Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabraal View Post
Fiber is growing at a rather fast pace.

I am a fan of physical media because as a AV enthusiast I want the best. Even though my friends think I'm weird..

But four years ago I had a 4mbps uncapped fiber account (not even close to the requirements for a then old BD spesification). For the same price I paid back then it is now 100mbps (pretty much on par with the requirements of a UHD disc). What will it be in the next four years?

It's getting cheaper and faster as time goes by. At a rather fast pace.

If your internet speed starts exceeding the bit-rate requirements of a physical media disc, I guess there is no more need for the physical media disc.

I don't think this is the death-knell just yet. But it's sure approaching.
Population density in the area where you live makes a big difference on how fast you see this happening. The ISPs focus on high-density areas, esp apartments and condos. Those of us that live in less dense environments (and are loving it) aren't seeing a fast growth in fibre availability.

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #392 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Heaven forbid - - slowed down to 250 mbps? That must be a crawl compared to what you are used to. Gee, anyone remember "baud rates" and watching the letters slowly being typed across your terminal?

I understand the issue of data caps but what's the fastest anybody streams content these days? 25 mbps? Less?
Looks like you didn't catch where I said "I know, first world problems" and also mentioned I specifically chose this alternative ISP because of that speed but others are not as lucky, don't have the option I have and start paying fees.

And yes, I remember having a 2400 baud modem back in the day. Your username checks out.
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post #393 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 11:50 AM
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I really wonder what shape Oppo would have been in today had 4K UHD not entered the picture. Even though the end result of the 203 and 205 were successful I always had this feeling that they may have jumped into these UHD waters much sooner than they would have preferred to. When the BDP 83 launched other manufactures were already on to their 2nd Blu Ray models before the Oppo finally released unlike this time where they were one of the 1st. Had a few more years gone by where Oppo and the industry could catch their breath on Blu Ray and really good 4k upscaling players I'm betting we wouldn't be here today. Development is expensive and we are just barely out of the gate on UHD and further changes are already coming down the road. I think I'd be throwing my hands up in the air by this point too!
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post #394 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Chaves View Post
This is sooo sad, so does that also mean their Cellphone division is also shutting down? or is it only their AV side of the business?
Nope just the " US Audio division".
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post #395 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Heaven forbid - - slowed down to 250 mbps? That must be a crawl compared to what you are used to. Gee, anyone remember "baud rates" and watching the letters slowly being typed across your terminal?

I understand the issue of data caps but what's the fastest anybody streams content these days? 25 mbps? Less?

No matter what happens to OPPO, I've been very glad to have experienced their fine product and service. I can still remember the day I received my OPPO 103 with the components elegantly packaged within a very neat box. One look at the thick manual and the build quality and you felt special. As I neatly placed my OPPO on my rack, I knew that I had one of the best Bluray players around. And then, the performance was "lights out." Still is!
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Looks like you didn't catch where I said "I know, first world problems" and also mentioned I specifically chose this alternative ISP because of that speed but others are not as lucky, don't have the option I have and start paying fees.

And yes, I remember having a 2400 baud modem back in the day. Your username checks out.
I love these trips down memory lane... firing up the Commodore Amiga 500 with the 1200 baud modem to dial up to the local BBS so I could get in and play Global War before the midnight reset.

The jump to 2400 baud was pretty good... but I didn't really start doing cartwheels till the 9600 baud modem came out.

BLAZING!
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post #396 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:06 PM
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What is the best DLNA capable network player that is as good or beats the Oppo's audio DAC? Currently using a BDP-95 for DLNA local network audio streaming.
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post #397 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:12 PM
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As someone with a collection of SACD, DVD-A and Blu Ray Audio discs this is really terrible news.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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post #398 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
What is the best DLNA capable network player that is as good or beats the Oppo's audio DAC? Currently using a BDP-95 for DLNA local network audio streaming.
There's a lot.

http://innuos.com/en/go/products

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post #399 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:17 PM
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You all may laugh at my antiquated equipment, but I plan on buying a 205 to decode the latest Dolby formats that my older Krell processor cannot do. The Krell does, however, have a 7.1 input, which is more than enough for me.

The fact that the Oppo can decode Dolby/DTS sources is very nice. Yes, ultimately I know I need to bite the bullet and get a new processor, but $6k for a new Krell Foundation is pricey.

There is still a LOT of value in the Oppo players for some.

Chris
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post #400 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:19 PM
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Over a year ago I felt the only way Oppo had a chance survive is if they added the best media/streaming capabilities they could to the box along with the physical transport. I wrote twice to them, but who the hell am I... Make it a bridge device. Or perhaps release a standalone media player if that would help avoid certain licensing issues. LEVERAGE your reputation...

Now you have all these media players tripping over one another, all UHD 4k HDR capable; meanwhile Oppo couldn't even figure out how to offer Netflix or Amazon.

Ultimately, nothing may have saved them, but they needed to try and wrap their "legendary" hw/sw around newer delivery formats some time ago. It be came too late for them.
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post #401 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:21 PM
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I may pick up a second 203 for the inevitable need for a second UHD player. Such a bummer.
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post #402 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klimo View Post
If they could. They would have. And would most likely not be shutting down if their revenues were double.


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They couldn't have, and they still would have. Like magic said, the Oppos are a loss to the audio crowd mostly.

The Oppos were a niche, and that is a hard business to be in, and physical media is dying, without streaming services ect, its a waste of money to "Most"

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post #403 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:21 PM
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I must be in the minority here, and it wouldn't be the first time as the wife likes to tell me I'm old and in the way. But I don't want apps in my player. I don't want apps in my tv. Just give me a kick ass, no holds barred monitor and UHD player with no android this or that, no streaming doohickies, just a sweet picture. Oppo delivered this in spades with the 203/205. I have other gizmos to do the streaming for me.
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post #404 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:24 PM
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I can see why Oppo is going out of the blu-ray business. I think the expectations of its customer base is too high. I just recently saw on this forum someone opening a thread about a BDP-305 when they probably have not recouped their investment for the 205. While I never owned an OPPO, I did keep the BDP-95 for about 25 days and I thought it was the best constructed blu-ray player I ever seen. This may be the last of the high end blu-ray players.
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post #405 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:26 PM
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It's pretty common to see Oppo stores in large malls all over Asia. The few times I have wandered in all I saw were cell phones and accessories.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
BBK the parent company makes cell phones for One-Plus and Oppo. They will continue and sell millions of phones. I guess the market was just too small for the type of products Oppo was trying to sell. Very sad indeed.

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post #406 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
I must be in the minority here, and it wouldn't be the first time as the wife likes to tell me I'm old and in the way. But I don't want apps in my player. I don't want apps in my tv. Just give me a kick ass, no holds barred monitor and UHD player with no android this or that, no streaming doohickies, just a sweet picture. Oppo delivered this in spades with the 203/205. I have other gizmos to do the streaming for me.
Yes, but physical disc is on the downward trend line...UHD and less than ideal internet for speeds are keeping it alive for now, but eventually....

And the Oppo is no better than the Sony 1000 or even Panny 900 from a UHD perspective.

Finally, having a "bona-fide" alternative to a Zapitti or Zidoo would be a nice and natural progression for the enthusiast, while broader support for other commercial services at least doesn't give those considering a reason to say no.

So I get what you're saying, but they needed to innovate.

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post #407 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Riot Nrrrd View Post
Speaking of which ... I went to eBay to check for the expected price gouging (and found it), but was surprised to see a lot of listings for "Region-free" UDP-203's - all commanding a heavy premium (like US $250 or more) over the base cost that Oppo charges on their site for one. Is this some kind of delicate, intricate hardware mod that has some ridiculously expensive part and/or major labor time to create that justifies the large premium?
So the deal with the UDP-203 is that Oppo has been under significant legal pressure (the sort of pressure that threatens to litigate them into bankruptcy) due to the ease with which their products can be modded to not just bypass region and copyright controls, but also play back ripped media. It was much easier on their previous players, which is a large part of why they hold their value so well. With the UDP-203 the firmware mods were broken around the same time DV support was added. If you are buying a "region-free" UDP that is not hardware modded it is likely an older model that is stuck on an old hacked firmware. There are also hardware mods but they are clunkier in how they work (require manual switching) and don't provide all the special features that firmware modding did. The sellers of hardware modded players like to charge an additional premium for doing the job of installing the actual mod.
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post #408 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFoote View Post
You all may laugh at my antiquated equipment, but I plan on buying a 205 to decode the latest Dolby formats that my older Krell processor cannot do. The Krell does, however, have a 7.1 input, which is more than enough for me.

The fact that the Oppo can decode Dolby/DTS sources is very nice. Yes, ultimately I know I need to bite the bullet and get a new processor, but $6k for a new Krell Foundation is pricey.

There is still a LOT of value in the Oppo players for some.

Chris
Similar story here.. I myself purchased the 203 specifically for the analog outs. It's the only way I can enjoy hi-res formats on BD or UHD without having to buy a whole new processor as well. I'm still on a non-hdmi pre/pro myself. Which as you stated; it's economical to get a nice Oppo that has good internal processing and use your receiver/processor as a pre. Not too upset about it either.. Not sure how many processors I would have to go through to keep up with all the HDMI resolution/audio specs in the last decade.. 1080p pass thru, then 4k, 4k w/hdr or SS formats DTS:MA but now need Dolby Atmos or DTS:X(which admittedly we cannot do).


Granted, we don't get the nice HDMI switching, but it's a small price to pay.
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post #409 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:44 PM
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Over a year ago I felt the only way Oppo had a chance survive is if they added the best media/streaming capabilities they could to the box along with the physical transport. I wrote twice to them, but who the hell am I... Make it a bridge device. Or perhaps release a standalone media player if that would help avoid certain licensing issues. LEVERAGE your reputation...

Now you have all these media players tripping over one another, all UHD 4k HDR capable; meanwhile Oppo couldn't even figure out how to offer Netflix or Amazon.

Ultimately, nothing may have saved them, but they needed to try and wrap their "legendary" hw/sw around newer delivery formats some time ago. It be came too late for them.
Freakin' partner with Kaleidescape & stick 1 TB of flash storage on the thing to hold the downloads. Sell it for $999, skip the analog nonsense. Make SURE it runs Netflix and Vudu and Amazon and Hulu and YouTube, duh. I dunno.

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post #410 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:46 PM
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I'm torn. I talked to my wife. I had mentioned earlier this year I wanted to upgrade my audio player. I have a 95 for 2 channel audio and a 203 for video. I told her today about oppo and the 205 being discontinued. She told me to buy one. I had planned one major upgrade this year and that was upgrading my cans from sennheiser 650 to 800s. Decisions decisions...

Do I get the 205 or just go along with my 95 for audio for as long as it lasts and get the Senn 800s?

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post #411 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jszei View Post
These don't seem to have analog outputs so they won't work for me

They seem hard to find in my searches I've only found some discontinued Marantz/Pioneer's and a Cambridge 851N which I think will meet my needs

Wonder what I'm doing wrong in searches as these product don't seem very common

I just want a fairly high end network audio player that specializes in DLNA/UPNP playback, has a remote and a screen big enough to see the music i want to play with a great analog outputs.
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post #412 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
They seem hard to find in my searches I've only found some discontinued Marantz/Pioneer's and a Cambridge 851N which I think will meet my needs

Wonder what I'm doing wrong in searches as these product don't seem very common

I just want a fairly high end network audio player that specializes in DLNA/UPNP playback

Start here:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/

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post #413 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by EvLee View Post
So the deal with the UDP-203 is that Oppo has been under significant legal pressure (the sort of pressure that threatens to litigate them into bankruptcy) due to the ease with which their products can be modded to not just bypass region and copyright controls, but also play back ripped media. It was much easier on their previous players, which is a large part of why they hold their value so well. With the UDP-203 the firmware mods were broken around the same time DV support was added. If you are buying a "region-free" UDP that is not hardware modded it is likely an older model that is stuck on an old hacked firmware. There are also hardware mods but they are clunkier in how they work (require manual switching) and don't provide all the special features that firmware modding did. The sellers of hardware modded players like to charge an additional premium for doing the job of installing the actual mod.
Given that Hollywood has all but given up on region restricted media, I seriously doubt Oppo received undo legal pressure from the studios. After all, UHDs are region-free. It's only a matter of time before this reaches down to standard Blu-ray discs. What would be the argument to maintain the bifurcation?

Don't you just wish HDMI would crawl off to some darkened corner and die a sad, lonely death?
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post #414 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:00 PM
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Outside of the lack of streaming apps, I quite like the 203, and although I'm sad to see Oppo exit the disc player market, I'll be happy as long as there's a UHD player out there that offers everything below in one box:
  • Media-playing capability (Windows SMB, DLNA)
  • Always-on analog outputs w/ basic distance/levels/crossover control
  • 4K/DV/Atmos Netflix
  • gapless FLAC playback
  • Dual-HDMI output
  • Eventual HDMI 2.1 support
  • 3rd-party multi-region blu-ray support

SACD/DVD-A support, HDMI input, superior DAC I can live without.

Basically, just about everything the OPPO can do, with built-in Netflix.
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post #415 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Over a year ago I felt the only way Oppo had a chance survive is if they added the best media/streaming capabilities they could to the box along with the physical transport. I wrote twice to them, but who the hell am I... Make it a bridge device. Or perhaps release a standalone media player if that would help avoid certain licensing issues. LEVERAGE your reputation...

Now you have all these media players tripping over one another, all UHD 4k HDR capable; meanwhile Oppo couldn't even figure out how to offer Netflix or Amazon.

Ultimately, nothing may have saved them, but they needed to try and wrap their "legendary" hw/sw around newer delivery formats some time ago. It be came too late for them.
One thing that was a killer for me (i.e. holding me back from buying a 203) is the lack of support for BD-ISO/BDMV. I know their hands were tied and they had to play nice with the Blu-ray Association to keep their license so that's why they didn't support BD ISO. Meanwhile the media players like Dune or eGreat or Popcorn Hour were supporting the format, which is a huge enticement to people that rip discs to RAID/NAS devices. Oppo were in a no-win situation in that aspect.
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post #416 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:00 PM
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I'm not surprised about this news. Here is why:

1.) A long long time ago (3 years ago), Oppo made a much better looking video player as compared to the competition. Today, the picture quality on inexpensive products has skyrocketed. So while Oppo still win with test patterns, it seems people are not willing to spend 3X more for video quality that they don't easily see.

2.) Silver disks are plummeting in sales. People now stream their movies and rip them to their NAS. That's how I roll. I really don't care about an expensive player (I use to have a 103). If a player doesn't have streaming services, they are fighting a steep uphill battle.

3.) The sales distribution channel was very limited. Like many dealers, I passed on the line. Their 10 points margin wasn't worth the hassle. That's before freight, credit card fees, overhead and my silent "business partner" known as the government in the form of taxes. In short, not many dealers sold them which limited their sales.

4.) Niche features like analog out cater to a very small subset of people. There isn't the sales volume to justify a product like that (and at their price point). Prepro's and receivers already has great sounding digital to analog converters. Why do I what that in a DVD player again that doesn't stream??

The bottom line is there was a paradigm shift in the industry and they didn't follow the cheese. Who knows, maybe someone would be willing to buy them and keep the company alive. I wonder if they will actually support their products or is a way NOT to trash their brand name (think salvage value). I fear (IMHO) that it might be an empty promise to support a warranty when you have no money. We might find out soon.... I could imagine they are telling people now to inform the market/potential buyer that they still have inventory if someone wants them. That's how I am seeing it play out. I predict their timing to announce now (while they have inventory and they are still loved) was a business decision 1st and foremost.
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Last edited by SteveH; 04-03-2018 at 03:45 PM.
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post #417 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kabraal View Post
Fiber is growing at a rather fast pace.

I am a fan of physical media because as a AV enthusiast I want the best. Even though my friends think I'm weird..

But four years ago I had a 4mbps uncapped fiber account (not even close to the requirements for a then old BD spesification). For the same price I paid back then it is now 100mbps (pretty much on par with the requirements of a UHD disc). What will it be in the next four years?

It's getting cheaper and faster as time goes by. At a rather fast pace.

If your internet speed starts exceeding the bit-rate requirements of a physical media disc, I guess there is no more need for the physical media disc.

I don't think this is the death-knell just yet. But it's sure approaching.
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Population density in the area where you live makes a big difference on how fast you see this happening. The ISPs focus on high-density areas, esp apartments and condos. Those of us that live in less dense environments (and are loving it) aren't seeing a fast growth in fibre availability.
Be careful, it seems that more and more cable/fiber companies are adding data limits to their plans. If they can't sell you TV and movies, they will increase the plan price and decrease data limits to the point that they are making more $$ so that you can watch video from other sources.

It's a really nasty merry-go-round of trying to save a buck now-a-days.
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post #418 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:06 PM
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This is hysterical. Take a Dune HD, toss a "massive" (lol) 6 TB drive inside, slap it inside a snazzy case and charge £ 2,899 for it??

What was that P.T. Barnum quote again ...
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post #419 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:06 PM
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There are DVD/Blue-ray titles in my library that have ZERO chance of ever getting streamed or making it to the cable content producers' broadcast schedules. Ever! Don't get me wrong. I adore the original content currently offered by the likes of Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu. I think those who extoll the virtues of streaming over discs don't appreciate the vital role we disc owners have as archivists. If you consider cinema an art form how can you ever hand the reins of preservation over to streaming companies? Heck, even Criterion routinely eliminates titles from their catalog. There is so much good independent cinema produced over the last 20 years even if it makes it to disc is likely to disappear once the initial run is sold out. I can't foresee the commercial viability for a streaming service catering to the tastes of the eclectic moviegoer. Not in my lifetime. For me, the Oppo plays a vital roll in my enjoyment of the art form.
^ THIS ^

I own the Oppo 203 and have never put a 4k disc in it. Some people fail to realize that not everyone just watches the latest and greatest super hero franchises or whatever other "blockbusters" are coming out of Hollywood. Those of us with more obscure tastes still have to rely on physical media.
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post #420 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:09 PM
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As someone with a collection of SACD, DVD-A and Blu Ray Audio discs this is really terrible news.
Yes and no, I'm sure you already have at least one player from them, and they still selling them as we speak. I just bought one from Audio Advisor, no tax, free shipping, which will bring it to my third Oppo in my stable. I think I'll be set for years and years between them to play those discs.

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