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post #541 of 971 Old 02-05-2017, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Could someone please explain what strip metadata is ?
It would apply only to UHD titles with HDR.

Over Blu-ray, UHD adds:

  • 2160p (=4K) resolution
  • bigger color space (=BT2020)
  • HDR = High Dynamic Range = more contrast, better shiny bits

Strip Metadata removes the HDR info and sends 4k + BT2020.

Why? Because we have some projectors that will accept 4k and BT2020, and some projectors that do accept HDR but don't handle it well, or projectors that are just not bright enough to handle high dynamic range properly.

Flat panels don't generally need it, although people might experiment.

A problem is that there is no spec on how UHD with HDR is to be used with HDR subtracted or converted to standard dynamic range, so it takes a while for the players to get it right. Also: getting it right for these different devices at the same time is a challenge.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: UDP-203 | BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
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post #542 of 971 Old 02-05-2017, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salacak View Post
Also i read that UB900 has that extra something that UB700 won't have (I can't find the article about it but if i find it i will post here)

Here is i found one
""The difference between the current UB900 and the new UB700 is that the latter lacks analog audio outputs and THX certification. It has a less premium design, a different remote, and a slightly less powerful chroma processor.""
Where does it state that the UB700 has a less powerful chroma processor? Please provide links to verified data because the 2 Pro reviews i have read and also someone who i trust on the UK forums who owns both machines says they are exactly the same processor under the lid, and exactly the same picture no quibble.
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post #543 of 971 Old 02-05-2017, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
Flat panels don't generally need it, although people might experiment.
Fully intend to as soon as Oppo release it, on my Samsung TV, calibrated as close as i can to HDR10, i find titles mastered to 1000 nits are fine, some 4000 nit titles look awful and terribly clipped in really bright scenes, ala Batman V Superman.
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post #544 of 971 Old 02-05-2017, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
It would apply only to UHD titles with HDR.

Over Blu-ray, UHD adds:

  • 2160p (=4K) resolution
  • bigger color space (=BT2020)
  • HDR = High Dynamic Range = more contrast, better shiny bits

Strip Metadata removes the HDR info and sends 4k + BT2020.

Why? Because we have some projectors that will accept 4k and BT2020, and some projectors that do accept HDR but don't handle it well, or projectors that are just not bright enough to handle high dynamic range properly.

Flat panels don't generally need it, although people might experiment.

A problem is that there is no spec on how UHD with HDR is to be used with HDR subtracted or converted to standard dynamic range, so it takes a while for the players to get it right. Also: getting it right for these different devices at the same time is a challenge.

-Bill
Thanks so much

Matt
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post #545 of 971 Old 02-05-2017, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMacFunkin View Post
Where does it state that the UB700 has a less powerful chroma processor? Please provide links to verified data because the 2 Pro reviews i have read and also someone who i trust on the UK forums who owns both machines says they are exactly the same processor under the lid, and exactly the same picture no quibble.
I said i read a review and can't find it from where, what i copied from reviewer i posted, here is again;
""The difference between the current UB900 and the new UB700 is that the latter lacks analog audio outputs and THX certification. It has a less premium design, a different remote, and a slightly less powerful chroma processor.""
According to him UB900 was better when comparing UB700 to UB900. All the other reviews and comparisons saying they have the same PQ so go figure.
Only this guy pointed out the detailed differences between the two and they don't have the same PQ.
Again this brings us back to pro reviewers, some takes extra step and brings more things in and others are like generic simple without much detail review.

Last edited by Salacak; 02-05-2017 at 09:43 AM.
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post #546 of 971 Old 02-05-2017, 10:08 AM
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I ended up pulling the trigger on the ub900. It comes tuesday, then I'll take some time to compare to the 203 and post. Finding it hard to believe there will be that much difference, but it's worth trying given the money I dropped on the new tv and receiver. Curious what the 2017 players will bring, but then would be out of the return period for the 203 anyway. Happy Super Bowl everyone!
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post #547 of 971 Old 02-05-2017, 02:27 PM
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I updated my 900 to the latest FW, and I will admit it now produces a better picture upscaling blu ray to 4k compared to the 203. That update did make an adjustment to upscaling.
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post #548 of 971 Old 02-05-2017, 04:16 PM
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Best Buy rant. Ordered UB900 shipped to my home. They did not double box and it arrived in an incredibly beat up box that rattled when I shook it. What a stupid waste to destroy a $700 player. Returned it unopened and ordered from ABT. Received double boxed in good condition. Been too busy to compare the two this weekend. ughh.
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post #549 of 971 Old 02-08-2017, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMacFunkin View Post
Fully intend to as soon as Oppo release it, on my Samsung TV, calibrated as close as i can to HDR10, i find titles mastered to 1000 nits are fine, some 4000 nit titles look awful and terribly clipped in really bright scenes, ala Batman V Superman.

Do find that HDR raises your black levels?
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post #550 of 971 Old 02-10-2017, 01:15 PM
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
...........The Panny players but with the ability to remove HDR and run UHD, SDR with WCG without the need for an HD Linker or similar, and that's what I really want, so I may just wait.
The Panny already allows you to remove HDR
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post #551 of 971 Old 02-10-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
The Panny already allows you to remove HDR
Yes, but I don't think it allows you to keep WCG does it, it gives you SDR and REC709 and UHD res.

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Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #552 of 971 Old 02-10-2017, 02:42 PM
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Question Wcg

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Originally Posted by gary lightfoot View Post
yes, but i don't think it allows you to keep wcg does it, it gives you sdr and rec709 and uhd res.
wcg?
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post #553 of 971 Old 02-10-2017, 02:49 PM
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Wide Colour Gamut - P3 within 2020 colour space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #554 of 971 Old 02-10-2017, 06:02 PM
 
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Ok so had the Samsung ubd k8500 player n wasn't IMPRESSED, I compared the Martian n life of pi blue ray on ps4, compared to the uhd hdr version on the Samsung player connected to my Samsung 65 KS8500 N yes had all the correct settings on TV n player n made sure hdr was playing and the Martian on some scenes looked better on ps4 n also life of pi was close on the ps4 compared to Samsung.. I returned and am waiting for the Panasonic u 900 to come in on Thursday to see if I notice a bigger difference compared to the Samsung player..
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post #555 of 971 Old 02-10-2017, 11:31 PM
 
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I have the same TV set Samsung 65ks8500 are you saying I'm going to get banding
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post #556 of 971 Old 02-11-2017, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
Yes, but I don't think it allows you to keep WCG does it, it gives you SDR and REC709 and UHD res.
Correct, you need to add the Integral and then it will give you SDR with BT2020 maintained. The Panny cannot do this on its own.
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post #557 of 971 Old 02-11-2017, 06:23 AM
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Correct, you need to add the Integral and then it will give you SDR with BT2020 maintained. The Panny cannot do this on its own.
Or a Linker. Although they work well and are very flexible, a single box solution i.e built into the player would be better, and that's what I'm really after. The Oppo looks like it might do that, but at a cost, but as I'm in no rush I'm going to wait a while and see what comes out over the year and see if one manufacturer does that. A Panasonic with that facility built in will be ideal by the sounds of things.

As it is, if you disable HDR you are left with just the higher res, in which case you may as well stick with something like a cheaper BD Panasonic that will upscale your Blu Rays to 4k - there's not a huge difference in res between a fauK projector and 4K projector when it comes down to visible resolution and 4k source material, and most people don't sit close enough to their TVs to be able to tell the difference between true and upscaled 4k, so if you disable HDR you may as well not bother with UHD disks at all, unless they have other attributes like Atmos that the BD release doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #558 of 971 Old 02-11-2017, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
Or a Linker. Although they work well and are very flexible, a single box solution i.e built into the player would be better, and that's what I'm really after. The Oppo looks like it might do that, but at a cost, but as I'm in no rush I'm going to wait a while and see what comes out over the year and see if one manufacturer does that. A Panasonic with that facility built in will be ideal by the sounds of things.

As it is, if you disable HDR you are left with just the higher res, in which case you may as well stick with something like a cheaper BD Panasonic that will upscale your Blu Rays to 4k - there's not a huge difference in res between a fauK projector and 4K projector when it comes down to visible resolution and 4k source material, and most people don't sit close enough to their TVs to be able to tell the difference between true and upscaled 4k, so if you disable HDR you may as well not bother with UHD disks at all, unless they have other attributes like Atmos that the BD release doesn't.
I agree a single box solution would be ideal and hope the OPPO will get there eventually. Panasonic could probably do it via a firmware upgrade since the player is capable but I don't think we will see that.
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post #559 of 971 Old 02-11-2017, 07:57 AM
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I'm inclined to agree with you unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #560 of 971 Old 02-11-2017, 01:42 PM
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I wonder when we will see a new version of the 900 with DV support.
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post #561 of 971 Old 02-11-2017, 10:48 PM
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Eatly into testing the ub900....on Deadpool 4k not seeing much difference from the 203, though my receiver denon x3300 shows atmos despite not having the speaker setup to do atmos...the white static flashing on the player menu must be my receiver and not the oppo. Will likely take the panny back as I can return it to Big Box whereas I got the oppo online. I do like the interface more with the panny, but used to it as all my other players have been panny...will update once I run more discs on panny...
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post #562 of 971 Old 02-12-2017, 12:24 AM
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Why do you like the interface more?
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post #563 of 971 Old 02-12-2017, 11:12 AM
 
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Will any of these Players get updated to include dynamic hdr later on this yr.. Thats what I want most since I Have a Samsung 8000 set
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post #564 of 971 Old 02-15-2017, 10:15 AM
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After three months of UB900 and one week of UDP203 use, what follows is an explanation of my experience (and the two neighbor's who joined me) with both units connected directly to an LG 65 OLED B6. Sadly, for me, each device has one particular video performance strength that the other lacks. Of course, to the extent that my comments are relevant to anyone they'd only be relevant to owners of the B6 and only as it relates to video performance.

In summary, the 203 does a "better" job upscaling DVD and Bluray content; 4K content appeared identical between the units; the 900 has apps on board for streaming services (processed via Panny's 4K High-Precision Chroma Processor), the 203 doesn't, and one cannot use the 203's processors to upscale or in any way modify HDR/DV streaming content inputted via its HDMI-IN port. This last point turned out to be important to me and might be equally so for other B6 owners. I found that using the 900 to stream HDR/DV content reveals a superior HDR/DV image than what the B6 can do on its own. Most of the HDR and all of the Dolby Vision content consumed on a 4K TV originate from streaming services.

Please note that initially I held an irrational bias in favor of the performance of the UB900 in part due to the many so-called "reviews" of the 203 from various author/outlets appearing in Forbes, Techhive, HomeTheaterReview, WhatHiFI, et al that claimed among other subjective superlatives that the 203 was "The Best We've Seen" or that it reflected "The Return of the King" and other similar attention grabbing headlines. Maybe I'm territorial or protective of the machine/company that I bought into first or perhaps just cynical after having been burned so many times relying on a "professional" reviewer's opinion to aid a purchase decision but either way these headlines rubbed me the wrong way and I so felt the need to defend the capabilities of the 900. As I said, completely irrational. However, my defensiveness softened after I critically examined each author's review. It was apparent that their 900 vs. 203 comparisons (assuming they even did a head-to-head comparison – most did not) weren't conducted as credible or reliable tests per se, i.e. where the reviewer set up two identical 4K monitors side-by-side that played or streamed duplicate copies of the same content, simultaneously, and then sought the opinion of additional reviewers during these tests.

For those who might care, here is my take on what "professional" reviewer's have to say, if anything, about the 203 vs 900 debate:

Jon Jacobi's 12/23/16 "review" (i.e. essentially a website post masquerading as a review) at TechHive declared, "There's no question about it: The … 203 is the best 4k Ultra … player you can buy." and yet incredibly makes his claim on a LeEco monitor that was "weak on peak brightness" that "made things a bit muddy". Jon never bothered to do a head-to-head comparison of the 203 vs 900. Readers are simply expected to take his word that the 203 is "the best". To be fair, Jon is a "freelance contributor" (aka a guy with zero qualifications who thought it'd be fun to take a stab at writing a review). I've read so much better from general audience posts on AVS Forum and elsewhere. He is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content and so that element doesn't even enter into his "assessment".

Greg Tarr's 12/30/16 HDGURU "review" is also nothing more than a website post masquerading as a review. He too failed to compare the 203 to the 900 and instead goes presumably head-to-head vs. a Samsung K8500 (on his 55 inch LeEco display) ultimately declaring the 203 "the best Ultra HD Blu-ray player on the market" even though incredibly he acknowledged "noticeable film grain and background noise" attributed to his LeEco. I don't think he actually did a head-to-head but instead was relying on his recollection of how the Samsung 8500 has previously displayed content. He too is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content.

What HiFi?'s 1/25/17 review claims that the 203 "sets a new home cinema standard" and is "the new 4K Blu-ray player of choice." To its credit, WHF did review the 900 and does make some attempt at comparison but again readers are left to believe that the comparison is based on recollected memory – it's not a valid head-to-head. We have no idea on what display this review occurred and/or if it occurred on the same display as the 900. Interesting to note that its 900 review happened way back on March 15, 2016. Draw your own conclusions about the credibility of this website's claims. As with the others, this review is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content or the limits of the 203 in the same regard.

John Archer's 1/27/17 review at Forbes.com declares, "OPPO UDP-203 . . .The Return of the King" and "the 203 simply sets a new (4K) picture quality benchmark". He connected the 900 and 203 to his Samsung KS9800 monitor and toggled between them using as his reference a duplicate copy of 4K Deadpool. That's the extent of his head-to-head for 4K material. I guess that might be sufficient and it's a more reliable experiment than those conducted by any other reviewer but still – for a "professional" review one expects more. As for his DVD/Bluray upscaling comparison, he claims that both his Samsung TV as well as the 900 put out a better image than the 203. That's a Return of the King??? Unlike the other reviewer, he correctly points out the 203's limitation re processing streaming HDR/DV content but as with the others, his review is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content.

Adrienne Maxwell's 1/2/17 review at HomeTheaterReview.com does not even bother to compare the 203 against the 900 because he had not previously reviewed the Panny. So the 203 is compared against the Samsung and Phillips 4K devices, and again we are asked to rely on Adriennes' recollection of his prior reviews of those two devices but curiously the only prior review accessible online is the one for the Phillips; the "review" of the Samsung is MIA. He does test the 203 with a variety of different displays – OLED, projector, and an older 2k monitor. He uses multiple 4K, Bluray and DVD disks for testing. He too is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content. Not sure why he even bothers to call his post a review. It's more of a spec comparison piece.

So, now onto my personal observations (which were confirmed by two of my neighbors kind enough to endure the testing).

Upscaling of both DVD and Bluray content is "better" to my eyes with the 203. I viewed nine titles representative of a variety of genres (Logan's Run, Apocalypse Now, American Graffiti, Singing in the Rain, Citizen Kane, Planet of the Apes (original), Cinema Paridiso, Casablanca, Star Wars - A New Hope). I confined my examination to 2-5 minute running sections of each film and went back and forth for up to 30 minutes per section. Some of the films I had duplicates of and was able to toggle back and forth between inputs for a quicker comparison.

An example of how the two units differ for Bluray upscale is a scene from SW-ANH where at the beginning of the film we see the underside of the Imperial Battleship float across the screen from right to left. With the 203, the image appears 3-D; the 900 shows it much flatter. The difference is akin to watching something that is frame interpolated vs. non-interpolated. There is a depth to the 203's image not present with the 900. This observation was consistent no matter how I manipulated controls on both the 900 and B6. It's not that the image looks frame interpolated but I am using that as an example of how noticeable is the difference produced by the two devices. It's the depth of image that caught my attention. This result was consistent across all of the other Blurays played.

A good example of how the two units differ for DVD upscale is from a scene in Logan's Run where Logan enters the New You medical facility and has a conversation with the attending doctor. That scene, among many others, was revealed more clearly with less artifact/grain on the 203 than on the 900. This image just looked cleaner and clearer, more vibrant, realistic. I would judge this result to be not as dramatic as the Bluray results but noticeable enough that all of us could see it and preferred the 203 image. This result was consistent across all of the other DVDs played.

I played the nine 4K titles that I currently have – The Revenant, Star Trek, Star Trek Beyond, X-Men First Class, X-Men Apocalypse, X-Men Days of Future Past, The Martian, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and Extreme Adventure Collection. Despite best efforts, I could not detect any noticeable difference between the images output by either player. If they were there, they were not significant enough to call out our attention.

Using the 900 to stream UHD/DV content to the B6 makes the images on screen appear more realistic than when using the B6's on board streaming services. The difference is akin to looking at someone through a plate glass window versus looking through the same window without the glass. The 900 removes the glass. One of my neighbors said it made him feel uneasy watching some scenes because he felt like a peeping Tom.

The net takeaway for me was to return the 900 and wait for its lower priced brother to arrive in the US. I would have kept it longer but BB's return policy for its Elite Plus members had an expiration date of 2/14. I couldn’t justify spending $800 for a streaming device even though the images produced are hauntingly striking. When a Panny player comes out that hits the sub-$400 mark and includes the 4K High-Precision Chroma Processor, that's when I will return to its stable of players. I am not happy about returning the 900 but a choice had to be made quickly.

Note to OPPO. If you deliver a machine that does what the 203 does to upscale DVD/Blurays and adds the capability to stream HDR/DV content as good as the 900, then you have found the ultimate HD video platform. I know that you test on an LG OLED device, so you can see what it is that I see. On the other hand, I just started a 60-day trial of the 203. So Panny, if in the interim you put out a machine that can do what the 203 does upscaling-wise while preserving your streaming capabilities, then the real race for customers can begin. Fingers crossed either way.

Again, my interests are rather slim. I care more about the video experience on my B6. I'd be curious to hear if other B6 owners who've done a similar comparison to me have come to the same or different conclusions. As noted above, there doesn't seem to be any consistency among the "professional" reviewers.
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post #565 of 971 Old 02-15-2017, 12:32 PM
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I found that using the 900 to stream HDR/DV content reveals a superior HDR/DV image than what the B6 can do on its own. Most of the HDR and all of the Dolby Vision content consumed on a 4K TV originate from streaming services.
The panny can not stream DV HDR, as it does not have a chip capable of DV HDR. It can only stream HDR10. Right now, the only way to stream DV HDR on the B6 is via the interal apps. The OPPO will be capable of playing DV HDR UHD discs some time this year. The 900 will never be able to do that.
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post #566 of 971 Old 02-15-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sjerseydad22 View Post
After three months of UB900 and one week of UDP203 use, what follows is an explanation of my experience (and the two neighbor's who joined me) with both units connected directly to an LG 65 OLED B6. Sadly, for me, each device has one particular video performance strength that the other lacks. Of course, to the extent that my comments are relevant to anyone they'd only be relevant to owners of the B6 and only as it relates to video performance.

In summary, the 203 does a "better" job upscaling DVD and Bluray content; 4K content appeared identical between the units; the 900 has apps on board for streaming services (processed via Panny's 4K High-Precision Chroma Processor), the 203 doesn't, and one cannot use the 203's processors to upscale or in any way modify HDR/DV streaming content inputted via its HDMI-IN port. This last point turned out to be important to me and might be equally so for other B6 owners. I found that using the 900 to stream HDR/DV content reveals a superior HDR/DV image than what the B6 can do on its own. Most of the HDR and all of the Dolby Vision content consumed on a 4K TV originate from streaming services.

Please note that initially I held an irrational bias in favor of the performance of the UB900 in part due to the many so-called "reviews" of the 203 from various author/outlets appearing in Forbes, Techhive, HomeTheaterReview, WhatHiFI, et al that claimed among other subjective superlatives that the 203 was "The Best We've Seen" or that it reflected "The Return of the King" and other similar attention grabbing headlines. Maybe I'm territorial or protective of the machine/company that I bought into first or perhaps just cynical after having been burned so many times relying on a "professional" reviewer's opinion to aid a purchase decision but either way these headlines rubbed me the wrong way and I so felt the need to defend the capabilities of the 900. As I said, completely irrational. However, my defensiveness softened after I critically examined each author's review. It was apparent that their 900 vs. 203 comparisons (assuming they even did a head-to-head comparison – most did not) weren't conducted as credible or reliable tests per se, i.e. where the reviewer set up two identical 4K monitors side-by-side that played or streamed duplicate copies of the same content, simultaneously, and then sought the opinion of additional reviewers during these tests.

For those who might care, here is my take on what "professional" reviewer's have to say, if anything, about the 203 vs 900 debate:

Jon Jacobi's 12/23/16 "review" (i.e. essentially a website post masquerading as a review) at TechHive declared, "There's no question about it: The … 203 is the best 4k Ultra … player you can buy." and yet incredibly makes his claim on a LeEco monitor that was "weak on peak brightness" that "made things a bit muddy". Jon never bothered to do a head-to-head comparison of the 203 vs 900. Readers are simply expected to take his word that the 203 is "the best". To be fair, Jon is a "freelance contributor" (aka a guy with zero qualifications who thought it'd be fun to take a stab at writing a review). I've read so much better from general audience posts on AVS Forum and elsewhere. He is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content and so that element doesn't even enter into his "assessment".

Greg Tarr's 12/30/16 HDGURU "review" is also nothing more than a website post masquerading as a review. He too failed to compare the 203 to the 900 and instead goes presumably head-to-head vs. a Samsung K8500 (on his 55 inch LeEco display) ultimately declaring the 203 "the best Ultra HD Blu-ray player on the market" even though incredibly he acknowledged "noticeable film grain and background noise" attributed to his LeEco. I don't think he actually did a head-to-head but instead was relying on his recollection of how the Samsung 8500 has previously displayed content. He too is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content.

What HiFi?'s 1/25/17 review claims that the 203 "sets a new home cinema standard" and is "the new 4K Blu-ray player of choice." To its credit, WHF did review the 900 and does make some attempt at comparison but again readers are left to believe that the comparison is based on recollected memory – it's not a valid head-to-head. We have no idea on what display this review occurred and/or if it occurred on the same display as the 900. Interesting to note that its 900 review happened way back on March 15, 2016. Draw your own conclusions about the credibility of this website's claims. As with the others, this review is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content or the limits of the 203 in the same regard.

John Archer's 1/27/17 review at Forbes.com declares, "OPPO UDP-203 . . .The Return of the King" and "the 203 simply sets a new (4K) picture quality benchmark". He connected the 900 and 203 to his Samsung KS9800 monitor and toggled between them using as his reference a duplicate copy of 4K Deadpool. That's the extent of his head-to-head for 4K material. I guess that might be sufficient and it's a more reliable experiment than those conducted by any other reviewer but still – for a "professional" review one expects more. As for his DVD/Bluray upscaling comparison, he claims that both his Samsung TV as well as the 900 put out a better image than the 203. That's a Return of the King??? Unlike the other reviewer, he correctly points out the 203's limitation re processing streaming HDR/DV content but as with the others, his review is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content.

Adrienne Maxwell's 1/2/17 review at HomeTheaterReview.com does not even bother to compare the 203 against the 900 because he had not previously reviewed the Panny. So the 203 is compared against the Samsung and Phillips 4K devices, and again we are asked to rely on Adriennes' recollection of his prior reviews of those two devices but curiously the only prior review accessible online is the one for the Phillips; the "review" of the Samsung is MIA. He does test the 203 with a variety of different displays – OLED, projector, and an older 2k monitor. He uses multiple 4K, Bluray and DVD disks for testing. He too is completely unaware of how the 900 affects streaming HDR/DV content. Not sure why he even bothers to call his post a review. It's more of a spec comparison piece.

So, now onto my personal observations (which were confirmed by two of my neighbors kind enough to endure the testing).

Upscaling of both DVD and Bluray content is "better" to my eyes with the 203. I viewed nine titles representative of a variety of genres (Logan's Run, Apocalypse Now, American Graffiti, Singing in the Rain, Citizen Kane, Planet of the Apes (original), Cinema Paridiso, Casablanca, Star Wars - A New Hope). I confined my examination to 2-5 minute running sections of each film and went back and forth for up to 30 minutes per section. Some of the films I had duplicates of and was able to toggle back and forth between inputs for a quicker comparison.

An example of how the two units differ for Bluray upscale is a scene from SW-ANH where at the beginning of the film we see the underside of the Imperial Battleship float across the screen from right to left. With the 203, the image appears 3-D; the 900 shows it much flatter. The difference is akin to watching something that is frame interpolated vs. non-interpolated. There is a depth to the 203's image not present with the 900. This observation was consistent no matter how I manipulated controls on both the 900 and B6. It's not that the image looks frame interpolated but I am using that as an example of how noticeable is the difference produced by the two devices. It's the depth of image that caught my attention. This result was consistent across all of the other Blurays played.

A good example of how the two units differ for DVD upscale is from a scene in Logan's Run where Logan enters the New You medical facility and has a conversation with the attending doctor. That scene, among many others, was revealed more clearly with less artifact/grain on the 203 than on the 900. This image just looked cleaner and clearer, more vibrant, realistic. I would judge this result to be not as dramatic as the Bluray results but noticeable enough that all of us could see it and preferred the 203 image. This result was consistent across all of the other DVDs played.

I played the nine 4K titles that I currently have – The Revenant, Star Trek, Star Trek Beyond, X-Men First Class, X-Men Apocalypse, X-Men Days of Future Past, The Martian, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and Extreme Adventure Collection. Despite best efforts, I could not detect any noticeable difference between the images output by either player. If they were there, they were not significant enough to call out our attention.

Using the 900 to stream UHD/DV content to the B6 makes the images on screen appear more realistic than when using the B6's on board streaming services. The difference is akin to looking at someone through a plate glass window versus looking through the same window without the glass. The 900 removes the glass. One of my neighbors said it made him feel uneasy watching some scenes because he felt like a peeping Tom.

The net takeaway for me was to return the 900 and wait for its lower priced brother to arrive in the US. I would have kept it longer but BB's return policy for its Elite Plus members had an expiration date of 2/14. I couldn’t justify spending $800 for a streaming device even though the images produced are hauntingly striking. When a Panny player comes out that hits the sub-$400 mark and includes the 4K High-Precision Chroma Processor, that's when I will return to its stable of players. I am not happy about returning the 900 but a choice had to be made quickly.

Note to OPPO. If you deliver a machine that does what the 203 does to upscale DVD/Blurays and adds the capability to stream HDR/DV content as good as the 900, then you have found the ultimate HD video platform. I know that you test on an LG OLED device, so you can see what it is that I see. On the other hand, I just started a 60-day trial of the 203. So Panny, if in the interim you put out a machine that can do what the 203 does upscaling-wise while preserving your streaming capabilities, then the real race for customers can begin. Fingers crossed either way.

Again, my interests are rather slim. I care more about the video experience on my B6. I'd be curious to hear if other B6 owners who've done a similar comparison to me have come to the same or different conclusions. As noted above, there doesn't seem to be any consistency among the "professional" reviewers.
Did your Panny have the newest update firmware - Another person's comparison between the two commented that after the most recent Panny FW update, the Panny 's Blu-Ray to 4k upscale was better than the OPPO?
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post #567 of 971 Old 02-15-2017, 03:10 PM
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i think oppo 203 is better than ub900 in BD upscaling. the problem with ub900 is $699 price, 203 is better deal with $549 since it will have DV coming up which Panny will never have. i have both players got ub900 under $500 when i got my LG C6. i am still thinking of returning it to get 2nd 203 but not sure yet few weeks left to decide. for the price i paid for ub900 i might keep it. one advantage for me personally is Ub900 has small foot print and it fits behind tv on my Fireplace TV stand, i do not have place to put it anywhere else, 203 will not fit in that space. my Ub900 is connected to Samsung 65Js9000.

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post #568 of 971 Old 02-15-2017, 05:56 PM
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Is anyone here using any of the current 4K Blu-ray players with a 4K TV that does NOT have HDR capability?

I have a Vizio M75-C1 that I purchased new in September 2015. I knew when I bought it that it doesn't have HDR (nor will it). But our previous HD TV had just given up the ghost and I wasn't going to wait another year or two to get an HDR 4K set.

I've been buying the 4K versions of some of my Blu-ray titles to "future proof" those purchases. Just mostly the blockbuster films. I don't yet have a 4K Blu-ray player to go with them.

Would it be a waste of money to get a 4K Blu-ray player now to go with my non-HDR 4K TV? I am VERY pleased with the upscaled image from my standard Blu-ray player (the TV is doing the upscaling, not the player).

Or, would one of the inexpensive 4K players be worth the investment, despite the lack of HDR? Since I've been a Panasonic player fan for years, I was initially tempted by the U900. But the price is outrageous and doesn't seem to be in any hurry to drop. I'm thinking maybe the Philips 4K player might be a good way to enjoy my current 4K titles without investing too much money. Then, later, when I finally get a 4K TV with HDR, then I can consider the Oppo or a more expensive player.

What do you guys think?

Money isn't so much the object (I can afford to buy all of them) but I don't like wasting money. Basically, which player would give me the maximum bang for the buck now, based on the current non HDR TV. Or, is it a waste of money?

Thanks!

Mark
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post #569 of 971 Old 02-15-2017, 06:00 PM
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I have hooked up the Oppo, Panasonic, and Samsung to my Sony 850A. All 3 have worked fine. I enjoy the increased resolution of the UHD discs.

S~

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post #570 of 971 Old 02-15-2017, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post
I have hooked up the Oppo, Panasonic, and Samsung to my Sony 850A. All 3 have worked fine. I enjoy the increased resolution of the UHD discs.

S~
So all 3 have same video quality? Or the diffferrnce is small ? Thx
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