OFFICAL SAMSUNG UBD-M9500 OWNER'S THREAD (No price talk, please) - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1051 of 1070 Old 06-09-2019, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erik343 View Post
Hey thanks for the advice mrtickleuk,

and I have another question:
It's really the same question worded differently

Quote:
I was asking this because I was thinking about upgrading to Spider E-Series HDMI cables that have a bandwidth rating of 21 Gbps. I have Spider C-Series HDMI cables at 18 Gbps currently. So, I was wondering if I were to purchase this cable (Spider E-Series 21 Gbps), would I be able to set my settings higher than 18 Gbps and up to 21 Gbps instead?
No.

Doesn't matter how many times you re-phrase it, your hardware is not going to change!

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Is this just a marketing gimmick,
Yes of course.

Quote:
and can any hardware actually get up to 21 Gbps with HDMI 2.0?
No. HDMI 2.0 has a max bandwidth of 18Gbps. The End.

and the max picture modes are shown linked from my sig.

Quote:
Will buying this cable do any better or good than an 18 Gbps cable instead? Thanks! The main reason I bought the Spider C-Series 18 Gbps cable though is that I did not want to have cheap cables in my expensive home theatre setup.
Sorry but that was a big mistake.

HDMI.org has a very extensive cable testing program called Premium Certified. To get the Premium Certified logo, a cable must pass all the tests and show that it can pass the full 18Gbps.



If the cable has the Premium Certified logo, and is verified with the Premium Certified app, then you have the confidence it will work.
If not, it's the wild west with all manner of ridiculous claims, like that Spider company. They sound very dodgy to me if they are selling snake-oil cables.

You do NOT need to buy an expensive cable. Premium Certified cables are NOT expensive. Also, there are some VERY expensive cables which are rubbish and won't work.

The ONLY thing you EVER need to check when buying, is for the Premium Certified Logo.

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post #1052 of 1070 Old 06-09-2019, 07:34 AM
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I'm wondering if the following (selected) quotes from an HD Guru article is what adds to the confusion? It seems to me that Samsung has been using bits of an existing fourth channel found in HDMI cables (Ethernet channel?) to increase bandwidth so that they can offer features such as VRR, QMS, and HDR10+ using HDMI 2.0(b) hardware

Quote:
Right now, HDMI, as you know it, is three channels. Red, Green and Blue, or D0, D1 and D2.

Since day one of HDMI 1.0 there have been four high-speed channels built into the interface. That fourth high-speed channel will be turned on for the first time as a legitimate high-speed channel with 2.1. Up until this point it has just been a clock ticking along syncing up the Reds, the Greens and the Blues. It hasn’t had to do much.
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The HDMI Forum sets minimum compliance tests but where HDMI 2.0 had a list of things that would be required, HDMI 2.1 for the first time brings in digital compression — it allows for built-in compression in the spec. So if we are at 6 Gbps per lane, when we add a fourth channel we are at 24 Gbps. So, we are talking about the ability to pass 4K/120 using compression and as long as you can support 4K/60fps 4:4:4 or 8K 4:4:4, you are able to call yourself HDMI 2.1.
This article by FlatPanelsHD, and one of Vincent Teoh's YT videos, also combine to make consumer's understanding, mine included, just a little murky. There's a lot more more to HDMI 2.0 than meets the eye, in my mind anyway. I'm wide open to correction and clarification if I'm misunderstanding something!
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post #1053 of 1070 Old 06-09-2019, 08:45 AM
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To be fair, Monster Cable has been perpetuating the "bigger is better" mantra for years too. If you look at their line of HDMI cables they show cables that go higher than 18 Gbps too, it's marketing for the average consumer: people think bigger numbers equals better.

Samsung 75Q9FN
Samsung HW-N950
Samsung UBD-M9500

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post #1054 of 1070 Old 06-09-2019, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyYYZ View Post
I'm wondering if the following (selected) quotes from an HD Guru article is what adds to the confusion? It seems to me that Samsung has been using bits of an existing fourth channel found in HDMI cables (Ethernet channel?) to increase bandwidth so that they can offer features such as VRR, QMS, and HDR10+ using HDMI 2.0(b) hardware
It's possible, but how people could make the leap from that to thinking that they would in any way benefit from using an "Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (48G Cable)" - ie a cable designed for use with a high-bandwidth HDMI2.1 device when they do not have high-bandwidth HDMI2.1 devices at both ends of the cable, is mind-boggling.

There are two categories of Premium Certified cable:
  • Premium High Speed HDMI Cable
  • Premium High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet

(There isn't yet a Premium Certified testing spec/program for the Category 3 HDMI or "Ultra High Speed" HDMI cables. It's too soon).

If anyone is in any way worried about VRR, QMS etc, then get one of the second type. It's still 18Gbps of course and will work.

Quote:
This article by FlatPanelsHD, and one of Vincent Teoh's YT videos, also combine to make consumer's understanding, mine included, just a little murky. There's a lot more more to HDMI 2.0 than meets the eye, in my mind anyway. I'm wide open to correction and clarification if I'm misunderstanding something!
That's the point of the Premium Certified program - so that there is NOT more than meets the eye! Consumers were fed up, and being ripped off. There's no need to go into such detail - just get a Premium Certified cable.
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post #1055 of 1070 Old 06-09-2019, 11:47 AM
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Hmmm...well, what I know is that 4K 60 HDR 4:2:2 requires 17.82Gbps, so I am suggesting that the extra bandwidth required for HDR10+, VRR, etc. is somehow still being transported through HDMI cables.

Having said that, Rtings once told me that 4K 60 HDR 4:4:4 @ 8-bit is how they meet the bandwidth restrictions for gamers, so perhaps there are other options available to manufacturers, besides the forth channel found in the Premium High-Speed HDMI Cables with Ethernet, to meet the additional bandwidth requirements? I'd love to know!

That's the part that I find a bit murky.

Last edited by SkyYYZ; 06-09-2019 at 04:37 PM. Reason: 17.28Gbps -> 17.82Gbps
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post #1056 of 1070 Old 06-09-2019, 01:57 PM
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Talking Thanks

Thanks guys, this stuff is just confusing and especially when dealing with false claims from cable manufacturers!
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post #1057 of 1070 Old 06-09-2019, 04:31 PM
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I recommend selecting "Auto" settings on your M9500, and trusting that Samsung engineers are optimizing your viewing experience. You were given detailed advice above by mrtickleuk; take it, and you will be golden. Also, this forum is only thirty-six pages long, and it contains a wealth of information.
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post #1058 of 1070 Old 06-10-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyYYZ View Post
Hmmm...well, what I know is that 4K 60 HDR 4:2:2 requires 17.82Gbps,
Incomplete spec.

4K 60 HDR 4:2:2 12-bit requires 17.82Gbps

Quote:
so I am suggesting that the extra bandwidth required for HDR10+, VRR, etc. is somehow still being transported through HDMI cables.
The metadata is tiny. VRR isn't "extra bandwidth", it's a variable number of frames/second up to a maximum of the cap of 60Hz anyway. So it can only SAVE bandwidth if there are fewer than 60 frames that second.

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Having said that, Rtings once told me that 4K 60 HDR 4:4:4 @ 8-bit is how they meet the bandwidth restrictions for gamers, so perhaps there are other options available to manufacturers, besides the forth channel found in the Premium High-Speed HDMI Cables with Ethernet, to meet the additional bandwidth requirements? I'd love to know!
"No". Each time the same question is rephrased in a slightly different way, it's no more pointless. The hardware we have in this (now very old) Blu-ray player isn't going to change. The bandwidth of the 4K60 12bit 4:2:2 mode is exactly the same as the 4K60 8bit 4:4:4 mode, because those modes use the same way/frequency of transmitting the data down the cable, just packaged up differently.

All the supported modes are in the link in my sig, and I'm getting tired of repeating this . I can't force you to click it, but I've pretty much said all there is to say on the subject. I'd only be repeating the same answers! HTH
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Last edited by mrtickleuk; 06-10-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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post #1059 of 1070 Old 06-10-2019, 03:07 PM
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My research at Cedia.net, which I posted in this forum about a year ago, led me to understand differently.

Quote:
4K60 4:4:4 runs at 17.82Gbps, but only with the default 8-bit BT.709 color. That’s the same color gamut as 720p and 1080i/p. The whole point of HDR is to increase color volume, which it can’t do unless there’s first an increased color gamut. That means stepping up to BT.2020, which in turn means 10- or 12-bit deep color. The HDMI 2.0 spec also calls for a minimum 10-bit color with BT.2020.

Here's how it stands...

Main + 2 sides;
(Remember it has to be under 18Gbps…)

4K 60 4:4:4 (no HDR) = 17.82Gbps

4K 30 4:4:4 10b-HDR (no 60fps) = 11.14Gbps

4K 60 4:2:2 10b-HDR (no 4:4:4) = 17.82Gbps

Main + 3 sides;

4K 60 4:4:4 10b-HDR = 22.28Gbps
I was only trying to respectfully join the conversation with some possible reasons why not everybody is on the same page as you. To be honest, I stopped caring about this months ago; I'm just enjoying my 4K gear for what it is at the moment and waiting till 2020 to upgrade it all again.
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post #1060 of 1070 Old 06-15-2019, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
The metadata is tiny.
15kbps. I wasted hours of free time last year trying to conclude information from various websites; meanwhile, the information has resided here on AVSF since 2017.

Also, thanks for sharing your HDMI bandwidth chart with the community. Everything is much clearer to me now.
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post #1061 of 1070 Old 06-24-2019, 08:06 PM
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Question All UHD Blu-Rays Movies in 4:2:0 Color Format or not?

Do all UHD Blu-Ray movies run with a color format of 4:2:0? Are there any that can run at 4:4:4?
I heard a rumor that they all run at 4:2:0, is that true?

The reason I am asking is that if I can set my Samsung UBD-M9500 color format to 4:2:0, I can save on HDMI cable bandwidth and max out all the other settings! That way, I can have my UHD TV upscale to 4:4:4 instead the UHD Blu-Ray player... which saves bandwidth on my HDMI 2.0 cable...

Thanks!

Erik W.
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post #1062 of 1070 Old 06-24-2019, 08:31 PM
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Please do not start a new thread. Your question has been answered here and in the UHD specifications thread. The standard is 4:2:0 10 bit.
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post #1063 of 1070 Old 06-26-2019, 06:11 PM
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Thank you!
I will look at that...
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post #1064 of 1070 Old 07-22-2019, 03:59 AM
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5.1 Audio Problem with my Samsung M9500

I have my Samsung M9500 connected to a Samsung 8 series SUHD TV. My receiver is an older Yamaha RX-V1400 that I am currently running in 5.1 mode. I have the Blu-ray player connect to the TV hub with an optical connection from there to the receiver. When I play a Blu-ray or DVD, the receiver is only showing 2 channel mode. I have tried everything I can think of to resolve the issue. Even though my receiver works in 5.1 correctly when viewing a movie from a hard drive, I tried connecting an optical cable from the Blu-ray player directly to the receiver. After considerable fumbling around, I got it to play a DVD in 5.1 mode, but when I removed that disc and inserted a Blu-ray it went back to 2 channel where it remains now. If anyone can offer any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it as I am puling my hair our over it.


BTW, I have run setup on my receiver and everything appears properly configured.


Thanks in advance,
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post #1065 of 1070 Old 07-22-2019, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmanolinsky View Post
I have my Samsung M9500 connected to a Samsung 8 series SUHD TV. My receiver is an older Yamaha RX-V1400 that I am currently running in 5.1 mode. I have the Blu-ray player connect to the TV hub with an optical connection from there to the receiver. When I play a Blu-ray or DVD, the receiver is only showing 2 channel mode. I have tried everything I can think of to resolve the issue. Even though my receiver works in 5.1 correctly when viewing a movie from a hard drive, I tried connecting an optical cable from the Blu-ray player directly to the receiver. After considerable fumbling around, I got it to play a DVD in 5.1 mode, but when I removed that disc and inserted a Blu-ray it went back to 2 channel where it remains now.
What are your Sound settings on the M9500? Is the digital audio output format on the TV set to Dolby Digital? Are you able to get 5.1 sound from the TV for any other source?
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post #1066 of 1070 Old 07-22-2019, 01:06 PM
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I have tried each of the settings in the M9500. As mentioned I can get 5.1 from other sources such as Netflix, movies on hard disk or live TV. As also mentioned I briefly had it working DTS 5.1 on a DVD (Pearl Harbor) in the M9500. This particular disc has a THX setup which includes video and an audio test. When I run the audio test it correctly plays the white noise from the front left speaker, but is silent on the center, front right and subwoofer and doesn't even show the right and left surround speakers as being present. I can immediately run the speaker test from my receiver and all speakers play the white noise correctly.
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post #1067 of 1070 Old 07-22-2019, 01:31 PM
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I have tried each of the settings in the M9500.
So using HDMI out to the TV, setting "Audio Output Format" to "Bitstream (Re-encoded Dolby D)" doesn't work? And using optical out direct to the receiver, setting "Audio Output Format (Optical)" to "Bitstream (Re-encoded Dolby D)" doesn't work?
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post #1068 of 1070 Old 07-23-2019, 03:23 AM
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thoth, I'm sure I tried those settings, but I will try again and get back to you.


Thanks to those trying to help me figure this out.


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post #1069 of 1070 Old 07-23-2019, 06:21 AM
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thoth, I'm sure I tried those settings, but I will try again and get back to you.
In both cases, while playing the movie, press the Tools button and select Information, and note what it shows for audio output (two places, 2nd and 4th lines).
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post #1070 of 1070 Old 07-24-2019, 02:57 AM
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I got it to work! However, it is very finicky and has to be reset if you so much as change chapters. Also, you must set the audio settings on the disc AND the M9500 each time.


Thank you for taking the time to lend a hand!


Jmanolinsky
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