Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 109 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3241 of 3343 Old 04-11-2019, 05:43 AM
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post #3242 of 3343 Old 04-18-2019, 11:26 PM
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I was surprised no company snatched up the design and engineering talent that suddenly became available when Oppo made their fateful operating decisions.


Seems to me that a new wonderful business opportunity was missed by not grabbing the core team and spinning anew.
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post #3243 of 3343 Old 04-19-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jamoke View Post
I was surprised no company snatched up the design and engineering talent that suddenly became available when Oppo made their fateful operating decisions.
You make the assumption that several weren't and that the rest aren't busy working on phones.
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post #3244 of 3343 Old 04-19-2019, 10:45 PM
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You make the assumption that several weren't and that the rest aren't busy working on phones.

Well, it's been a year, and there has not been even a rumor of a new division or new company that would even remotely resemble Oppo Digital or it's products.



Good engineers will always find work, but I still think this was a missed opportunity for some greatness.
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post #3245 of 3343 Old 04-20-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jamoke View Post
I was surprised no company snatched up the design and engineering talent that suddenly became available when Oppo made their fateful operating decisions.

Seems to me that a new wonderful business opportunity was missed by not grabbing the core team and spinning anew.
It seems that Oppo Digital got out of the universal player business for a reason. That exact reason or reasons has not been officially divulged by Oppo Digital. So any company thinking of starting a company similar to Oppo's would probably see that as cause to not get in the market Oppo Digital vacated. More to a company like Oppo Digital than just design and engineering of the players themselves.

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post #3246 of 3343 Old 04-20-2019, 09:56 AM
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All of those who see a missed opportunity in Oppo Digital’s passing should contact them about a way to pick up the baton. I’d contribute to a Go Fund Me campaign.

That said, physical media peaked and is on the decline. Streaming is the present and the future.

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post #3247 of 3343 Old 04-20-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
All of those who see a missed opportunity in Oppo Digital’s passing should contact them about a way to pick up the baton. I’d contribute to a Go Fund Me campaign.

That said, physical media peaked and is on the decline. Streaming is the present and the future.

Yes, but they could have made premium streaming based products as well as premium digital file/hi-rez file audio playback products, DACs, etc. They made quite a few other products -- not just universal disc players, which no doubt are on the decline overall because physical media is in decline. But there is still a market for them, especially at the premium level. If this was not the case, then Panasonic, for example, would not be making such players and filling the void Oppo left.


It's only speculation, but in all likelihood I think they just calculated they could make more money/profit with their phone business than with their consumer electronics business. No doubt declining physical media was a factor, but it may not have been the dominant factor. And as far as I know, their business was making money and they were not in the red financially or anything.


But we will probably never know the whole story. It would certainly be nice if someone else, i.e. some other company, would buy the brand and engineering talent and pick up where they left off, but I think it's sadly very unlikely to happen.
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post #3248 of 3343 Old 04-26-2019, 05:21 PM
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Is there a consensus on what the best replacement is for the Oppo 205/203 UHD players? I am looking for a universal player that will play DVD-Audio, SACD as well as UHD discs? Thanks for your help.

Cal68

PS: I really wish I had bought an Oppo 203 when I first heard that they were going out of the business. Unfortunately, I could not afford one at the time so now I only have the Oppo 205 powering my main HT system.

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post #3249 of 3343 Old 04-26-2019, 06:33 PM
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Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke.

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Originally Posted by Cal68 View Post
Is there a consensus on what the best replacement is for the Oppo 205/203 UHD players? I am looking for a universal player that will play DVD-Audio, SACD as well as UHD discs? Thanks for your help.

Cal68

PS: I really wish I had bought an Oppo 203 when I first heard that they were going out of the business. Unfortunately, I could not afford one at the time so now I only have the Oppo 205 powering my main HT system.

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post #3250 of 3343 Old 04-26-2019, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal68 View Post
Is there a consensus on what the best replacement is for the Oppo 205/203 UHD players? I am looking for a universal player that will play DVD-Audio, SACD as well as UHD discs? Thanks for your help.

Cal68

PS: I really wish I had bought an Oppo 203 when I first heard that they were going out of the business. Unfortunately, I could not afford one at the time so now I only have the Oppo 205 powering my main HT system.
Why do you regret not getting a 203 and why do you want another player when you already have a 205?
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post #3251 of 3343 Old 04-26-2019, 07:35 PM
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You can still get an Oppo 203 for what the Pioneer costs.
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post #3252 of 3343 Old 04-26-2019, 07:54 PM
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You can still get an Oppo 203 for what the Pioneer costs.

True...a little less but he asked for a replacement.


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post #3253 of 3343 Old 04-26-2019, 08:36 PM
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he ..
inexplicably ...
Quote:
asked for a replacement.

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post #3254 of 3343 Old 04-27-2019, 05:29 PM
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Yes, but they could have made premium streaming based products as well as premium digital file/hi-rez file audio playback products, DACs, etc. They made quite a few other products -- not just universal disc players, which no doubt are on the decline overall because physical media is in decline. But there is still a market for them, especially at the premium level. If this was not the case, then Panasonic, for example, would not be making such players and filling the void Oppo left.


It's only speculation, but in all likelihood I think they just calculated they could make more money/profit with their phone business than with their consumer electronics business. No doubt declining physical media was a factor, but it may not have been the dominant factor. And as far as I know, their business was making money and they were not in the red financially or anything.


But we will probably never know the whole story. It would certainly be nice if someone else, i.e. some other company, would buy the brand and engineering talent and pick up where they left off, but I think it's sadly very unlikely to happen.
The Oppo website stated that they could not justify the investment of developing a next generation disc player, presumably 8K. As streaming takes evermore market share from physical media I think they are correct. The number of buyers for 4K discs is pretty small, and 8K will be smaller yet.

Once Apple allows caching 4K and beyond movies it will be over. The only way to win in that game is to not play. It seems that Oppo is having some success in the Chinese cell phone market. Good for them even though I miss them already.

Discs are dying and future formats may well never leave the womb. The future belongs to the streamers.
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post #3255 of 3343 Old 04-27-2019, 08:29 PM
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Every regular here has heard that and probably accept it. Of course, new members wander, don’t search the thread and pine away. Or they don’t believe the facts before them and/or can’t let go, and/or whatever. I’m not a streamer; I am a ripper with a media server in the basement. And JRiver.

I rarely use my Oppo 83.

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post #3256 of 3343 Old 04-28-2019, 04:48 AM
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I’m not a streamer; I am a ripper with a media server in the basement. And JRiver.

I rarely use my Oppo 83.
Ripping is something I've not explored seriously. I'll dig into it, thanks for the nudge. I have an Oppo 103 and 83SE, for audio playback from CDs I prefer the 83SE although streaming can be satisfying from some sources.

The future of physical media will be fun to follow. LPs have held on, I suppose DVD and UHD discs will for a time as well. Vinyl can be a rewarding listening experience compared to CDs, but that is analog vs digital. Discs vs a server or streaming is digital vs digital.

Oppo is actually giving the cell phone sector a run in China. It looks like they made the right choice.
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post #3257 of 3343 Old 04-28-2019, 06:23 AM
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The future of physical media will be fun to follow. LPs have held on, I suppose DVD and UHD discs will for a time as well. Vinyl can be a rewarding listening experience compared to CDs, but that is analog vs digital. Discs vs a server or streaming is digital vs digital.
Discs vs a streaming service isn't just digital vs digital. Even when the resolution is the same, the video is higher bitrate (disc) vs lower bitrate (streaming service). The audio is multichannel (disc) vs stereo (streaming service) or higher quality multichannel (Dolby TrueHD / DTS HD Master) vs lower quality multichannel (Dolby Digital Plus). The video quality of streaming service has improved significantly over the last several years to the point where it is now very good. Audio, on the other hand, has remained compromised compared to what's available on disc. Audio is probably getting less attention because everyone will be watching the video, while a smaller subset of users use much beyond the speakers built into their TV.
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post #3258 of 3343 Old 04-28-2019, 07:07 AM
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Discs vs a streaming service isn't just digital vs digital. Even when the resolution is the same, the video is higher bitrate (disc) vs lower bitrate (streaming service). The audio is multichannel (disc) vs stereo (streaming service) or higher quality multichannel (Dolby TrueHD / DTS HD Master) vs lower quality multichannel (Dolby Digital Plus).
Good points, but there is no real barrier to full audio and video delivery by streaming. As bandwidth grows there will be no point to dumbing down the content. There are plenty of silly omissions currently, like Hulu not delivering Dolby Digital on their HBO content on Roku. It's not a matter of settings or content, Hulu just doesn't send it. But I expect that they will by the end of 2019.

Streaming is such a fluid format and is quick to upgrade. For example, CBS posted the first season of Star Trek Discovery in stereo. There was enough outcry from the nerd battalion that Season Two debuted with full Dolby Digital and 2.40:1 aspect ratio.

All said and done I do expect to buy an UHD player this year, probably the new Pioneer Elite. I am waiting to see what the new Anthem AVRs look like, as well as the new 4K projectors this fall. I do not expect a new disc format to follow UHD.
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post #3259 of 3343 Old 04-28-2019, 08:17 AM
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The Oppo website stated that they could not justify the investment of developing a next generation disc player, presumably 8K.

I don't think it would have been 8K, but just the next generation 4K/UHD player. They made several generations of HD Blu-ray players, improving them each time. The problem with the 203/205 series was the video side, even though it does 4K, was not at the high premium level of the QDEO processing for 1080p from the previous generation players, i.e. the 103/105 series (which still yields the best 1080p picture quality, IME) The biggest leap aside from being able to play 4K discs was the analog audio side, especially for the 205 (but for the 203 too).


Frankly, I doubt there will ever be an 8K physical media format for consumers. In fact, I think we were lucky to have even gotten one for 4K.


Aside from all of this, it seems like there were other premium products Oppo could have made, like Music streamers, DACs, video streamers, etc. They made a lot of other products besides just the universal disc players.
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post #3260 of 3343 Old 04-28-2019, 08:38 AM
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I don't think it would have been 8K, but just the next generation 4K/UHD player. They made several generations of HD Blu-ray players, improving them each time. The problem with the 203/205 series was the video side, even though it does 4K, was not at the high premium level of the QDEO processing for 1080p from the previous generation players, i.e. the 103/105 series (which still yields the best 1080p picture quality, IME) The biggest leap aside from being able to play 4K discs was the analog audio side, especially for the 205 (but for the 203 too).


Frankly, I doubt there will ever be an 8K physical media format for consumers. In fact, I think we were lucky to have even gotten one for 4K.


Aside from all of this, it seems like there were other premium products Oppo could have made, like Music streamers, DACs, video streamers, etc. They made a lot of other products besides just the universal disc players.
From what I read Oppo is taking an all hands on deck approach to the Chinese cell phone market where they are going beak to beak with some very big players. An interesting strategy that I respect. When I read the announcement I thought that they meant that they would continue production of current products, not that they intended to quickly exit the market. I had that wrong. I agree that the 103 has excellent 1080p reproduction. And for CD playback I still prefer the 83SE.

Oppo had someone on board who understands the nuances of media reproduction that appeals to discerning patrons who are not interesting in conspicuous consumption catered to by other brands.
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Good points, but there is no real barrier to full audio and video delivery by streaming. As bandwidth grows there will be no point to dumbing down the content. There are plenty of silly omissions currently, like Hulu not delivering Dolby Digital on their HBO content on Roku. It's not a matter of settings or content, Hulu just doesn't send it. But I expect that they will by the end of 2019.

Streaming is such a fluid format and is quick to upgrade. For example, CBS posted the first season of Star Trek Discovery in stereo. There was enough outcry from the nerd battalion that Season Two debuted with full Dolby Digital and 2.40:1 aspect ratio.

All said and done I do expect to buy an UHD player this year, probably the new Pioneer Elite. I am waiting to see what the new Anthem AVRs look like, as well as the new 4K projectors this fall. I do not expect a new disc format to follow UHD.
If 5G never comes to an area, that area will be slave to Comcast or whatever cable company serves it. Comcast in my area is fighting streaming by giving their "package" customers 250Mbps internet. For those people to go internet only via cable, they will pay $70-$80 per month for 75Mbps. To get higher speeds, they will pay substantially more .. so much more that streaming no longer makes financial sense. Surprise, surprise.

Once again, a U.S. market has evolved into a system that is designed to fulfill the needs of the businesses and not the needs of the customers. All this while our for the people, by the people government .. really isn't. As long as this is the case, streamed content will be inferior to physical media, played from the disc or ripped and locally streamed. The former has reduced bitrates on video and crippled surround codecs. And it's probably focus-grouped continually to find the sweet spot that is "good enough."

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post #3262 of 3343 Old 04-28-2019, 12:40 PM
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If 5G never comes to an area, that area will be slave to Comcast or whatever cable company serves it. Comcast in my area is fighting streaming by giving their "package" customers 250Mbps internet. For those people to go internet only via cable, they will pay $70-$80 per month for 75Mbps. To get higher speeds, they will pay substantially more .. so much more that streaming no longer makes financial sense. Surprise, surprise.

Jeff
Jeff,
I've seen those deals. We are stuck with 10 meg WISP fixed point wireless. The hardware will carry 1 gig, but the vendor isn't talking about more speed. Frankly 1080P is no punishment, but knowing that there is better is vexing. But they'll get there. 5G is the great hope. Short throw distances in some frequencies makes things difficult. I'm paying $64 for 10 megs down, 10 megs up -- that is better than the $130 I was paying for 5 megs down and no viable streaming.
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...streamed content will be inferior to physical media, played from the disc or ripped and locally streamed. The former has reduced bitrates on video and crippled surround codecs.
Look, there is no reason for cable itself to compress the hell out of the video they send over CABLE, not streaming. And yet they do.

There are literally entire channels my cable provider sends me where the macro-blocking (I think it's called) is so bad that I literally cannot distinguish actors from one another during an action scene. Or even from the furniture.

I do not think the streaming companies will do better once they have the upper hand.
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I do not think the streaming companies will do better once they have the upper hand.
Maybe not -- but the trend with bandwidth and storage is more faster cheaper. The savings won by poor image quality through compression will become vanishingly small if not zero. You could have a point -- somehow cassettes hung on with terrible quality for a decade after CDs came on the scene. The publishers made no effort to improve quality or reliability. I guess why should they -- they sold all they could produce. Kind of like American car companies in the 1970s -- they eventually paid a steep price for their sloth.

Netflix has been quick to push 1080p and in turn 4K. At least they have some eye toward quality. Time will tell.
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Look, there is no reason for cable itself to compress the hell out of the video they send over CABLE, not streaming. And yet they do.


There are literally entire channels my cable provider sends me where the macro-blocking (I think it's called) is so bad that I literally cannot distinguish actors from one another during an action scene. Or even from the furniture.
Actually, it *is* streaming. They are sending A/V content via IP. And, while they have TONS of bandwidth, they are using every bit of it with all of the services they sell. That's why they compress.

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I do not think the streaming companies will do better once they have the upper hand.
Better at what?

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I will continue to buy/rent Blu-ray disks for critical watching until I can stream DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby True HD.


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post #3267 of 3343 Old 04-29-2019, 02:50 PM
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I recently bought an Oppo 93 that will not load any discs. I contacted Oppo Digital and was told that for a flat fee of $99.00 they would take care of any issues the 93 has. I just received an email from Oppo stating...

Dear Bill,

We have received your OPPO product for repair per RMA # ***** and are currently working on it. Your product will be tested for the described problem, repaired, and tested again. Additionally, your product will be cleaned and the latest official firmware installed. Typical turnaround time is 1 to 2 business days, depending on the problem. When we ship your product back (with signature requirement), you will receive a shipment notification e-mail with tracking information.

We regret that your OPPO product required service. However, we hope that you are completely satisfied with your service experience. If you have any questions about this return, you may contact us by replying to this e-mail. When contacting us, please reference your RMA number for faster service.

Best Regards,
Customer Service

As always Oppo's service is outstanding! Oppo has lived up to their word that service for their players would still be available. I know this will not last forever but for a company that is no longer selling universal players their service is still among the best if not the best in the A/V industry.

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My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #3268 of 3343 Old 04-29-2019, 03:26 PM
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Even while they’re winding down they are still firing on all cylinders.
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"The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed." W. Gibson

"I like the future, I'm in it." F. Theater
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post #3269 of 3343 Old 04-29-2019, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
I recently bought an Oppo 93 that will not load any discs. I contacted Oppo Digital and was told that for a flat fee of $99.00 they would take care of any issues the 93 has. I just received an email from Oppo stating...
Bill
That's crazy great. I trashed a DV-981HD last year when I realized the tray no longer worked. Maybe I should have sent it in for repair instead.
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post #3270 of 3343 Old 05-07-2019, 10:31 PM
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Pioneer UDP-LX500


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Thanks so much for that post/recommendation Mbroadus. I am also regretting not picking one up as soon as I heard the news. I figured the only closest match was the cambridge audio CXUHD which now seems out of stock.

I am planning on some upgrades to my set up and really don't want to abandon 3D, DVD-A or SACD (multichannel audio) just yet. Is the Pioneer the best choice these days? I have not looked into a computer set up yet for fear of being overwhelmed and have quite a nice collection of disks that I am dreading the decrease in value of.

Regards,

Vizio m801d ISF calibrated
Anthem MRX 510, MiniDSP 2x4HD/WI-DG
Oppo 103d, Apple TV 4K, GIK MBT Panels
Paradigm studio 20 v5, cc 490, 4 monitor surround 3 v7, PSA V3601 & 2 V1811
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