Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:15 PM
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What do you use to stream/playback all that content? Oppos were always brilliant network streamers capable of streaming even heaviest of bitrates over Gigabit LAN and they have done that with excellent quality video and with easy to use interface. Dune HD or Shield picture quality was much weaker while Sony/LG/Samsung could not even stream most of the content over LAN.

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Now that I have ripped all of my UHD blurays to my server, this new OPPO would only be used for the (very) infrequent SACD listening session.
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post #422 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Riot Nrrrd View Post
"You get what you pay for."
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post #423 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post
What do you use to stream/playback all that content? Oppos were always brilliant network streamers capable of streaming even heaviest of bitrates over Gigabit LAN and they have done that with excellent quality video and with easy to use interface. Dune HD or Shield picture quality was much weaker while Sony/LG/Samsung could not even stream most of the content over LAN.
Actually the interface on the Oppo for local streaming is sub par and buggy at least on the 103 it is,[ my 203 was just ordered hoping it is better] and it had playback issues and freezes as well. My Shield does have a barely noticeable downgraded picture VS Oppo, but with the Kodi/SMPC app that had been largely eliminated, and plays 3D as well, oh and no Cinavia which the 203 supports now for local streaming which can be an issue for some rips. In other words there is really not one box solution out there that I would call "perfect" or even great, one must use multiple devices for that or live with the compromises. YMMV

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post #424 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post
Yes and no, I'm sure you already have at least one player from them, and they still selling them as we speak. I just bought one from Audio Advisor, no tax, free shipping, which will bring it to my third Oppo in my stable. I think I'll be set for years and years between them to play those discs.
my 3rd as well

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post #425 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:33 PM
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Darn. I was really looking forward to the OPPO 8K Player with Holodeck Vision. Where do nerds go now?
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post #426 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:41 PM
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I see, perhaps Shield improved. I tested Shield + Kodi 6 months ago against 203 and Sony 800 and it was no comparison to my eyes, everything suffered on Shield, sharpness, colors, gamma curve. Disclosure I did that comparison on 110" inch screen via Sony HW40ES projector. Sony 800 UHD plauyer could not even stream my recorded TV shows saying could not support the container same for the Jellyfish test files. Oppo played them all and picture was just stunning. You are right, with Oppo demise we will need to wire 10 different devices: one for physical disks, another one for OTA captured recordings, another one for music, etc. = convoluted interfaces.


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My Shield does have a barely noticeable downgraded picture VS Oppo, but with the Kodi/SMPC app that had been largely eliminated, and plays 3D as well, oh and no Cinavia which the 203 supports now for local streaming which can be an issue for some rips. In other words there is really not one box solution out there that I would call "perfect" or even great, one must use multiple devices for that or live with the compromises. YMMV
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post #427 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:46 PM
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I guess I better baby my 203 since I don't want to break it, and tbh, it might be the single greatest media player I've ever used.
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post #428 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Operon View Post
There are DVD/Blue-ray titles in my library that have ZERO chance of ever getting streamed or making it to the cable content producers' broadcast schedules. Ever! Don't get me wrong. I adore the original content currently offered by the likes of Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu. I think those who extoll the virtues of streaming over discs don't appreciate the vital role we disc owners have as archivists.
Same feelings here. Not to mention, I do thoroughly enjoy the extras discs, that, to my knowledge are not available for streaming. Maybe they are? Can you stream with commentary? Maybe you can? I know I can get when I'm buying the discs. Streaming has it's place and convenience factor, but it is over-rate at this point in time, and not nearly as capable as physical media. But all good things come to end, and give way to lifestyle changes; the pursuit of cheapness and instant gratification. Oh well, I get it....
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post #429 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 01:58 PM
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So now we only have cheapo players made of plastic for our UHD discs? lol
Plastic discs for plastic players!

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post #430 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post
I see, perhaps Shield improved. I tested Shield + Kodi 6 months ago against 203 and Sony 800 and it was no comparison to my eyes, everything suffered on Shield, sharpness, colors, gamma curve. Disclosure I did that comparison on 110" inch screen via Sony HW40ES projector. Sony 800 UHD plauyer could not even stream my recorded TV shows saying could not support the container same for the Jellyfish test files. Oppo played them all and picture was just stunning. You are right, with Oppo demise we will need to wire 10 different devices: one for physical disks, another one for OTA captured recordings, another one for music, etc. = convoluted interfaces.
hmmm... my Sony x800 plays my TV show files and plays the Jelly Fish video files. Although you need to use it's wifi connection to reliably play the higher bitrate ones that are over 95Mb/s. Since it's wired connection is only 100BT. With it's wireless connection I can play much higher bitrate files.

Of course there are plenty of other files where the Sony won't play the audio of the video file. Which is why a 203 would be nice. Since Oppo doesn't plan on manufacturing ending until June or so. I should still have plenty of time to pick up another 203 if I want to. There are definitely times that I wish I had not sold my 203 I had last year.

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post #431 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 02:06 PM
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One thing that was a killer for me (i.e. holding me back from buying a 203) is the lack of support for BD-ISO/BDMV. I know their hands were tied and they had to play nice with the Blu-ray Association to keep their license so that's why they didn't support BD ISO. Meanwhile the media players like Dune or eGreat or Popcorn Hour were supporting the format, which is a huge enticement to people that rip discs to RAID/NAS devices. Oppo were in a no-win situation in that aspect.
New Popcorn Hour players no long support SACD ISO and they haven't update the A500 firmware for a long time now. I doubt I will see any updates going forward. That leaves the A500 a very slow and buggy player without BD menu. The Dune situation does not look any better either. It is too bad Oppo is out of this business. Just ordered another 203 as spare.
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post #432 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 02:24 PM
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I'm seeing a lot of news reports following Oppo Digital's decision to exit the disc player market from the "streaming is eating into physical media market share" angle. That might have played some part, but it ignores the fact that most of Oppo's players had Netflix, Hulu, Vudu etc support built in as well. Not only that, but their high quality players were priced at enthusiasts who are more likely to want physical media over low-quality online video.

As I argued in my article on HDTVtest.co.uk, Oppo's decision probably has more to do with the fact that standard Blu-ray Disc players you can pick up at Best Buy for $80 typically produce the same picture quality as Oppo's $600 tanks when playing actual Blu-ray (their cheap plastic build quality and DVD playback quality is a different matter). There was a big difference in the quality of upscaling DVD players, which is where Oppo originally found their niche, but the gap narrowed to the point of almost non-existence with BD.

I think the high quality of Blu-ray itself was ultimately their undoing. Oppo's products served a purpose (high quality deinterlacing and scaling) that became less and less relevant.
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post #433 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SteroMAdMAn View Post
Similar story here.. I myself purchased the 203 specifically for the analog outs. It's the only way I can enjoy hi-res formats on BD or UHD without having to buy a whole new processor as well. I'm still on a non-hdmi pre/pro myself. Which as you stated; it's economical to get a nice Oppo that has good internal processing and use your receiver/processor as a pre. Not too upset about it either.. Not sure how many processors I would have to go through to keep up with all the HDMI resolution/audio specs in the last decade.. 1080p pass thru, then 4k, 4k w/hdr or SS formats DTS:MA but now need Dolby Atmos or DTS:X(which admittedly we cannot do).


Granted, we don't get the nice HDMI switching, but it's a small price to pay.
Not to get off topic, but HDMI has been such a mess since its inception - I can't even keep the damn plugs inserted since there's no locking mechanism, yet we're up to HDMI v99.351 now

Back on topic, it's a shame the majority of the upcoming generation doesn't care about quality. High-end is a dieing breed.

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post #434 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 02:49 PM
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I am honestly dumbfounded at the timing of this announcement for me personally.

I have been keeping up on and lusting after Oppo players for nearly a decade, but never had the finances for one. While upgrading my entire setup I finally placed my order late friday night for the UHD-203 to finally get my first Oppo.

Furiously rechecking all weekend on the status of my order and it ships out Monday, literally an hour and some change before the starting of this thread.

I'm not sure if that makes me lucky that I picked one up while the getting was good, or it makes me a jinx. Either way, it's funny how things work out some times.
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post #435 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dallastt View Post
For those saying they won’t hold value. I sold my Oppo 93 for $240 about a month ago on eBay. Show me another 8 year old Blu-ray player that would have sold for that lol.
While what you say is no doubt true.. show me another Bdp you paid that much for to start?
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post #436 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 02:50 PM
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Just ordered another UDP-203 from Oppo. I'm in the camp of "nobody else makes an equivalent product" so I wanted a back-up unit.
I wonder if this will motivate Marantz to offer a universal player again?

The lack of streaming apps in the UDP-203 is not an issue to me. If you want streaming with lots of apps to choose from, put a Roku and/or Amazon Fire TV in your system. The UDP-203 has an HDMI input to accommodate putting a streaming device on without chewing up inputs on your AVR or TV. I never used the apps that were in the BDP-103 because I ordered mine with a Roku Streaming Stick. In those days, Oppo offered that as a $50 option on new BDP-103 orders! The streaming apps on the Roku were better than the ones built-in to the Oppo. So to me, it did not make sense for Oppo to re-invent the wheel with a streaming app platform. Amazon, Apple, and Roku are already firmly entrenched and have a much wider selection of apps.
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post #437 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 02:51 PM
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I ordered a 203 in the middle of the night after reading about this.

I started with an 83, upgraded it to a 83SE, then sold it and got 95, didn't use the analog outs too much so traded for a 93 which I've been using for years. I added an external darbie so I skipped the 103D. I've had my eye on the 203 but have been using an Xbox one S for UHD. I do have a decent SACD and DVD-A collection since i adopted it when the formats began. I don't want those to die just yet. I'll probably throw my 93 region free on ebay in the coming weeks or may hang on to it....

I'm definitely a disc guy and not a streamer.
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post #438 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 02:54 PM
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You mean $1000 blu-ray players aren’t a profitable business? Shocking.
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post #439 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteroMAdMAn View Post
Well yeah, if you are just going to run audio out on your HDMI to your $400 receiver and let it do the surround sound processing and your display do the scaling. This product really isn't for you. But then again you already knew that and just wanted to come in here to hear yourself talk I assume?

Oppos have pretty consistently ranked tops in PQ going back years now. I do agree that others can match it in PQ and if all you want is something for BD/UHD playback and streaming apps, you are better off saving a few bucks and just getting a Sony, Panny or whatever is on sale at the time. However focusing on the 1 area that gives your argument a touch of credence sounds a bit silly. PQ is just a small portion of what Oppo does right with these players.
Hmmm. Its an internet forum so there isnt anything for me to "hear" regarding "hearing myself talk". There is NO scaling taking place when you send a native 4K signal to my TV which is also native 4K. Sure, I still have 1080p blu-rays but still let my TV handle the upconversion. Looks fabulous. Zero issues or concerns. The sound quality is also just ducky in my modest arrangement. Lossless is lossless.

Oh - focusing on PQ is exactly what we should be doing! The UHD players main task is to play discs and produce PQ. Its priority #1 . So yeah, because pretty much ANY player out there displays a terrific UHD image on a good TV certainly does give it a lot of "credence". Me and many others have already correctly stated that all of that other "fluff" that these Oppos do is not applicable to a huge number of people. Those are the facts. SACD support? Analog audio outs? DVD audio support? Like tits on a boar hog for most people. Useless. IMO, Oppo should have ditched some of that and made a solid $299 player. Too late now.

Dolby Vision support is "useful" but HDR gets the job done and quite frankly its silly for peope to have to screw around with multiple HDR formats. Its just dumb. Pick one and lets roll with it. What other "must-have" features are there? Ill answer - none. Its ALL about the PQ and the ability to play discs that the owner inserts into the tray. For this, there are plenty of players out there handle this perfectly well.

Sorry we disagree. The market has spoken, right?

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I'm seeing a lot of news reports following Oppo Digital's decision to exit the disc player market from the "streaming is eating into physical media market share" angle. That might have played some part, but it ignores the fact that most of Oppo's players had Netflix, Hulu, Vudu etc support built in as well. Not only that, but their high quality players were priced at enthusiasts who are more likely to want physical media over low-quality online video.

As I argued in my article on HDTVtest.co.uk, Oppo's decision probably has more to do with the fact that standard Blu-ray Disc players you can pick up at Best Buy for $80 typically produce the same picture quality as Oppo's $600 tanks when playing actual Blu-ray (their cheap plastic build quality and DVD playback quality is a different matter). There was a big difference in the quality of upscaling DVD players, which is where Oppo originally found their niche, but the gap narrowed to the point of almost non-existence with BD.

I think the high quality of Blu-ray itself was ultimately their undoing. Oppo's products served a purpose (high quality deinterlacing and scaling) that became less and less relevant.
Your bolded paragraph sums this whole thing up perfectly. A while back, when we were still trying to get good upscaling and whatever else it made a LOT more sense to pay more for a top player like the Oppos. I get that. But, as you said, times have changed. The "basic" players produce an indentical UHD image and most good TVs also scale very well. And, DVD upscaling is an extremely small concern for most people these days. Im sure the Oppos handle that better but its not enough to justify their cost.

So, yeah - Oppos strengths did become less relevant. And, supporting micro-niche 2-channel CD formats is great but it cant help sustain the product line. Anyone into high end 2-channle audio would be using a specific CD player or a discrete DAC all that stuff.
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post #440 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:07 PM
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so whats the down n dirty? did someone steal all their ip?

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post #441 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:08 PM
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You mean $1000 blu-ray players aren’t a profitable business? Shocking.
High-end Blu-ray players are a niche product, but there are use cases for the Oppo UDP-205 that aren't covered by any other player I know of.
It has an upgraded analog section over the $549 lower-end model, the UDP-203.

The UDP-205 is also a USB DAC that can accept input from a computer. It becomes a high-end "sound card" for the computer that can play back PCM and DSD bitstreams. A comparable DAC is $800 on its own, so the UDP-205 is already a better value proposition than buying a UDP-203 + separate stereo DAC.

Both the 203 and 205 are universal players, for those who have SACD and DVD-A discs in their collections. The big Japanese companies like Sony and Panasonic gave up on those formats years ago. DVD-A discs may be backed up via computer, but not SACDs ... need a dedicated player for those as they are unreadable on a computer. And a dedicated SACD player of comparable quality would be about $800.

So ... $1,300 for the UDP-205 was not unreasonable given that in one box, it has the functionality of three different components costing $2,100 total.
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post #442 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nickel-Eye View Post
I am honestly dumbfounded at the timing of this announcement for me personally.

I have been keeping up on and lusting after Oppo players for nearly a decade, but never had the finances for one. While upgrading my entire setup I finally placed my order late friday night for the UHD-203 to finally get my first Oppo.

Furiously rechecking all weekend on the status of my order and it ships out Monday, literally an hour and some change before the starting of this thread.

I'm not sure if that makes me lucky that I picked one up while the getting was good, or it makes me a jinx. Either way, it's funny how things work out some times.
If the demand is high enough due to this news, I suppose OPPO might run out of current inventory. But they have stated that the last production run of new 203 and 205 players is not due to arrive until June.

I.e., there are still more coming!
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post #443 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:09 PM
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Dolby Vision support is "useful" but HDR gets the job done and quite frankly its silly for peope to have to screw around with multiple HDR formats. Its just dumb. Pick one and lets roll with it.
Agree entirely. I think HDR10+ ultimately will be the solution. Sometimes committees just have to be told "NO".

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post #444 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:11 PM
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so whats the down n dirty? did someone steal all their ip?
Nope. They're still up to their lips in ip.
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post #445 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:14 PM
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Quite a bummer. They are/were a class act.

The bottom line though is streaming is just too convenient. I bought my first 4K OLED sets a couple of years ago and picked up the Panasonic 4K player at the time then the Oppo. THIS TIME I was going to be back on board with buying all kinds of 4K discs as I had stopped buying Blu-Ray long ago. I wanted the best sound and picture for my new 4K set-ups. Discs always win.

Well that lasted a few months. I picked up maybe 25 discs and then I have stopped again. I was going to go pick up IT (superb sound and vision) after streaming but even that didn't happen.

My 4K Oppo has once again turned into a Blu-Ray concert machine and not much else. I stream Tidal and play discs thru my NAD Masters units. My CDs have been burned to the NAD Masters and I mostly stream thru Vudu and when I do buy a movie I keep it in the cloud via Vudu.

The movie has to be exceptional for me to buy a disc and even then it is becoming a long shot. Also, if it's a movie I have really been waiting for with baited breath the streaming version is out weeks before Blu-Ray or 4K. If it's something I really have been waiting for I will pay for the stream and not wait additional weeks for the disc. This was another death nail disc vs stream. If it's a movie I want to see i want to see it as soon as possible and not wait additional weeks for disc. Discs cannot win any way you want to look at it.

Oppo was a class act from product to packaging. I'm glad I have the 205 but it may well be the last spinner I ever buy.

My spinner is a Blu-Ray concert disc spinner only these days.

This is crappy for those with different needs.

Edit: I should add that I use the analogue outs for my separate headphone amp and this was a plus. My NADs run into the Oppo for headphone listening. I do prefer my own headphone amp over the Oppo but the Oppo did offer a lot for an all in one box that's for sure. Some complain too much fluff not needed but I disagree IF YOU NEED IT connection wise.

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Last edited by Mr.SoftDome; 04-03-2018 at 03:57 PM.
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post #446 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:22 PM
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I still buy discs. Movies come and go from streaming services like Amazon Prime Video, the Roku Channel, and Netflix. Also, think of the censorship concerns if a few big companies control all your access to media. If you collect movies, you want discs. Movies that get pulled from streaming services due to limited-time licensing deals, political pressure, behind-the-scenes legal disputes in Hollywood, etc. can't get pulled out of your disc collection.

If I stream a movie and like it, I then want the disc to put in my collection.

Streaming takes us back to how it was when you'd have to see a movie in theaters, or wait for it to be shown on TV. A step backwards IMHO.
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post #447 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin Dunn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dhereicome View Post
You mean $1000 blu-ray players aren’t a profitable business? Shocking.
High-end Blu-ray players are a niche product, but there are use cases for the Oppo UDP-205 that aren't covered by any other player I know of.
It has an upgraded analog section over the $549 lower-end model, the UDP-203.

The UDP-205 is also a USB DAC that can accept input from a computer. It becomes a high-end "sound card" for the computer that can play back PCM and DSD bitstreams. A comparable DAC is $800 on its own, so the UDP-205 is already a better value proposition than buying a UDP-203 + separate stereo DAC.

Both the 203 and 205 are universal players, for those who have SACD and DVD-A discs in their collections. The big Japanese companies like Sony and Panasonic gave up on those formats years ago. DVD-A discs may be backed up via computer, but not SACDs ... need a dedicated player for those as they are unreadable on a computer. And a dedicated SACD player of comparable quality would be about $800.

So ... $1,300 for the UDP-205 was not unreasonable given that in one box, it has the functionality of three different components costing $2,100 total.
Okay, I’m sure you’ll enjoy yours.
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post #448 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:32 PM
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I ordered a 203 in the middle of the night after reading about this.

I started with an 83, upgraded it to a 83SE, then sold it and got 95, didn't use the analog outs too much so traded for a 93 which I've been using for years. I added an external darbie so I skipped the 103D. I've had my eye on the 203 but have been using an Xbox one S for UHD. I do have a decent SACD and DVD-A collection since i adopted it when the formats began. I don't want those to die just yet. I'll probably throw my 93 region free on ebay in the coming weeks or may hang on to it....

I'm definitely a disc guy and not a streamer.
disc guy like it or not we will all eventually be streaming.

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post #449 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:37 PM
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disc guy like it or not we will all eventually be streaming.
When we all have 1Gbps Internet connections in our homes that don't get throttled by ISPs or cost a bloody fortune.
The loss of Net Neutrality makes that less likely.

I know the mainstream consumer doesn't care about ultimate audiovisual quality, but they won't stream 4K movies successfully on a 10Mbps up/down connection that de-prioritizes traffic from Netflix or YouTube.
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post #450 of 3294 Old 04-03-2018, 03:39 PM
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I said this on another forum but ultimately the problem with Oppo players is the cost to ACTUAL value ratio. Im sorry but probably like 99.88776% of the population couldnt care less about SACD or DVD audio support. Its a useless feature for most. So are analog audio outs or whatever other "boutique" features they threw into these players. Yes, they are built nicely. Fair enough - but once its in the gear rack, does that really matter that much? I dont think its worth $400 bucks more.

They support Dolby Vision which is nice but again..... HDR gets the job done and looks great so if I dont get Dolby Vision I dont feel like Im slumming it with HDR. Far from it. What else do they have thats a TANGIBLE improvement over any of the other UHD players out there. Picture Quality is basically identical between like every player out there and most reviews state this. A good UHD disc looks fabulous on a good display no matter the brand or model. So again - if the PQ is identical and the audio quality is too.... what am I "getting" for $400+ more bucks? 10lbs of chassis material? Ehhhh. OK. Great.

I have a "cheapo" Sammmy 8500 player and it plays every disc I throw at it and still gets firmware updates. It just works. If some elves swapped my player out with an Oppo overnight Im sure Id never be able to tell the next time I watched a UHD disc. I use my TV to stream and Id MUCH rather watch a film using physical media. But, the world we live in does stream a lot of stuff and many people count on their disc players to do that. The video purists hate the idea but the facts state that no streaming support was a huge downside to these players. Its a fail, no two ways about it.

It stinks that they are going away. I hate to see that. But Im nor that shocked, honestly for the reasons I mentioned and probably others.
Disagree muchly. Streaming from your Blu-ray player when you can grab 1 of a hundred boxes to do the same doesn't really add much to the value proposition. Lossless multichannel audio file (FLAC) support erases the need for discs, and the quality that provides even digitally shouldn't be sneezed at. I'm not joining anyone pissing on this grave. This is just the latest nail on the coffin of disc media. UHD is the end of the line.
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