again. "The player will automatically adjust TV video and audio settings based on source content" . Hmm. It almost reads as stating it is going to change settings on the actual TV set doesn't it? I mean, I know that CEC functionality is improving to the point I can even control my 2015 Samsung Blu-ray player with my 2015 Sony TV remote, and vice-versa. But to actually have the Blu-ray player go in and change settings on the TV. That would be quite a feat.

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post #76 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:48 AM
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^ ^ ^ What would actually be insane is the player would read your Samsung TV and adjust not only the brightness / Contrast (like it already does) but on individual sets, change and set things like Gamma, Colors, White Balance etc; Basically calibrating your TV for HDR viewing and so on. Now that would be crazy insane but highly doubtful.
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post #77 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TB4XSBC View Post
You're right, I just looked at the peak brightness and wide color gamut measurements for the LG OLED, and it's not that impressive. My KS8000 has it beat there. So I'm forced to change my statement - there are currently no TVs on the market that can benefit significantly from DV. Whether DV is able to get the best out of a set is irrelevant, since as you said, those TVs cannot get as bright as even the KS8000, and their color gamut isn't as wide.
Hmm. I'm still not sure I can agree with everything you're stating here. Wouldn't a set like the Vizio P series, or 2015 Samsung and Sony HDR sets that have HDR10 (but not dynamic metadata) benefit from the advantages of Dolby Vision and dynamic metadata for HDR10?

Don't the mapping capabilities of Dolby Vision mean it will map peak black levels and brightness to the capabilities of the TV set you are viewing material on to make it perform it's best? Whereas HDR10 without dynamic metadata can cause blown out whites (certainly not to the extent you used to see in SDR), but still blown out whites on material mastered to 1000 or 4000 nits? I'm still confused by your comment. I would have to think the inclusion of Dolby Vision by LG in their OLED's and Vizio in their P series were a nod to the limited capabilities of those sets compared to others with higher brightness levels in particular.

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post #78 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 11:06 AM
 
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Hmm. I'm still not sure I can agree with everything you're stating here. Wouldn't a set like the Vizio P series, or 2015 Samsung and Sony HDR sets that have HDR10 (but not dynamic metadata) benefit from the advantages of Dolby Vision and dynamic metadata for HDR10?

Don't the mapping capabilities of Dolby Vision mean it will map peak black levels and brightness to the capabilities of the TV set you are viewing material on to make it perform it's best? Whereas HDR10 without dynamic metadata can cause blown out whites (certainly not to the extent you used to see in SDR), but still blown out whites on material mastered to 1000 or 4000 nits? I'm still confused by your comment. I would have to think the inclusion of Dolby Vision by LG in their OLED's and Vizio in their P series were a nod to the limited capabilities of those sets compared to others with higher brightness levels in particular.
My TV can achieve a peak brightness of nearly 1500 nits, according to rtings. I'll take that over TVs like the Vizio P that has a laughable peak brightness of 335 nits. Its color gamut isn't as wide either. Sure, DV will make those TVs perform the best they possibly can given their limitations, but those limitations still prevent them from looking as good as other TVs, despite having DV.

Regarding blown out whites - I've watched Meridian, which is mastered to 4000 nits, and it looks incredible on my TV. No blown out whites.
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post #79 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 11:39 AM
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My TV can achieve a peak brightness of nearly 1500 nits, according to rtings. I'll take that over TVs like the Vizio P that has a laughable peak brightness of 335 nits. Its color gamut isn't as wide either. Sure, DV will make those TVs perform the best they possibly can given their limitations, but those limitations still prevent them from looking as good as other TVs, despite having DV.

Regarding blown out whites - I've watched Meridian, which is mastered to 4000 nits, and it looks incredible on my TV. No blown out whites.
I thought this thread was about the Samsung blu-ray player and not how much brighter your ks-8000 is vs. an LG OLED or Vizio P series. While I can't speak to the Vizio, I do own a KS8000, which I like, but truth be told there is no well in hell I would use it as my main HT display - that spot would be reserved for the OLED all day, every day. A good picture is about more than the specs and peak brightness. This has been repeated throughout the year by reviewers, if you got the $, buy an OLED. As DNice told me the first time I met him when he came to calibrate my Kuro, its all about the blacks. That is where the ks8000 fails - big time.

Now back to Samsung's latest adventure

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post #80 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 11:49 AM
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But to actually have the Blu-ray player go in and change settings on the TV. That would be quite a feat.
...and highly undesirable.

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^ ^ ^ What would actually be insane is the player would read your Samsung TV and adjust not only the brightness / Contrast (like it already does) but on individual sets, change and set things like Gamma, Colors, White Balance etc; Basically calibrating your TV for HDR viewing and so on. Now that would be crazy insane but highly doubtful.
insane, and more to the point highly undesirable! I want my own settings, please.

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Regarding blown out whites - I've watched Meridian, which is mastered to 4000 nits, and it looks incredible on my TV. No blown out whites.
Yes because the TV does tone mapping very well and it scales the brightnesses down to within a range that it knows it can handle. It needs the HDR metadata to be correct for this to work. If it's mastered for 0-1000 or 0-2000 or 0-4000 it'll all get scaled and look correct on the TV.

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post #81 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 11:56 AM
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...and highly undesirable.

insane, and more to the point highly undesirable! I want my own settings, please.
I am sure whatever settings the player may or may not change, Users will always have the control to change back settings, nothing will get locked as is the case right now with HDR settings maxing out Brightness/Contrast. But imagine the player tapping into your TVs deep algorithms to deliver accurate image, I think that's an excellent feature without ppl guessing what settings they should use and half the ppl forgetting to turn on the UHD Color on their samsung TVs.

BUT, I really don't think the UHD player will have anything like that making it a moot point.

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post #82 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 01:34 PM
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Knowing samsung though, they'd rather sell you a brand spankin new UHD player than fix the one you already got for free.
...and you can be damn sure this new model will have it's issues too....
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post #83 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post
Man, Samsung sure knows how to make some hideous players. Guess they're a perfect match for their hideous curved TVs though

the K8500 is buggy and feels really junky. Looks like they'll continue the trend in 2017...It's going to come down to the Oppo, forthcoming Sony, or Panasonic player for me once I upgrade my TV.
It's not even so much that they are curved that makes them ugly. It's just..... flipping homely as hell. Uglier then the original Xbox One even. Lol.




I can vouch for the quality of the Panasonic player. My buddy has it, and it operates beautifully. Very quiet as well and puts out better picture quality to my eyes then his Xbox One S. That said, they are going to have to drop the price of that player, and fast, with Oppo's new player out on the market. People aren't going to pay MORE for a Panny player then an Oppo player, much less the same amount. Same issue with the forthcoming Sony. Not sure what is up with Sony announcing only one player so far, and why it's limited to professional installers as a reseller. But with them putting the ES logo on it, and marketing as such, I'm sure it will be a wonderful player. But it's gonna have to be less then Oppo as well IMO.
I'm seeing on other threads that people have had all 3 machines the Sammy, panny, and oppo and or 2 of the 3, and that most prefer the panny over all of them and some even say the it has the best PQ! The panny 900 has a Lil brother the 700 which is similar and priced lower. I have the Samsung 8500 and the panny 900 I prefer the panny the only reason I have the Samsung was because I wanted to experience UHD disks early on. I'm happy with both in the end no problems
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post #84 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Oh! The word "play"? I can't see where the case ends and the display begins. Is is the entire width of that tiny sloping section?
I thought that was lettering on the case, like the "Samsung". If it's a similar size case to the KS8500, that's going to be almost invisible from the seating position
That would depend on the height of the player. Mine is less than a foot off the floor.

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post #85 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 02:47 PM
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...and you can be damn sure this new model will have it's issues too....
Just like every electronic device sold.
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post #86 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 03:02 PM
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Agreed. And Sony is really the one dropping the ball on this thing. My understanding is they have more of a vested interest in all forms of Blu-ray succeeding then anyone due to their various ventures in all forms of gaming, film, and hardware.
Not to mention all the IP they hold around the medium - they were one of the founders of the Blu-ray Disc Association, the main IP rights holder for the technology stack. You'd think they'd have been a bit more on-the-ball in getting a player out for it.

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Why the PS4 Pro did not include an Ultra HD player is mystifying. And why their only announced player so far is a premium ES player, is also insanity.
I can understand that - when the PS3 was being made, the people making the tech decisions for it were people who'd been on the CE side of Sony for years, so they wanted to push it as a first-class Blu-ray Disc player. The guys running Sony Computer Entertainment now are guys who are more focused on gaming, not CE in general, so taking on the added complication of supporting UltraHD Blu-ray Disc isn't really something they want - and IMO it makes sense. It's more IP to license, more costly drives, more concern about content security, etc. This generation, MS are the ones with a bigger boner over being the "everything box", while Sony wants to stick to gaming - the thing the PlayStation brand is supposed to be all about.
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post #87 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 03:20 PM
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Samsung vs Pannasonic 4k player

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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
I'm seeing on other threads that people have had all 3 machines the Sammy, panny, and oppo and or 2 of the 3, and that most prefer the panny over all of them and some even say the it has the best PQ! The panny 900 has a Lil brother the 700 which is similar and priced lower. I have the Samsung 8500 and the panny 900 I prefer the panny the only reason I have the Samsung was because I wanted to experience UHD disks early on. I'm happy with both in the end no problems

I have the Samsung 4k player and I am happy with it for the most part but I was thinking about upgrading to the Panasonic 900 but would like some feedback on the PQ for 4k UHD disc and also is the Panasonic that much better for up converting the Blu-Ray disc to 4k over the Sammy player? - I will probably use the 4k player more for watching my Blu-Ray movies 60% of the time using the up conversion to 4k and watch the actual 4k movies 25% of the time and 4k Netflix/Amazon 15% of the time.
So trying to get some actual feedback before spending another $600
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post #88 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
I'm seeing on other threads that people have had all 3 machines the Sammy, panny, and oppo and or 2 of the 3, and that most prefer the panny over all of them and some even say the it has the best PQ! The panny 900 has a Lil brother the 700 which is similar and priced lower. I have the Samsung 8500 and the panny 900 I prefer the panny the only reason I have the Samsung was because I wanted to experience UHD disks early on. I'm happy with both in the end no problems

I have the Samsung 4k player and I am happy with it for the most part but I was thinking about upgrading to the Panasonic 900 but would like some feedback on the PQ for 4k UHD disc and also is the Panasonic that much better for up converting the Blu-Ray disc to 4k over the Sammy player? - I will probably use the 4k player more for watching my Blu-Ray movies 60% of the time using the up conversion to 4k and watch the actual 4k movies 25% of the time and 4k Netflix/Amazon 15% of the time.
So trying to get some actual feedback before spending another $600
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...=262&_k=vx2nbi That's the link for that model plenty of feed back. Me personally I like them both but the Panasonic is clearly superior in every way except the amount of apps. Better build quality, slightly better PQ sharper audio and support 4K Netflix HDR. It should go down in price soon now that there is more competition out there. The Samsung ain't a bad player but if you put them head to head you see why u would pay more. You have to be hard core into UHD bluray to do the upgrade. And upscaling Bluray I would say they both do the same job. Just my amature opinion on someone who owns both players
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post #89 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 06:00 PM
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A good picture is about more than the specs and peak brightness....
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

its all about the blacks.
You contradicted yourself in your own post.
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post #90 of 184 Old 12-29-2016, 07:41 PM
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Probably not. Samsung will be releasing dynamic metadata for HDR via firmware update (which will look better than the fake DV on the Vizio P.) I doubt they'll go with Dolby Vision at all - be it for their players or for their TVs.

Anyways, the only way you'll see any kind of actual benefit from DV is if you've got an LG OLED. The Vizio P and the lower end LG use a fake/simulated DV that provides minimal benefit at best.
What exactly makes you say that the Dolby Vision on the Vizio P series is simulated or fake?

I own an LG B6 which is a 12 bit panel, but I thought that DV has a cert spec that a TV must meet and would need to be 12 bit.

I think a statement like that without evidence can be inflammatory here since many guys defend their choice of sets with rabid affection.

From what I've seen of the P series, the Vizio is a legit set with quality 4K and HDR. No it's not an OLED, but nothing is just yet.

DV is indeed more pleasing to the eye than HDR10, but 10 isn't bad, just not as good. Saying that, yes, more sets will support DV in 2017, but for me it's the 4K Blu Ray that's most important, but I've purchased a number of disks this year that I think look just fine with just HDR10. If Mad Max and Revenant could look any better, I wouldn't believe it, even with DV, so even if you don't have it, you can still have a great picture.

DV on Netflix looks impressive, but you can still see some compression and grain. Daredevil looks best, followed by Marco Polo.

Any HDR is better than no HDR thats for sure!
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