OFFICIAL Sony UBP-X800 Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 9896 Old 03-17-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tim3320070 View Post
Would you mind testing picture quality differences (if any) between the internal B6 streamer and the X800 with Netflix HDR/DV content? Sandler's (dumb) movie The Do Over is a nice test for quality. I feel sometimes my Philips UHD player produces a cleaner picture with Netflix HDR vs my B6 using DV.
I just did a comparison of Do-Over (really dumb) movie with Dolby Vision on Netflix with LG B6 internal Netflix Player that supports Dolby Vision vs. Sony UBP-X800 Netflix player w/o DV. The B6 with DV seems more 3D looking and brighter with a touch of soap opera effect. The UBP-X800 seemed more movie like and was better at showing fine details, but was a little darker. I like the wow factor of the B6 with DV for demos, but the Sony seemed more true to details. Hard call, it really depends on your taste (just Do-Over makes for a lame movie watching experience).
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post #992 of 9896 Old 03-17-2017, 07:51 PM
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Quadro-Surround label DVD-As won't play

Finally found an issue with the Sony that I have not had before with Oppo or others. I play a lot of music discs. A little DVD-A label called Quadro-Surround has sold several quad pacific titles. They are quite good and well known in the quad community. Any way, the Sony player would not play any of them. I would get a question mark in the disc icon in the main menu and when I tried to play the disc I would get a message about unrecognizable disc. With Oppo it would be no problem- contact them send them a disc and a update would follow, but with Sony I have no idea how to proceed.
Any thoughts?
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post #993 of 9896 Old 03-17-2017, 08:38 PM
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Front displays and upscaling with 850D

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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
I hate having needless lights distracting from my viewing experience, so I'm with you on this. Plus, mine is in a closet anyhow. lol

Interesting points, thanks for the feedback on the digital display. I have noticed some of the more premium players include a digital display, which makes me wonder if its absence on the majority of players is more of a cost-cutting move (with the secondary benefit of appealing to those who don't like to see a display on at all times). Nevertheless, I do agree that pressing the display button on the remote is easy enough, especially if it provides a more data-rich "diaplay" than a conventional digital display.

My next set of questions:
Anyone have experience with how well the UBP-X800 upscales 1080p in comparison to the upscaling built into the Sony 850D series televisions? I have been very happy with how well my 65" 850D upscales blu rays and DVD's played on my 2009 Panasonic blu ray player, so I am wondering if it's worth keeping that dinosaur around for playing HD blu rays and standard def DVD's while buying the UBP-X800 purely for the 4K discs.
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post #994 of 9896 Old 03-17-2017, 09:14 PM
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jiffypooh, I found the picture on blu-ray discs on the X800 a little soft using its 4k upscaling setting. So I turned it off on the Sony and allowed my Vizio D58u UHD TV to do the upscaling and the details popped out. The Vizio uses a Spatial Scaling Engine in combination with their proprietary VM50 Ultra HD Processing Engine that upscales blu-rays to near UHD disc quality. I spot checked my JURASSIC PARK blu-ray disc and it looked fabulous with a very detailed near 4k quality picture. My previous set up was a Sony BDP-S790 blu-ray player and the Vizio D58u and I was very pleased with the picture quality but I would rate the combo of the X800 and D58u as noticeably better. My friend at Best Buy told me that the upscaling engines on the newest UHD TVs are usually better than those found in blu-ray and UHD blu-ray players and that has been my experience also. Your mileage may vary.
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post #995 of 9896 Old 03-17-2017, 09:49 PM
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Upscaling with Sony 850D

Appreciate the input, pjmontana! However, I worry about the "apples and oranges" issue, since we are comparing your Vizio D58U to a Sony 850D. As a counterpoint to the superiority of upscaling engines on TV's, the "most helpful" review on the Best Buy website for the UBP-X800 describes how the player is superior in upscaling compared to the Sony 940D (this anecdote is mentioned in the comments section of the review). I suppose this could be translated more readily to the 850D, but I am curious about what other Sony TV owners, particularly the 850D series, think about the upscaling comparison.
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post #996 of 9896 Old 03-17-2017, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jiffypooh View Post
Appreciate the input, pjmontana! However, I worry about the "apples and oranges" issue, since we are comparing your Vizio D58U to a Sony 850D. As a counterpoint to the superiority of upscaling engines on TV's, the "most helpful" review on the Best Buy website for the UBP-X800 describes how the player is superior in upscaling compared to the Sony 940D (this anecdote is mentioned in the comments section of the review). I suppose this could be translated more readily to the 850D, but I am curious about what other Sony TV owners, particularly the 850D series, think about the upscaling comparison.
I was under the impression that the XBR 940D had the better processing? It has the X1 chipset.
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post #997 of 9896 Old 03-17-2017, 10:05 PM
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I was under the impression that the XBR 940D had the better processing? It has the X1 chipset.
The website for Sony suggests that they both have the same chipsets. I assume that's correct?
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post #998 of 9896 Old 03-17-2017, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Based_legend24 View Post
Much better. More saturated colors and it's much quieter. Less banding.

I didn't notice any banding.
Whenever I would play a uhd on the one s, I would experience banding. Maybe it's just my 930d
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post #999 of 9896 Old 03-17-2017, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pjmontana View Post
jiffypooh, I found the picture on blu-ray discs on the X800 a little soft using its 4k upscaling setting. So I turned it off on the Sony and allowed my Vizio D58u UHD TV to do the upscaling and the details popped out. The Vizio uses a Spatial Scaling Engine in combination with their proprietary VM50 Ultra HD Processing Engine that upscales blu-rays to near UHD disc quality. I spot checked my JURASSIC PARK blu-ray disc and it looked fabulous with a very detailed near 4k quality picture. My previous set up was a Sony BDP-S790 blu-ray player and the Vizio D58u and I was very pleased with the picture quality but I would rate the combo of the X800 and D58u as noticeably better. My friend at Best Buy told me that the upscaling engines on the newest UHD TVs are usually better than those found in blu-ray and UHD blu-ray players and that has been my experience also. Your mileage may vary.
Were you using direct or auto on the players picture settings? Auto can apply dnr which will can give it a "soft look" if it detects film grain.
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post #1000 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 06:18 AM
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My X800 is coming from Amazon in a few days. I'm really looking forward to comparing the video quality between this player and my Oppo 93 on standard blu-ray on my Sony 940D display. Wondering if there will be a "synergy" with the 2 Sony devices???

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post #1001 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by terracode View Post
I just did a comparison of Do-Over (really dumb) movie with Dolby Vision on Netflix with LG B6 internal Netflix Player that supports Dolby Vision vs. Sony UBP-X800 Netflix player w/o DV. The B6 with DV seems more 3D looking and brighter with a touch of soap opera effect. The UBP-X800 seemed more movie like and was better at showing fine details, but was a little darker. I like the wow factor of the B6 with DV for demos, but the Sony seemed more true to details. Hard call, it really depends on your taste (just Do-Over makes for a lame movie watching experience).
Soap opera effect has to do with the settings for the TV. I know with my Sony TV there are several different memory settings for apps (depending on the type of app). And different settings for each hdmi input. So your settings were probably not identical between the TV Netflix app and the HDMI input the x800 is on.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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post #1002 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 08:14 AM
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I'm seriously considering making this my first UHD player and was hoping to get clarification about a few things. Reading through this thread, I thought I saw a user comment that they couldn't get Dolby TrueHD to play in MKV container via USB. Can anyone confirm this? What about streaming MKV with TrueHD to the player? Does it just play the DD core?

Also, what about subtitles in MKV container? Are they selectable when playing back a file via USB, and if so, what do they look like? Do subtitles work well via DLNA media server?

The reason I ask is because I normally play files directly from my computer connected to my receiver via HDMI (home theatre PC type setup) and was hoping this player would take over in that deparment. TrueHD isn't a huge concern, but properly displaying subtitles in MKV files is a big one. Ideally, I'd load a file on a USB stick and play it that way and be able to select the appropriate subtitle track in the MKV container (or even a specific audio track when applicable). DLNA is a secondary option to get subs to display properly if the MKV via USB isn't available.

Thanks for any help, and a picture of the player showing subs from an MKV file would be nice if possible!
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post #1003 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jiffypooh View Post
Interesting points, thanks for the feedback on the digital display. I have noticed some of the more premium players include a digital display, which makes me wonder if its absence on the majority of players is more of a cost-cutting move (with the secondary benefit of appealing to those who don't like to see a display on at all times). Nevertheless, I do agree that pressing the display button on the remote is easy enough, especially if it provides a more data-rich "diaplay" than a conventional digital display.

My next set of questions:
Anyone have experience with how well the UBP-X800 upscales 1080p in comparison to the upscaling built into the Sony 850D series televisions? I have been very happy with how well my 65" 850D upscales blu rays and DVD's played on my 2009 Panasonic blu ray player, so I am wondering if it's worth keeping that dinosaur around for playing HD blu rays and standard def DVD's while buying the UBP-X800 purely for the 4K discs.
When you're watching something and want to be completely immersed in it, the last thing you need is a "clock" that distracts you.

As far as upscaling, I previously posted that playing Avatar in native resolution (allowing my 940D to upscale) versus upscaling the content in the X800 seemed to provide no difference in resolution, clarity, color, etc. So, I would say that the upscaler in the player is very good and on par with what's in my 940D. I can't comment specifically on how that compares to the set you have, although though Sony says the internals are the same.
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post #1004 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by multiformous View Post
I'm seriously considering making this my first UHD player and was hoping to get clarification about a few things. Reading through this thread, I thought I saw a user comment that they couldn't get Dolby TrueHD to play in MKV container via USB. Can anyone confirm this? What about streaming MKV with TrueHD to the player? Does it just play the DD core?

Also, what about subtitles in MKV container? Are they selectable when playing back a file via USB, and if so, what do they look like? Do subtitles work well via DLNA media server?

The reason I ask is because I normally play files directly from my computer connected to my receiver via HDMI (home theatre PC type setup) and was hoping this player would take over in that deparment. TrueHD isn't a huge concern, but properly displaying subtitles in MKV files is a big one. Ideally, I'd load a file on a USB stick and play it that way and be able to select the appropriate subtitle track in the MKV container (or even a specific audio track when applicable). DLNA is a secondary option to get subs to display properly if the MKV via USB isn't available.

Thanks for any help, and a picture of the player showing subs from an MKV file would be nice if possible!
From what I tried it didn't play the audio from those DD codecs. DTS codecs were fine though. Like previous years it looks like Sony didn't pay the license fee to allow the decoding.
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post #1005 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jiffypooh View Post
As a counterpoint to the superiority of upscaling engines on TV's, the "most helpful" review on the Best Buy website for the UBP-X800 describes how the player is superior in upscaling compared to the Sony 940D (this anecdote is mentioned in the comments section of the review).
One (professional) review I read states the UBP-X800 doesn't oversharpen the image when scaling which they found to be the case with a lot of other players/devices. Leaving a more natural image with less jaggies. To a large degree what looks "best" is a matter of personal preference...
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post #1006 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by multiformous View Post
I'm seriously considering making this my first UHD player and was hoping to get clarification about a few things. Reading through this thread, I thought I saw a user comment that they couldn't get Dolby TrueHD to play in MKV container via USB. Can anyone confirm this? What about streaming MKV with TrueHD to the player? Does it just play the DD core?

Also, what about subtitles in MKV container? Are they selectable when playing back a file via USB, and if so, what do they look like? Do subtitles work well via DLNA media server?

The reason I ask is because I normally play files directly from my computer connected to my receiver via HDMI (home theatre PC type setup) and was hoping this player would take over in that deparment. TrueHD isn't a huge concern, but properly displaying subtitles in MKV files is a big one. Ideally, I'd load a file on a USB stick and play it that way and be able to select the appropriate subtitle track in the MKV container (or even a specific audio track when applicable). DLNA is a secondary option to get subs to display properly if the MKV via USB isn't available.

Thanks for any help, and a picture of the player showing subs from an MKV file would be nice if possible!
Dolby TrueHD will not play in MKV containers but will play in M2TS containers. It can play the core track from a MKV though.

Subtitles do not play in MKV containers in most cases. You can use a DLNA server like serviio to add them back on the fly.
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post #1007 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by marklivia View Post
My X800 is coming from Amazon in a few days. I'm really looking forward to comparing the video quality between this player and my Oppo 93 on standard blu-ray on my Sony 940D display. Wondering if there will be a "synergy" with the 2 Sony devices???
I have the X8000 and the 940D and am very happy with video quality.
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post #1008 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 09:46 AM
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That's a bummer about subtitles in MKV via USB. (I know this isn't really the place to ask, but does the Oppo UDP-203 display subs from MKV via USB? My experience with the BDP-83 is that they displayed them in plain white text that was basically unreadable during bright scenes.)

Also, does anyone know if this play can 5.1 (or some other multichannel format) FLAC audio files via USB?
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post #1009 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 10:22 AM
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Soap opera effect has to do with the settings for the TV. I know with my Sony TV there are several different memory settings for apps (depending on the type of app). And different settings for each hdmi input. So your settings were probably not identical between the TV Netflix app and the HDMI input the x800 is on.

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Yes... I am well acquainted with what soap opera effect is. I make sure all my inputs (Incl. mode for built-in TV apps) are set to 0 for deblur and 2 for dejudder on the LG B6. I re-verified this prior to posting to make sure inputs have same video settings. My assessment still stands that in my eyes, X800 Netflix app is more visually pleasing to the eye than the Netflix TV app with DV for the Do-Over movie.
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post #1010 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by multiformous View Post
That's a bummer about subtitles in MKV via USB. (I know this isn't really the place to ask, but does the Oppo UDP-203 display subs from MKV via USB? My experience with the BDP-83 is that they displayed them in plain white text that was basically unreadable during bright scenes.)

Also, does anyone know if this play can 5.1 (or some other multichannel format) FLAC audio files via USB?
I believe the Oppo can deal with subs just fine.

The X800 can playback multi channel FLAC audio files (up to 192KHz/24b) and output multi channel PCM to your receiver.
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post #1011 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post
I believe the Oppo can deal with subs just fine.

The X800 can playback multi channel FLAC audio files (up to 192KHz/24b) and output multi channel PCM to your receiver.
One of the main things I'm looking for in a UHD player is the ability to play MKVs via USB and be able to select the subs contained in the file itself (not external .srt or anything). As others have mentioned, using a media server with the UBP-X800 would work for this. However, my computer is in the same room as my receiver/TV -- and since I ain't movin' it anytime soon, I was hoping to be able to shut it off and play movies via USB (with subs).

I know there are plenty of other ways to do this, but I was looking for an all-in-one disc/file player solution. I assumed the Oppo would do all of this, but the Sony player looked like an extremely attractive prospect. The apparent lack of support for subtitles in MKVs played via USB is a bummer, as this would be one of the main way I'd like to play movies that aren't on disc. I guess the Oppo UDP-203 remains the best option, though it's a little pricey here in Canada.
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post #1012 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 11:47 AM
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The Oppo is best in class when playing files in both video and audio. From network access to interface. If that's important to you, I'd get the Oppo but they have some kinks to work out in disc playback apparently and it'll cost you $250 more. The X800 can play files well for the most part but the interface and user experience is garbage and no Smb support sucks. Luckily I have the best of both worlds when combined with my Oppo 103D.

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post #1013 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 11:52 AM
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I think there were a few on here that were saying Netflix could not play 4K HDR well I just watch the first two episodes of Iron Fist and it plays fine! Also I think the PQ is the best of the 4 marvel shows so far in my opinion I don't notice the grain as much as the other show. I like the show so far it's slow but building after the first two episodes.
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post #1014 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cyclones22 View Post
The Oppo is best in class when playing files in both video and audio. From network access to interface. If that's important to you, I'd get the Oppo but they have some kinks to work out in disc playback apparently and it'll cost you $250 more. The X800 can play files well for the most part but the interface and user experience is garbage and no Smb support sucks. Luckily I have the best of both worlds when combined with my Oppo 103D.

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As you stated, file playback is surprisingly good. Sony have taken steps to improve it, but its not perfect, and where it mainly falls short is PGS subtitles in MKVs. Other than that it pretty much plays back everything else including newer HEVC/H265 files. In some instances you do have to take steps to work around things. So if TrueHD is important, you need to put it in a M2TS container.

In terms of user experience, quite honestly I don't really see any difference between the Oppo and this player. They basically present the contents in a list structure. When using DLNA, the Sony doesn't need to build a index, where as the Oppo does. This can be a take a fair bit of time if you have a large number of files in one folder which always use to annoy me with the Oppo.

If you really want a richer user experience you can always use the Plex client on the x800 and you'll get all the nice movie and tv artwork. The problem is that the Plex client is restricted to 720p .... No Plex client Yet.

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post #1015 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclones22 View Post
The Oppo is best in class when playing files in both video and audio. From network access to interface. If that's important to you, I'd get the Oppo but they have some kinks to work out in disc playback apparently and it'll cost you $250 more. The X800 can play files well for the most part but the interface and user experience is garbage and no Smb support sucks. Luckily I have the best of both worlds when combined with my Oppo 103D.

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Yeah, I was excited for a minute there when I thought I'd be able to get everything I wanted with the Oppo for about half the price with the Sony (which is listed at $400 CAD on Sony.ca website -- it hasn't shown up on Canadian Best Buy or Amazon sites yet as far as I know). If I went with the Sony, I'd end up using a media server and fiddling with subtitle settings while having to leave my PC running and all that... In that case, I'd just continue playing files directly from my PC. If I were going to get a new disc player, I may as well go all the way and make sure it does pretty much everything I want.

I suspect any kinks with the UDP-203 will be worked out in due time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post
As you stated, file playback is surprisingly good. Sony have taken steps to improve it, but its not perfect, and where it mainly falls short is PGS subtitles in MKVs. Other than that it pretty much plays back everything else including newer HEVC/H265 files. In some instances you do have to take steps to work around things. So if TrueHD is important, you need to put it in a M2TS container.

In terms of user experience, quite honestly I don't really see any difference between the Oppo and this player. They basically present the contents in a list structure. When using DLNA, the Sony doesn't need to build a index, where as the Oppo does. This can be a take a fair bit of time if you have a large number of files in one folder which always use to annoy me with the Oppo.

If you really want a richer user experience you can always use the Plex client on the x800 and you'll get all the nice movie and tv artwork. The problem is that the Plex client is restricted to 720p .... No Plex client Yet.
Being able to play TrueHD from MKV via USB would be nice, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker since I don't have many files like that currently. Most everything is DD or DTS core. But the subs are pretty dang important. If I could shove a movie on a USB stick or whatever, shut down the PC, and plug it into the Sony and have it display subs without trouble then I'd be laughin'.

I could use my PS4 with a media server, but again, the PC would be running and the dang PS4 forces 7.1 output over HDMI regardless of the original content. And of course, no UHD BD playback.
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post #1016 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 07:03 PM
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I thought Netflix 4k HDR has been fine. It is still needed on Amazon, which is only 4k. I'm kind of surprised Sony hasn't pushed out a firmware on that and added additional apps yet.

As a side note, I watched a Netflix movie in Dolby Vision on my TV, now I hope the x800 gets that. PQ seemed much better than HR10 currently on the x800.

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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
I think there were a few on here that were saying Netflix could not play 4K HDR well I just watch the first two episodes of Iron Fist and it plays fine! Also I think the PQ is the best of the 4 marvel shows so far in my opinion I don't notice the grain as much as the other show. I like the show so far it's slow but building after the first two episodes.
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post #1017 of 9896 Old 03-18-2017, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
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At this point we simply don't know. Dolby did announce recently a pure software implementation of Dolby Vision that does not require dedicated hardware, but still requires a adequate processing capability of the processor in the player, tv, set top box, etc. They did do a tech demo of Dolby Vision running on a PS4 that didn't have dedicated dolby vision hardware.

If it doesn't come with the x800 (or x1000), chances are it will appear on the UHD players announced at CES 2018.
I think the possibility is strong. But it will really require a large amount of DV content to surface. Sony is already planning on updating their highest end display (Z9D) to support DV, so clearly they are aware of the possibility of DV becoming necessary. So if we see a bunch of DV stuff in the future I think they'll pony up for the licensing fees on a range of their products. But right now it just isn't justified in their eyes EXCEPT for the customers of theirs spending $6,000+ on a display. And that makes sense. The last thing you want as a company is for customers to be made upset because they spent used car money on an entertainment device only for it to be feature incomplete a few short months later.

Last edited by AMDman18; 03-18-2017 at 08:11 PM.
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post #1018 of 9896 Old 03-19-2017, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
I fixed my Netflix UHD HDR problem! Now I see HDR from Netflix....

I logged onto my PC and opened my Netflix my account, and under Playback settings, I changed it from Auto to High. Now when I stream DD+ on my X800 to my Epson 5040UB it shows HDR.
Great tip...tho it didn't solve my HDR problem.

My PJ shows BT2020 and 4k, but no HDR.

HDR discs work fine and all cables are premium certified. Source Direct is selected.

Any ideas?
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post #1019 of 9896 Old 03-19-2017, 07:18 AM
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Pulled the trigger Friday and picked up my UBP-X800 from Best Buy, completing my dream system:

Sony XBR65X850C
Sony STR-DN860
Sony UBP-X800
Arris DVR (not really part of my dream)

A year ago, we did an extensive remodel of our condo (residence), including in-the-wall wiring for HDMI, USB, Ethernet and coax. This was all done in anticipation of the arrival of my 65X850C. I was holding out for Sony to produce an Ultra HD Blu-ray player. But I could watch UHD/HDR from Netflix and Amazon with issues. Unfortunately, a year ago, there weren't any specs out there for HDMI. All I knew was I needed High Speed to carry 4K/HDR. So I bought and installed High Speed HDMI. I was ready to go. NOT!

So, when I installed the UBP-X800, I was met with the requirement of High Speed HDMI that supports 18 Gbps bandwidth. WHAT?

My dream system has created a nightmare. And I did my homework last year. Now what? Pull Premium Certified HDMI in the wall again? Not an easy task. And I need to get past the boss. I even had a dream last night of doing surgery on my wall. I told her that we have a new Corvette but we have to drive around in 1st gear. I'm not a happy camper and I'm losing sleep.

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post #1020 of 9896 Old 03-19-2017, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheyennebob View Post
Pulled the trigger Friday and picked up my UBP-X800 from Best Buy, completing my dream system:

Sony XBR65X850C
Sony STR-DN860
Sony UBP-X800
Arris DVR (not really part of my dream)

A year ago, we did an extensive remodel of our condo (residence), including in-the-wall wiring for HDMI, USB, Ethernet and coax. This was all done in anticipation of the arrival of my 65X850C. I was holding out for Sony to produce an Ultra HD Blu-ray player. But I could watch UHD/HDR from Netflix and Amazon with issues. Unfortunately, a year ago, there weren't any specs out there for HDMI. All I knew was I needed High Speed to carry 4K/HDR. So I bought and installed High Speed HDMI. I was ready to go. NOT!

So, when I installed the UBP-X800, I was met with the requirement of High Speed HDMI that supports 18 Gbps bandwidth. WHAT?

My dream system has created a nightmare. And I did my homework last year. Now what? Pull Premium Certified HDMI in the wall again? Not an easy task. And I need to get past the boss. I even had a dream last night of doing surgery on my wall. I told her that we have a new Corvette but we have to drive around in 1st gear. I'm not a happy camper and I'm losing sleep.

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Meant to say, able to watch UHD/HDR WITHOUT issues. Sorry.

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