UHD Blu-ray players (All) | Comparisons... - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 03:24 PM
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i just read 2 of the latests reviews on the 203 ,and they said pq is better on 203 ,more natural and sharper ,its funny how some people were saying the exact opposite of that ,so now who do we believe
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post #422 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Check out the new Oppo review over on avforums. They report "flawless performance and legendary support" same as my experience.
Check this one too @ What Hi-Fi? where they said:
"There is scope to tweak the picture using Oppo’s DARBEE image processing system, but it’s not subtle enough to make any useful improvements. We’d stick to fine-tuning your TV or projector’s picture when needed."

Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/oppo/udp-203...d1QDehG3yMt.99

DARBEE on the 203?
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post #423 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Scurrah View Post
i just read 2 of the latest reviews on the 203 ,and they said pq is better on 203 ,more natural and sharper ,its funny how some people were saying the exact opposite of that ,so now who do we believe
Everyone agree that owners are your best bet; "unbiased" owners like Al who compared them both, and few more owners (right in this thread) who also compared them both, unbiased owners, along with the Samsung and Microsoft Xbox One S ones.
Read their first priorities on a UHD/4K BR player, and decide if they coincide with your own priorities.
Also, timing is everything...today is not tomorrow, and neither yesterday. So time is also a consideration.

Most mag reviews are financial advertising; read between the lines, read what's not written, read what's missing, read what's omitted, read what's not compared from the same display @ the same time with others.

Stay tuned...much much more to come. Things are improving on all fronts...slowly but surely, and from various players.
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post #424 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Check this one too @ What Hi-Fi? where they said:
"There is scope to tweak the picture using Oppo’s DARBEE image processing system, but it’s not subtle enough to make any useful improvements. We’d stick to fine-tuning your TV or projector’s picture when needed."

Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/oppo/udp-203...d1QDehG3yMt.99

DARBEE on the 203?
I don't pay much attention to Whathifi reviews for good reasons.

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post #425 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cazzy View Post
I have had the Oppo for about a week, zero drop outs or freezes. I have only used it on the current firmware, so that probably explains my lack of issues. I have watched Deadpool (a lil banding in the beginning), X-Men Apocalypse and The Revenant. I will say, I haven't enjoyed it because of this thread. lol I keep questioning if the picture quality could be better on the 900 and have been very close to buying one to see which player I like better.

I don't have HDR on my projector, so I'm hoping Oppo ups their HDR to SDR game. Does the Panny have a Strip Metadata feature too, or is that only possible with an HD Fury?
Fury only which is why I jumped over.

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post #426 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Scurrah View Post
i just read 2 of the latests reviews on the 203 ,and they said pq is better on 203 ,more natural and sharper ,its funny how some people were saying the exact opposite of that ,so now who do we believe
I use the OPPO as my primary and Panny for backup.
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post #427 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Check this one too @ What Hi-Fi? where they said:

"There is scope to tweak the picture using Oppo’s DARBEE image processing system, but it’s not subtle enough to make any useful improvements. We’d stick to fine-tuning your TV or projector’s picture when needed."



Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/oppo/udp-203...d1QDehG3yMt.99



DARBEE on the 203?


Like when they said that Samsung KS9000 (edge lit) is the better tv when compared to the Sony ZD9 (best FALD ever made). Complete and utter nonsense.


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post #428 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by **Amused** View Post
Like when they said that Samsung KS9000 (edge lit) is the better tv when compared to the Sony ZD9 (best FALD ever made). Complete and utter nonsense.
...or when they wrote that this about the Panasonic UB700 vs the UB900:

"it doesn’t wow us in the way the DMP-UB900 does when watching the same disc.
On the £600 player, the picture just pops – the edges are that bit crisper, there’s a touch more subtlety that adds shine and depth to the picture, and there’s a proper sense of watching a superior picture format.
In contrast, the UB700 looks more like a good conventional Blu-ray player, not a 4K one.
Switch over to the Blu-ray of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, and we’re struck by how much glossier and defined the shiny black interior of Starkiller Base looks on the UB900.
As the First Order stomps about looking menacing, the Stormtrooper uniforms gleam and hallways glisten as if newly cleaned on the UB900; it doesn’t look quite as polished on the UB700."

Total BS! The UB700 has the EXACT same video quality as the UB900 - the only thing that differs is the analogue sound. Given what they now wrote about the UDP-203 - WhatHifi's reviews shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt - they shouldn't be taken seriously at ALL.

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post #429 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Spygg View Post
...or when they wrote that this about the Panasonic UB700 vs the UB900:

"it doesn’t wow us in the way the DMP-UB900 does when watching the same disc.
On the £600 player, the picture just pops – the edges are that bit crisper, there’s a touch more subtlety that adds shine and depth to the picture, and there’s a proper sense of watching a superior picture format.
In contrast, the UB700 looks more like a good conventional Blu-ray player, not a 4K one.
Switch over to the Blu-ray of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, and we’re struck by how much glossier and defined the shiny black interior of Starkiller Base looks on the UB900.
As the First Order stomps about looking menacing, the Stormtrooper uniforms gleam and hallways glisten as if newly cleaned on the UB900; it doesn’t look quite as polished on the UB700."

Total BS! The UB700 has the EXACT same video quality as the UB900 - the only thing that differs is the analogue sound. Given what they now wrote about the UDP-203 - WhatHifi's reviews shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt - they shouldn't be taken seriously at ALL.
Agree they should just stick to informing people of the black Friday deals and leave the reviews to someone else.
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post #430 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 07:19 PM
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Agree they should just stick to informing people of the black Friday deals and leave the reviews to someone else.
When reading reviews always take it as informative.......from there still do your own homework I say.

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post #431 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 08:09 PM
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Everyone agree that owners are your best bet; "unbiased" owners

Most mag reviews are financial advertising; read between the lines, read what's not written, read what's missing, read what's omitted, read what's not compared from the same display @ the same time with others.
So you're biased against magazines and online reviews? Not saying they aren't full of crap, just trying to understand the rules. The goal posts seem to keep moving. Its OK to be biased against anyone who disagrees with you, or just against magazines and online reviewers? But since you're not an owner, you don't qualify as a "best bet", do you? I mean, "everyone agrees".
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post #432 of 971 Old 01-25-2017, 09:16 PM
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Okay. Lets move on to comparisons please.
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post #433 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 06:38 AM
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AVForums review:

https://www.avforums.com/review/oppo...r-review.13335

Quote:
In direct comparisons with the Panasonic UB900 there was no difference in terms of image quality, with both being exceptional players.
Another professional review saying there's no difference, in addition to the multiple submissions of photo evidence throughout these forums that have shown the same results.

Pretty much every professional and every bit of photo evidence has shown that the UDP-203 is every bit as sharp as the UB900. The only disparity thus far comes from the words of some forum members.
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post #434 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 07:00 AM
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So you're saying what, that those of us who have actually had both players in our home theaters and done extensive side-by-side comparisons and see differences are lying?

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post #435 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 07:51 AM
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So you're saying what, that those of us who have actually had both players in our home theaters and done extensive side-by-side comparisons and see differences are lying?
No, I'm stating exactly what I said above: Pretty much every professional and every bit of photo evidence has shown that the UDP-203 is every bit as sharp as the UB900. The only disparity thus far comes from the words of some forum members.

No need to make assumptions of any implications beyond that.
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post #436 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 07:57 AM
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Yes, from people in real-life situations who are actually using both units and have no agenda. If you want to base judgement on reviews and online photos then by all means go right ahead, but nothing beats direct personal experience. YMMV.
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post #437 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 08:03 AM
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So you're saying what, that those of us who have actually had both players in our home theaters and done extensive side-by-side comparisons and see differences are lying?
Close to half of all people will see what they are told to expect to see, hear what they expect to hear. That's why double-blind testing was invented. Are they lying or just human? People perceive images VERY differently and much of this stuff falls to personal preference. From that perspective, almost everything "beats personal experience".
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post #438 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 08:16 AM
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Yes, from people in real-life situations who are actually using both units and have no agenda. If you want to base judgement on reviews and online photos then by all means go right ahead, but nothing beats direct personal experience. YMMV.
I disagree. Pretty much every single impartial piece of evidence beats other people's personal experiences. Personal experience is subject to agenda, bias, expectations, and even physical things like eyesight, fatigue, mood, etc.. I'll take actual evidence over personal opinions any day.
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post #439 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
Close to half of all people will see what they are told to expect to see, hear what they expect to hear. That's why double-blind testing was invented. Are they lying or just human? People perceive images VERY differently and much of this stuff falls to personal preference. From that perspective, almost everything "beats personal experience".
Based on this logic, you might as well discount every "professional" review that doesn't include double-blind testing because it's no better than someone's personal opinion.
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post #440 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 08:20 AM
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I disagree. Pretty much every single impartial piece of evidence beats other people's personal experiences. Personal experience is subject to agenda, bias, expectations, and even physical things like eyesight, fatigue, mood, etc.. I'll take actual evidence over personal opinions any day.
Show me a single piece of impartial evidence comparing these two players.

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post #441 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 08:32 AM
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Based on this logic, you might as well discount every "professional" review that doesn't include double-blind testing because it's no better than someone's personal opinion.
Its got nothing to do with logic, its called science. But I never stated that professional reviews are any different than personal opinion. However, a "professional" may have a history of reliably objective reviews, and provide detailed specs for how the evaluations and comparisons were done. Or a professional might have a history of spewing nonsense. Much like the forum denizens in places like this.
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post #442 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 09:03 AM
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Show me a single piece of impartial evidence comparing these two players.
I think that photographs are about as impartial of evidence as we're ever going to get on here. I'm not saying they can't be manipulated and I'm not saying that they tell the whole story, but I'd lean onto two photos using the same camera and settings over someone's anonymous opinion on a forum.
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post #443 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 09:14 AM
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Its got nothing to do with logic, its called science. But I never stated that professional reviews are any different than personal opinion. However, a "professional" may have a history of reliably objective reviews, and provide detailed specs for how the evaluations and comparisons were done. Or a professional might have a history of spewing nonsense. Much like the forum denizens in places like this.
I never said that you stated professional reviews were any different, I was using the royal you, but the vast majority of them contain absolutely zero science. It's nice to know that you hold your fellow forum members in such high regard BTW. Why even bother participating in discussions here?

I'll tell you this about my comparison of the Oppo and the Panny - I went into the project simply out of curiosity and, based on my 2 year ownership of the BDP-103, fully expected the Oppo to be superior. So I started out with a bias in favor of the Oppo and was very surprised when I came to the opposite conclusion. Whether you believe my evaluation or not is unimportant to me. I merely relayed my experience in a thread designed for that very purpose.

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post #444 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 09:17 AM
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I think that photographs are about as impartial of evidence as we're ever going to get on here. I'm not saying they can't be manipulated and I'm not saying that they tell the whole story, but I'd lean onto two photos using the same camera and settings over someone's anonymous opinion on a forum.
You may be right about that, but lossy compressed images posted on a internet forum are not a good way to judge the quality of Blu-ray transfers, let alone subtle differences between two UHD players. Just my opinion.

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post #445 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 10:08 AM
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Please stop the bickering or we will have to close this thread. User reviews are that user's opinions and experience. If your experiences are different, that is fine, also. User reviews are subjective.


Thank you.

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post #446 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 11:53 AM
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Please stop the bickering or we will have to close this thread. User reviews are that user's opinions and experience. If your experiences are different, that is fine, also. User reviews are subjective.


Thank you.
Best post in the entire thread. I have both and I have my opinions. I think I will just stick to the individual owner threads. Peace

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post #447 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 12:43 PM
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i just read 2 of the latests reviews on the 203 ,and they said pq is better on 203 ,more natural and sharper ,its funny how some people were saying the exact opposite of that ,so now who do we believe

In the end, reviewer's are just another pair of eyes, and another opinion. I've agreed with some reviews over the years, and disagreed with others, until I finally came to the realization that when we are dealing with competing products, each so good that the differences are minor at best, you really need to be in the same room with the reviewer and the reviewed components to see what they're seeing. There are just so many variables in the video chain from one setup to another that it's almost impossible to compare my review versus someone else's review when we are subjectively judging only PQ.

Measurements from established, respected, reviewer's with the proper equipment helps in objective testing of product performance, but when it comes to evaluating PQ with our eyes only, then my opinion is no more valuable than anyone else that might have a different opinion.

So for anyone reading this thread hoping to come away with "the answer" as to which player they should buy, I would first ask you, "what do you know about my skill set and judgment that would make you comfortable picking one of these players based on my opinion?" I gave back the Oppo and kept the Panny, does that really make it the better player?

Given all of the comments to this point, I think it's fair to say both players perform well when it comes to PQ, so I would focus on other factors to decide which player best supports your needs.

Just another opinion.....


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post #448 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 03:00 PM
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I just put in my 2 discs of Jaws into the UB900 and 203 and did a comparison between the players on my projector. On a really microscopic level I would say the UB900 has a tiny little bit more detail definition but to be sure I guess I would need to set up my camera on the tripod and take comparable pictures to be sure.

However comparing the two I found out that the 203 has an issue doing 4:4:4 upsampling. 4:4:4 produces artifacts/color banding especially with very bright tones. I am going to post some pictures in the owner thread.
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post #449 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cleeve View Post
AVForums review:

https://www.avforums.com/review/oppo...r-review.13335



Another professional review saying there's no difference, in addition to the multiple submissions of photo evidence throughout these forums that have shown the same results.

Pretty much every professional and every bit of photo evidence has shown that the UDP-203 is every bit as sharp as the UB900. The only disparity thus far comes from the words of some forum members.
I say as I said before they are nearly identical, it really comes down to features to decide and for that I kept the Oppo.

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post #450 of 971 Old 01-26-2017, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rathbone View Post
I just put in my 2 discs of Jaws into the UB900 and 203 and did a comparison between the players on my projector. On a really microscopic level I would say the UB900 has a tiny little bit more detail definition but to be sure I guess I would need to set up my camera on the tripod and take comparable pictures to be sure.

However comparing the two I found out that the 203 has an issue doing 4:4:4 upsampling. 4:4:4 produces artifacts/color banding especially with very bright tones. I am going to post some pictures in the owner thread.
Panny had this issues with certain displays as well. Can you try and change it to 10bit and/or 422?
I'll test as well.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
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