Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
But interestingly, both Kaleidescape and Classe were resurrected. Will someone buy Oppo's assets? I'm sure folks would not mind a Panny-flavored UDP-203. I'm just dreaming. The Kuro of players, that's this.

Doubtul. The parent company Oppo is huge in comparisson and its their name so you don't have the ability to market the brand and goodwill that would normally exist.


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post #272 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Connecting a 205 directly to an amp and you can have one hell of a system that blows away an AVR of comparable price. You don't get the features but it can still sound better. I have a couple of friends that do this and driving Revels.


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Are any of the plastic Blu-ray players all the haters have been ranting about capable of this? I don’t believe so but they have apps so I guess it equals out


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post #273 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:54 AM
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Should I sell?

Wow. This news is a bummer. I currently have an Oppo BDP-105D in Silver. I was planning to upgrade to a 203 or 205 eventually when I upgrade my aging Pioneer plasma to an OLED. Now I'm wondering if I should sell the 105D now and pick up a 203 or 205 before they're gone or just hold on to it and wait and hope that some decent and reasonable Panasonic or Sony is available when I need UHD. Thoughts?

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post #274 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:55 AM
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A very sad day!!!




Since the original BD-83, it was my only brand to go to, for BD players.
And not mind paying more, for the better quality, also did had some issue with the first one. But there Customer Service was Outstanding.
They even took care of me, after the warranty was expire at no cost, for a fault of my own.
I will miss them a lot!!!


Ray
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post #275 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Sorry but reviews basically say the same thing. What you're paying for is the extra "features" that most people dont care about. Like I mentioned - analog audio outs, support for dead CD formats(SACD & DVD Audio), chassis weight, etc. Sure, it is quite possible that the upscaling algorithms are better in the top players are better but anyone with a good TV wil let the TV scale it anyways so that also becomes a non-factor.

What "picture enhancement" stuff do you speak of? I dont want any picture enhancements...I just want whats on the disc to be sent to my TV and thats it.

The same 4K disc int going to look any different on my player or your Oppo. If you can point me to a legit, double blind test where viewer after viewer keeps picking the Oppo over the lower cost players in a shootout then Ill come here and concede. Otherwise, I think you guys are just hunting for verification/validation that your player looks better. Sure, maybe they are built better - I already said that. Maybe they physically look nicer. Maybe they have a cool user group following or whatever. But when the rubber hits the road, aka the disc gets played they dont do anything more than any other player. Unless someone can prove me wrong!
there is a definite difference in what the panasonic ubp 900 puts out and my budget sony x700 player puts out. same way like my flagship1080p sony S1000ES puts out a better picture than the barebones sony S185. You dont believe that you only pay for features, you pay for better video processing and picture enhancement features, you just havent owned a flagship , 4k or 1080p, so you dont know. my sony S1000ES has super bit mapping, hd reality enhancer, contrast enhancer , all of which make the image better.
im not talking of looks or useless features, core video processing and enhancement. 4k blu ray output simply looks beter on the panasonic ubp x 900 (and the oppo 203) over my barebones x700 which has almost no video enhancement options, including upscaling of < 4k sources which looks better on the panasonic and oppo, i've seen them s-b-s, and im saying that as the owner of the x700.

when you get a higher end tv, you get better PQ, when you get higher end BD player, you get better video and audio output and more options and enhancements to tune the image. try stacking up the mentioned panasonic and oppo next to your samsung player, you will know what im saying about the superior video output when playing the same 4k movie.
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post #276 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:59 AM
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What the natural hell? Snap up your UHD players quik, everyone. Nobody builds them like Oppo!
That's why they are going out of business. We have gone from a consumer that is focused on price rather than quality.
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post #277 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
SACD isn't dead, it's just very niche.
It's deader than dead - saying it's niche is like saying that HD-DVD isn't dead. Come on, I can draw out this analogy and claim that LaserDisc isn't dead, it's just niche. Just because some obscure symphony decides to release its sounds on its own record label doesn't make SACD niche.
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post #278 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by T-smith View Post
You’ve been ranting since the news broke last night saying the same thing over and over...where is this discussion?

You clearly don’t play in the two channel world, don’t know anything about what makes these players great for music but still hating because they don’t have apps...come on


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First of all I called a truce and said some nice things about these players. Second, I have been "ranting" since one of the snobs here said we don't stream because we care about picture quality.

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post #279 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:03 AM
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could we move on please?

thanks

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post #280 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by T-smith View Post
1200 for a two channel player is peanuts especially when compared to other DACs

Thanks for proving my point though that you don’t even know what these players are capable of but are still in this thread ranting a day later
One dealer I know, who happens to be one of the best in Atlanta, has a demo room with $50K speakers, a $30K turntable, $10K cartridge, ~$40K worth of Audio Research preamps, probably close to $20K monoblock amps and costly Ayre music streamer & CD player - all for 2 channel. It sounds divine but so far out of my budget ) But it's nice to go in & hear what could be attained if one had unlimited budget.

$1300 for a universal player isn't even on this room's radar screen

It's all relative.

As far as apps, don't all Smart TV's nowadays have built-in apps? Plus there's always $100 Roku & $150 Apple TV boxes one can add for apps. It's not needed in a disc player altho I admit its convenient to have the player be a media hub.
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post #281 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
It's deader than dead - saying it's niche is like saying that HD-DVD isn't dead. Come on, I can draw out this analogy and claim that LaserDisc isn't dead, it's just niche. Just because some obscure symphony decides to release its sounds on its own record label doesn't make SACD niche.
Acoustic Sounds sells thousands of SACDs. They are releasing new SACDs all the time, and not just for classical and jazz, but also rock classics from Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, Steppenwolf, Santana, etc. SACD is certainly not dead - it's just a market that you have no clue about.
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post #282 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
It's deader than dead - saying it's niche is like saying that HD-DVD isn't dead. Come on, I can draw out this analogy and claim that LaserDisc isn't dead, it's just niche. Just because some obscure symphony decides to release its sounds on its own record label doesn't make SACD niche.
Well, they keep coming out with new SACDs. And not just obscure classical music, but classic rock SACDs as well.
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post #283 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:06 AM
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so if I want to buy the 203, now, no warranty, would it be cheaper?
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post #284 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
It's deader than dead - saying it's niche is like saying that HD-DVD isn't dead. Come on, I can draw out this analogy and claim that LaserDisc isn't dead, it's just niche. Just because some obscure symphony decides to release its sounds on its own record label doesn't make SACD niche.
You're entitled to be wrong.
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First of all I called a truce and said some nice things about these players. Second, I have been "ranting" since one of the snobs here said we don't stream because we care about picture quality.

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a 15.85 mbps locked netflix 4k hdr stream is not comparable to a BD 4k hdr that can put out bitrates like 80mbps. and streaming is dependent on you connection quality, blu ray is is free of those variables. Blu ray is still the best way to watch if youre a videophile.
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post #286 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:12 AM
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One of the primary reasons Oppo players held their value so well was because of the strong support from the company. Things have changed in the last month since you sold your Oppo 93 -- now that famous support continuing into the future is highly in doubt.
I think these machines will go on to be revered and hold their value like some of the classic Technics turntables.
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post #287 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:14 AM
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Great = Not distracting so that I can enjoy watching the movie when played on a 120-inch Stewart StudioTek projecting with a Sony 365ES.

Back when I compared to disc versus streaming, I found it incredibly difficult to make an objective comparison of a specific frame, which was necessary to make a proper comparison. Now, with the current state of things it's not even possible to do 4K comparisons.

Anyhow, you are 100% correct that I like getting earlier access to movies and the zero hassle nature of a digital movie collection.

So anyhiw, great is a loosely defined term and one I chose because it implies sufficiency. I'm not going to be fool enough to argue that it's not beateb by higher bitrate disc-based content. I will argue that at some point it won't matter anymore, not because people don't care but because people won't be able to see the difference anyhow. And maybe we're not quite there yet, but it's inevitable that streaming will eventually pass the current disc-based quality standard and the real question is whether they'll be another disc-based format to follow up 4K UHD Blu-ray, or if this is the end of the line.


This is undeniably true. Already, Netflix is vastly superior to all FIOS delivered channels.
Movie rentals are very convenient, I do it all the time. I only buy disks for the best experience for limited titles.


I bought Jumanji from Apple TV 4K and own the UHD disk.
The sound is clearly better on disk (especially noticeable on the score), but the ATV4K version was still an amazing mix; I thought my center channel was coming off the wall. You just cannot beat convenience and for those with families, that can be everything.

  • When you look that what is offered by UHD I rank then as follows:
  • HDR - High Dynamic Range
  • WCG - Wide Color Gamut (Unfortunately this is often poorly used and has not been measured in reviews)
    4K - Often lost at viewing distance
I still don't think we are getting the same P3 color provided at the cinema in many titles. With UHD's added brightness, color can be better at home.


- Rich

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post #288 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:31 AM
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Blurays or uhd's are copied/ripped 1:1 to the NAS here and played over a network share using a mediaplayer (e.g. Dune 4K or ATV/w Infuse).
Illegal in the US under the DMCA.
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post #289 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:32 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpXIru0fxwY

so if I want to buy the 203, now, no warranty, would it be cheaper?
Oppo said they will continue to honor the warranty so why do you think there isn't one?
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post #290 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
a 15.85 mbps locked netflix 4k hdr stream is not comparable to a BD 4k hdr that can put out bitrates like 80mbps. and streaming is dependent on you connection quality, blu ray is is free of those variables. Blu ray is still the best way to watch if youre a videophile.
I love my Oppo, but iTunes already stream 4K @ about 25Mbps, which some reviewers have said show very small video degradation from Blu-ray. I can see Netflix offering a higher quality stream within the next couple of years. Also, AV1 is on the horizon in the same timeframe and although it's not been independently verified it claims to be 30% more efficient than currently available codecs. So, if we had e.g. 30Mb/s streaming with 30% improved efficiency, i.e. better than iTunes now and were able to use some of that for lossless audio you might have to argue it's "good enough" a bit like high bitrate audio streaming now - not technically as good as a lossless format it's true, but good enough for even most (I know not all!) audiophiles.

This "writing on the wall" could not have helped when deciding if to invest in a new generation of player.

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post #291 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:37 AM
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At the moment I have my 103D and 203 connected (occasional use to the 103D) and I'm wondering if I should box up the 103D and keep it on ice just in case I need the Region Free, SACD and 3D features down the road? Or would is better serve the 103D to give it occasional use?
That’s exactly what I’m doing with my 103D for my region-free content that I don’t get around to burning onto NAS. And buying a backup 203 “just in case” my 203’s UHD loader goes bad and they stop doing unit repair sooner rather than later. I can be in Oppo-land for at least five years, if not more, this way.

Who would have thought Oppo would ultimately become the new Kuro
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post #292 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
2 channel audio? Seriously, 2 channel audio? 1,200 bucks for 2 channel audio, wow.
Seriously dirt cheap for what you get.

Though it's an Oppo transport, your next decent choice for SACD/DVD-A playback is the PS Audio DirectStream DAC and DirectStream Memory Player at $11K for the pair, and that's reasonably inexpensive as products at that level go. PS Audio has stated that they believe they have enough Oppo transports in stock to last them a while.

Likewise, one of the readily compared two channel DACS using the ESS9038PRO chip is the Ayre QX-5 Twenty which is $9K.
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post #293 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:38 AM
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They should have charged way more. The 2 channel guys would still have bought it bc it would still have been a relative bargain to them.

At it's price point, it tried to loop everyone in, except it was full of features no one wanted, 2 channel, and lacked features the majority wanted, streaming.

They tried to make it a catch all, but lost out on the majority, and didn't charge enough for the minority.

Sure the hardware looked and felt great, which is cool for people displaying their equipment front and center, but majority are just unboxed and put in a rack or cabinet to never be seen again.

Charge $2500 for the 205 and strip the 203 down to nothing but blu ray with apps for $300. The pano 400 is exactly that with amazing results.

Regarding apps, even enthusiasts take advantage. I purchase my share of hard disc, but when a title pops up on vudu with 4k/hdr/atmos as a rental for a movie I will 100% only watch once, it's a no brainer. Not to mention the netflix/amazon only shows like stranger things etc that are streaming only.
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post #294 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:40 AM
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At it's price point, it tried to loop everyone in, except it was full of features no one wanted, 2 channel, and lacked features the majority wanted, streaming.
If they had supported streaming, it's likely neither the 203 nor 205 would have ever come to market.

Oppo had a rather expensive and annoying nightmare trying to keep all the streaming apps up to date with changes the vendors made on the 103/105.
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post #295 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
apparently ... Panasonic is releasing a good 4k player. However, its unclear whether or not it will be released here in the States.
http://shop.panasonic.com/about-us-l...S-BlueRay.html
I got excited there for a sec with the 7.1 analog outputs but without an HDMI input it's useless as a pre-pro replacement unlike the 203 / 205.

However, even if it did, there's no Atmos decoding so it's still relatively weak, and you'd need 12 channels to make it truly an AVR killer.

Sad to see Oppo dying. It's the market now, people are buying useless junk like vinyl that's both inconvenient, expensive, and offers worse audio quality than the CD player I had as a teenager in the 90s, and those who aren't are typically streaming...junk. Same goes for video.

People who think Netflix is the be all and end all of TV quality nowadays will never really understand the value of high bitrate content and just say, well this is UHD and HDR so it's the same thing. No, it isn't.
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post #296 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
There is absolutely nothing wrong with their present offering. Its a piece of electronic equipment.. someone or something else will replace it. I do hope they get the DV bug worked out with Sony TVs ..whatever that entails. if not .. ill sell my 205 to a collector and pick up the Panasonic UB9000 and hopefully figure out a way to take out all the Alexa crap.
Cambridge Audio has player that is very similar in terms of PQ and build. It even shifts subtitles.
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post #297 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:43 AM
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So, if we had e.g. 30Mb/s streaming with 30% improved efficiency, i.e. better than iTunes now and were able to use some of that for lossless audio you might have to argue it's "good enough" a bit like high bitrate audio streaming now
It should be interesting to see how quickly 30 Mb/s streaming would cause most people to hit their bandwidth caps.
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Originally Posted by jong1 View Post
I love my Oppo, but iTunes already stream 4K @ about 25Mbps, which some reviewers have said show very small video degradation from Blu-ray. I can see Netflix offering a higher quality stream within the next couple of years. Also, AV1 is on the horizon in the same timeframe and although it's not been independently verified it claims to be 30% more efficient than currently available codecs. So, if we had e.g. 30Mb/s streaming with 30% improved efficiency, i.e. better than iTunes now and were able to use some of that for lossless audio you might have to argue it's "good enough" a bit like high bitrate audio streaming now - not technically as good as a lossless format it's true, but good enough for even most (I know not all!) audiophiles.

This "writing on the wall" could not have helped when deciding if to invest in a new generation of player.
you can up the bitrate, but it's never going to be the avg. bitrate what a 100gb 4k blu ray disc can put out. and how does 25 or 30 mbps streaming work for people who have an internet connection of 16-20 mbps like me, do tell, what about data caps on internet, 4k streaming is a data hog. for some people , it's also not as simple as get a new isp or connection because of technical networking limitations at my location, but i can still get a high end blu ray player, get some movies and play them.
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post #299 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jaychatbonneau View Post
Cambridge Audio has player that is very similar in terms of PQ and build. It even shifts subtitles.
But requires the purchase of an HDMI-capable surround processor, something I don't own.
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post #300 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
It should be interesting to see how quickly 30 Mb/s streaming would cause most people to hit their bandwidth caps.
In the UK most (non mobile) packages do not have any caps. However, even where they do, I'm sure not that long ago people would have said that about 15Mb/s. I'm also sure if Netflix decided to change ISPs would have to adapt.

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