Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:43 AM
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I just ordered a 203 from crutchfield. I have a Sony 800 and Panasonic 900. This will be my first and last Oppo lol. If I like it I’ll keep it if not I’ll flip it for profit lol 😉
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post #332 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:44 AM
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I have my 103D and 203 connected to my LG C6 I purchased last year which I didn't really need as I was merely future proofing my 3D abilities along with getting the latest 4k technology.... Panel wise I felt like I dodged a bullet for a while but with Oppo going away I certain they were the only company with long term intentions of keeping that offering on their players.
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post #333 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by TravisPNW View Post
I dunno. The LG 970 was $179. The Oppo was $559. If the Oppo was anywhere close to the price of the 970 I'd have bought it. I'd have paid $40 more... $75 more... maybe $100 more... but not $390 more.

Maybe they'd have sold more units with a price comparable to the "el cheapo" players... because you'll never convince me the Oppo was worth 3x more. I didn't care about the lack of streaming options... I stream through the TV apps. I just wanted a player that will play my BR and UHD BR discs. The "quality construction" makes no difference to me either. I could give a rats if the LG has a plastic shell... it's sitting on a shelf playing discs.

I agree the market for discs is shrinking... people want streaming convenience. I'll still buy discs as long as they are available though which hopefully will be a long time. I don't expect UHD disc sales to take off like 1080p BR sales back in the day because streaming is more popular now than it ever was then... but hopefully disc sales will be strong enough to keep up somewhat. I've got over 60 UHD discs in my library in 2 months of ownership... trying to do my part.
My 2 cents worth on the reason of going belly up is: they only sell 1 product, a Universal player, w/ or w/o DAC. Other brand makes all kinds of products. So Oppo is betting all the eggs in 1 basket.

Now, they do have some headphone and portable DAC, but most people don't go w/ their brand on headphone and DAC. So they are mostly a universal player co.

And there are many competition in the same quality range:

Yamaha BD-A1060
Arcam UDP 411
Denon DBP-4010UDCI
Cambridge CXUHD

etc.
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post #334 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
Not to incite a riot here, as I was both an Apple and Oppo fan 10 years ago, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of today's Oppo users are also Apple fans, which is the only rationale for why Oppos were still selling the past couple of years. People love to pay a 2-3x premium for hefty, shiny, metallic enclosed items that don't perform better than the competition, but are looked at as status symbols. However, nobody outside of AVS has heard of Oppo, so not many folks were going to buy the players. If they only had a mid-range product or reduced their prices to reflect the value that someone was getting TODAY from buying their players.
perform better? maybe not.. but last longer and be more reliable?

I IT for a company with over 300 employees, and the employees are allowed to choose their brand of choice for their laptops and phones. What I have seen over the past 12 years or so, is that the apple laptops last for a good 6-7 years, and all other windows based stuff, 2-3 years..

phones are the same. 3-4 years for the iPhones, 2-3 for the android stuff.

And this is a construction company.. the stuff isn't treated very nice.

a premium paid for just a status symbol?? How about a premium paid for premium products..

My opinion is based on my own findings, but I will hold it in higher regards than any idiot telling me they see different because of what the read on the internet, saw from their own personal experience, or heard from a friend.
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post #335 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:49 AM
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I'm certainly glad I own my 203. I had wanted an Oppo for a long time because of their phenomenal reputation. Minor hiccups in the beginning, but fantastic support. First to support Dolby Vision. Excellent tone mapping addition. They are legends for a reason.

As far as content I prefer UHD (for Atmos for now) to streaming for blockbusters. Netflix other streaming is done by my Chromecast Ultra. Random shows or middle of the road movies don't have Atmos or the best visual quality because they don't need it.

The real issue with streaming is that most of the ISPs in the USA are trying to nickel and dime their customers on old tech. Unlimited used to be the norm, but now in the advent of streaming most of them are behind on network upgrades. Hence metered service coming back like dial-up of the early Internet. They again failed to see where the market is going and are balking at making the capital investments to their networks. This being a fact means that streaming UHD services have to re-encode the content to be able to serve the most customers. It's nowhere near the bitrate of the best discs. Streaming is definitely where we are going to end up, but for now discs will remain the norm.
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post #336 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
That’s exactly what I’m doing with my 103D for my region-free content that I don’t get around to burning onto NAS. And buying a backup 203 “just in case” my 203’s UHD loader goes bad and they stop doing unit repair sooner rather than later. I can be in Oppo-land for at least five years, if not more, this way.

Who would have thought Oppo would ultimately become the new Kuro
I'm also considering having a 2nd Oppo on-hand. It also would be a 203, not a 2nd 205. I did the same when Toshiba bailed on HD-DVD; I had the excellent XA2 player with no problems (still works perfectly to this day) but as soon as Toshiba announced killing the players, I drove to the local BestBuy & bought an open box XA3 for $100, in storage just in case.

I'm feeling better about the support situation now that Scott Wilkinson posted his Q&A with Oppo in the 1st post. They told him the Sony/Dolby Vision fix is done & in testing by Dolby. Good news! Just have to wait for the process to be completed, however long that takes. May not get too many new features going forward but at least they seem committed to providing FW fixes for some period of time to come.

Imagine Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer doing that...

I'm with you, I'm not dumping these fantastic players until it dies! Overall best players & best company support I've experienced. They sure beat all 3 Pio players I've had. My $2000 BDP-09 gets flaky, either stumbles on certain ways a disc is authored or the drive weirds out when in use, maybe error correction or laser alignment issues. The 93 ran circles around it, speed & features wise for only $500. The BDP-05 before it was even slower and the later BDP-62 wasn't even in the same league as the older 93.

And you know my history with Pioneer I was an admitted Pio fanboy but it didn't take long to see that Oppo made superior players.
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post #337 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post
I own three 203s and intend to hold on to them. I do hope that they still do the firmware release to support Sony TVs! If they don't that will be a real bummer for me (since I own two TVs that need it).
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https://www.avsforum.com/oppo-announc...-new-products/


"Q: Regarding the UDP-203 and 205 UHD Blu-ray players, have you released a firmware update that addresses the Sony implementation of Dolby Vision in its TVs? If you haven’t issued that update, do you expect to? If so, when?

A: We have firmware that supports Sony’s implementation of Dolby Vision in its TVs. The firmware is undergoing testing by Dolby right now. We hope to make it available to customers as soon as the test concludes that there is no problem with existing Dolby Vison-capable TVs as well as Sony TVs."
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post #338 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
I had an early 4K Blu-Ray Samsung player. To say the picture and sound were the same as the Oppo 203 is an outright lie . Oppo sounded better and had a better picture . The Samsung pushed red , and the sound was no where as good !
Those "early" 4K Samsung decks have been upgraded with multiple software updates, and currently they have , as good a 4k image with HDR10 as any deck available on the market today.

Cheers
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post #339 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Best Buy announced they are no longer selling CDs. Oppo is closing. Redbox revenue continues to drop. The writing is on the wall for physical media. Compressed streaming is not why I built a home theater. Let's not forget that once this happens, data caps and overage fees will become the norm vs the exception.
Don't let Comcast hear you say that. I already bit the bullet and paid $50 a month extra for unlimited data because 1TB per month (that 99.9% of households don't use according to Comcast) isn't enough for my PC, 3 tablets, a laptop and 2 TVs.

My 4K UHD movies are played from disc but I'll stream Netflix and Amazon shows.

Definitely not looking forward to paying Comcast more money. This monthly data cap only took effect in July.

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post #340 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post
I own three 203s and intend to hold on to them. I do hope that they still do the firmware release to support Sony TVs! If they don't that will be a real bummer for me (since I own two TVs that need it).
The firmware is currently in Dolby certification.

Quote:
Q: Regarding the UDP-203 and 205 UHD Blu-ray players, have you released a firmware update that addresses the Sony implementation of Dolby Vision in its TVs? If you haven’t issued that update, do you expect to? If so, when?

A: We have firmware that supports Sony’s implementation of Dolby Vision in its TVs. The firmware is undergoing testing by Dolby right now. We hope to make it available to customers as soon as the test concludes that there is no problem with existing Dolby Vison-capable TVs as well as Sony TVs.
https://www.avsforum.com/oppo-announc...-new-products/

Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post
My 2 cents worth on the reason of going belly up is: they only sell 1 product, a Universal player, w/ or w/o DAC. Other brand makes all kinds of products. So Oppo is betting all the eggs in 1 basket.

Now, they do have some headphone and portable DAC, but most people don't go w/ their brand on headphone and DAC. So they are mostly a universal player co.
They also released the Oppo HA-1 desktop DAC/Amp which I own and love due to its performance and feature set but it was discontinued a year ago.

The problem is that they cater to a niche market.
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post #341 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:51 AM
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I thought they were just a boutique company that caters to a certain market (high end) where in the scheme of things they really couldn’t corner the market with the price they were charging. There is a financial report on the Blu-ray player market maybe that would explain things. But as far as I know the disc market is healthy and won’t be supplanted by streaming anytime soon!
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post #342 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
It's deader than dead - saying it's niche is like saying that HD-DVD isn't dead. Come on, I can draw out this analogy and claim that LaserDisc isn't dead, it's just niche. Just because some obscure symphony decides to release its sounds on its own record label doesn't make SACD niche.
If there are new discs coming out in the format, it's not a dead format. Low volume, for sure, but not dead. There are no new titles coming out on LaserDisc or HD-DVD.
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post #343 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ralarcon View Post
Those "early" 4K Samsung decks have been upgraded with multiple software updates, and currently they have , as good a 4k image with HDR10 as any deck available on the market today.

Cheers
For me it is the speed of the player. Nothing I have used comes close to the speed of the 203. Has the Samsung improved in that department?
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post #344 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
I thought they were just a boutique company that caters to a certain market (high end) where in the scheme of things they really couldn’t corner the market with the price they were charging. There is a financial report on the Blu-ray player market maybe that would explain things. But as far as I know the disc market is healthy and won’t be supplanted by streaming anytime soon!
Healthy? Not anytime soon? Stats paint a different picture of discs, one that looks a lot like a sinking ship.

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post #345 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:56 AM
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They also released the Oppo HA-1 desktop DAC/Amp which I own and love due to its performance and feature set but it was discontinued a year ago.
they discontinued the HA-1 only because the display was discontinued by the manufacturer

and I believe a used HA-1 will still bring a premium price today
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post #346 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:58 AM
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This is shocking news, but think about this...

We will see Oppo-quality universal players spring up from the ashes, in the form of a new company or new product from some existing company. The Oppo engineers and customer support people who were responsible for acquiring such a loyal following and putting out a superior product will find a way to do it again. Market demand always finds a way of being filled. We will have similar high quality, bang for the buck products to fill the void left by this, and I'll bet it won't take long at all. So don't climb out onto that ledge just yet.
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post #347 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post
That may be true. My neighborhood is currently getting google fiber put in and the promise of 1gb streaming.
The days of a streaming service matching the bit-rate of UHD discs is beyond my lifetime


Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
Any possibility of Oppo releasing the firmware source code into the open source market and allow developers to continue their good work?
I hope so. And wouldn't it be a giant erect middle finger were the ultimate firmware release accidentally allow reading of ISO files?

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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
I can speak for myself without violating the NDA (which is still in force: beta testing continues, the new firmware will appear).

  • I did not know this was coming.
  • I feel like someone shot my dog.
  • I suspect many of the causes people speculate about contributed.
  • Physical media declines, this is the "Twilight Time".
  • Yes, UHD is doing well, but so was 3D for a while.
  • Quality costs. Too much.
  • As far as the high cost: note that OPPO was priced direct-to-consumer. If sold through distributors the price would have doubled. (I'm surprised it was available through Amazon; they take a huge slice of the pie).
  • Among audiophiles OPPO is the low-cost "budget" alternative.
  • Lack of apps: I think it was because the vendors are a pain in the ass, reluctant to support a small company. They want eyeballs. Easier to do without.
  • I always thought OPPO would grow just so big and then be sold to one of the major brands who would then slap the label on their own products.
  • Guessing why this didn't happen: years ago a friend had an indie bookstore. He closed it rather than sell it, because all over the country bookstores were closing and no one was buying them. People don't go to indie bookstores and there was no future in it. He and his wife were working hard but not building up any equity.
  • A company can be profitable but just not worth the effort if the margins are too thin. Raise prices? You see the pushback here in this thread.
  • I'm not going anywhere. Still beta testing and I have new material for the FAQ.


-Bill
While UHD is predictably the last of the spinning disc formats there are other solid-state physical media out there. Just saying. Nonetheless, I agree with everything you said.

Thank you Bill for your selfless dedication to all the Oppo forums helping educate us all the while solving problems both small as well as large for the Oppo owner community.

************************************************** **
There are DVD/Blue-ray titles in my library that have ZERO chance of ever getting streamed or making it to the cable content producers' broadcast schedules. Ever! Don't get me wrong. I adore the original content currently offered by the likes of Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu. I think those who extoll the virtues of streaming over discs don't appreciate the vital role we disc owners have as archivists. If you consider cinema an art form how can you ever hand the reins of preservation over to streaming companies? Heck, even Criterion routinely eliminates titles from their catalog. There is so much good independent cinema produced over the last 20 years even if it makes it to disc is likely to disappear once the initial run is sold out. I can't foresee the commercial viability for a streaming service catering to the tastes of the eclectic moviegoer. Not in my lifetime. For me, the Oppo plays a vital roll in my enjoyment of the art form.
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post #348 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:59 AM
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Sorry but reviews basically say the same thing. What you're paying for is the extra "features" that most people dont care about. Like I mentioned - analog audio outs, support for dead CD formats(SACD & DVD Audio), chassis weight, etc. Sure, it is quite possible that the upscaling algorithms are better in the top players are better but anyone with a good TV wil let the TV scale it anyways so that also becomes a non-factor.

What "picture enhancement" stuff do you speak of? I dont want any picture enhancements...I just want whats on the disc to be sent to my TV and thats it.

The same 4K disc int going to look any different on my player or your Oppo. If you can point me to a legit, double blind test where viewer after viewer keeps picking the Oppo over the lower cost players in a shootout then Ill come here and concede. Otherwise, I think you guys are just hunting for verification/validation that your player looks better. Sure, maybe they are built better - I already said that. Maybe they physically look nicer. Maybe they have a cool user group following or whatever. But when the rubber hits the road, aka the disc gets played they dont do anything more than any other player. Unless someone can prove me wrong!
Well not on your tiny screen it won't.. HA! burn.
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post #349 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:59 AM
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Bummer news. My BDP-83 is still in the rack getting use. Anyone else?

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.


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post #350 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post
My 2 cents worth on the reason of going belly up is: they only sell 1 product, a Universal player, w/ or w/o DAC. Other brand makes all kinds of products. So Oppo is betting all the eggs in 1 basket.

Now, they do have some headphone and portable DAC, but most people don't go w/ their brand on headphone and DAC. So they are mostly a universal player co.

And there are many competition in the same quality range:

Yamaha BD-A1060
Arcam UDP 411
Denon DBP-4010UDCI
Cambridge CXUHD

etc.

These players are not competition to the Oppos as 3 of the 4 are not even UHD players and the other is a clone of the Oppo 203




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post #351 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:00 AM
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for those on the fence... just get the 203 and stop worrying.

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post #352 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
they discontinued the HA-1 only because the display was discontinued by the manufacturer

and I believe a used HA-1 will still bring a premium price today
Oh interesting, I wasn't aware that was the reasoning behind it being discontinued.

I have been seeing them go for MSRP, if not more, even before this sad news. That said, I certainly don't want to part with it.
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post #353 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:04 AM
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Here is my thought and many are not going to like it. As an AV enthusiasts we are really to blame for oppo and there demise. We all want the best and all of the options but do not want to pay for it. Think about pioneer plasma, great tvs and owned one from each generation. The Pioneer elites were built like tanks and I never had an issue with any of mine. Pioneer understood what a great tv is. I am sorry but a lg oled which I own is crap in terms of craftsmanship, the parts used are not the best used. Pioneer plasma tv's had special metals used on them and reflected the price. the words Price t and quality should not be used in the same sentence. I own a oppo 203 and really like it before that I owned a Denon 3800BDCi which was $2000, the 203 at $550 is a bargain. I like that the oppo does not have streaming app, that is what I have a appletv for. If we as enthusiasts do not demand new tech every year specialty companies would stay in business longer. You can’t have a great product and not charge a lot for it, you have sell to many. There are other boutique companies that successful but charge thousands for their products not hundreds. I am very sorry to see oppo leaving the game. Think about it, they must have spent allot of money on the 205 /203 and still doing updates to accommodate what the industry keeps on changing. next year HDMI 2.1 is supposed to come out and that means another player so how can you have a great product and sell it for 2 years max, support the firmware and come out with a new one so quickly and make a profit. I bought my Denon 3800DBCi when it first came out i think in 2006 or 2007, the oppo 203 was my next player which i bought 1.5 years ago i think.
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post #354 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Healthy? Not anytime soon? Stats paint a different picture of discs, one that looks a lot like a sinking ship.
I dunno... maybe the iceberg has been sighted? $4.72B is a lot of cash I don't see studios wanting to miss out on.

It's not like disc sales are generating blockbuster video sales numbers.

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post #355 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisPNW View Post
I dunno... maybe the iceberg has been sighted? $4.72B is a lot of cash I don't see studios wanting to miss out on.

It's not like disc sales are generating blockbuster video sales numbers.
Yeah, it is for sure still a lot of money but it is more the YoY trend. A 14% decrease is notable.
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post #356 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:13 AM
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It's worth a try.


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post #357 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:15 AM
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I had an early 4K Blu-Ray Samsung player. To say the picture and sound were the same as the Oppo 203 is an outright lie . Oppo sounded better and had a better picture . The Samsung pushed red , and the sound was no where as good !
The Sammy does push red out of the box. Setting the players picture mode to User and zeroing everything out mitigates that problem. Sound? Nah - my player is set to passthrough which means it sends the bits to the AVR and then its out of the chain. Sure, some users here have 3 million dollar speakers or whatever. Great. But that doesnt have anything to with the disc player. Perhaps the Oppo supports more audio codes or whatever but lossless passthrough is lossless passthrough. Thats it.

Maybe I place too much faith in certain reviewers but on more than one occasion the Oppo reviews come back as saying that if you are not going to use the players extra features, like analog outs, SACD support, etc then you are gaining nothing in tangible PQ benefits over any other competent player. I guess it doesnt matter. Its over anyways.

We'll just have to "slum" it with the offerings from Sony, Samsung and LG. It wont affect my enjoyment of watching stuff on my great OLED in glorious 4K and 3D. So, whatever!

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post #358 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:17 AM
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Wow, this is strange...

Just a few hours before reading this announcement, I have decided to sell my (almost new) OPPO UDP-203...

I bought it a year ago when it came out. Back then, the only way to play UHD bluray was to insert them in a tray...not anymore.

Now that I have ripped all of my UHD blurays to my server, this new OPPO would only be used for the (very) infrequent SACD listening session.

The good news is I have already adjusted my asking price and I am in no rush to sell!
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post #359 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:17 AM
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I have a 983H, 83, 103 and 203. They are still being used and have been perfect. I always prefer to buy the best and these products have been that. Great company that will be missed.
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post #360 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 10:19 AM
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Well I'm not surprised, as soon as I got 100mbs service from Spectrum and an LG Oled, 4k streaming became a real thing. It made me rethink physical media. Having Atmos in the tv is a big deal for me since so few BD has it. I actually get to make use of my 5.4.4 system.

Oppo is just following the Pioneer Kuro and all the other plasmas in the race to the bottom. They did their duty and now streaming is ready to take over. The real problem is hdr formats, they keep changing.
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